A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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armaghniac

A poll reveals 51 per cent back a vote over the North's place in the UK in the next 5 years.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/1017253/northern-ireland-politics-border-poll/

Now I don't think this will pass first time out, but it is absolutely essential that they are not allowed hold one, Brexit style, where there is no clarity on what the issues are. You'd need a neutral body e.g. OECD to measure the actual state of the NI economy and taxes etc, you'd need the Irish government to say how they say it and the British to say both what would happen if yes but also if no, in terms of long term plans. if it is thought necessary to hold one then it should be necessary to clarify these things.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

Quote from: armaghniac on May 19, 2017, 02:59:41 PM
A poll reveals 51 per cent back a vote over the North's place in the UK in the next 5 years.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/1017253/northern-ireland-politics-border-poll/

Now I don't think this will pass first time out, but it is absolutely essential that they are not allowed hold one, Brexit style, where there is no clarity on what the issues are. You'd need a neutral body e.g. OECD to measure the actual state of the NI economy and taxes etc, you'd need the Irish government to say how they say it and the British to say both what would happen if yes but also if no, in terms of long term plans. if it is thought necessary to hold one then it should be necessary to clarify these things.
Good post.
There would also have to be an investigation or series of investigations  into the unionist education problem, why productivity is so poor, what ending the border might mean for economic activity, what the British have neglected etc
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

armaghniac

The evolution of the 6 county population

If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

BennyCake

Quote from: AQMP on June 01, 2017, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2017, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 19, 2017, 02:59:41 PM
A poll reveals 51 per cent back a vote over the North's place in the UK in the next 5 years.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/1017253/northern-ireland-politics-border-poll/

Now I don't think this will pass first time out, but it is absolutely essential that they are not allowed hold one, Brexit style, where there is no clarity on what the issues are. You'd need a neutral body e.g. OECD to measure the actual state of the NI economy and taxes etc, you'd need the Irish government to say how they say it and the British to say both what would happen if yes but also if no, in terms of long term plans. if it is thought necessary to hold one then it should be necessary to clarify these things.
Good post.
There would also have to be an investigation or series of investigations  into the unionist education problem, why productivity is so poor, what ending the border might mean for economic activity, what the British have neglected etc

Agreed, quite clearly being part of the UK has stunted the economic development of the North.

As long as Unionists can fly their fleg and Britain hang on to their piece of Ireland, that's all either party will ever care about. Everything else is an irrelevance.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: BennyCake on June 01, 2017, 04:01:16 PM
Quote from: AQMP on June 01, 2017, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2017, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 19, 2017, 02:59:41 PM
A poll reveals 51 per cent back a vote over the North's place in the UK in the next 5 years.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/1017253/northern-ireland-politics-border-poll/

Now I don't think this will pass first time out, but it is absolutely essential that they are not allowed hold one, Brexit style, where there is no clarity on what the issues are. You'd need a neutral body e.g. OECD to measure the actual state of the NI economy and taxes etc, you'd need the Irish government to say how they say it and the British to say both what would happen if yes but also if no, in terms of long term plans. if it is thought necessary to hold one then it should be necessary to clarify these things.
Good post.
There would also have to be an investigation or series of investigations  into the unionist education problem, why productivity is so poor, what ending the border might mean for economic activity, what the British have neglected etc

Agreed, quite clearly being part of the UK has stunted the economic development of the North.

As long as Unionists can fly their fleg and Britain hang on to their piece of Ireland, that's all either party will ever care about. Everything else is an irrelevance.
I think he Brits can't wait to get out. One of Bertie's ministers once told me that with the naval base on Lough Foyle no longer needed to control the North Atlantic, they have no strategic reason to hang about.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Rossfan

Once they'd be happy Ireland wouldn't be a threat to their Western flank they'd be delighted to be out of here.
Of course if a majority of Scots would ever do the decent thing we could speed up the whole process.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

AhNowRef

#1161
Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 03:44:58 PM
The evolution of the 6 county population



Thats excellent ... whens that from exactly ? .. i..e what date are these figures from & are they from a census or what?

dec

Quote from: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 03:44:58 PM
The evolution of the 6 county population



Thats excellent ... whens that from exactly ? .. i..e what date are these figures from & are they from a census or what?

At this link it says 2014

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=241162.0

armaghniac

I imagine this is based on the 2011 census, which would imply that things had already moved along a bit.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

JPGJOHNNYG

This is a far better representation of demographic shift again using the 2011 census. Saw it a while back for each county and someone on slugger posted this image for the whole of Northern Ireland. The other big milestone that has already happened (end of last year) is that the number of people from a Catholic community background is now greater than those from the Protestant community background.


AhNowRef

Quote from: dec on June 01, 2017, 05:19:00 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 03:44:58 PM
The evolution of the 6 county population



Thats excellent ... whens that from exactly ? .. i..e what date are these figures from & are they from a census or what?

At this link it says 2014

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=241162.0

Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 06:18:19 PM
I imagine this is based on the 2011 census, which would imply that things had already moved along a bit.

Yeah I guess it must be from 2011 ... Do the DUP not look at this sorta stuff ... why the feck are they STILL so intransigent, I mean what do they think is going to happen here ... Any sensible group would try and make friends but I guess they just cant help themselves .. ffs ::)

It shouldn't really be such a hardship to "share" the bloody place should it, but I guess when youve had it your own way for so long, its hard to give that up .. whats the next step for them .. I wonder what they're thinking ?

AhNowRef

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 01, 2017, 06:37:10 PM
This is a far better representation of demographic shift again using the 2011 census. Saw it a while back for each county and someone on slugger posted this image for the whole of Northern Ireland. The other big milestone that has already happened (end of last year) is that the number of people from a Catholic community background is now greater than those from the Protestant community background.



Ouch !!!

JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 06:47:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 01, 2017, 05:19:00 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 03:44:58 PM
The evolution of the 6 county population



Thats excellent ... whens that from exactly ? .. i..e what date are these figures from & are they from a census or what?

At this link it says 2014

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=241162.0

Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 06:18:19 PM
I imagine this is based on the 2011 census, which would imply that things had already moved along a bit.

Yeah I guess it must be from 2011 ... Do the DUP not look at this sorta stuff ... why the feck are they STILL so intransigent, I mean what do they think is going to happen here ... Any sensible group would try and make friends but I guess they just cant help themselves .. ffs ::)

It shouldn't really be such a hardship to "share" the bloody place should it, but I guess when youve had it your own way for so long, its hard to give that up .. whats the next step for them .. I wonder what they're thinking ?

The DUP will bury their head in the sand and ignore what is blatantly coming. The other picture I posted from slugger got a reply from a guy who claims to be a liberal unionist labour supporter living in England with a background in statistics and quite honestly it was staright out of the DUP handbook of denial. Basically all those non-religion and others from the census are lapsed Protestants and Unionists - unbelievable horseshit. The Catholic growth is all due to immigrants who couldnt give a stuff about Irish nationalism no mention about the equally high number of Protestant born outside the UK etc etc etc basically in complete denial

Avondhu star

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 01, 2017, 07:01:33 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 06:47:13 PM
Quote from: dec on June 01, 2017, 05:19:00 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 03:44:58 PM
The evolution of the 6 county population



Thats excellent ... whens that from exactly ? .. i..e what date are these figures from & are they from a census or what?

At this link it says 2014

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=241162.0

Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 06:18:19 PM
I imagine this is based on the 2011 census, which would imply that things had already moved along a bit.

Yeah I guess it must be from 2011 ... Do the DUP not look at this sorta stuff ... why the feck are they STILL so intransigent, I mean what do they think is going to happen here ... Any sensible group would try and make friends but I guess they just cant help themselves .. ffs ::)

It shouldn't really be such a hardship to "share" the bloody place should it, but I guess when youve had it your own way for so long, its hard to give that up .. whats the next step for them .. I wonder what they're thinking ?

The DUP will bury their head in the sand and ignore what is blatantly coming. The other picture I posted from slugger got a reply from a guy who claims to be a liberal unionist labour supporter living in England with a background in statistics and quite honestly it was staright out of the DUP handbook of denial. Basically all those non-religion and others from the census are lapsed Protestants and Unionists - unbelievable horseshit. The Catholic growth is all due to immigrants who couldnt give a stuff about Irish nationalism no mention about the equally high number of Protestant born outside the UK etc etc etc basically in complete denial
The dup will bury their head in the sand as distinct from the Provos who bury the whole body
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you

armaghniac

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 01, 2017, 07:01:33 PM
The DUP will bury their head in the sand and ignore what is blatantly coming. The other picture I posted from slugger got a reply from a guy who claims to be a liberal unionist labour supporter living in England with a background in statistics and quite honestly it was staright out of the DUP handbook of denial. Basically all those non-religion and others from the census are lapsed Protestants and Unionists - unbelievable horseshit. The Catholic growth is all due to immigrants who couldn't give a stuff about Irish nationalism no mention about the equally high number of Protestant born outside the UK etc etc etc basically in complete denial

I'd say there is a fair sprinkling of Poles etc who will now take out British citizenship (post Brexit), but might well not be big fans of the the DUP notwithstanding their use of their new British passports at polling stations. The DUP Brexit idiocy both give these people a reason to end up on the voting register, and to use their vote to get out of the UK back into the EU!!

The Unionists never never learn. That giant of the political scene, Robin Swann, has characterised calls for special post-Brexit status for North as a 'back door bid to unite Ireland', when of course any rational political thinker would see it as the exact opposite, a measure of flexibility to prevent the whole thing pulling apart.

Unfortunately thoough, nationalism is represented largely by SF who are entirely incapable of putting forward a credible economic model for the way forward, so these small minds will not be called out on their nonsense.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B