Papal Visit to Ireland

[smelmoth]

Some amount of hypocrites in on here! Saying you have so many misgivings for the Catholic church I hope you don't bother to waste time looking for burials in church graveyards or final blessing in when you time comes!!

I wasn't intending to and I'm not a hypocrite

Only a matter time before non religious ceremonies to mark a death or celebrate a life get some traction. Some form of hygienic incineration will do for me. A few on here seem to think my incineration will take care of itself

[smelmoth]

It's no surprise that the Pope's visit was underwhelming (at least in media coverage).  I would imagine for those who attended and who wanted to attend for all the right reasons, that it was a great occasion.
Lot's of leaders visit other countries. And those countries foot the bill. The media also cover things with the right amount of respect and reverance based on the occasion. Windsor weddings.....?

I didn't expect any more than the comments on here.  The purification of the Church is well underway.

What was great about it? Did he do something great or say something great? Or was it his mere presence that was great in which case have we not stumbled into idolatry?

If the church needs purification then surely you must admit it's moral authority is gone?

What is evidence that purification is underway? I set out the entry level purification standards in a post before the visit. He didn't come close to meeting those standards. I saw no actions that indicated that purification was either underway or on the horizon

[gallsman]

It's no surprise that the Pope's visit was underwhelming (at least in media coverage).  I would imagine for those who attended and who wanted to attend for all the right reasons, that it was a great occasion.
Lot's of leaders visit other countries. And those countries foot the bill. The media also cover things with the right amount of respect and reverance based on the occasion. Windsor weddings.....?

I didn't expect any more than the comments on here.  The purification of the Church is well underway.

How was it in any way underwhelming? It was front page news of every paper and on TV non stop ffs.

[Cunny Funt]

It's no surprise that the Pope's visit was underwhelming (at least in media coverage). I would imagine for those who attended and who wanted to attend for all the right reasons, that it was a great occasion.
Lot's of leaders visit other countries. And those countries foot the bill. The media also cover things with the right amount of respect and reverance based on the occasion. Windsor weddings.....?

I didn't expect any more than the comments on here.  The purification of the Church is well underway.

Have talked to plenty that attended the Knock event and according to them it was far from a great occasion, most of them upset at how poorly the event was organized.

[Baile Brigín 2]

It's no surprise that the Pope's visit was underwhelming (at least in media coverage).  I would imagine for those who attended and who wanted to attend for all the right reasons, that it was a great occasion.
Lot's of leaders visit other countries. And those countries foot the bill. The media also cover things with the right amount of respect and reverance based on the occasion. Windsor weddings.....?

I didn't expect any more than the comments on here.  The purification of the Church is well underway.

He wasnt invited here and it wasnt a state visit. It was an internal church event. Massively inappropriate to invite himself and tap us up for the cost, doubly so as his company owes us hundreds of millions.

[Syferus]

Literally this weekend an archbishop and former Vatican diplomat accused Pope Francis of being complicit in not acting on a sex abuse claim five years ago. That's 2013, folks. Not 1979, not 1997.

"The purification of the church is well underway". It is my arse.

[The Iceman]

Literally this weekend an archbishop and former Vatican diplomat accused Pope Francis of being complicit in not acting on a sex abuse claim five years ago. That's 2013, folks. Not 1979, not 1997.

"The purification of the church is well underway". It is my arse.

You just made my point Syferus. I believe there will be and there is currently a purging of the hierarchy and possibly right to the top. The Vatican Diplomat is calling for the resignation of Pope Francis. The homosexual networks were exposed in Pennsylvania, the pedophiles continue to be exposed and those that protect them. If we can get them out of the Church then surely that is a good thing. As people leave and the corrupt clergy are outed/removed then surely the purification has begun?

[outinfront]

This guy is also mega conservative and severely homophobic with a big agenda against the Pope and moves to liberalise the church. So I wouldn't be taking his word for anything either tbh!
This is not a defence either, just saying.

[easytiger95]

Iceman, I think you should clear up your language. You may think homosexuality is sinful, and it is certainly against the doctrine of the Church you belong to - but it should not be equated - in any way - with paedophilia.

If that is not your intent, fair enough.

What happened in Pennsylvania was an absolute orgy of depravity, rape and vicious assault - carried out by paedophiles. Some of the things described in the report speak to an unspeakable cruelty in the perpetrators. If you read about the same happening in a wartime concentration camp, you could - just about - rationalise its existence. For this to be still happening, in a modern, secular democracy is mind bending.

The church will not be renewed or purified until the culture of secrecy is removed. That culture will never be gone, no matter what procedures re child protection are put in, until the Church faces up to the reality of human sexuality. Perhaps when we have married priests, mature and comfortable in discussing and accepting human sexuality, including LGBTQ, then the Church will no longer be a breeding ground for these twisted, immature monsters.

[sid waddell]

Perhaps when we have married priests, mature and comfortable in discussing and accepting human sexuality, including LGBTQ, then the Church will no longer be a breeding ground for these twisted, immature monsters.

The Roman Catholic Church considers homosexuality unnatural, though it quite obviously isn't.

How can it square that with its promotion of the denial of human sexuality, which is quite obviously unnatural?

[The Iceman]

Iceman, I think you should clear up your language. You may think homosexuality is sinful, and it is certainly against the doctrine of the Church you belong to - but it should not be equated - in any way - with paedophilia.

If that is not your intent, fair enough.

What happened in Pennsylvania was an absolute orgy of depravity, rape and vicious assault - carried out by paedophiles. Some of the things described in the report speak to an unspeakable cruelty in the perpetrators. If you read about the same happening in a wartime concentration camp, you could - just about - rationalise its existence. For this to be still happening, in a modern, secular democracy is mind bending.

The church will not be renewed or purified until the culture of secrecy is removed. That culture will never be gone, no matter what procedures re child protection are put in, until the Church faces up to the reality of human sexuality. Perhaps when we have married priests, mature and comfortable in discussing and accepting human sexuality, including LGBTQ, then the Church will no longer be a breeding ground for these twisted, immature monsters.

Pedophilia was a much smaller part of the abuse in PA than homosexual abuse. The majority of the victims were not little children. They were late teens and young adults. Young men raped in seminary, talk of "pink parties" with older priests, bishops and cardinals in open homosexual hook ups. Priests warning seminarians to lock their doors at night. The evidence would suggest that a homosexual ring exists in the church hierarchy and this ring covers up and allows abuse to happen. That's what the PA scandal points too.  In Harrisburg, PA they purposely paraded a majority female group of victims but this was not characteristic at all of the majority.  Given the current climate the media is distancing itself from labeling anything homosexual.
"while some of the victims were girls, the vast majority of victims were males ranging from prepubescent to young seminarians."
"The study also said it was inaccurate to refer to abusers as "pedophile priests," given that less than 5 percent of alleged abusive priests displayed behavior consistent with pedophilia, and the majority of victims examined in the report were pubescent or postpubescent minors."

There are letters like this being written to the faithful all over North America by clergy trying to stand up to the current, broken and corrupt hierarchy:
http://www.madisoncatholicherald.org/bishopsletters/7730-letter-scandal.html

[easytiger95]

Can you tell me where the sentences in quotation marks came from? If they are directly from the report, could you cite the pages or a link?

[The Iceman]

Can you tell me where the sentences in quotation marks came from? If they are directly from the report, could you cite the pages or a link?

They were an example of some things being said by Bishops. I took them from Bishop Morlino's letter to his diocese (Madison, Wisconsin). In the second quote he is referring to a broader study on abuse by Catholic Priests from 2011 that would support his claims about a homosexual hierarchy PDF here: http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/upload/The-Causes-and-Context-of-Sexual-Abuse-of-Minors-by-Catholic-Priests-in-the-United-States-1950-2010.pdf
Sorry I didn't include earlier I write how I speak and don't provide handouts all the time

[easytiger95]

So they don't actually relate specifically to the Pennsylvania report?

That is either spectacularly careless or spectacularly dishonest.

The Bishop's first "quote" says that victims were in the main male - to obviously advance an anti homosexual agenda - before he contradicts himself by saying that they ranged from prepubescent to young seminarians. In other words, children, teenagers and young men. So the vast majority of victims were under the age of consent and the others looked young.

And his second quote was in relation to a 2011 study.

The church is too busy demonising homosexuals to actually go after paedophiles.

Very, very dishonest Iceman. Very disappointing on your part.

[gallsman]

Given the current climate the media is distancing itself from labeling anything homosexual.

Yeah, the big media is the issue here