Brexit.

Started by T Fearon, November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

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Taylor

Quote from: johnnycool on September 17, 2020, 10:03:05 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 17, 2020, 09:39:57 AM
A UI wont even come into discussions unless Scotland go first.

Once Scotland go then it becomes much more of a reality.

However, that reality will mean we go back to some form of the troubles - that may not be admitted by a lot of people on both sides but it is a reality.

There's always that possibility but Loyalist paramilitary organisational structures in a normal society would have been decimated throughout the troubles if the RUC and the various branches of British intelligence weren't giving them cover, intelligence, supplies, support as well as turning a blind eye.

That's not to say they aren't capable, they are. But their impact will depend on the agreement and any form of a UI will need to offer political unionism a meaningful voice to ensure the vast majority of decent unionists don't feel alienated in their own country.

I cannot see how it will be acceptable in any shape or form to a majority of Unionists/Loyalists

sid waddell

Quote from: Taylor on September 17, 2020, 08:38:09 AM
The only thing stopping them is that the US wont agree any sort of trade deal.

For this reason alone I cannot see them breaking international law
I think people are putting too much store on this

A lot will be decided by the outcome of the US election

If the election has any semblance of legitimacy about it Biden will win - but I expect Trump will steal it - and if that happens, America will be in a whole new world of shit

Time after time in the US, people have said "he can't do that, can he?"

And yet he does

The US has a barely functioning democracy as it is - and if Trump wins, expect that to go out the window

Trump cares less than nothing for Ireland but is deeply allied to the crackpot Brexiteers

The world should pray Biden wins and takes office and Ireland especially should

Taylor

Quote from: sid waddell on September 17, 2020, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 17, 2020, 08:38:09 AM
The only thing stopping them is that the US wont agree any sort of trade deal.

For this reason alone I cannot see them breaking international law
I think people are putting too much store on this

A lot will be decided by the outcome of the US election

If the election has any semblance of legitimacy about it Biden will win - but I expect Trump will steal it - and if that happens, America will be in a whole new world of shit

Time after time in the US, people have said "he can't do that, can he?"

And yet he does

The US has a barely functioning democracy as it is - and if Trump wins, expect that to go out the window

Trump cares less than nothing for Ireland but is deeply allied to the crackpot Brexiteers

The world should pray Biden wins and takes office and Ireland especially should

I see Biden has reinforced Pelosi's message about no trade deal.

Interesting to see if he is genuine or just going after the Irish American voters

seafoid

Quote from: Taylor on September 17, 2020, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 17, 2020, 10:03:05 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 17, 2020, 09:39:57 AM
A UI wont even come into discussions unless Scotland go first.

Once Scotland go then it becomes much more of a reality.

However, that reality will mean we go back to some form of the troubles - that may not be admitted by a lot of people on both sides but it is a reality.

There's always that possibility but Loyalist paramilitary organisational structures in a normal society would have been decimated throughout the troubles if the RUC and the various branches of British intelligence weren't giving them cover, intelligence, supplies, support as well as turning a blind eye.

That's not to say they aren't capable, they are. But their impact will depend on the agreement and any form of a UI will need to offer political unionism a meaningful voice to ensure the vast majority of decent unionists don't feel alienated in their own country.

I cannot see how it will be acceptable in any shape or form to a majority of Unionists/Loyalists
The Conservative and Unionist Party is now an English Nationalist Party.

They don't care about the Union or the Somme.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 09:23:31 AM
Firstly we need Scotland to retake its place among the nations of the Earth.
Brexit and the Cummings/Johnson regime have  brought that forward by around 25 years.

Scotland isn't very flúirseach
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 09:23:31 AM
Firstly we need Scotland to retake its place among the nations of the Earth.
Brexit and the Cummings/Johnson regime have  brought that forward by around 25 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Wz8ig2y9Y
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Rossfan

Quote from: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 09:23:31 AM
Firstly we need Scotland to retake its place among the nations of the Earth.
Brexit and the Cummings/Johnson regime have  brought that forward by around 25 years.

Scotland isn't very flúirseach

Terrible hardship having loads of oil I suppose.
Look at the state poor oul Norway is in.....
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

seafoid

Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 11:05:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 09:23:31 AM
Firstly we need Scotland to retake its place among the nations of the Earth.
Brexit and the Cummings/Johnson regime have  brought that forward by around 25 years.

Scotland isn't very flúirseach

Terrible hardship having loads of oil I suppose.
Look at the state poor oul Norway is in.....
I think most of it is gone
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

armaghniac

Quote from: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 11:05:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 09:23:31 AM
Firstly we need Scotland to retake its place among the nations of the Earth.
Brexit and the Cummings/Johnson regime have  brought that forward by around 25 years.

Scotland isn't very flúirseach

Terrible hardship having loads of oil I suppose.
Look at the state poor oul Norway is in.....
I think most of it is gone

Yes, but Norway has saved the money and invested in things like electric cars. What was saved for Scotland from their oil?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

Quote from: armaghniac on September 17, 2020, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 11:05:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 09:23:31 AM
Firstly we need Scotland to retake its place among the nations of the Earth.
Brexit and the Cummings/Johnson regime have  brought that forward by around 25 years.

Scotland isn't very flúirseach

Terrible hardship having loads of oil I suppose.
Look at the state poor oul Norway is in.....
I think most of it is gone

Yes, but Norway has saved the money and invested in things like electric cars. What was saved for Scotland from their oil?
London spent it.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

balladmaker

Quote from: imtommygunn on September 17, 2020, 09:07:16 AM
It's still a long way off but this last 12-24 months has definitely made me think it's possible in this lifetime whereas before that I wouldn't have thought it possible even in my child's lifetime.

Prior to Brexit, seeing a UI in my lifetime was a hope.  Now I think it is a reality, at least a new Ireland of sorts with some sort of northern assembly in place to appease our Unionist friends.  The sooner we completely detach from Britain the better.  SoS may call a border poll easier than we think, they really don't want the north and that is abundantly clear.  I think this internal market debate and the threat to break international law is Boris grandstanding before he shafts the north (in unionist eyes) once again ... at least he can say 'well, we tried everything to keep NI the same as the rest of the UK but it just wasn't possible'

sid waddell

Quote from: balladmaker on September 17, 2020, 01:33:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 17, 2020, 09:07:16 AM
It's still a long way off but this last 12-24 months has definitely made me think it's possible in this lifetime whereas before that I wouldn't have thought it possible even in my child's lifetime.

Prior to Brexit, seeing a UI in my lifetime was a hope.  Now I think it is a reality, at least a new Ireland of sorts with some sort of northern assembly in place to appease our Unionist friends.  The sooner we completely detach from Britain the better.  SoS may call a border poll easier than we think, they really don't want the north and that is abundantly clear.  I think this internal market debate and the threat to break international law is Boris grandstanding before he shafts the north (in unionist eyes) once again ... at least he can say 'well, we tried everything to keep NI the same as the rest of the UK but it just wasn't possible'
The swivel eyed Brexit loons don't care one jot about Northern Ireland but they do care immensely about it being part of the UK

As is the case with Scotland and Wales

The next few decades could well be of a type where Scotland, Wales and NI assume a similar position to India and African colonies in the dying days of the British Empire - eventual separation will become all but inevitable but the English will attempt to crack the whip on the Celtic "piccaninnies" to make them "come to their senses" - and fail

Cake and eat it mark II

armaghniac

Quote from: sid waddell on September 17, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
The swivel eyed Brexit loons don't care one jot about Northern Ireland but they do care immensely about it being part of the UK

As is the case with Scotland and Wales


More like, the swivel eyed Brexit loons don't care one jot about Northern Ireland but they do care about it being part of the UK because it is an example to Scotland and Wales
I think they care hugely about Scotland and NI is only seen in relation to that issue, as much for itself.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

sid waddell

Quote from: armaghniac on September 17, 2020, 03:55:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 17, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
The swivel eyed Brexit loons don't care one jot about Northern Ireland but they do care immensely about it being part of the UK

As is the case with Scotland and Wales


More like, the swivel eyed Brexit loons don't care one jot about Northern Ireland but they do care about it being part of the UK because it is an example to Scotland and Wales
I think they care hugely about Scotland and NI is only seen in relation to that issue, as much for itself.

There's a deep seated colonial unionism built into Brexitism - the Brexiteers see the DUP a bit like Putin sees Lukashenko in Belarus or how the French used to see the French settlers in Algeria - they simultaneously completely look down on them but also see them as very important to maintaining the fever dream of the imperial Brexiteer sphere of influence

That colonial unionism may not be massively apparent currently - though it's already showing itself through Johnson's public poo-pooing of another independence referendum in Scotland - but it will become apparent after no deal happens - the Celtic colonies will be the only thing the Little Englander Brexiteers have to hold on to




seafoid

Quote from: sid waddell on September 17, 2020, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 17, 2020, 03:55:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 17, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
The swivel eyed Brexit loons don't care one jot about Northern Ireland but they do care immensely about it being part of the UK

As is the case with Scotland and Wales


More like, the swivel eyed Brexit loons don't care one jot about Northern Ireland but they do care about it being part of the UK because it is an example to Scotland and Wales
I think they care hugely about Scotland and NI is only seen in relation to that issue, as much for itself.

There's a deep seated colonial unionism built into Brexitism - the Brexiteers see the DUP a bit like Putin sees Lukashenko in Belarus or how the French used to see the French settlers in Algeria - they simultaneously completely look down on them but also see them as very important to maintaining the fever dream of the imperial Brexiteer sphere of influence

That colonial unionism may not be massively apparent currently - though it's already showing itself through Johnson's public poo-pooing of another independence referendum in Scotland - but it will become apparent after no deal happens - the Celtic colonies will be the only thing the Little Englander Brexiteers have to hold on to

I think Brexit is English nationalism. Because Scotland and NI rejected it. They don't buy the Daily Mail view of the world.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU