Can we help out a local soccer club?

Started by StephenC, September 12, 2020, 07:56:56 PM

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thewobbler

Itchy the rules aren't always a bollocks.

They're there to protect us from ourselves. Get a fly by night committee in and if they aren't held accountable to a constitution, then things could get get out of hand very quickly.

Plenty of our rules change every year, including some seismic ones, to reflect changes in our culture.

But I can't see that particular one ever being reversed. Our ancestors worked too hard to provide us the facilities we have now, to make GAA the cornerstone of every rural community in Ireland, to flippantly hand then over to everyone.

StephenC

The committee certainly want to help out, and I'm happy that the membership will support. There are good relationships in the area and several kids play with both the soccer and GAA teams. But the nervousness is about insurance. Based on the responses here I don't see how we can go ahead and still be confident that we are protecting the people involved in the event of a serious accident.

We'll be meeting with them again later in the week and we can talk through ideas. Thanks for the help folks.  :(

Last Man

Could be wrong about the location but I have a memeory of there being a soccer pitch at the end of Borris Ileighs main pitch, that was close to 10 years ago mind.  It gave their lads something to do in the winter at that time.

thewobbler

Quote from: StephenC on September 14, 2020, 10:07:48 PM
The committee certainly want to help out, and I'm happy that the membership will support. There are good relationships in the area and several kids play with both the soccer and GAA teams. But the nervousness is about insurance. Based on the responses here I don't see how we can go ahead and still be confident that we are protecting the people involved in the event of a serious accident.

We'll be meeting with them again later in the week and we can talk through ideas. Thanks for the help folks.  :(

Honestly, if your committee are considering ignoring their own constitution, they shouldn't be in their roles.


Rossfan

Nothing like a hardline Nordie to set ye bucks straight. ::)
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

thewobbler

Quote from: Rossfan on September 15, 2020, 11:46:38 AM
Nothing like a hardline Nordie to set ye bucks straight. ::)

Nothing hard line about it.

If a committee isn't held accountable to its constitution, then things like this can happen:

- All soccer club members join GAA club.
- Soccer committee then stand for election at GAA AGM.
- A foothold is gained.
- Over the course of time (which might be days, months, years... or maybe never), this foothold is exploited regularly in soccer's favour.

I'm not telling you where this scenario ends up. But eventually the constitution is re-engaged, and there are clubs that have folded and split over lesser issues.

——

Soccer is not the enemy. Personally I love the game. But it has extraordinary advantages over Gaelic Games due to its simplicity, it's worldwide appeal and media presence, the professional route, and in certain ways, just how easy it is to change clubs.

Gaelic Games has its own advantages. For example, it's a more appealing game for more physical people. But its single greatest advantage is that its grounds, games and culture are the cornerstone of almost every rural community in Ireland. This is because we own the land and we look after it specifically to maintain that advantage. This is something that shouldn't be eroded because a few lads out west like soccer a lot. That's not a good enough excuse in my book.


mouview

Are you sure the club grounds are vested in the GAA. If not, then it has no jurisdiction over them. Then, insurance coverage may also be a factor.

Rossfan

Does Wobb want a ban on members of soccer clubs becoming members of the GAA??
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

StephenC

Quote from: thewobbler on September 15, 2020, 12:01:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 15, 2020, 11:46:38 AM
Nothing like a hardline Nordie to set ye bucks straight. ::)

Nothing hard line about it.

If a committee isn't held accountable to its constitution, then things like this can happen:

- All soccer club members join GAA club.
- Soccer committee then stand for election at GAA AGM.
- A foothold is gained.
- Over the course of time (which might be days, months, years... or maybe never), this foothold is exploited regularly in soccer's favour.

I'm not telling you where this scenario ends up. But eventually the constitution is re-engaged, and there are clubs that have folded and split over lesser issues.

——

Soccer is not the enemy. Personally I love the game. But it has extraordinary advantages over Gaelic Games due to its simplicity, it's worldwide appeal and media presence, the professional route, and in certain ways, just how easy it is to change clubs.

Gaelic Games has its own advantages. For example, it's a more appealing game for more physical people. But its single greatest advantage is that its grounds, games and culture are the cornerstone of almost every rural community in Ireland. This is because we own the land and we look after it specifically to maintain that advantage. This is something that shouldn't be eroded because a few lads out west like soccer a lot. That's not a good enough excuse in my book.

Not sure what type of committees and people you have been involved with, but it certainly differs to mine. The sort of multi-year, strategic takeover of a GAA club by a group of cunning soccer-types that you are describing is fun to think about, but not that I realistic I feel.

Anyway, right now it looks like we are stuck.

thewobbler

I think you're maybe missing my point.

It's a scenario much less likely to unfold as long as committees are bound to a constitution.

If committees though can just do what they like, it creates opportunities for Non-GAA interests to be satisfied.

—-

Ros there's no need to twist my words and make me sound anti-soccer. My own club is full of members who are also members of soccer clubs, including my children, and not so long ago me. I would encourage any Gaelic Footballer to play soccer, and vice versa.

If you don't want to see the dangers in GAA clubs breaking their constitutions, that's okay. Fire away. But don't make me out as something I'm not.



StephenC

Quote from: mouview on September 15, 2020, 12:27:48 PM
Are you sure the club grounds are vested in the GAA. If not, then it has no jurisdiction over them. Then, insurance coverage may also be a factor.

Yeah, it's a GAA ground.

Downtothewire

Quote from: thewobbler on September 15, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
I think you're maybe missing my point.

It's a scenario much less likely to unfold as long as committees are bound to a constitution.

If committees though can just do what they like, it creates opportunities for Non-GAA interests to be satisfied.

—-

Ros there's no need to twist my words and make me sound anti-soccer. My own club is full of members who are also members of soccer clubs, including my children, and not so long ago me. I would encourage any Gaelic Footballer to play soccer, Hurling and vice versa.

If you don't want to see the dangers in GAA clubs breaking their constitutions, that's okay. Fire away. But don't make me out as something I'm not.

Corrected that for you

Itchy

My GAA club used to take a very negative view of soccer, a few dinosaurs on both sides didnt help. Recently the same people who are coaches and volunteers in GAA club are the same people in the soccer club. Relations are good now. We work around each others for training, we understand  the load on some kids better that play both sports. Earlier in the year when the GAA banned all training on their grounds, the soccer club (who were in their off season) offered us use of their ground for a few weeks and we paid them a rate. We've never been asked by them for our grounds but if we did I feel we would work something as almost every player on their team is also a member of the GAA club.

I asked a question earlier, I suppose Wobbler you have taken a hard line so maybe you could give your thoughts on it. If a GAA training session ends with the lads playing a game of soccer for a bit of craic are they still insured and has the constitution of the GAA been broken? I recall many moons ago that exact thing used to happen in GAA centric Cavan and there was no soccer club within 20 miles of us.

thewobbler

Quote from: Itchy on September 15, 2020, 04:53:33 PM
My GAA club used to take a very negative view of soccer, a few dinosaurs on both sides didnt help. Recently the same people who are coaches and volunteers in GAA club are the same people in the soccer club. Relations are good now. We work around each others for training, we understand  the load on some kids better that play both sports. Earlier in the year when the GAA banned all training on their grounds, the soccer club (who were in their off season) offered us use of their ground for a few weeks and we paid them a rate. We've never been asked by them for our grounds but if we did I feel we would work something as almost every player on their team is also a member of the GAA club.

I asked a question earlier, I suppose Wobbler you have taken a hard line so maybe you could give your thoughts on it. If a GAA training session ends with the lads playing a game of soccer for a bit of craic are they still insured and has the constitution of the GAA been broken? I recall many moons ago that exact thing used to happen in GAA centric Cavan and there was no soccer club within 20 miles of us.


Of course they're insured. They're playing members of a GAA club, training for Gaelic Games.

That's why this isn't just about insurance Itchy, for your next question will be "well what if it was only the soccer club players who stayed behind?" quickly followed by "and what if there just happened to be no actual GAA training or if it was called off at the last minute?".

It's about the Association's rules and club constitution. You might find it acceptable to pay lip service to such things. But I guarantee you that even if the active members of your club have a healthy relationship with local soccer, that there's dozens of your members would be vehemently against pitch sharing, and hundreds who would be worried about it. So if your committee were to go on a solo run on this one, without the blessing of members and trustees, it's the kind of action that could cause a chasm.

And then do you know what would happen? Your trustees would be called in, your  club's constitution would be dug up, and soccer would be kindly told not to ask again.

This isn't rocket science. Constitutions largely exist to stop clubs eating themselves by accident.



Rossfan

Sure the GAA at top level broke its rules to allow 2 soccer teams to play a soccer match in Páirc Uí Chaoimh.
They just closed their eyes and called it a "Charity event".
There might be "dozens of members" objecting in 6 Co clubs but round here you might get 1 or 2.
Personally I cant abide soccer as it's 90 minutes of boredom but I can't see any problem letting them use a GAA club facility provided they pay (in advance) and cover insurance and doesn't interfere with Club activities.
Like they did when they were playing Internationals in Croke Park.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM