Messages

The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

So you think the Russians and Europeans have superior morals than the yanks?

Germany has stepped up tremendously whilst some Muslim states wanted nothing to do with these people.

Morality is dead when politics encompasses a situation like this, Americans have given more aid over the past hundred than any other nation, the Russians do little in comparison and Putin is a despicable  KGB war criminal.

I wouldn't say Russia has "superior" morals but I would ask you how strong are your morals if you are not prepared to defend them ? What does it actually mean to be "moral" ? Talk is cheap. For example, if Russia was allowed more influence in the Balkans in the mid 90's perhaps srebinicia could have been avoided. Instead Nato rattled their sabre and the serbs were forced to react.

The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

Europe has stepped up, which is more than some Muslim countries did, Russia was very loathe to help these people and are helping prop up an animal, their puppet!

Stew, I would agree with you but you are mixing up weak "humanitarian" gestures with actually doing something. If somebody bombs green bay is your first reaction to retreat to Minneseota and organize humanitarian aid or is your first reaction to confront the aggressors with whatever force you can muster?

We call all agree that Russia is lacking by European/American moral standards but I think we can also all agree that European/US moral standards are past their sell by date and must be copmpromized in the modern world ?

I'll give you an example why I think you are very misguided about attributing "Nazi" motives to my advocating for Russian power

Imagine there are a group of fanatics who are throwing a man off a building for being gay. Imagine there are another group of
pragmatists trying to kill said fanatics who have no particular love for said gay man but are prepared to step in and stop this atrocity
from happening (in the course of achieving their selfish objectives).

Imagine there are another group of people, lets call them "idealists" who organize a protest march 2000 miles away to condemn the atrocity that is about to take place but wont condone their own military forces to stop it.

who is more morally correct in this situation ?

http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/new-isis-islamic-state-video-but-who-is-better-than-god-in-judgment-establishing-a-limit-upon-the-people-homs-syria-gay-homosexual-man-executed-executed-uncensored-full-youtube-video/

You're way too sensible and pragmatic for this forum, my advice is leave now with your hopes for rational debate intact.

The problem is twofold. On the one hand everybody is constrained by western political correctness (i.e. can't challenge the  US/Zionist narrative) along with hand wringing European don't-want-to-offend attitudes . On the other hand people have sisters, brothers who are gay, friends that are minorities and they see these absolute scumbags (IS) killing everybody that does not fit into their narrative and they long for someone to step in and annihilate the bastards.

Russia steps into this void. That is why the Russia/China axis will eventually win. Military/Political certainty aligned with economic power is an irresistible combination. The US is finished. Brute force will win hearts and minds in the face of an existential threat.

I'll give you an example why I think you are very misguided about attributing "Nazi" motives to my advocating for Russian power

Imagine there are a group of fanatics who are throwing a man off a building for being gay. Imagine there are another group of
pragmatists trying to kill said fanatics who have no particular love for said gay man but are prepared to step in and stop this atrocity
from happening (in the course of achieving their selfish objectives).

Imagine there are another group of people, lets call them "idealists" who organize a protest march 2000 miles away to condemn the atrocity that is about to take place but wont condone their own military forces to stop it.

who is more morally correct in this situation ?

http://heavy.com/news/2015/08/new-isis-islamic-state-video-but-who-is-better-than-god-in-judgment-establishing-a-limit-upon-the-people-homs-syria-gay-homosexual-man-executed-executed-uncensored-full-youtube-video/
 

This "Kursk" seems a great bit of craic. Hang shoot flog blah blah.
He would have found a perfect home in Germany in the 1930s

On the contrary, I am sick of the usual narrative. I wish for peace for Sunni/Shia/Syrians/Palestinians etc and until somebody with a big stick
steps in and protects the rights of these people against the other major powers (e.g. US/Israeli imperialism) then nothing will be resolved in this region.

As for Europe, I make no apologies for wishing our secular, liberal societies continue to exist I simply acknowledge that we cannot impose our ideals on others. Is there something in particular that I have said that you disagree with ?

The human side to the escalation in Syria has been a massive influx of people crossing from Turkey into Greece,
especially the islands, with Lesbos the most popular.  Over the past week or 2 there has been a massive increase in
the number of people crossing, and last night was a pretty bad night. I came across this blog entry from someone who
was on the ground and describes what it was like on the shores as the coast guards rescued dozens from the sea

http://mariennapw.com/2015/10/29/entry-iii-the-sinking-of-the-nameless-recollections-of-a-volunteerjournalist/

Yes. It is tragic. What gets me is the way European Nations pay lip service but don't do anything ! This paragraph is a case in point

"And as long as the EU refuses to grant these refugees safe legal passage, the smugglers will continue to exploit them. Ultimately, it is our governments with the power, resources and responsibility to act, who I hold responsible for what happened last night; and what is happening in so many nights in so many places across Europe now."

ffs, children are dying. Step up Europe. The total population of Europe is about 0.8 billion (??). For the sake of argument lets assume a billion. The total number of refugees (in turkey) is only 4 million so that is only one 1 refugee for every 250 people. It is a tiny percentage.

The way I see it, Europe is like a moral repository and has a duty to accept these people while those with less morals (US, Israel, Assad, IS etc) fight it out.

Conor McGregor has been getting a bit of abuse over his wearing of the poppy.
This is his response:

I know where my allegiance lies and what I do for my country.
I don't need a stupid little flower with a 100 different meanings to tell me if I do or do not represent my country.
Check the facts of its original meaning.
ALL soldiers. ALL wars.
I have the blood of many nations on my gloves. Fought and beat on the world stage.
You have a pint in your hand and a Celtic jersey on in your local. f**k you and the Queen.

He is just a lackey for British imperialism and he worships the mighty dollar. why should anyone care what he thinks ?

I'll bet he would run a mile if confronted with a real life, no rules situation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Vg-US5JX0

Cool.

Russia decides to 'shock and awe' them.

That always works as planned and will definitely fix everything.

It is different with Russia. They have no ideological motives in the sense that they will simply do what is in Russian interest. This freedom of action combined with modern military technology will prevent them getting bogged down ala Afganistan or like the Americans in Iraq (who made the mistake of boots on the ground/win hearts and mind bullshit  ...idiots ).

They don't have the moral baggage that Europeans and Americans have or, rather, they don't feel the need to lie about moral motives to justify their actions. Once  this clarity is in place then everybody will know which side to take. The cold war was a period of uncertainty but, if we are honest, it was better than what we have now.

I think, eventually, Russian, Chinese, European interests will align along a system loosely based on oligarchical capitalism which is light on human rights but strong on security. People will eventually go along with this as it their best choice among a limited pick.

Russia is not a threat to the west. Indeed, Russia (and China) are probably the best hope of preserving western ideals but the west must accept that these ideals must ONLY apply within western borders. 

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2015/02/russia-force-good-world-150211181821795.html

Just to be clear, I think it is a tragedy for Syria and ordinary Syrians on the ground but something had to give.In the short term, there will be pain but  I think it will help bring more clarity to the situation. FSA will see that they cant win. IS will understand that there is now somebody with a very big stick on the scene and the Americans will see that the age of American hegemony/imperialism is at an end.

There is no real downside for Russia either. Chechnya should serve as an example for any jihadis that might have any ideas. 

Looks like there will be a lot more Refugees on the way if this keeps up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpxNA-uku4

On the plus side it will at least lend some clarity to the situation.

The weak,confused,  impotent American response has caused this thing to drag on and on and on.
Now everybody knows the rules. Its Assad/Russia v all other parties in Syria. Everybody knows the US and Europe wont lift a finger so
the Russians are free to do what the want and will not be bound by any silly western style hand wringing. Good. That is what is needed.

I expect to see FSA start negotiating pronto. IS will then have a choice. They can focus their energies back toward Iraq/kurds  or else try and take
on the Russians and get bombed back to the 9th century which is where they belong anyway.

I really, really hope they choose the latter.

Go Vlad !