Down Club Hurling & Football

[Down Follower]

Not sure about the pilot scheme for underage. It is good in principal with the aim being to reduce the drop out between minor and senior football.  I think something has to be tried for that and previous suggestions were to make the u21 grade more prominent.  This is a different way of doing it.
As Down Fanatic above said though there will be issues for university goers, whether they play freshers or not. Just getting home for training/games will be an issue.

[sdg]

Does this new league system mean that the u20/u21 championship is finished with?

[thewobbler]

Not sure about the pilot scheme for underage. It is good in principal with the aim being to reduce the drop out between minor and senior football.  I think something has to be tried for that and previous suggestions were to make the u21 grade more prominent.  This is a different way of doing it.
As Down Fanatic above said though there will be issues for university goers, whether they play freshers or not. Just getting home for training/games will be an issue.

I'm not sure what advantage can be gained by changing it by exactly a calendar year.

The odd thing about underage football has always been that it doesn't correlate with school years. Two players of equal ability, one born on 31 December, the other on 1 January have very different opportunities in their juvenile football careers. The player a day older has to work an awful lot harder to get recognised at county level, and then has to hit the ground running at senior football when still at school. The player a day younger has a guaranteed year of football right up through he leaves school; and that summer when he finally gains freedom from exams, parents etc, he'll still definitely be playing competitive football. 

So if this under-19 proposal is actually more like under-18 and a half, with the cut off date the same as the school year (1 July) then I'm all for it. If not, I really can't see what problems it's going to solve. As mentioned above, the inverse problems would begin, whereby the lad born on 31 December won't be pressurised to travel home from university during his freshman year for training and matches, but the lad born on 1 January will be.

[Down Follower]

Not sure about the pilot scheme for underage. It is good in principal with the aim being to reduce the drop out between minor and senior football.  I think something has to be tried for that and previous suggestions were to make the u21 grade more prominent.  This is a different way of doing it.
As Down Fanatic above said though there will be issues for university goers, whether they play freshers or not. Just getting home for training/games will be an issue.

I'm not sure what advantage can be gained by changing it by exactly a calendar year.

The odd thing about underage football has always been that it doesn't correlate with school years. Two players of equal ability, one born on 31 December, the other on 1 January have very different opportunities in their juvenile football careers. The player a day older has to work an awful lot harder to get recognised at county level, and then has to hit the ground running at senior football when still at school. The player a day younger has a guaranteed year of football right up through he leaves school; and that summer when he finally gains freedom from exams, parents etc, he'll still definitely be playing competitive football. 

So if this under-19 proposal is actually more like under-18 and a half, with the cut off date the same as the school year (1 July) then I'm all for it. If not, I really can't see what problems it's going to solve. As mentioned above, the inverse problems would begin, whereby the lad born on 31 December won't be pressurised to travel home from university during his freshman year for training and matches, but the lad born on 1 January will be.

The advantage is that you keep a batch of players continuing to play for the club for another year.  A year which traditionally sees a large drop off in player numbers as a lot of young fellas arent just ready for seniors but are too old for minors.  I know your seconds are geared for that but realistically reserve football just doesnt cut it.  Does it just push the drop off problem back another year - wont know that until we see what happens.

[DownFanatic]

Not sure about the pilot scheme for underage. It is good in principal with the aim being to reduce the drop out between minor and senior football.  I think something has to be tried for that and previous suggestions were to make the u21 grade more prominent.  This is a different way of doing it.
As Down Fanatic above said though there will be issues for university goers, whether they play freshers or not. Just getting home for training/games will be an issue.

I'm not sure what advantage can be gained by changing it by exactly a calendar year.

The odd thing about underage football has always been that it doesn't correlate with school years. Two players of equal ability, one born on 31 December, the other on 1 January have very different opportunities in their juvenile football careers. The player a day older has to work an awful lot harder to get recognised at county level, and then has to hit the ground running at senior football when still at school. The player a day younger has a guaranteed year of football right up through he leaves school; and that summer when he finally gains freedom from exams, parents etc, he'll still definitely be playing competitive football. 

So if this under-19 proposal is actually more like under-18 and a half, with the cut off date the same as the school year (1 July) then I'm all for it. If not, I really can't see what problems it's going to solve. As mentioned above, the inverse problems would begin, whereby the lad born on 31 December won't be pressurised to travel home from university during his freshman year for training and matches, but the lad born on 1 January will be.

The advantage is that you keep a batch of players continuing to play for the club for another year.  A year which traditionally sees a large drop off in player numbers as a lot of young fellas arent just ready for seniors but are too old for minors.  I know your seconds are geared for that but realistically reserve football just doesnt cut it.  Does it just push the drop off problem back another year - wont know that until we see what happens.

Take a typical U-19 in 2016. He may quite possibly have to mix and match and contend with the following schedule at different times of the year:

U-19 match and training (2 nights)
Reserve match (1 night)
Senior match and training (3 nights)

Then if he happens to be a handy enough player:

Potential Fresher activity (1/2 nights)
Potential inter county activity (2/3 nights)

There is a disparity between junior and senior clubs in terms of bringing players through from minors. I'm from a junior club and on average each year we have 5/6 minors. We generally get the majority of them through to senior because due to low numbers etc in small clubs there are more opportunities for getting a crack at senior football and the players themselves know this so that's why they stick around.
In an average senior club you might have 14/15 minors coming through but only a handful will progress to senior and stick at it as there are more numbers to compete with and more competition. The immediate provision of senior football just isn't there unless you are one of the more standout players.
In junior clubs too you will find that most minors are on the senior panel. This usually isn't the case with senior clubs.

[The Raven]

Not sure about the pilot scheme for underage. It is good in principal with the aim being to reduce the drop out between minor and senior football.  I think something has to be tried for that and previous suggestions were to make the u21 grade more prominent.  This is a different way of doing it.
As Down Fanatic above said though there will be issues for university goers, whether they play freshers or not. Just getting home for training/games will be an issue.

I'm not sure what advantage can be gained by changing it by exactly a calendar year.

The odd thing about underage football has always been that it doesn't correlate with school years. Two players of equal ability, one born on 31 December, the other on 1 January have very different opportunities in their juvenile football careers. The player a day older has to work an awful lot harder to get recognised at county level, and then has to hit the ground running at senior football when still at school. The player a day younger has a guaranteed year of football right up through he leaves school; and that summer when he finally gains freedom from exams, parents etc, he'll still definitely be playing competitive football. 

So if this under-19 proposal is actually more like under-18 and a half, with the cut off date the same as the school year (1 July) then I'm all for it. If not, I really can't see what problems it's going to solve. As mentioned above, the inverse problems would begin, whereby the lad born on 31 December won't be pressurised to travel home from university during his freshman year for training and matches, but the lad born on 1 January will be.

The advantage is that you keep a batch of players continuing to play for the club for another year.  A year which traditionally sees a large drop off in player numbers as a lot of young fellas arent just ready for seniors but are too old for minors.  I know your seconds are geared for that but realistically reserve football just doesnt cut it.  Does it just push the drop off problem back another year - wont know that until we see what happens.

Take a typical U-19 in 2016. He may quite possibly have to mix and match and contend with the following schedule at different times of the year:

U-19 match and training (2 nights)
Reserve match (1 night)
Senior match and training (3 nights)

Then if he happens to be a handy enough player:

Potential Fresher activity (1/2 nights)
Potential inter county activity (2/3 nights)

There is a disparity between junior and senior clubs in terms of bringing players through from minors. I'm from a junior club and on average each year we have 5/6 minors. We generally get the majority of them through to senior because due to low numbers etc in small clubs there are more opportunities for getting a crack at senior football and the players themselves know this so that's why they stick around.
In an average senior club you might have 14/15 minors coming through but only a handful will progress to senior and stick at it as there are more numbers to compete with and more competition. The immediate provision of senior football just isn't there unless you are one of the more standout players.
In junior clubs too you will find that most minors are on the senior panel. This usually isn't the case with senior clubs.

Don't forget the dual players who may play u19 and senior hurling. Not many nights left in the week

[T O Hare]

Next season, you will see really good 17 year olds playing under 17/19 and senior/reserve games every week.

[wobbller]

 Do I detect a hint of regret in Ben's column in the Democrat this week? Seems to be half apologising for his attack on Jim McCorry in the previous edition.

[johnneycool]

I think it could be good for the picking of a Minor panel the following year in
that the selectors can look clearly at these U17 games and know that generally anyone playing is eligible for Minor County the following season whereas in the current Format trying to pick out U17's in the Minor competitions of this year makes it difficult with U18's being over age for Minors the following season.

That's if you've the county minor, U21 management in place the previous year, which isn't always the case and even then what about lads who maybe weren't prominent in U17 the previous year, but are going well at U19, but still eligible for minor?

If there's an issue with drop out at minor, then maybe we're only moving that issue on a year or potentially bringing it forward a year.

I suppose we'll have it for three years and see what happens.

I'd still like to see the Primary school ages revert back to P3, P5 and P7 rather than the calendar years as we've found its better in keeping young lads involved as their school friends are going along, especially ones with July to Dec birthdays. I think we got four or five youngsters back hurling because of this.

Still no answer from anyone on how underage club competitions will be decided? Minor club championships, Feile and I even think theres an U16 club football one run somewhere in Tyrone IIRC.

We also play teams in North Antrim and Belfast blitzes, so we'll have very different teams lining out there than we will have in Down!!

[Down Follower]

Next season, you will see really good 17 year olds playing under 17/19 and senior/reserve games every week.

No you wont. If you are under 17, you cant play adult football. Also county minors are not allowed to play adult football until the county are out from now on too.  Measures are being put in place to ease the burden (or restrict the opportunity as I would have seen it)!!

[snoopdog]

Hoganstand reporting the below
Jim McCorry's future as Down football manager is set to be decided at a meeting on Monday night.

The Irish News is reporting that clubs have been summoned to attend the meeting in Newcastle which will also discuss the U21 and minor management set-ups. Depending on the turnout, a vote could be taken on McCorry's position.

[johnneycool]

Next season, you will see really good 17 year olds playing under 17/19 and senior/reserve games every week.

No you wont. If you are under 17, you cant play adult football. Also county minors are not allowed to play adult football until the county are out from now on too.  Measures are being put in place to ease the burden (or restrict the opportunity as I would have seen it)!!

I presume that U17's can't play adult is a new rule brought in with the age groups??

That minor one won't work with the hurlers as IMO its beneficial for these lads to be playing adult club hurling due to the serious lack of club minor fixtures.

[Down Follower]

Next season, you will see really good 17 year olds playing under 17/19 and senior/reserve games every week.

No you wont. If you are under 17, you cant play adult football. Also county minors are not allowed to play adult football until the county are out from now on too.  Measures are being put in place to ease the burden (or restrict the opportunity as I would have seen it)!!

I presume that U17's can't play adult is a new rule brought in with the age groups??

No it is in at present.  You can only play adult football if you are in your second year at minor level, therefore, under 17's cannot play.  The county minor is a new one coming into play next year.

That minor one won't work with the hurlers as IMO its beneficial for these lads to be playing adult club hurling due to the serious lack of club minor fixtures.

[rosskarr]

Currently U17's can play Senior

[The Raven]

Next season, you will see really good 17 year olds playing under 17/19 and senior/reserve games every week.

No you wont. If you are under 17, you cant play adult football. Also county minors are not allowed to play adult football until the county are out from now on too.  Measures are being put in place to ease the burden (or restrict the opportunity as I would have seen it)!!
[/
I presume that U17's can't play adult is a new rule brought in with the age groups??

That minor one won't work with the hurlers as IMO its beneficial for these lads to be playing adult club hurling due to the serious lack of club minor fixtures.

If lads in their last year of county minor football or hurling panels cannot play for their club senior or reserve teams the pressure will be on to leave the panel to get games. In hurling especially teams may struggle to field if they have several players on the county minor panel as u17 cannot play. The burnout myth is going the come back and bite us