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But you know what? When it's built, it ends up paying itself off. And then you own it until the place falls apart in 70 years time. So no matter what it is absolutely worth getting the additional rather than some bog basic terraced stadium

You do realise there is a far larger maintenance cost associated to all the above than some bog basic terraced stadium? Since the stadium is constructed at a similar price to the GAA regardless of whether its all-singing or basic, its the on going maintenance costs I'm concerned with.

For instance, those (unneeded) additional areas do not require upkeep, you don't need to periodically check the wiring, fire alarms etc on rooms that don't exist, nor do you need to clean them. Cleaning of terracing after games requires a fraction of the time. You've no seats to replace on terracing.

In the 2019 financial report - first one I got on google - Croke park had a stadium & admin expense of ~€6.2m. Heat/Light/Power was an additional €1m. Staff costs were ~€2.8m.

That is approx €10m to run the stadium. The latter two would be more direct functions of how many events are on - so will disregard them. If we reasonably assume that the stadium/admin costs are directly related to size, then Casement would be approx 40% Croke's maintenance cost - or €2.6m in 2019 prices.

So Ulster Council will need to raise somewhere in the region of €2.6m (2019 prices) after direct operating costs just to upkeep the stadium.

In 2019, Croke had 28 games and 3 concerts to deliver a gross income of around €29m. (total expenses to do that were €17m. We'll remove the "fixed" €~6.2m I mentioned above from this)

So they made approx €580k per game. We'll not factor by size to be favourable to Casement. It still means Ulster council need to fill or nearly fill Casement 4.5 times a year just to keep the stadium.

Needless to say, they won't be able to do this.



It. Doesn't. Fukking. Add. Up.


(Unless of course, there is an open admission that the Ulster Council are actually building a concert venue that they may occasionally let hold a football or hurling match.)

This is the exact problem that is killing PuC -  The Cork County Board had the same idea that concerts would be used to save their bacon - it worked for them in the 70s with the original stadium but that hasn't worked out for them this time around. Trying to payback debt when the stadium is making an ongoing loss is killing them. At the lastCork AGM they announced that the most "optimistic" estimate on when Cork County Board will be debt free is 2048.

As to the source for the estimated 308 million costs, this article is the original source and it's worth a read especially what Heaton-Harris has to say which given he is the one in London who said it would be built aren't exactly the best in terms of the vibes.

https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2024-03-01/stormont-officials-outline-cost-of-casement-rebuild-in-leaked-letter

On the UEFA requirements adding significant costs - I did see either a document or an article somewhere back when PuC was at the planning stage about how much extra meeting UEFA requirements would add to the cost and even back then it was a massive amount for the PUC project -  I can't remember the figure but from what I do recall it wasn't far off doubling the cost of the entire project. I want to say something like €50m million back when the PUC project was around the €70 million mark. I remember seeing it and knowing there was no chance PuC would ever meet the UEFA requirements. Also from what I remember a lot of the UEFA requirements were stuff that would be of no benefit to the GAA - there had to be a massive facility for the media and also there was a big requirement for corporate entertaining - from what I remember it was way way beyond what PuC would ever need even accounting for the wildest estimates of the Cork County Board.

Also I'd imagine that in any budget the hard deadline of the Euros would add a significant percentage to the overall cost.

If the Euro 2028 requirements were dropped I could see it saving a significant amount of the total cost. However if that was the case I could see London not being willing to contribute much if anything to the budget.

Why not have a 5 second rule rather than using steps

The actual wording of the current rule is

when a playeris in possession of the ball it may be : carried in the hand for a maximum of four consecutive steps or held in the hand for no longer than the time needed to take four steps.

Yet more evidence for the no-one actually botthers to read the GAA rulebook pile.

Rd 5 Fixtures 2/3 March

Derry v Dublin - Dublin
Mayo v Roscommon - Mayo
Kerry v Tyrone - Kerry
Monaghan v Galway - Monaghan

Fermanagh v Armagh - Armagh
Cavan v Meath - Cavan
Donegal v Louth - Donegal
Cork v Kildare - Cork

Limerick v Clare - Clare
Antrim v Westmeath - Westmeath
Down v Sligo - Down
Offaly v Wicklow - Offaly

Carlow v Wexford - Carlow
Laois v London - Laois
Tipperary v Waterford - Tipperary
Longford v Leitrim - Longford

Pretty much the only thing I've seen about estimated cost of the stadium anywhere was the bit below from the Examiner.

Some projections claim the final cost of reconstruction of the Euro 2028 venue will be in excess of £225m. The GAA's first commitment of £15m was roughly 20% of the original £77.5m outlay, which was estimated last July to have jumped to £168m.

Based on that I'd say £168m was an absolute basement price - this was before the Euros were confirmed and that time pressure (plus the extras UEFA insist on which will cost a bit more) is only going to affect the price one way. Throw in the fact that Leo and co pitched up with €50million already make me think the cost will be over the £200 million mark. The key question is what sort of funding London is going to actually hand over.
My fear is that at the end of the day Ulster GAA are going to be the ones left carrying the can for any cost over-runs, especially if the stadium isn't done in time for the Euros. The nightmare scenario is that the stadium doesn't get finished in time for the Euros and London turns off the money tap and Ulster GAA are left with a stadium that will costs millions to finish that Ulster GAA don't have.   

In related news was talking to someone this evening and they were saying the Cork County Board chairperson was on radio this morning and part of the disussion was about ownership of Pairc Ui Chaoimh being taken over by the government and being turned into a multi-use stadium. Said the current ongoing debt situation just wasn't sustainable.

Tyrone v Mayo  - Mayo
Dublin v Kerry - Kerry
Galway v Derry - Derry
Roscommon v Monaghan - Roscommon

Fermanagh v Cork - Fermanagh
Louth v Cavan  - Cavan
Meath v Kildare - Meath
Armagh v Donegal - Donegal

Down v Offaly - Down
Clare v Wicklow - Clare
Sligo v Antrim - Sligo
Westmeath v Limerick - Westmeath

Wexford v Waterford -Wexford
Longford v London - Longford
Carlow v Leitrim - Leitrim
Tipperary v Laois - Laois

Why are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 

Because the same thing that happened in Cork is going to happen except it's going to be across all of Ulster GAA as opposed to just one county when it comes to the paying of it. It's going to hoover up a huge percentage of the available money while being built and for a good while after, especially if it isn't able to make profit as a going concern. I think there is a serious risk of cutbacks and restrictions on spending across every absolutely every aspect of Ulster GAA for a good number of years.

Derry v Monaghan - Derry
Dublin v Roscommon - Dublin
Kerry v Mayo - Kerry
Tyrone v Galway - Tyrone

Donegal v Fermanagh - Donegal
Cork v Cavan - Cavan
Meath v Louth - Louth
Kildare v Armagh - Armagh

Antrim v Down - Down
Limerick v Sligo - Sligo
Offaly v Clare - Clare
Wicklow v Westmeath - Westmeath

Waterford v Longford - Longford
Laois v Carlow - Laois
London v Tipperary - Tipperary
Leitrim v Wexford - Leitrim

Would the league be even more important if  after provincial champs the seeding went by league standings.

It would obviously be more important but the reality is there is no way this will ever happen while the provincial councils have such a massive chunk of votes.

I think making is so that the provincial losers weren't the 2nd seeds would improve things some small bit.

Abbey winning 16-3 in the mclarnon. They're supposed to be backboned by four masters players so are probably very strong.

Are the schools in the 26, kids a year older?

Nope - same ages.

There used to be a 6 month difference years back that favoured Ulster (all nine from what I recall/not just the six)

Mayo v Dublin - Dublin
Monaghan v Kerry - Kerry
Roscommon v Galway - Galway
Derry v Tyrone - Derry

Armagh v Meath - Armagh
Fermanagh v Kildare - Fermanagh
Louth v Cork - Louth
Cavan v Donegal - Donegal

Down v Limerick - Down
Antrim v Offaly - Antrim
Sligo v Wicklow - Sligo
Westmeath v Clare - Westmeath

Carlow v Waterford - Carlow
Wexford v Laois - Wexford
Leitrim v London - Leitrim
Longford v Tipperary - Longford

Rd 1 27/28 January


Kerry v Derry - Kerry
Dublin v Monaghan - Dublin
Galway v Mayo - Galway
Tyrone v Roscommon - Tyrone

Meath v Fermanagh - Meath
Kildare v Cavan - Kildare
Armagh v Louth - Armagh
Donegal v Cork - Donegal

Limerick v Antrim - Limerick
Clare v Sligo - Clare
Offaly v Westmeath - Westmeath
Wicklow v Down - Down

Laois v Longford - Longford
Tipperary v Carlow - Tipperary
London v Wexford - London
Waterford v Leitrim - Leitrim

Does anyone know why PUC's financial projections didn't work out ?

The basic thing is that they adopted a yerra build it, everything will be grand attitude.
They decided we're building a new stadium and they worked backwards to try and fit the economic facts to make it make sense.They had to submit their business plan to the Dept of Finance three times after the first two efforts were rejected as inadequate and the version I heard that there was political involvement so that the third version wasn't rejected. Basically the department said their forecasts on everything positive were wildly over-optimistic in terms of corporate tickets/number of matches/crowds at matches/profits from concerts and that costs were under-estimated. There was talk at one point that the direct government chunk of €30m was not going to be handed over. All this talk obviously reached the ears of someone in the EU as they did a review of this but the EU weren't able to prove anything.
Ironically in one version of their business plan they had budgeted for receiving €150k for naming rights to the stadium in 2017 as part of their projected budget.The fact that it has taken them until now to get this deal done should provide an insight in the competence levels.
So the original forecasts over-estimated revenue and underestimated costs.
Things were made worse by the fact that the construction budget went wildly over budget.
This is based on stuff I've read over the years in the papers and Phoenix as well as stuff I've heard.
The tragic thing is that there seems to be a lot of similarities between what went on with PuC and what's gone/going on with the Casement Park. The big difference is that the Casement project seems to have been thrown a life ring with the Euros situation. However if anything happens to that life ring I really can't see Casement not being Puc 2.0
 

Bigger gap in junior hurling than football going by the first half here

Part of the issue is that Cork send the winners of their 3rd and 5th tier hurling competitions to compete in the Munster/All-Ireland championships same as they do with the football.

This is all so the 2nd tier clubs can call themselves senior, and the 3rd and 4th tier clubs can call themselves intermediate.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/monaghan-blow-as-star-karl-gallaghers-two-year-afl-deal-with-the-adelaide-crows-is-confirmed/

Gallagher signs a two year rookie contract. A loss for Monaghan.