Meath vs Antrim - Christy Ring Final

[Sea The Stars]

Did you read the article I posted? It successfully, and correctly, overruled 2 calls in the Galway-Dublin Leinster hurling final. Then it made a cockup in the Limerick Minor Game.

So the facility exists to overrule incorrect calls, whether asked for or not, and that facility has been used at least 3 times that I am aware of.

My point is that there is no 'need' to harangue refs or umpires to 'go to hawkeye'. It will happen automatically whether the ref calls it or not.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/limerick-demand-minor-replay-after-hawkeye-scoring-blunder-29511874.html

The Irish Independent understands that Limerick County Board sought clarification particularly on whether the match referee or the Hawk-Eye supervisor called for the score to be reviewed and the answer strengthened their belief that they have a good case for a replay.

That above paragraph suggests to me there is some kind of loophole to be exploited depending on who makes the decision to go to Hawk-Eye and I'm wondering if the GAA have made a conscious decision to avoid using the facility since the Limerick game? Has there been any more recent examples of Hawk-Eye over-ruling the umpires (Galway/Dublin I think was prior to the Limerick incident). If there is, then fair enough,  no further argument from me.

I've a feeling this one is going all the way to the DRA via CAC and CHC, etc. Limerick went the whole way with it unsuccessfully. Maybe Meath will have more joy.

[No wides]

Now I have it. Remember the furore over Hawkeye being configured for football and tracking a sliotar? There was an incorrect decision made because of it in a Limerick game?

Well there was an article at the time in the Examiner (2013) and it specifically mentions the incidents I am thinking of...

Of course, Hawk-Eye is only in the first of a two-year trial period while it has already proven its usefulness such as correctly overruling two umpiring decisions in the Leinster SHC final, calling a wide against Galway in the first half and then a second-half point for Dublin.

Did the ref go to hawk eye to over rule the umpires, I am saying if the ref doesn't ask for hawk eye surely no one is going to contact him and say that last point was null and void.

[AZOffaly]

Now I have it. Remember the furore over Hawkeye being configured for football and tracking a sliotar? There was an incorrect decision made because of it in a Limerick game?

Well there was an article at the time in the Examiner (2013) and it specifically mentions the incidents I am thinking of...

Of course, Hawk-Eye is only in the first of a two-year trial period while it has already proven its usefulness such as correctly overruling two umpiring decisions in the Leinster SHC final, calling a wide against Galway in the first half and then a second-half point for Dublin.

Did the ref go to hawk eye to over rule the umpires, I am saying if the ref doesn't ask for hawk eye surely no one is going to contact him and say that last point was null and void.

This is not from as good a source, but is from "Thurles Information". Given that the Minor (or indeed Senior) football semi finals are played after the hurling semi finals, I would guess this happened after the hurling c**k up.

The Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) intend to extend their new Hawk-Eye Technology to Semple Stadium in the not too distant future.

Despite the major error which incorrectly adjudged Barry Nash's point as having gone wide in Limerick's All-Ireland MHC semi-final defeat to Galway last month, Mr Páraic Duffy Director General of the Association, has wholeheartedly backed this new technology and believes it will serve the GAA well into the future.

Mr Duffy forecasts that it will be introduced to Semple Stadium here in Thurles by possibly 2014, because Thurles is predominantly a hurling venue.

Hawk-Eye's value was very obvious in the recent All-Ireland minor SFC semi-final, when it correctly overruled an umpire's decision that a shot had gone wide.

[AZOffaly]

Now I have it. Remember the furore over Hawkeye being configured for football and tracking a sliotar? There was an incorrect decision made because of it in a Limerick game?

Well there was an article at the time in the Examiner (2013) and it specifically mentions the incidents I am thinking of...

Of course, Hawk-Eye is only in the first of a two-year trial period while it has already proven its usefulness such as correctly overruling two umpiring decisions in the Leinster SHC final, calling a wide against Galway in the first half and then a second-half point for Dublin.

Did the ref go to hawk eye to over rule the umpires, I am saying if the ref doesn't ask for hawk eye surely no one is going to contact him and say that last point was null and void.

No, the ref didn't. The hawkeye box (Dicky Murphy was on duty in Thurles a couple of weeks ago) buzzed him down on the communication feed. Basically they say to the ref 'Barry, we need to look at that last point, Hawkeye is flagging it as a wide'. The ref blows the whistle, and makes the box signal, and the usual rigamarole with the graphic happens. I know I have seen this, and I think the John Fogarty article is referring to the incident(s) I remember, and that is how it transpired. It is a proactive call to the ref.

[johnneycool]

On the referee's scoring, Antrim and Meath drew.

At the end of the game?

I'm beginning to doubt that as it doesn't make any sense.

[clootfromthe21]

On the referee's scoring, Antrim and Meath drew.

At the end of the game?

I'm beginning to doubt that as it doesn't make any sense.

Well, there are two aspects to that:

1.   What did the referee actually "award"; and

2.   How was his recording of what he awarded during the course of the game?

The answer to the first question is he awarded Antrim 1-20 and Meath 2-17. He accepts that this is what he awarded. His report (as I understand it) is that is what he awarded.

The answer to the second question is unknown. Did he fail to record a score that he awarded? Did he record it "on the wrong side" of the ledger? Did he keep a running total or was it just a series of ticks for each score? Did he then presume that the score as set out on the scoreboard matched his ticks until he went back to have another look?

Nobody but the referee or someone who has access to his note book knows that.

[Lecale2]

I wonder did the ref change his card to reflect the score board assuming that the Croke Park score board would be correct and he must have forgotten to record a point?

[Applesisapples]

The score as recorded by the Ref is final, if he tallied incorrectly and corrected the mistake in his report then that is the official score. he can not disallow a score during play and then award it afterwards. No ref in his right mind would alter his score card after the event particularly in this scenario.

[Tony Baloney]

I just had a twitter exchange with John Fogarty, who wrote that article, and he confirmed that it is the case that *all* scores are reviewed, regardless of the signal from the umpire/ref, and if they spot an error, they immediately buzz the ref to correct it.

The only question is 'Was Hawkeye Operational on Saturday?.'

If it was, Meath's question is irrelevant. If it wasn't then Meath might well be right, but at least it would answer why not refer it to Hawkeye.

I was at CP for the Antrim match and the Armagh one before it and I was sure Hawkeye was operational but I am starting to doubt myself. I know I have seen it somewhere over the weekend so it can only have been the Waterford v Clare match - was there any Hawkeye calls during it?

[theskull1]

The score as recorded by the Ref is final, if he tallied incorrectly and corrected the mistake in his report then that is the official score. he can not disallow a score during play and then award it afterwards. No ref in his right mind would alter his score card after the event particularly in this scenario.

Well in my mind ... no ref in his right mind would not alter a genuine score accounting error and anyone who'd suggest otherwise is not in his right mind. Basically he wants his score card to line up with the actual score. And if he's convinced of a boo boo on his part upon reviewing the cast iron evidence/being told by other officials he trusts, then that's exactly what he should do.

I'm confused....on Saturday, what score was disallowed and is being asserted that it was awarded afterwards?

[AZOffaly]

Apparently there was a score for Antrim which was incorrectly awarded to Meath on the scoreboard. Then when they 'corrected' it by giving it to Antrim, they never removed it from Meath.

[Tony Baloney]

Apparently there was a score for Antrim which was incorrectly awarded to Meath on the scoreboard. Then when they 'corrected' it by giving it to Antrim, they never removed it from Meath.

My 11 year old son even said during the match that he thought the score was wrong as the scoreboard was all over the shop. A fella behind us shouted "go home scoreboard operator, you're drunk".  . An embarrassing state of affairs. Having said that a replay serves the interests of no one. Antrim want into Leinster and Meath want to keep the cup. The replay is a dead rubber and if Meath turn up I'd say the will be beaten by double figures.

[theskull1]

Apparently there was a score for Antrim which was incorrectly awarded to Meath on the scoreboard. Then when they 'corrected' it by giving it to Antrim, they never removed it from Meath.

Yes AZ I know that... its the inferred semantics of 'he can not disallow a score' which I'm confused about. I'm not aware of the referee "allowing" a score and then "disallowing" it.

I'm aware of the score which he may/or may not have made an error recording and may/or may not have retrospectively rectified given the cast iron evidence. Could someone tell me the score he "allowed" and then may have retrospectively "disallowed"?

[AZOffaly]

Some of the other lads have alluded to it above, but my biggest question is *when* did the referee know the scores were wrong? Surely Antrim would have had an idea and at least queried it after the game? And the usual practice of having umpires to tally the scores with him would have at least raised a question. It is terrible that the presentation was allowed go ahead, especially as it seems to have come out very quickly afterwards. Surely someone, somewhere should have known to shout 'stop' and not let the poor Meath lads go around celebrating and receiving the cup.

This would not have happened if it was Tipperary and Kilkenny, and should not have been allowed happen for Meath and Antrim. This is not a game held in Knockshegowna, it's a national final, held in our national stadium, with all the technology and personnel that entails.

[muppet]

I feel sorry for Meath on this one. How often are we told it is a game of inches, fastest game in the world, etc. The last few minutes of a tight game can be a complete blur and, when the whistle goes, if you get the cup then that should be that.

And to be fair to Antrim, anyone would feel aggrieved if they were awarded a loss when they definitely drew.

A replay is a farce at this stage.

What should be happening here is Croke Park needs to give a thorough explanation of what happened with the scoreboard. The players on both teams deserve that as a minimum, not to mention mentors and supporters. Sometimes things feel less like a terrible injustice when you can see an honest mistake and a hand held up apologising for it.