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Bingo TV3's first contract was for nine games up to the quarter finals (plus any replays that accrued) and then for their second contract they got the same plus the two minor finals.

Not quite Bingo - the Sky package is a little bigger than TV3's used to be as there are more games being covered this year.

Well Lazer, you might be lucky - if Sky do get it, they may not have any Ulster championship games. The large majority of games will be an RTE, so hopefully you'll get to see the games you want. Also, not sure where BBC NI fit in - they could still have their quota of games as well.

Huge contradictions in the positions here -

"I want free to air coverage available North and South."

"Let them simulcast with sky by all means but remain free to air."

Here is something that may surprise a lot of people - covering a match costs a lot of money. To cover a match well costs even more. I'm assuming in point 1 you want the coverage to be good? As good as other sports seem to get from other channels? Costs a lot of money, and, quite frankly, neither RTE or TV3 have the resources to come anywhere near a Sky/BBC/ITV production. But because we live in a territory where the majority of people were able to see BBC coverage of sports and then latterly subscribed to Sky, we feel we can slag away at the coverage of GAA. It is a false comparison. Lads, RTE didn't cover provincial championships live until 1995! The Premier League was four years old at that stage.

So then in point 2, we say let Sky cover away - but not exclusively. I'm sorry, the deal as it stands may be right, may be wrong depending on what opinion you hold, but the idea that Sky would pay to coevr GAA matches on a subscription channel while RTE covers them on FTA is absurd - there is no logic to that statment. It actually smacks of such arrogance "Yeah we'll take their dirty money, but we won't give them any kind of consideration in return."

Who do we think we are lads? Sky are the biggest sports commercial broadcaster. We entered the commercial rights market ten years ago with Setanta - the days of turning up our noses at the realities of pay per view should be gone. As Bernard Shaw said to the Duchess, we know what you are, now we're just deciding the price.

We can decide to keep our games free to air and give them to RTE to cover each year - fine, but please let's not bitch and moan about the coverage they provide when it is a monopoly.

Or we can give Championship games to Sky as well, get some money for it but have them on a subscription basis - but please let's not wail about our loss of innocence, when we started Pay Per View games with a different company 10 years ago.

Zulu, a lot of the team in 2011 were part of the failed Pillar years - and most of them were there in 2009 disguised as startled earwigs. Gilroy changed his own approach big style in 2010. I remember that year Berno being interviewed about the difference and he said gilroy was a lot clearer about what he wanted and everyone knew their role - the implication was that Gilroy was no longer putting up with a lot of things that were a holdover from the previous management (not that I'm slagging Caffrey, he was unfortunate in a lot of ways).

I think for players like Berno, Alan Brogan, Denis Bastick, Barry Cahill, Brian Cullen, Ger Brennan, Diarmuid Connolly, who had all played before he came in, he made a huge difference. Even if you look at players that he essentially replaced, you couldn't really argue that Mick Fitz was a better corner back than Paul Griffin - but under the new system he prospered. Ditto for Whelo and Shane Ryan - we thought they were huge losses at the time, but we managed without them.

Pyschology is a huge part of management - I think Gilroy, with the help of Mickey Whelan, was able to improve the performance of a number of players and that made a big difference in our breakthrough.

i always think back to 95 and the heartbreak that team went through - probably as bad a run as any county team ever had - 91, 92, 93, 94 - it nearly killed them but they got there in the end. It took real mental strength to do it. That is not something Dublin have a monopoly on - and if you think back to 2006 against Mayo it was the one thing we were accused of lacking. It can come good for Mayo ( I just hope it doesn't happen against the Dubs! ;D0

Posted by: moysider
« on: March 30, 2014, 10:22:02 PM » Insert Quote
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 30, 2014, 09:37:53 PM
I hope you're right joemamas, but we're constantly hearing the same stuff from supporters, hoping they'll learn and it'll right itself later in the year. I have to say that I agree with Indiana. Horan has got us to where no other manager has, but since last September, I don't know if he's the man to lead us to the promised land.

But I'm not looking forward to the day that he goes either. Anyway, I did say Dublin's forwards looked scary...and when Bernard Brogan comes back, God help the rest of the country.

Don t forget last year Kerry had a chance to take the lead with a minute to go in the semi. We blew the final.
Dublin have got so much going for them though that it is a bad time for us to be challenging for an AI but I suppose there ll always be a Dublin or a Kerry waiting to give us a slap in a final.

The Croke Park factor is huge for them. They play all big games there and it brings out the best in them in big championship games. Croke Park seems to be an issue for us now in finals.
Dublin should win Leinster again without much fuss and can arrive fresh and peaking at the right time. They re in a great position to win again but they can be beaten by 2/3 teams.

Moysider, interested to read your comments. I know we've won two All Ireland in 3 years, but people seem to forget that for 16 years Croke Park was a huge burden to us, a place where we were so often exposed. Along with players, development etc (all important of course) one of the biggest shifts for Dublin was in  their mental attitude - a majority of the 2011 panel had been taking semi final and quarter final beatings (some even Leinster semi final beatings!!) for the entire noughties. Gilroy and Gavin changed the mental attitude of the squad and you can see the results.

Point being, you can bemoan the quality of player upfront for Mayo all you want - BUT - mental attitudes can be changed and adjusted. The bernard Brogan of 2010/2011/2013 is a different creature from the Berno of 2007. You guys need to work with what you have - you are 90% there - the few inches between the ears is the last step to take.

Horan very upfront, said they were doing crazy things - seemed a little bit shell shocked. As for Gavin, said exactly the same things as he always says, except he also said he had no problem with the red card as Cluxton had clearly tripped him. I'd say there's a few lads out in Donnycarney tonight poring over their dictionaries as to whether it was a trip or a kick. Straight red suggests the umpires told the ref that it was a kick.

Good performance from the umpires last night - they get enough slagging when things go wrong, should acknowledge them when they do things right.

Well that is it Muppet - I knew there was nothing specific in the rule about preventing scoring chances, I'm just wondering has this filtered through to refs through osmosis, or whether they got instructions from Pat McEnaney? It just seemed like that to me. I would say of the black card and the other two Dublin incidents, the Mayo one was definitely the most blatant - replays were very clear on that.

BTW, just thought I should mention that I thought the Dubs did magnificently to put Cluxton's stupidity aside and keep plugging away. Even after the second Mayo goal, I knew that if we could just go up the field again, we looked certain to create goal chances.

I thought McManamon's goal was brilliant (doubly so because we can use it as proof that he meant it against Kerry), Costello looks like the real deal (saw him playing Cumann na mbunscoil about 8 years ago, playing midfield and outclassing everyone on the pitch) Al Brogan gave a masterclass for thirty minutes, then did an impression of classic mid noughties Al Brogan by trying to shoot from everywhere, then comes up with the pass of the year to put O'Gara in, and as for the man himself? Well, he is easy to slag (I've done it myself, sad to say) but he gets crucial goals and he actually is the one player to put a smile on my face when I see him coming on - just old school physicality, taking on the nearest man, bullying whoever he can - he's this generation's Vinny Murphy (Vin had more football in him, but O'Gara is a tougher specimen altogether). He reminds of that great description of Colin Corkery - "a JCB coming around a corner at 100 miles an hour".

I wouldn't start him come Champo but what an option to have on the bench. Very happy with last night's work against a team who will be at the top table again this year.

While I wouldn't agree that either of those incidents were nailed on black cards, would I be right in saying that both of them happened outside the final third? I thought myself that was a consideration the ref seemed to be applying. Just speaking from memory now, so I'm not certain.

If I was Aidan O'Shea i'd be ringing Ciaran Whelan and asking him what to do about criticism like the above - Jaysis lads the Dubs were destroyed at midfied last night, and we were five points down I think when AOS left the park - it was taking all of McAuley's energy to keep an eye on him and when he left suddenly MDM started running at Mayo.

Don't make the same mistake we made with Whelo, expecting him to do it all, all the time and all alone. At his best o'Shea is awesome, and when he is mediocre he is still a head above most on the pitch.

Seanie, while I think it might be valid to question the long term strategy Croke Park may have, I don't think Sky particularly have one, bar the fact that as a territory we are becoming more important to them.

They care about showing something Sky customers in Ireland want to see - whether it is amateur or professional means nothing to them except, as the juice mentioned a couple of pages ago, amateurism as romantic narrative to draw in new viewers in the Uk. Given the Guardian's unprecedented editorial on the hurling final, they may be picking up on a new desire in the UK viewing public for sport untainted by premier league excess.

The first changes towards "professionalism" will be Sky demanding team sheets a guaranteed hour before throw in, making sure games start on time, making sure TV facilities at grounds are improved etc. In other words the coverage will get better - I saw them do it with regard to the Heineken Cup.

With regard to what the GAA are looking to do long term, I just hope they do have a long term strategy - if they are doing it fpr for short-sighted reasons like clearing debt etc, then we could find ourselves in the quagmire you describe.

But if they honestly see a way to guarantee the amateur ethos, whilst maintaining themselves as viable commercial proposition then I'd love to hear it, and having heard it, support them along the way.

I just think the founders of the GAA in 1884 would have been as astounded/angry/confused with the GAA of 1984 as much as of the GAA of 2014. The only constant is change.

We are told that rte will also be showing the games that sky have so they will still be free to view. My worry is that sky will block out the signal to freeview rte customers just like they do with the champions league on Wednesday nights. This would mean a significant portion of the north wouldn't get to see big games without subscribing.

Lenny i can't see how RTE would be allowed to show Sky matches.  From what I have heard, Sky have 14 matches exclusively to themselves, and then also have the right to simulcast with RTE the semifinals and finals - so apart from those they'll never be on air at the same time. Why would Sky pay money for non-exclusive matches? They won;t have to block anything as RTE won't be allowed put those games on Saorview - it was the same with the TV3 contract last time.

I'm wondering though where BBC will fit in to the new equation?

Depends on the games they get, but if they pick up a Leinster/Munster football final, where you could be guaranteed a 35k plus crowd for Cork v Kerry and 50k plus for Dublin v Meath, you can be guaranteed they will go big on it. They also may have the rights to simulcast the semis and finals with RTE - 80k in Croke Park at the end of August? They will give it the full gun alright.

The demographics may be against them, but if it ends up filler it won't be through lack of effort on a production level. Basically what I'm saying is the GAA may not change Sky, but Sky will change the GAA (for the better, I hope!)