Quinn Insurance in Administration

[supersarsfields]

I was wondering when you would appear. Your slowing down.

[Rossfan]

I have work to do to try and keep an oul job going.
I am sick listening to those whingin Quinn cnuts and their barrister certainly took the biscuit yesterday  - "poor SQ -a frail poor oul man sure he couldn't be put in jail"
He'll be calling in the V de P or Simon next.

[orangeman]

Jim Fitzpatrick doing somersaults today.


The inevitability of Sean Quinn's jailing at the hands of Mrs Justice Dunne, does not diminish the jaw-dropping shock at seeing him taken from the Four Courts to Mountjoy jail in a prison van.

People talk about the ongoing Quinn saga, but this tale is much more in the mould of Greek tragedy than Norse myth.

The fates decreed that the man who once was Ireland's richest, would end up in prison, because all the other elements of Greek tragedy were there from the beginning.

The first is hamartia - a tragic human flaw.

In Sean Quinn's case it was his exceptional greed. He was keenly aware of this character flaw, but instead saw it at as a positive.

He famously told an audience at the height of his power: "I suppose I was always very greedy. I was never happy with what we had, and I was always looking for new opportunities."

Greed served him well up to a point - fashioning a manufacturing giant from the very sand that lay beneath his family farm. It was tangible success with tangible products - you can't get more concrete than, well, concrete.

But as he sought those new opportunities his greed began to take him towards the intangible - insurance, shares, derivatives - where the seeds of his destruction were sown.

Debts

When he placed the biggest financial bet in Irish history - on the bank he then loved, Anglo Irish - he was already Ireland's richest man. Had his bet come good he would have placed himself between Roman Abramovich and the Duke of Westminster as the UK's third richest person with a fortune of £8bn or more.

But it didn't come good. It went bad. Very bad. And he turned to the bank he had bet on for help.

Either it lent him the money to pay his debts, or they were both going down together. He mortgaged his empire to the tune of 2.8bn euros.

It wasn't just the biggest financial bet in Irish history, it was the riskiest. That level of risk suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of the intangible Contracts for Difference that comprised the bet.

CFDs allow buyers to put a deposit down to gain control over shares - therefore with, say, 20% of the money they get all the increase in value on 100% of the shares should they go up. But if they go down, they suffer 100% of the loss.

And as more facts emerge about the history of under-provisioning and risk-taking at Quinn Insurance, it is hard not to conclude that Sean Quinn should have taken that most basic business advice to heart and stuck to what he knew.

A chain of events unfolded leading to the insurance business being taken from him by the regulator and ultimately the entire company as Anglo sought security over its debts.

Dramatic

But it's worth remembering that this didn't happen overnight. Sean Quinn was only deposed in April 2011 - years after the fateful bet. And it was during this period that the border tycoon displayed the another key element of Greek tragedy - hubris.

A senior businessman who knows Quinn told me that during the fraught negotiations with the bank that preceded his downfall, Sean Quinn confided in him.

This confidante was shocked by his attitude: "They'll never take it away from me. I'm too big for that", he reportedly said.

But Ireland had changed. It wasn't just regime change at the bank. It had been all change at the regulatory authorities and dramatic change in government too.

The rules of the business game in Ireland were not the same and Sean Quinn didn't see it. He over-negotiated on the terms of his exit and lost it all as a result.

Next, a combination of greed and anger propelled Sean Quinn to take the actions that ultimately led to the catastrophe he is experiencing today. His decision to sanction, support and add his signature to a plan to take half a billion euros worth of assets back from the bank that now owned them was his most ill-judged move to date.

The Quinn family argues that the "big case" regarding the legality of Anglo loans needs to be determined first before any action is taken to recover disputed assets.

But until a court says otherwise - and none has - those assets are only disputed in the minds of the Quinns and their supporters. Taking them now, and the income that flows from them, is illegal. And to do so on the basis of a future court decision finding in your favour is self-contradictory and absurd.

Emotions

So Sean Quinn goes to jail for contempt of court and could yet face more serious criminal charges that would keep him there for some time.

It is a truly tragic fall from power. There were distressing scenes in court as the former billionaire was taken away. Supporters and Sean Quinn crying real tears. But there is no sign of any awareness of how alien his actions appear to the vast majority of his fellow Irish citizens. Perhaps that will come.

And as for that wider population: does the imprisonment of the mighty Quinn and the faltering recovery of those international assets that now belong to the state-owned bank, bring catharsis, the healing and purging of emotions that the Greek writers would have liked?

That too, remains an unanswered question. This tragedy has a number of further acts to play out.

[supersarsfields]

I have work to do to try and keep an oul job going.
I am sick listening to those whingin Quinn cnuts and their barrister certainly took the biscuit yesterday  - "poor SQ -a frail poor oul man sure he couldn't be put in jail"
He'll be calling in the V de P or Simon next.

He's had two heart operations and is under a serious amount of stress regardless of whether you like him or not. Hardly surprising that this was brought up and taken into account by the judge.
But I don't understand, if your sick listening to it, why do you? Why force it on yourself? Why not ignore it? 

[seafoid]

So the rights of the individual goes out the window? Because multiple tax payers may benefit, The Quinns should drop any legitimate issue they had with anglo and just take the hit? Do you seriously believe anyone would do that?

They don't have a leg to stand on. It is over. Fermanagh have as much chance of winning this year's all ireland as the Quinns have of winning.

It is very sad but that's life. Meanwhile Ireland may well have a sovereign default on the back of Quinn and the other Anglo chancers. 

[supersarsfields]

Are you serious? Even the press accept that the Quinns have a case in regards to share support. Are you seriously saying that you don't believe there was share support? I mean seriously?

[seafoid]

It's interesting reading the start of the thread and comparing it to now where supersarsfields is surrounded by hostile Injuns and the sherrif has just brought SQ to the county jail. 

[orangeman]

Speaking to reporters before he was taken to a holding cell in the Four Courts, Quinn said the media had been "led by the nose" and said many questions remained about how IBRC had conducted itself.

He said there was an obligation on IBRC, which was acting on behalf of the Government, to fight the case honourably.

Quinn said IBRC had taken all his money, his companies, his reputation and had thrown him in jail, yet it had not proven that any money was owed or that they were right to appoint a receiver to his companies.

When asked how he felt on being sent to prison over Christmas, Quinn said when you had a wife, five children and grandchildren you did not need to be asked that.

He said: "For 64 of my 66 years I made very little mistakes. I ran my business very very well.

"Did I make mistakes in the last two years? Did my family make mistakes in the last two years? Yes, I did.

"Do I apologise here now in public for that? Yes, I do.

"Is it small fry compared to the overall assault that has been launched on us and taking over our companies and destroying them? It's an absolute disaster."

He said the biggest loss-maker in the history of the State was the State itself.

Quinn's comments to the media were interrupted by a garda who placed his hand on Mr Quinn's left arm and asked him to come with him.

[supersarsfields]

It's interesting reading the start of the thread and comparing it to now where supersarsfields is surrounded by hostile Injuns and the sherrif has just brought SQ to the county jail. 

No answer then. Surprise that. Could you not have at least cut and pasted something instead?

[arsecandle]

i hope seanie spends those nine weeks behind bars gettin shafted the same way his family have shafted the irish motorist for the next 30 years plus.
in other news peter daragh quinn is still being the cowardly little shite he is

[supersarsfields]

Is it not a case that he's going to start Jail today but is still appealing? The appeal was to overturn the conditions attached to the appeal. Similarly to the ones which were overturned by the Supreme court for Jr's case.

Maybe...it's all getting confusing!

I think the appeal is still going ahead. Pencilled in for Thursday next week.

[seafoid]

Are you serious? Even the press accept that the Quinns have a case in regards to share support. Are you seriously saying that you don't believe there was share support? I mean seriously?

Apart from the Impartial Reporter what press would that be?

If Quinn couldn't win his argument in court I'm afraid that is it.
I believe Quinn lost 2.8bn and that the money is now the responsibility of the taxpayer.

BTW SQ said the media had been led by the nose. Would that be the press ?

[seafoid]

Sars

Why don't you do a poll on the board, ask everyone their county and then see what everyone thinks ?

[supersarsfields]

You really don't understand do you? Virtually all the press say that the Quinns have a case regarding the share support, Even SQ's Nemesis Jim Fizpatrick in the BBC acknowledged that, Vicent brown discussed it at length on his show as well and the impact of what happens if the Quinns win.
The Quinn's couldn't win the case yet alright. That's because it's scheduled for next year. 

You are making it quite plain that you don't have a clue with regards to the overall argument.

[seafoid]

You really don't understand do you? Virtually all the press say that the Quinns have a case regarding the share support, Even SQ's Nemesis Jim Fizpatrick in the BBC acknowledged that, Vicent brown discussed it at length on his show as well and the impact of what happens if the Quinns win.
The Quinn's couldn't win the case yet alright. That's because it's scheduled for next year. 

You are making it quite plain that you don't have a clue with regards to the overall argument.

Sars

I appreciate that you are very loyal to the Quinns but you'll have to do better than VB and whoever the other fella is.
Won't the Quinns still be in prison next year anyway ?

the overall argument is fairly obvious. SQ sailed too close to the edge with the insurance company. The cost is around 1.6bn.
He made a big bet on Anglo and it went south. 2.8bn Now he wants the people to stump up.