The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Kursk]

Assad isn't a US lackey therefore he has to go.
If the US and the rest hadn't armed the anti Assad (incl IS) we'd have no flood of refugees.
If assholes have to be got rid of in the middle East how about starting in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?
You know Saudi - where women have no rights, it's a Capital offence to hold a non Muslim religious service and all the rest.
But of course they're pro US assholes so that's grand so.

Exactly. It is these family values that I am talking about.

As for Assad. Its always the same modus operandi isn't it....."weapons of mass destruction, must remove..blah, blah". Thankfully Obama was too weak to act on his red line on the use of chemical weapons otherwise the place would be even more destabilized.

Hopefully order will now be restored by the Assad/Russia and the American backed so-called "Free Syrian Army" that started all this mess will be wiped out.

I wonder would it be possible to restore the Ba'athists to power in Iraq ? I think that is the most feasable option to restore stability to Iraq. 

[J70]

One thing you should keep in mind stew is that Russia and the American right have many values in common. Both have a visceral hatred of the kind of liberal bullshit that has taken over discourse in both the US and Europe. The US and Russia don't have to be enemies. I can easily envision a future where family values, the church and security are restored to their proper place in society. It will take some left field thinking on the part of both countries. The truth is that the rump of both countries have enough enemies without and within to form an alliance. The US must give up their hopeless idealism though. That view is not sustainable going forward.

Define "family values".

And what is the "proper" place of "the church "?

Do you have a family yourself and do you live in Europe ? the US ?

Yes and US.

Back to my questions ...

[johnneycool]

Assad isn't a US lackey therefore he has to go.
If the US and the rest hadn't armed the anti Assad (incl IS) we'd have no flood of refugees.
If assholes have to be got rid of in the middle East how about starting in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?
You know Saudi - where women have no rights, it's a Capital offence to hold a non Muslim religious service and all the rest.
But of course they're pro US assholes so that's grand so.

Exactly. It is these family values that I am talking about.

As for Assad. Its always the same modus operandi isn't it....."weapons of mass destruction, must remove..blah, blah". Thankfully Obama was too weak to act on his red line on the use of chemical weapons otherwise the place would be even more destabilized.

Hopefully order will now be restored by the Assad/Russia and the American backed so-called "Free Syrian Army" that started all this mess will be wiped out.

I wonder would it be possible to restore the Ba'athists to power in Iraq ? I think that is the most feasable option to restore stability to Iraq.

Just like the success in removing Gaddafi in Libya has proven to be.

[Kursk]

Assad isn't a US lackey therefore he has to go.
If the US and the rest hadn't armed the anti Assad (incl IS) we'd have no flood of refugees.
If assholes have to be got rid of in the middle East how about starting in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain?
You know Saudi - where women have no rights, it's a Capital offence to hold a non Muslim religious service and all the rest.
But of course they're pro US assholes so that's grand so.

Exactly. It is these family values that I am talking about.

As for Assad. Its always the same modus operandi isn't it....."weapons of mass destruction, must remove..blah, blah". Thankfully Obama was too weak to act on his red line on the use of chemical weapons otherwise the place would be even more destabilized.

Hopefully order will now be restored by the Assad/Russia and the American backed so-called "Free Syrian Army" that started all this mess will be wiped out.

I wonder would it be possible to restore the Ba'athists to power in Iraq ? I think that is the most feasable option to restore stability to Iraq.

Just like the success in removing Gaddafi in Libya has proven to be.

Sorry, but your reply makes no sense ? Did I pick you up wrong ?

I speculated whether restoring the previous political apparatus (in Iraq) which existed for decades could be restored in the name of stability. You seemed to equate this with removing a political apparatus (in Libya) that existed for decades ??

I am not saying that it IS possible but since the entire western world seem to be saying that it was a mistake to remove the Ba'ath regime then maybe restoring it would be a good thing. If Russia did succeed in shoring up the the (loosely) Ba'athist regime in Syria the platform would be in place to relaunch Ba'athism in Iraq.

[Kursk]

An interesting article here about the decline of Western democracy.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ernesto-gallo-giovanni-biava/western-democracy-decline-and

A précis of the decline is that people have stopped trusting the economy and the faith in markets. The glaring anomaly of monetary union without political union has become obvious. Ineffective, weak western leadership has led to people looking toward the more decisive leadership model of Russia and to wonder about the gap in society left by the abandonment or organized religion (especially in the face of the devout Islam).

They then propose solutions which, unfortunately, lean toward the usual , kumbaya nonsense however "no party leader has so far been able to grasp and articulate the sensibility of battered citizens" certainly rings a bell. However, they then appoint Pope Francis to this role  which is bollocks. At the precise time that a pope is needed to restore the churches reputation and reassert the confidence of the faithful he seems more interested in spouting populist, leftist statements. Stick to poping Francis, we have enough people telling us we need to "do more" for xyz.

They then propose more transnational politics and a more active UN which seems to me to be impractical and will just amplify the EU flaws to a worldwide scale.

I think we need a reset of western democracy to the Chinese model followed by a gradual, slow restoration of "democracy". The key point is to keep the bed wetters away from power so that they don't sell us all up the river again and always keep a close eye on them thereafter.

[Rossfan]

Chinese model of "democracy".....
FFS
Foxcommander has lost his title of Daftest poster on GAABoard 

[Kursk]

A little poetic license is sometimes needed to provoke 

I am trying to identify minds worthy of engagement. As the Americans might say, Is anyone willing to "go to bat" in defence of western democracy ?

You certainly don't seem to be of the right material. You belong more in Europes hipster army tackling the worlds despots via the like button on facebook.

[Kursk]

The Chinese are remarkable. The advances they have made in the last 20 years are incredible. The fact that they moved completely away from a set way of political and economic thinking to embrace an "enemy" mindset just empahsizes this change. Can you imagine the internal conflict this change must have caused in the minds of ordinary citizens yet they have managed it peacefully with minimal social disorder.

I think the modern western world would be incapable of such a shift.

[muppet]

The Chinese are remarkable. The advances they have made in the last 20 years are incredible. The fact that they moved completely away from a set way of political and economic thinking to embrace an "enemy" mindset just empahsizes this change. Can you imagine the internal conflict this change must have caused in the minds of ordinary citizens yet they have managed it peacefully with minimum social disorder.

I think the modern western world would be incapable of such a shift.

The Chinese abandoned communism, skipped enlightenment and jumped straight to the money God.

Just like the Russians.

Reminds me of the Oscar Wilde quote regarding America: "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."

I am impressed though that they chose not to pretend to give the token nod to religion in they way much of The West does.

[Kursk]

I would argue that they didn't skip enlightenment they simply passed through it long before the west, recognized its extremes,  and settled for stability over disorder. This is central to their thinking. Like mao said of the French revolution, it is too early to tell.

On the "US skipped civilization" theme. Is that not the problem ? The US is a transplanted colony that have "forgotten" everything that European/Asian society have passed through to get to this point. Therefore they just don't understand the pragmatism needed to negotiate the European/Asiatic mindset. Putin understands this mindset perfectly. He has the centuries of cultural nuance that we all, as Europeans, innately understand.

[muppet]

I would argue that they didn't skip enlightenment they simply passed through it long before the west, recognized its extremes,  and settled for stability over disorder. This is central to their thinking. Like mao said of the French revolution, it is too early to tell.

On the "US skipped civilization" theme. Is that not the problem ? The US is a transplanted colony that have "forgotten" everything that European/Asian society have passed through to get to this point. Therefore they just don't understand the pragmatism needed to negotiate the European/Asiatic mindset. Putin understands this mindset perfectly. He has the centuries of cultural nuance that we all, as Europeans, innately understand.

You are arguing that they went from enlightenment to communism and then to the money God?

If that is the case, who knows where they will go next.

[Kursk]

Westerners must give up on this idea of "universal human rights". The only rights due to citizens are the rights they earn through their service to the society.

[muppet]

Westerners must give up on this idea of "universal human rights". The only rights due to citizens are the rights they earn through their service to the society.

But who will decide and police these rights?

[stew]

Westerners must give up on this idea of "universal human rights". The only rights due to citizens are the rights they earn through their service to the society.

Very Orwellian that spake!

[Kursk]

I would argue that they didn't skip enlightenment they simply passed through it long before the west, recognized its extremes,  and settled for stability over disorder. This is central to their thinking. Like mao said of the French revolution, it is too early to tell.

On the "US skipped civilization" theme. Is that not the problem ? The US is a transplanted colony that have "forgotten" everything that European/Asian society have passed through to get to this point. Therefore they just don't understand the pragmatism needed to negotiate the European/Asiatic mindset. Putin understands this mindset perfectly. He has the centuries of cultural nuance that we all, as Europeans, innately understand.

You are arguing that they went from enlightenment to communism and then to the money God?

If that is the case, who knows where they will go next.

Yup. Communism was a misstep. It was a bad fit. Just because they like order does not mean they are not enterprising. In fact stability and order has seen an explosion of creative energy and commercial success.

Where they will go next ? I think they will dominate. They simply don't suffer from the same internal conflict "we" do. You may say that is a bad thing...I don't think so. If the goal is to prosper while maintaining with a strong, resilient cultural identity,  I think they have the right formula.