Quinn Insurance in Administration

[muppet]

Muppet, there's few who believe that Sean Quinn was a victim. He put his hands up himself to mistakes he made. And it cost him his own personal wealth and from the looks of it everything he ever built up. But he wanted to work with Anglo to try and pay it back. Instead Anglo decided to try and take everything in a military style take over. Which is fair enough had they done everything by the book themselves. But were they really surprised when SQ decided to fight back and started to expose the corruption of the bank? I know that Senior political representatives now believe they made a c**k up in taking over everything. They would have had a better chance of recovering more of the debt which him on board IMO.

I would be quite happy if the (apparent) Mayan predictions applied to exclusively Anglo. It was the most hideous organisation this state ever produced and that is saying something. But suggesting things would have been better with Sean Quinn on their board is a step too far for me. Remember he is in jail for contempt of count.

[supersarsfields]

That's fair enough Muppet, we've all got our opinions. Like I said, I couldn't say for definite that the group would be doing better with SQ on board. But it would be my personal opinion that it would be and that there would be a greater chance of recovering more of the debt.

[muppet]

That's fair enough Muppet, we've all got our opinions. Like I said, I couldn't say for definite that the group would be doing better with SQ on board. But it would be my personal opinion that it would be and that there would be a greater chance of recovering more of the debt.

According to the book Quinn suffered heavy losses during the dotcom crash in the 1990s. You can argue this point both for and against Quinn (e.g. it demonstrates he had a reckless streak or it demonstrated his ability to recover from losses). The book doesn't mention how bad those losses were. Is it common knowledge?

[supersarsfields]

I don't know if it was common knowledge at the time as I never heard about it, but it was before my involvement with Quinns at the time so I wouldn't have passed that much interest. But I know it was actually one of the main reasons he diversified into different sectors.

[seafoid]

With all due respect to SQ the country was hit by a financial tsunami in 2008 and it will take many years to get over it. Many more people than him have suffered and many more will in future

2013 will be the year home repossessions really get going

The banks are still fucked as well


http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2012/cr12336.pdf

Financial reform benefits. In the wake of an exceptionally deep financial crisis, with impacts across the system, financial sector reform challenges remain substantial, and there is uncertainty around the timing and magnitude of the benefits of financial sector reforms for reviving banks' profitability and capacity to lend to households and SMEs.

• Debt overhangs. Government debt is set to peak at some 122 percent of GDP, household debt is 209 percent of disposable income, and many SMEs are burdened by property-related loans. These debts drag on growth through private deleveraging, reduced access to credit at higher cost, and concerns about future tax burdens.

• Bank-sovereign loop. These debt stocks are compounded by still large contingent liabilities from the banking system in a scenario where weak growth reduces asset values and heightens loan losses. As a result, the challenges for sovereign and banks in accessing market funding are interlocked, magnifying the growth uncertainties.

• Fiscal drag. Fiscal consolidation will continue to be significant in coming years, with the growth impact depending on the composition of measures and also on external economic conditions and progress in easing credit constraints.
These risks to growth have profound adverse implications for debt sustainability
In these circumstances, Ireland's market access is fragile, and relies crucially on the strength of program implementation, together with forceful delivery on European commitments.


In their updated MTFS, the authorities have reaffirmed their consolidation effort
of €8.6 billion (5 percent of GDP) in 2013–15 (MEFP ¶4–6). The consolidation will continue to be led by current spending, but with revenues contributing close to 40 percent of the savings.

On the current expenditure side, the authorities plan to reduce spending on universal social benefits (e.g., child benefit) and subsidies (e.g., tertiary education), with effective means-tested offsets for welfare recipients and low-income earners. Also under review are options to address the significant fiscal implications of population ageing, as highlighted in the recent actuarial review of the Social Insurance Fund. In relation to public pay—which includes a significant premium over private sector pay (Box 3)— the authorities have begun to engage with public sector unions to secure signif icant additional wage and pension bill savings in the period to 2015, including through additional structural productivity reforms relating to hours worked. Together with plans to cut personnel numbers by another 3½ percent over the next two years,these measures will deliver significant public wage bill reductions.

PCAR (Irish) banks' NPL (non perfoming loan) ratio of 23.1 percent compares with 9.6 percent in Spain , even after a substantial amount of problem assets had already been transferred to NAMA.

Progress on the supporting infrastructure is essential to make the new personal insolvency framework operational in early 2013. A recently appointed Director Designate has been tasked with setting up an Insolvency Service to administer the new framework. Among its initial tasks, the information campaign for all parties concerned with the new framework will be particularly important. In the context of debt relief notices, it will issue guidelines for reasonable household expenditures for debtors, which may usefully inform the broader range of out-of-court arrangements.
Reform of the personal insolvency regime should be complemented by an
effective repossessions process to facilitate durable loan resolution. The number of repossessions in Ireland is very low by international standards, and proceedings often take over a year, although recently banks have intensified collection efforts on investment properties by appointing rent receivers. The authorities will introduce legislation by end March 2013 to address issues identified by case law in repossessions


Source of drag Impact on Bank net revenue as % net assets
High deposit funding costs -0.3
Foregone interest income on NPLs -0.4
o/w: non-cash income recorded on impaired loans -0.3
Tracker mortgages -0.4
Excess operating costs -0.4
ELG fees -0.4
Total -1.9


Risks around medium-term growth prospects are a key source of fragility in Ireland's debt sustainability, in part because prolonged low growth could result in new capital needs in the financial sector.


The reforms of personal insolvency will provide new opportunities for out-of-court resolution of household debt distress, and it is essential that these reforms be complemented by a well functioning repossession process to maintain debt service discipline through the workout process. Continued efforts to lower funding costs, including by orderly withdrawal of the ELG
scheme and steps to reduce operational costs are essential, yet breaking the bank-sovereign loop would have the greatest benefit for strengthening profitability and lending capacity.

[orangeman]

Nice and cosy  -

Former Anglo Irish Bank chief executive and chairman Seán FitzPatrick has been arrested.

He was arrested by appointment this morning and is being held at Bridewell Garda Station.

Mr FitzPatrick is expected to appear before Dublin District Court this morning.

It is believed he is facing 12 charges in relation to an alleged failure to notify Directors Loans as required under company law.

[AQMP]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20786750

The Quinn Group cement and quarrying business is in talks to merge with part of the Belfast-based Lagan group.

Quinn Building Products and the Lagan Cement Group have signed a memorandum of understanding that may lead to a joint venture between the two.  The firms employ about 570 people in a variety of locations across Ireland.  If the venture goes ahead it will be the second largest cement supplier in Ireland behind Irish Cement, which is owned by the multinational CRH.  Quinn Building Products supplies cement, concrete, roof tiles and other quarry products from plants at Ballyconnell in County Cavan and Derrylin in County Fermanagh. Other Quinn manufacturing businesses which make insulating products and tarmac are not part of the proposed deal.

The Lagan Cement Group supplies similar products from a large cement plant at Kinnegad in County Meath. It also has a facility in Cork under the Healy Brothers brand.  In Northern Ireland, it operates from Ballystockart quarry, Glengormley, Whitemountain quarry and Temple quarry. It also has a facility in the Netherlands.  The Lagan Sand business is not part of the proposed deal.

Commenting on the proposal the chief executive of Quinn Manufacturing Group, Paul O'Brien and his counterpart at Lagan Cement Group, Jude Lagan, said: "By combining two stable Irish businesses the proposed joint venture will create a sustainable independent cement manufacturer that can continue to support its customers on a competitive basis."  The joint venture discussions are likely to take up to three months to complete and any proposal would be subject to approval by the Republic of Ireland's Competition Authority.  The Quinn business is controlled by a consortium of international banks after it was placed into receivership in 2011.

The Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IBRC), the Irish state-owned bank, owns 24.9% of it.  The group was formerly owned by the bankrupt ex-billionaire Sean Quinn.  The Lagan Group is owned by Kevin Lagan, one of Northern Ireland's wealthiest businessmen.

[orangeman]

Sean's out.


Who's next ?

Can't see any of the Anglo boys ever taking his place. That would just be too costly for the state.

[gerrykeegan]

With out a shadow of a doubt some of the Anglo boys will do time. Seanie Fitz is odds on.

[muppet]

Sean's out.


Who's next ?

Can't see any of the Anglo boys ever taking his place. That would just be too costly for the state.

Quinn did time for contempt of court. Fitzpatrick hasn't to date been in contempt.

Neither Quinn nor Fitzpatrick are anywhere near the end of their processes yet although Quinn appears further along. I would guess they will both see plenty of time.

Here's hoping.

[supersarsfields]

Is there not some "queries" with the type of charges they are going after Seanie Fitz for? I was reading it on another forum that he is being charged under Company law rather than more serious European Market abuse directive? Which is why they haven't moved against anyone else in the maple 10 dealings as they're not company officers.

[muppet]

Is there not some "queries" with the type of charges they are going after Seanie Fitz for? I was reading it on another forum that he is being charged under Company law rather than more serious European Market abuse directive? Which is why they haven't moved against anyone else in the maple 10 dealings as they're not company officers.

If they went down that line then surely Sean Quinn would also be charged? If the Maple 10 can be done for market abuse (I know nothing of these EU market abuse directives) then Quinn's current defence could seriously compromise himself?

[supersarsfields]

I would imagine so Muppet. That was the point the guys on the other forum were making, that they weren't going after anyone yet from the Maple 10 or the Quinns,  when you would think if there was enough to charge Seanie Fitz et al there would be enough to charge them all.  And that Fitz was being tried under Company law rather than the more severe European Law. They were claiming a cover up because if it was tried under the European Abuse directive, it would open the possibility of Share holders in Anglo suing Anglo, Quinn and Maple 10 under market abuse which would open a whole new can of worms.
To be honest, I don't know enough about company law let alone the European directives to know if this argument is right or not, but just thought that it was interesting. 

[muppet]

I would imagine so Muppet. That was the point the guys on the other forum were making, that they weren't going after anyone yet from the Maple 10 or the Quinns,  when you would think if there was enough to charge Seanie Fitz et al there would be enough to charge them all.  And that Fitz was being tried under Company law rather than the more severe European Law. They were claiming a cover up because if it was tried under the European Abuse directive, it would open the possibility of Share holders in Anglo suing Anglo, Quinn and Maple 10 under market abuse which would open a whole new can of worms.
To be honest, I don't know enough about company law let alone the European directives to know if this argument is right or not, but just thought that it was interesting.

It appears to be the law now in Ireland (S.I. No. 342 of 2005): http://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/securities-markets/market-abuse/Documents/MarketAbuseRegulations.pdf

I can't see any great sanctions in the above link so going down the Company Law route at least could put anyone guilty of an offence(s) in jail. From the shareholders POV, surely they could sue anyway using the above SI?

Any legal eagles here willing to comment?

[supersarsfields]

I had always wondered if there was an option of taking private cases against Anglo for both their Fraudelent accounts and the share support. But again I would have thought if that was an option it would have been done by now.
I also see the Quinns are extending they're compensation claim to include the central bank and the Department of Finance.