https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0111/1273078-did-ireland-really-fail-northern-catholics-during-the-troubles/
Does a bear shit in the woods?
It's safe to say that the south adopted a fatalistic attitude to the plight of northern nationalists after partition.
Whatever your affiliation in the matter, Serbia are not leaving their tiny ethnic minority to fend for themselves in Kosovo.
It is a curious piece of modern Irish history that it was Haughey who called it from1986 on, took action, who saw the absolute necessity of getting Sinn Fein involved and encouraged the British government to cop on and assert themselves with the unionists instead of being led by the dog
It felt like the only people interested in the welfare of us northern nationalists was the GAA.
Does anyone up here feel that the south really wants us. Can anyone here name one thing in the last twenty years that was done by the south that made you think they care about us.
Quote from: Hereiam on January 17, 2022, 09:51:30 PM
Does anyone up here feel that the south really wants us. Can anyone here name one thing in the last twenty years that was done by the south that made you think they care about us.
They're contributing £75m to the A5 project.
Quote from: Hereiam on January 17, 2022, 09:51:30 PM
Does anyone up here feel that the south really wants us. Can anyone here name one thing in the last twenty years that was done by the south that made you think they care about us.
The GFA vote.
The Protocol.
Quote from: Hereiam on January 17, 2022, 09:51:30 PM
Does anyone up here feel that the south really wants us. Can anyone here name one thing in the last twenty years that was done by the south that made you think they care about us.
Well that went well ;D
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:45:09 PM
It felt like the only people interested in the welfare of us northern nationalists was the GAA.
Tell that to the 1946 Antrim team.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2022, 12:13:53 AM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:45:09 PM
It felt like the only people interested in the welfare of us northern nationalists was the GAA.
Tell that to the 1946 Antrim team.
What happened?
http://www.terracetalk.com/articles/Memories/70/The-1946-All-Ireland-Final-and-the-Antrim-Objection
Quote from: bannside on January 18, 2022, 06:41:55 AM
http://www.terracetalk.com/articles/Memories/70/The-1946-All-Ireland-Final-and-the-Antrim-Objection
So Kerry were devious cute hoors back in 1946 too, who would have thought it.
Quote from: Hereiam on January 17, 2022, 09:51:30 PM
Does anyone up here feel that the south really wants us. Can anyone here name one thing in the last twenty years that was done by the south that made you think they care about us.
The aqueduct
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 10:23:42 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 17, 2022, 09:51:30 PM
Does anyone up here feel that the south really wants us. Can anyone here name one thing in the last twenty years that was done by the south that made you think they care about us.
The GFA vote.
GFA - 1998 - over twenty years ago
A5 Road - will never be built because its west of the Bann and the unionists don't want it. South had committed more money to is at the beginning but have pulled back on this amount which says alot.
Protocol - The DUP get the credit for this one.
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2022, 07:20:43 PM
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0111/1273078-did-ireland-really-fail-northern-catholics-during-the-troubles/
Even the title of that article is ironic. Apparently northern Catholics are separate from "Ireland" ::)
Anyway, the line often thrown back at northern nationalists who complain about the south turning a blind eye is "what did you expect us to do, invade?" This letter from Danny Morrison to the Irish Times, is a blistering response to that question:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJWngDwWQAcH1pe?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Nail on the head from Danny Morrison. Department of Foreign Affairs!
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
So the north was lumped into the category of "foreign affairs" by successive southern governments because of the strength of the pound?
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
Point 1. In 1922 the Dail was indeed still looking over it's shoulder to make sure it didn't offend those in London but in 1968 on they never seemed to leverage the awakened Irish American support in the US they could have had if they'd been more confrontational with the Brits over what was happening here, Jack Lynch, great hurler, poor statesman.
Point 2. Not sure what to make of that group trauma statement TBH, utter písh is my first instinctive response then with a little more thinking it's probably a little unsurprising that especially within the nationalist community there is possibly such a thing. Considering that we considered those in the 26 to be our friends, allies, the one and the same as us only to be let down time and time again and heck even demonised as being the instigators of our own problems by parts of the Irish Gov and ruling elites then it's probably understandable.
As for the decades statement, that's kicking the very much live and now can down the road, when the will for a UI hits the 50+1 mark, it'll be a tsunami rather than a slow progress like you think it might be. Think of German unification.
Better to have a plan in place now rather than off the hoof.
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
Telling response. Morrison's letter mentions events in the 1960's, 1970 and 1984.
As the first point of your rebuttal to defend the actions of the government, you conveniently choose the political situation in 1922.
A border poll will illustrate support for a united nation in Ireland. I suspect that there will be no second thoughts amongst many supposedly on the fence. There is nothing owed to anyone by those who will choose or vote for it. It just the natural democratic fix to a very undemocratic and enforced problem, which turned rotten, as any sectarian statelet will. A united Island with a liberal outlook on the world will have a fine future for all....
'the south' is not a term used by Irish people ;)
Quote from: Franko on January 18, 2022, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
Telling response. Morrison's letter mentions events in the 1960's, 1970 and 1984.
As the first point of your rebuttal to defend the actions of the government, you conveniently choose the political situation in 1922.
Morrison is an ideologues. NI in 1984 was the most violent region in Western Europe. I remember the first ceasefire. People in Dublin couldn't believe it. We were so used to the nihilism on the news.
I think the Shinners need to do outreach work to all the people in the Republic who think NI is a different country.
The South definitely left Nationalists behind in the lack of spine when fellow Irish men and women were under siege. Even up to modern times, the lack of intervention when the British gave a state funeral to a soldier who shot a young man with special needs John Pat Cunningham in the back, while Unionists were getting selfies with the murderer. Multiply stuff like that by any number you want and that was and continues to be shameful.
Southern establishment did do a good job with Brexit by using their influence in EU to stick it to Tory's. But that was late in the game after everything that went before. And even with that, I'm not sure people in South were invested in the implications of Brexit for nationalist community. Most may not even understand how it would have cut nationalists off further.
The one good thing was Irish passports and perhaps all-island state funding for sports like Olympics. Some think this happened with GFA but everyone born in North was always entitled to an Irish passport. Small consolidation I know when faced with state murdering machine, state collusion with Loyalists, job discrimination, etc.
Perhaps the last good thing is I do feel the economy has been integrated in a deep way with all-island electricity grid, tourism, agri-food, now essentially keeping North in same customs Union with Protocol so that unity will bring less infrastructural challenges. That work often goes unnoticed. But it's leading to a less painful economic unity which i expect in the next decade.
I was glad to hear recently that the south requested Kate Hoey wouldn't become the secretary of state when labour were in power because we all know listening to her recently that would have been disaster.
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 18, 2022, 03:08:03 PM
'the south' is not a term used by Irish people ;)
Either is "nordies" ;)
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 18, 2022, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
Telling response. Morrison's letter mentions events in the 1960's, 1970 and 1984.
As the first point of your rebuttal to defend the actions of the government, you conveniently choose the political situation in 1922.
Morrison is an ideologues. NI in 1984 was the most violent region in Western Europe. I remember the first ceasefire. People in Dublin couldn't believe it. We were so used to the nihilism on the news.
I think the Shinners need to do outreach work to all the people in the Republic who think NI is a different country.
What a weasle response. How about instead of just ignoring Danny Morrison's points, you might offer a counter argument to them, rather than just ignoring his points and posting a four word personal attack on him?
It is very ironic that someone (Danny Morrison) putting forward a detailed and eloquent summary of why nationalists in the north feel historically ignored by the south, has a poster from the south trying to claim he is wrong by...simply ignoring every single point Morrison made.
Quote from: Snapchap on January 18, 2022, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
So the north was lumped into the category of "foreign affairs" by successive southern governments because of the strength of the pound?
Well?
Quote from: Snapchap on January 18, 2022, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
So the north was lumped into the category of "foreign affairs" by successive southern governments because of the strength of the pound?
You can argue this both ways. The North might be regarded as a "home" affair, but the use of the term Foreign Affairs for dealing with the British government is some of a response to their attempt to claim Ireland and have their Imperial office deal with it.
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 18, 2022, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
Telling response. Morrison's letter mentions events in the 1960's, 1970 and 1984.
As the first point of your rebuttal to defend the actions of the government, you conveniently choose the political situation in 1922.
Morrison is an ideologues. NI in 1984 was the most violent region in Western Europe. I remember the first ceasefire. People in Dublin couldn't believe it. We were so used to the nihilism on the news.
I think the Shinners need to do outreach work to all the people in the Republic who think NI is a different country.
With all due respect, this is a load of drivel.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2022, 05:05:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 18, 2022, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
So the north was lumped into the category of "foreign affairs" by successive southern governments because of the strength of the pound?
You can argue this both ways. The North might be regarded as a "home" affair, but the use of the term Foreign Affairs for dealing with the British government is some of a response to their attempt to claim Ireland and have their Imperial office deal with it.
lol now that's a creative imagination!
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2022, 05:05:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on January 18, 2022, 11:23:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
The Shinner narrative is very alluring but I think it it ignores 2 key facts :
1. In 1922 the UK was the dominant global economic power and sterling was the global currency. The South had SFA leverage
2. NI has some form of group trauma and any UI will need to planned over a number of decades if it is to fly. There is no way it will happen in the short term.
So the north was lumped into the category of "foreign affairs" by successive southern governments because of the strength of the pound?
You can argue this both ways. The North might be regarded as a "home" affair, but the use of the term Foreign Affairs for dealing with the British government is some of a response to their attempt to claim Ireland and have their Imperial office deal with it.
That's quite the reach there ;D ;D
The desperate grasping for the slightest justification in this thread is a sight to behold
The British are foreigners, are they not?
Quote from: armaghniac on January 19, 2022, 12:43:57 AM
The British are foreigners, are they not?
The British are, yes. ::)
Banagher allegedly on the receiving end of some anti-northern sentiment in their AI intermediate hurling semi..
Quote from: general_lee on January 23, 2022, 10:28:16 PM
Banagher allegedly on the receiving end of some anti-northern sentiment in their AI intermediate hurling semi..
https://twitter.com/rhiannonfarren/status/1485292122697777159?s=20
If you want a textbook example of how the south has historically abandoned northern nationalism, consider how utterly absurd it it that when Micheal Martin turns up at the Bloody Sunday 50th Anniversary this weekend, it will be the very first time a sitting Taoiseach will have done so. Let that sink in. Contrast that with the fact that Taoisigh are an annual fixture at the Enniskillen Bombing Memorial and you can see the mindsets/motivations at play.
I know I posted this link a few weeks ago on another thread, but for the weekend that's in it, it's worth reposting it. It's a video where Eamon McCann recounts the way their campaign was ignored/resisted by the southern establishment. Shocking to listen to:
https://twitter.com/DanielCollins85/status/1267451641600659458?t=qhHsRdSFRcyT1zns9K5ipQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/DanielCollins85/status/1267451641600659458?t=qhHsRdSFRcyT1zns9K5ipQ&s=19)