So what do ye think of the black card rule now?

[yellowcard]

What chance have the referee's if we can't definitively say which offences were black card offences and which weren't. Go to any match around the country now and you can often hear different supporters guessing whether it is going to be a yellow or a black card before the ref whips the card out of his pocket. It's like playing Russian roulette at times and the happy medium is to revisit the sin bin. The main reason it's abolition isn't being pushed forward in the media is because Brolly was intstrumental in getting it brought in and he won't accept that he was wrong and other pundits sat beside him are afraid to speak against it because of this reason. I would agree with Jim Gavin's post match comments in that the concept itself is fine, but the punishment for the player is often too excessive relative to the crime committed.

I think the sin bin is a better option.

In relation to your point about not being able to say definitively whether it's a black card or not; I'd say we can call it just as much as we can with a red card offence.

Lee Keegan got a red a few years ago for a petulant kick in the semi-final. I think it was rescinded on a technicality but there was uproar that a player should miss a semi-final for such a little kick. Are little kicks and open handed slaps to the face red cards or not? Is distinguishing between them any different than doing so on black card issues?

Like I said, the black card is the new controversial rule in town and every chance possible to run it out of town is jumped on.

Fair point in that sometimes there are grey areas between yellow/red card offences. However not near as often as yellow/black card offences which can have several within a single match.

[Itchy]

No rule change will work until the inconsistencies of refs is dealt with

[Esmarelda]

You might both have a point but the referees need to step up here and call them right. There was a linesman and two umpires relatively close to Small's trip on Saturday and a black should have been issued. We can't have this excuse of refs taking the easy way out when it comes to deciding on a rule.

[sligoman2]

Although I do like what the black card has done to remove cynical fouling I do agree that the ability or willingness to implement is dodgy at best.  I would support the sin bin as a replacement for the black card but would not recommend getting fed of it without a form of replacement.  Only problem is we will be having the same debate about whether x or y deserved a sinbinnning or not.

[Jinxy]

What chance have the referee's if we can't definitively say which offences were black card offences and which weren't. Go to any match around the country now and you can often hear different supporters guessing whether it is going to be a yellow or a black card before the ref whips the card out of his pocket. It's like playing Russian roulette at times and the happy medium is to revisit the sin bin. The main reason it's abolition isn't being pushed forward in the media is because Brolly was intstrumental in getting it brought in and he won't accept that he was wrong and other pundits sat beside him are afraid to speak against it because of this reason. I would agree with Jim Gavin's post match comments in that the concept itself is fine, but the punishment for the player is often too excessive relative to the crime committed.

The main issue with the sin bin is that it is very hard to implement at club or underage level when there is only one official

Ten minutes is ten minutes.
Get each club to volunteer someone, same as we do for linesmen etc. and give them a stopwatch and a folding chair.

[Rossfan]

If someone is "binned" with 5 minutes playing time left do they carry 5 minutes to the next game?
Will the TomTomtommy rule apply - can't sin bin anyone before the 10th minute or if their team hasn't been in a big game for ages?
Will referees still make up what's a bin offence rather than read the rule book?
Will Micky Harte ridicule it?

[muppet]

I am a big critic of the black card, but it is important to note that it did some good in dealing with the blocking of runners that was blighting the game.

Maybe if we scrap all the other offences and simply leave the black card as the punishment for that?

[del_carroll]

I liked the 50m penalty for cynical fouls mentioned earlier on newstalk by Michael quirke.....anywhere on the pitch would see the ball being moved 50m toward goal,often to a scorable position....Sin bin should apply for yellow card offences.
I've heard this is taken from aussie rules,but I admit I've never seen it there.

For a clear run through on goal the black card could be maintained....the concept of the professional foul works pretty well in soccer,I would say...i can't recall many contentious ones.

So rather than reinventing the wheel,we could take what has worked elsewhere.

Either way,Congress rules or not, we cannot sit through another season of this inconsistency...leaving aside the gross unfairness on many of the players

[BennyHarp]

I am a big critic of the black card, but it is important to note that it did some good in dealing with the blocking of runners that was blighting the game.

Maybe if we scrap all the other offences and simply leave the black card as the punishment for that?

Is blocking a guys run on your own 21m line (sometimes by accident - often it's hard to tell) enough to justify a player leaving the field of play in a fast moving, contact sport where these collisions do happen? Does the punishment fit the crime when players who carry out clothesline neck high tackles or wrestle on the ground for 5 mins get away with a yellow and stay on the pitch?

If.....and this is a big if..... the yellow was dished out a bit more frequently, then we wouldn't need the black card at all.  It would be significantly easier for the ref to manage. Jon Small would have received a yellow early on and probably have been red card (second yellow) later - deservedly so too. Keegan would have been yellow carded and stayed on the pitch - deservedly so. But the incidents of controversy for a ref would be easier to manage as it's a clear decision, yellow or red? and therefore would hopefully lead to more consistency. At the minute it a complete lottery.

I would however suggest a red card for a 'professional foul' type offence a la Cavanagh v Monaghan, where a clear goal / point scoring opportunity has been prevented.

[Esmarelda]

I am a big critic of the black card, but it is important to note that it did some good in dealing with the blocking of runners that was blighting the game.

Maybe if we scrap all the other offences and simply leave the black card as the punishment for that?

Is blocking a guys run on your own 21m line (sometimes by accident - often it's hard to tell) enough to justify a player leaving the field of play in a fast moving, contact sport where these collisions do happen? Does the punishment fit the crime when players who carry out clothesline neck high tackles or wrestle on the ground for 5 mins get away with a yellow and stay on the pitch?

If.....and this is a big if..... the yellow was dished out a bit more frequently, then we wouldn't need the black card at all.  It would be significantly easier for the ref to manage. Jon Small would have received a yellow early on and probably have been red card (second yellow) later - deservedly so too. Keegan would have been yellow carded and stayed on the pitch - deservedly so. But the incidents of controversy for a ref would be easier to manage as it's a clear decision, yellow or red? and therefore would hopefully lead to more consistency. At the minute it a complete lottery.

I would however suggest a red card for a 'professional foul' type offence a la Cavanagh v Monaghan, where a clear goal / point scoring opportunity has been prevented.

Benny, the original problem was that the drag down was being committed systematically by players that weren't already on a yellow card.

[Rossfan]

Is the main problem bad referees, inconsistent referees, refs using the rulebook as a guideline and implementing their own version, or referees scared of implementing the rules?
How many black cards issued for aggressive verbal abuse of officials?
How much better and cleaner would the game be if the 4 step rule was rigidly enforced?

Anything to be said for taking a rule from the Hurley stuff limiting the amount of times a player can play the ball to himself?

The more the ball is free in play the less need for tackling/pulling/dragging and referee's interpretations.

[Dinny Breen]

What chance have the referee's if we can't definitively say which offences were black card offences and which weren't. Go to any match around the country now and you can often hear different supporters guessing whether it is going to be a yellow or a black card before the ref whips the card out of his pocket. It's like playing Russian roulette at times and the happy medium is to revisit the sin bin. The main reason it's abolition isn't being pushed forward in the media is because Brolly was intstrumental in getting it brought in and he won't accept that he was wrong and other pundits sat beside him are afraid to speak against it because of this reason. I would agree with Jim Gavin's post match comments in that the concept itself is fine, but the punishment for the player is often too excessive relative to the crime committed.

The main issue with the sin bin is that it is very hard to implement at club or underage level when there is only one official

Why so? It has long been in existence in ladies football with good success.

It's also at every level of rugby from u13 - Pro. Never any problems. That's a smokescreen.

[seafoid]

Is the main problem bad referees, inconsistent referees, refs using the rulebook as a guideline and implementing their own version, or referees scared of implementing the rules?
How many black cards issued for aggressive verbal abuse of officials?
How much better and cleaner would the game be if the 4 step rule was rigidly enforced?

Anything to be said for taking a rule from the Hurley stuff limiting the amount of times a player can play the ball to himself?

The more the ball is free in play the less need for tackling/pulling/dragging and referee's interpretations.

The main problem is cultural.
the GAA is not interested in coherent change.

[Jinxy]

Is the main problem bad referees, inconsistent referees, refs using the rulebook as a guideline and implementing their own version, or referees scared of implementing the rules?
How many black cards issued for aggressive verbal abuse of officials?
How much better and cleaner would the game be if the 4 step rule was rigidly enforced?

Anything to be said for taking a rule from the Hurley stuff limiting the amount of times a player can play the ball to himself?

The more the ball is free in play the less need for tackling/pulling/dragging and referee's interpretations.

Then you'd just have two lads running up the field playing pass the parcel.

[Hardy]

Is the main problem bad referees, inconsistent referees, refs using the rulebook as a guideline and implementing their own version, or referees scared of implementing the rules?
How many black cards issued for aggressive verbal abuse of officials?
How much better and cleaner would the game be if the 4 step rule was rigidly enforced?

Anything to be said for taking a rule from the Hurley stuff limiting the amount of times a player can play the ball to himself?

The more the ball is free in play the less need for tackling/pulling/dragging and referee's interpretations.

Then you'd just have two lads running up the field playing pass the parcel.

That would be an improvement on ten lads standing around in the middle of the field playing pass the parcel.