Quinn Insurance in Administration

[Shamrock Shore]

Ben Dunne has rowed in behind Sean Quinn

With friends like these........

Just to add some food for thought. You know the way Quinn lost 2.x billion on the CFDs. Nobody is arguing this.

Who won on the other side?

Were they Irish?
Did they get some insider tips on the Quinn exposure and filled their boots?
How complicit were the stockbrokers?
Who did Quinn use to built up his mental gamble?

Who trousered 2.x billion?

[deiseach]

Ben Dunne has rowed in behind Sean Quinn

With friends like these........

Now now. Mickey Harte says he's okay, and one Mickey Harte outweighs (so to speak) any amount of Ben Dunnes. Or Michael O'Learys.

[Shamrock Shore]

No TYP. You are missing what happened. Quinn never bought the shares in Anglo that led to the big loss. He bought a margin in a trade. If the shares went up he was paid the margin. If the shares went down he forked over his loss to the middle man.

The 2.x bn did end up in someone's pocket(s). Literally.

But whos?

[Never beat the deeler]

Not really been following this except for on here, which has its own health warning, but read this article today which, while being a bit emotive at times, paints a fairly bad picture of the whole escapade.

Apologies if its nothing new to those following in more detail:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0731/1224321157051.html#.UBkcEIhWWBk.twitter

[Saffrongael]

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/23897

Wonder will Gildernew & Flanagan be told to toe the party line?

Sinn Fein are riding different horses in different jurisdictions, as usual.

There is a piece about it here

http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/08/01/sinn-fein-turning-on-a-sixpence-over-the-quinn-family-affair/

[deiseach]

No TYP. You are missing what happened. Quinn never bought the shares in Anglo that led to the big loss. He bought a margin in a trade. If the shares went up he was paid the margin. If the shares went down he forked over his loss to the middle man.

Never really understood the whole business until you explained it there. Keynes likened the stock market to a casino, but Quinn took him literally.

[sammymaguire]

So let's just saddle the taxpayers of the 26 and let those nice Quinns away with their disgraceful behaviour just because Anglo were a shower of cnuts too.
All the Quinn lovers would be singing a different tune if they were living this side of the Border.

Sean Boylan, Colm O'Rourke, Sean Kelly, Michael O'Leary... all men of the 26.  dry your eyes ffs

Maybe them and you might like to contact the family of the 19 year old girl who died in the back of an ambulance after a 2 and half hour trip because the A & E up the road from her was closed due to the loss of income to the State as a result of the activities of the Quinns and others of that ilk.
Would you like to stick your dirty tongue out at them and tell them to "dry their eyes FFS"

The Roscommon Hospital Action group or Ming will be able to give you  the family's number.
Absolutely sickening the sort of trash some people think are heroes.

Large parts of the health service/HSE in Ireland are second rate, pretty depressing isn't it?

Blame your government Ross, they needed the €85bn bailout, they are in charge. Why is Ming an Independent TD and not a member of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael or Labour? Does he not believe they can give you or your constituency the attention it needs and deserves?

There is a certain amount of debate in this thread about which side is the most wrong or wronged... but

Could anyone argue that are more rational, impartial and intelligent Irish Government could have kept 5,000-8,000 people in direct employment, maybe another 40,000 indirectly, regulate the Quinn Group as a component of state finance with a 20-25 year percentage levy into the public purse and manage the Quinn group forward through massive global upheaval...?  Quinn's companies and employees generated an annual tax of over €300 million for the Irish Exchequer.

Whereas now we face the whole business being broken up and sold, removal of any long term interest in local job retention, the tertiary employment base this company produced has been ruined and the country's largest private (and profitable) corporation has essentially been destroyed.

Quinn unwittingly jeopardised this by his Investment "gambling" antics (unbeknown to him he was dealing with a pungent bank and bankers who were worse) but any forthright government would have dealt with this whole situation a whole lot better than what has been a mafia-style smash and grab job!

[Rossfan]

So let's just saddle the taxpayers of the 26 and let those nice Quinns away with their disgraceful behaviour just because Anglo were a shower of cnuts too.
All the Quinn lovers would be singing a different tune if they were living this side of the Border.

Sean Boylan, Colm O'Rourke, Sean Kelly, Michael O'Leary... all men of the 26.  dry your eyes ffs

Maybe them and you might like to contact the family of the 19 year old girl who died in the back of an ambulance after a 2 and half hour trip because the A & E up the road from her was closed due to the loss of income to the State as a result of the activities of the Quinns and others of that ilk.
Would you like to stick your dirty tongue out at them and tell them to "dry their eyes FFS"

The Roscommon Hospital Action group or Ming will be able to give you  the family's number.
Absolutely sickening the sort of trash some people think are heroes.

Could anyone argue that are more rational, impartial and intelligent Irish Government could have kept 5,000-8,000 people in direct employment, maybe another 40,000 indirectly, regulate the Quinn Group as a component of state finance with a 20-25 year percentage levy into the public purse and manage the Quinn group forward through massive global upheaval...?  Quinn's companies and employees generated an annual tax of over €300 million for the Irish Exchequer.

It's costing us €1.6Bn to keep the Cowboy Insurance part of Quinn going 
But of course nobody in Fermanagh has to pay towards that so it's all fine and dandy

[armaghniac]

Quinn's companies and employees generated an annual tax of over €300 million for the Irish Exchequer.

Why would Quinn Health, for instance, generate less tax now?

[rrhf]

 Admit it... You guys took it lieing down when your government signed over the country to eternal indebtedness.  You done feck all but grumble meekly. Where was the anger then? Now as you realise What went on don't make revolutionary idealists out of yourselves. Your passiveness to those you elected and their reactive decision making was staggering.

[Tubberman]

Admit it... You guys took it lieing down when your government signed over the country to eternal indebtedness.  You done feck all but grumble meekly. Where was the anger then? Now as you realise What went on don't make revolutionary idealists out of yourselves. Your passiveness to those you elected and their reactive decision making was staggering.

Do I sense a north v south thing going on here?

[sammymaguire]

Quinn's companies and employees generated an annual tax of over €300 million for the Irish Exchequer.

Why would Quinn Health, for instance, generate less tax now?

Who said it would? But mud sticks.

[armaghniac]

SQ interview with Vincent Browne on TV3 now.

[CiKe]

No TYP. You are missing what happened. Quinn never bought the shares in Anglo that led to the big loss. He bought a margin in a trade. If the shares went up he was paid the margin. If the shares went down he forked over his loss to the middle man.

The 2.x bn did end up in someone's pocket(s). Literally.

But whos?

The middle man didn't win directly as he would be hedged. Let's say 5:1 leverage, I'm a bank, you give me EUR20 to take EUR100 long exposure to Anglo. I go and buy the EUR100 in the market and sell you the CFD with a given maturity which reflects my cost of funding that EUR100 e.g let's say is 6month trade, 5% interest rates and no dividends involved, then strike of the CFD is 100*(1+5%/2) = EUR102.5.

If stock goes up 1% I make 1% on the shares but I owe you 1% on the derivative. In theory given i have your EUR20 upfront as long as the shares are above EUR80 then I don't lose any money on the trade, but reality would be that under a Credit Support Annex there would be periodic posting of margin (from me to you if stock went up and form you to me if it went down).

How long he spent building this up and with what bank I don't know but the bank would have made:

i) commissions on the share activity charging SQ more than it cost them to buy them and also charging commissions to clients who wanted to sell their shares
ii) they would take a little margin on rates/dividends priced into the CFD

They would not however make anywhere close to the full notional amount - that has effectively been made if you like by the guys who sold the shares to the bank that was hedging the CFD. Some of these will have been guys cutting losses on long positions and others will have been short sellers I imagine - including possibly prop desks of banks, maybe even of the bank hedging the CFD though that would give rise to massive internal conflict of interest, doubtful whether would be approved or not.

[haranguerer]

Declan. It's depressing but there is no chance of pro Quinn people here changing minds no matter what articles are reposted here.

Some interesting letters in today's Irish Times but they probably are all written by closet Dublin 4 rugby loving loafer wearing liberals who hate the GAA and culchies!

SS, the article that you were responding to would surely be a case of what the f**k are the administrators at, rather than 'see what else quinn has done!'. Why did they take over quinn insurance? Because it was under provisioning the reserves I thought? So they knew this, and the full extent when they said 'we'll need no money, that levy for a few years will do', a year or two later they're looking 1.3 bn!! How to f**k did that happen?? Theres no new evidence, they're clearly a bunch of useless c***ts who are f**king the whole thing up. Its great for them, anglo, and the irish governemnt that they can all just say 'quinn', and everyone goes, 'that ****, aw well, no worries, not your fault then!'. Are you honestly not at all thinking 'hmm, somethgins not right there (and not on quinns behalf), when you read that article??