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Winning nothing yet being relatively compeditive is good enough at juvenile. Getting pummeled week in week out year in year out is a different experience completely

I'd agree but from what I remember of the Cooper interview it seemed like they weren't even that competitive. Maybe I'm not remembering the interview fully 100%  so that might not be gospel. You'd think that Crokes being a town team would have a decent pick and be fairly competitive. I'd say the interview was maybe something like 5 years ago.I've a notion it was maybe Des Cahill. Was just one of those things that struck me as strange especially when you have had Crokes record as a club team the last while.

I think they are one of the better rule changes. 

People are bleating on about them not being applied correctly but they've only recently been brought in.  A rule  that we learn from day 1 (over carrying) is still not being applied consistently.

What's still shocking is the huge number of people who have a very hazy idea of what's an actual black card offence, especially some of the pundits.

There's a whole bunch of GAA folk I'd love to doorstep with a camera crew and ask them to what the rule-book actually defines as a tackle.
If you are a manager, coach, pundit or player and you don't know what the rule-book says is a tackle, they don't be surprised when a ref blows for a foul against you/your player.

To me there seems to be a serious chunk of GAA folk who have either never read the rules or havent read them in decades or if they have read them their reading comprehension must be so low as being close to being non-existent.

[Seanie, I know your club. Have you sobered up yet?]

It would be helpful if he named ye're clubs so we could follow them.
Seanie, I know your club.  Have you sobered up yet?

New York are div 1 in men's and div 2 in ladies after they won Div 3 last year. 

It's a great event and the change to a shield and cup format has made it much better in my opinion.

I actually hadn't started drinking by the time we won it believe it or not  but when we really got into it the whole thing fell apart. That team never lost any game until U-16, a competitive game until U-17 (we still won the competition) but lost the minor championship semi final. The team was a shambles by then unfortunately and the 6 or 7 really committed players were not enough to bring us home. It's one of my major football regrets to have not won a minor or U-21 but we simply as a team did not deserve it. Winning too much too young is not always a good thing.

I'd definitely agree and definitely think its relevant to the whole Feile thing.

Remember seeing an interview with Colm Cooper a few years back and he was talking about how the underage team he was on all along won absolutely nothing going up through the grades - it's almost a bit surreal when you think about it.

[The people advocating a split championship want to see games between the best teams.]

I think you're misreading it deiseach. I don't think people give a shite about Waterford, Carlow or London, or anyone else. The people advocating a split championship want to see games between the best teams. As I've said, what they really want is not to see Dublin hammer teams, or not to see other teams hammer the three I mentioned.

Yup - none of this is coming from the teams themselves 

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/brudair-give-basement-teams-a-b-championship-332260.html

http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/2015/06/17/the-forum-clubs-show-support-for-second-tier/

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=219651

Was thinking about the likely impact in terms of the subs benches and had a quick look at the games both have played so far and how much they have used the subs bench.

So far in the championship Donegal have used 12 subs in 3 games playing roughly 130 minutes and contributing zero to the scoreboard.

Monaghan by contrast have used 10 subs in 2 games playing roughly 210 minutes and contributing 7 points (all from play)

7 of those Donegal subs were made in the 68th minute or later while the latest Monaghan made any sub was the 67th minute.

The total time played is an approximate figure as trying to get completely accurate time subs are on the field with injury time is almost impossible.

However overall I think it's clear that there is a definite gap in the teams in terms of the subs bench and I don't think this is down to Monaghan having an especially strong bench but more down to the fact that Donegal have a very weak one.

You're adamant about this donegal subs bench!

Yeah I know

Shure there's worse things I could be bothered about....

I know the Tipperary situation, and I can guarantee you there is zero appetite to be in a second or third tier competition. Declan Browne won that competition in a different era for Tipp. You'd be cutting the legs from underneath the work that's being done here.

Of course the division 4 teams are going to get beaten, there's a reason they are in division 4, but that's no reason to stop them entering the championship if they want to.

And as for the minor competitions in hurling, can you name off the top of your head the 6 finalists? Be honest. I probably could with a good bit of thought, but I certainly can't rattle them off. Is there any evidence to suggest that the game of hurling is thriving in any of those counties as a result of their participation and winning this?

I suspect Sligo beating Roscommon a couple of weeks ago is a bigger boon to the GAA in Sligo than winning a third tier competition would be.

I mentioned Declan Browne because you were putting forward the argument that players would have no appetite from playing in a lesser competition.

The structure of the lesser hurling competitions aren't going to be a magic fix for sides - hard graft in terms of developing players is still going to be the big driver for success but at least they get sides who want to develop a roadmap.
However imagine the hurling championship had the same structure as the football championship what sort of a disaster of a state the game would be in nationwide - imagine you had lads from say Kerry who were in the Munster championship and taking a hammering year after year. Hurling might not be thriving in these lesser counties but I'd imagine the situation is far better than if sides were in a similar place to where the Division 4 teams are in football, especially given it's even easier for a better team to hand out a walloping in hurling due to the different scoring rates.

Anyway Central Council has asked from submission from various county boards, so I would imagine we'll be hearing more on this before too long.

Lenny, aren't those days the reason we all play and support the games? Whether Antrim would knock as much joy out of winning a Junior Championship I don't know, but experience of the Tommy Murphy Cup would suggest not. Also the way the Christy Ring Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher Cups are treated wouldn't inspire me as a player.

I want Offaly to play against Dublin, Kildare and Meath. I don't know that Offaly would be inspired by winning a Junior championship game against Waterford. At least when they beat Waterford this time around they've set themselves a task against Kildare.

It seems to me that the problem is : We want Dublin to only play the top 5 teams in the country, and we don't want the bottom 5 to play at all.

Pretty sure Declan Browne has talked about he felt about captaining Tipp to win the Tommy Murphy cup. Look at how various hurling teams have reacted to winning the various "lesser" competitions. Seemed to me that there was a severe lack of joy being felt by the various victors. The way the hurling competitions are treated aren't ideal but I'd imagine if you put it to a vote amongst footballers in the lesser counties between competing in similar competitions versus going out in the championship each year with the main goal of hoping to avoid a battering I know where my money would be going.

So far this year teams that played in Division 4 have played 17 championship games -and have racked up 14 losses with 2 of the 3 wins being where one Division 4 side beat another Division 4 side. The other was the shock win of Antrim over Laois.

Basically for Division 4 teams in the championship they are simply making up the numbers - their only chance of progression is hoping to be drawn against other Division 4 teams or coming up against a side from higher up the divisions who turn in an absolute nightmare performance on the day.

Some will say that's fine in sport you are always going to have losers - however the thing is a lot of these sides have spoken about the fact that they are not happy with the current situation. It's not as if it's a case that you have the Dublins and the Kerrys of the world coming out demanding that they be gotten rid of. You have had managers of these counties - the lads who are up against the coalface coming out talking about alternatives.

The fact that these teams constantly seem to have issues with getting lads even willing to tog out to represent their county says a world to me about how bad the situation is, with Waterford not even able to name 24 players in their squad for their last game.

Why do people continually refer to the league division counties are in as if it has some relevance to their championship pedigree or potential? Lazy, stupid approach.

Because there is an extremely high correlation between league standings and championship success.

34 championship games played so far this year and only 3 games where a side beat opposition who played in a higher division than them in the league this year.

[Question is has Meath's collapse yesterday psychologically destroyed them or will that be the kick up the arse to ignite a backlash?]

This draw will focus the minds big time for both teams. Question is has Meath's collapse yesterday psychologically destroyed them or will that be the kick up the arse to ignite a backlash?

I would be very surprised if Tyrone don't get through this - I doubt it will be all that convincing a win by Tyrone but I expect them to just slowly inexorably put Meath away over the 70 minutes.

[Amazed to see over 50k at the games tbh.]

Won't last forever as well  we know it. Marquee forwards win titles for you and they only come along once in a blue moon.

Dublin imo anyway need to rack up national titles in the next two or three years before we sink back into the pack. Donegal, Mayo , Kerry etc will have something to say about that.

Amazed to see over 50k at the games tbh.

Was talking to someone at it and they said the scoreboard had a figure of 44k for the crowd at one point. Bit of a strange one.

The 4 counties involved are all fairly near and I think it was a fairly quiet for a summer weekend in terms of events and stuff.

Plus a double-header is pretty decent value for money especially if you're not going to have travel 3/4/5 hours in either direction to get there.

Was thinking about the likely impact in terms of the subs benches and had a quick look at the games both have played so far and how much they have used the subs bench.

So far in the championship Donegal have used 12 subs in 3 games playing roughly 130 minutes and contributing zero to the scoreboard.

Monaghan by contrast have used 10 subs in 2 games playing roughly 210 minutes and contributing 7 points (all from play)

7 of those Donegal subs were made in the 68th minute or later while the latest Monaghan made any sub was the 67th minute.

The total time played is an approximate figure as trying to get completely accurate time subs are on the field with injury time is almost impossible.

However overall I think it's clear that there is a definite gap in the teams in terms of the subs bench and I don't think this is down to Monaghan having an especially strong bench but more down to the fact that Donegal have a very weak one.

[McCorry talking]

Just watched Down getting their arses handed to them by a hurling county.  Jaysus, Down are drivel at the minute.

McCorry talking about getting ready for next years league straight after a championship defeat to a division 4 team was bizarre.

Shades of Comical Ali there.

Is McHugh having a stroke or is he pissed or something?

Tomas O'Se must be on his way to another function dressed like that. Complete overkill.

Sneaky little one there, the way he threw in  "since Armagh won that one All-Ireland"

The first two games, against Tyrone & Armagh, were seen by everyone as being big hurdles to get over.

On the basis of Tyrone and Armagh's performances since the Donegal game - unconvincing wins against a side that came joint bottom of Division 4 and a side that just avoided relegation to Division 3, you have to wonder were they really that big of a hurdle for Donegal to overcome.