Quinn Insurance in Administration

[armaghniac]

But f**k that lets take Quinn's profitable enterprises and shove the blame on him when corrupt and inept administrators are given the reins.

Quinn was as inept in the end as any administrator and his concealment of assets is corrupt.

[deiseach]

Quinn talks about his company in the past tense, saying it WAS making...4,5,6, hundred million a year.

The article talks about the losses in Quinn insurance in the present, irrelevant in disproving quinns statement. It then admits the numbers were healthy, and laughably trys to pour scorn on his remarks by saying in 2007 the companies made cash earnings of 492 million. I think its probably acceptable for someone to round that up to 500, so even without taking into account other ways in which a company could be deemed to be making money (property prices, share increases etc), its not exactly the ridiculous statement the article trys to paint.

And you accuse the article of using spin! The losses the company is suffering now are an inevitable consequence of Quinn slashing prices to maximise market share. Forget about Anglo. Even if he hadn't put a penny into Anglo, we'd all still be paying for his folly through the insurance levy. Quinn Insurance an "extremely valuable company"? Lie.

The piece about him accepting the regulator, and using quotes from 2010 to show how his opinion has changed is also spun in the worst possible way. Rather than seeing him as having reflected and accepted certain decisions which clearly were emotive in the immmediate aftermath as being a positive thing, they use it to portray him as a liar.

The quotes refer to events in 2010 but they are from the Irish Daily Mail on July 22nd 2012. Seán Quinn being okay with the regulator sacking him and his family? Lie.

With regard to him not being responsible for the overall losses in the banking system - he wasnt. There were losses in the banking system all over the world. Quinn was not responsible. The reason quinn got in trouble with anglo is because of these losses, the share price was falling like a stone which fucked him up. He was not responsible for this share price drop.

Seán Quinn has to take his share of the responsibility, he made a colossal punt on the shares of an Irish bank and was in cahoots with the bandits who tried to cover it up. No responsibility at all? Lie.

With regard to the group owing the 2.8bn, that much is true (awaiting the leagality beign confirmed of course). With regard to what personal gaurantees were backing this up, that remains to be seen.

Did you not read Peter Kelly's judgement on the guarantees given by Seán Quinn? It has already been determined that he gave personal guarantees and Anglo/IBRC were entitled to pursue them. To say otherwise? Lie.

With regard to what was said to Dunne, it appears the issue the paper have is with the timing of when they told the court what quinn says he did, presumably they believe it contradicts the word 'straight' in his comments. Pedantic spin.

Nothing of the sort. He denied it right up until the point when the judgement was handed down against him. Nothing wrong with that in itself, a man is entitled to advance a defence. But to then claim he always told it "exactly as it was"? Lie.

And he will continue to lie because he's a liar.

[Aaron Boone]

Are all those factories in Teemore/Ballyconnell still working and going good? If so, folks are still getting their wages.

[Tony Baloney]

Read what I said. I said - 'Which was why I corrected your suggestion about his children's school and asked for evidence of other dog fights he and Big Joe were in and also the suggestion that Quinn might have been calling in favours. I specifically linked you to the comments about his children's school not the dogfight or the calling in favours issue. I also specifically linked you to the mileage issue - So what exactly did you mean and what were you suggesting when you asked 'What is the mileage rate in Quinn's?'

Somebody has their knickers in a twist tonight. The mileage thing was a lame joke about GAA men liking their mileage paid! What else would it be?! 

[haranguerer]

Deisach, So was the group making 4,5,6 hundred million a year? Yes or no? You've isolated Q ins, its the quinns claims about the group the article are trying to scorn. There are no inevitable losses - the group was very healthy.

If quinn had never put a penny into anglo, quinn insurance would have been sorted out.

It refers to remarks he made in 2010, he has now revised his opinion in july 2012. Have you never thought differently about something after you;ve had time to reflect and change your opinion? If you did would you consider it fair to be called a liar becuase your opinion has changed?

Why was the bank in trouble? Because the share price fell massively. Was SQ responsible for the losses? No. Anglo was the most exposed bank in the market - it was ran by cowboys. It was never going to escape the recession, it lent money that never should have been lent, and I'm not talking about SQ, other loans that every other bank thought far too risky. Other banks who were less exposed collapsed, anglo was fucked, and that wasnt quinns fault. quinns massive gamble and massive stake speeded the demise, but he wasnt responsible for the overall losses in the banking system, as he says, and as the article trys to scorn. Who was the Quinn in northern rock, the icelandic banks, rbs, etc etc etc, if his involvement was the only reason for the collapse of anglo??

And of course theres some bias in my post. My entire point is that theres a lot of bias in that article. It is pedantic and spun, and some of my post is. Like all with this case, the truth is somewhere in between, I believe its closer to my view, but I dont have a soapbox the size of the southern medias to get that across, unfortunately noone seems to be looking objectively at those articles.

[deiseach]

And of course theres some bias in my post. My entire point is that theres a lot of bias in that article. It is pedantic and spun, and some of my post is. Like all with this case, the truth is somewhere in between, I believe its closer to my view, but I dont have a soapbox the size of the southern medias to get that across, unfortunately noone seems to be looking objectively at those articles.

You admit to being biased. Why would the Irish Times be biased? Proper reasons please, no "the D4 meeja hate the culchies"

[Dougal Maguire]

Read what I said. I said - 'Which was why I corrected your suggestion about his children's school and asked for evidence of other dog fights he and Big Joe were in and also the suggestion that Quinn might have been calling in favours. I specifically linked you to the comments about his children's school not the dogfight or the calling in favours issue. I also specifically linked you to the mileage issue - So what exactly did you mean and what were you suggesting when you asked 'What is the mileage rate in Quinn's?'

Somebody has their knickers in a twist tonight. The mileage thing was a lame joke about GAA men liking their mileage paid! What else would it be?! 

No problem. Thanks for clearing it up.

[trileacman]

Are all those factories in Teemore/Ballyconnell still working and going good? If so, folks are still getting their wages.

Yeah the local workers are still in a job, my neighbour works in the glass factory and he says it's now pretty common knowledge that the new management does not intend upon renewing the furnace at the glass factory in 5-8 years time. The reasoning being a commercial glass factory is not feasible in a backwater like Cavan/Fermanagh and cannot compete with larger operations on the continent and those based in large commercial centres like London or those cities with a coastal border or rail network (Cork/Dublin).

[Declan]

Quinn Insurance €1.6bn liability 'truly shocking'

AODHÁN Ó'FAOLÁIN

THE PRESIDENT of the High Court has described as "truly shocking" the revelation that €1.65 billion may be required from the Insurance Compensation Fund to meet claims and costs arising from the administration of Quinn Insurance.

Mr Justice Nicholas Kearns has sought the "clearest of explanations" for this information and has directed he be given it next week. It would be helpful if somebody from the Central Bank, which is responsible for regulating the insurance industry, also attended court then, he added.

He noted the court was originally told no funds would be required from the fund, then was told last October monies would be required from the fund and the cost of the administration would be approximately €738 million, a figure later increased to €775 million.

Now, in the space of a few months, the amount being sought from the fund "had more than doubled", the judge said. The net effect is that the Government levy imposed on motor and home policyholders will last "in perpetuity" and not for a limited number of years as originally envisaged by the Government, he noted.

As this involved public monies, the increased demand on the fund was something that required "the clearest of explanations" in "an open and transparent manner", he said.

The Government introduced a mandatory 2 per cent levy on policies this year, except health insurance, offered by all insurers to meet claims and costs arising from the Quinn Insurance administration. It was anticipated the levy would be imposed for 12 years.

The judge made his comments yesterday after receiving the latest report of the joint administrators appointed to Quinn Insurance by the Financial Regulator in 2010.

Lawyers for the administrators, Michael McAteer and Paul McCann, said a number of factors had led to the increase in the amount being sought from the Insurance Compensation Fund, including an increased and more pessimistic provision for claims, the Euro weakening against sterling and the reduced value of Quinn Insurance investments in assets, including property assets.

Bernard Dunleavy, for the administrators, said the figure was "an absolute ceiling" and based on a worst case situation. The actual level of drawdown was expected to be somewhere between €1.1 billion and €1.3 billion, he added.

Counsel agreed with the judge that the levy on policies would last longer than planned. Before the administrators took over the business, there had been a culture in Quinn Insurance, particularly in the UK, of under-provisioning the reserves needed for claims and the administrators were adopting a more prudent approach, he said.

Counsel said all matters in the report had been put before Minister for Finance Michael Noonan, who would continue to provide funding through the fund so Quinn can meet its costs. Counsel said Mr McAteer was willing to give evidence to answer any questions the court had.

The judge said he was adjourning to next Tuesday so all matter can be explained.

Previously, the court was told the fund payment is part of the deal under which Quinn Insurance was transferred to US company Liberty Mutual and Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly Anglo Irish Bank.

[Shamrock Shore]

Declan. It's depressing but there is no chance of pro Quinn people here changing minds no matter what articles are reposted here.

Some interesting letters in today's Irish Times but they probably are all written by closet Dublin 4 rugby loving loafer wearing liberals who hate the GAA and culchies!

[Declan]

Declan. It's depressing but there is no chance of pro Quinn people here changing minds no matter what articles are reposted here.

Some interesting letters in today's Irish Times but they probably are all written by closet Dublin 4 rugby loving loafer wearing liberals who hate the GAA and culchies!

You're probably right SS. Listening to the debate between Burns and O'Toole last night I thought the most interesting aspect was when O'Toole said what surprised and shocked him and really what he was trying to find out was why decent, moral, law abiding citizens who have done a huge amount of good in the country and community like Harte, Darcy, Burns etc could justify their defence of Quinn when Quinn himself admitted that the 455 million was owed to the Irish people and that he was doing everything in his power to keep it from us by defying a court order. He just couldn't square that circle and Burns was stumped except to retreat to the standard position of that Quinn is basically a simple hard working man who created loads of jobs etc.
None so blind as those who cannot see I suppose

[rrhf]

Or those who choose to not see.   
Mickey Harte is a much more respectful, clean living, god fearing, wiser and better man than many on here and many writing on this topic.   Without being disrespectful to your most valued thoughts, If you guys dont mind Ill take my lead from Mickey on this. 

[LeoMc]

Or those who choose to not see.   
Mickey Harte is a much more respectful, clean living, god fearing, wiser and better man than many on here and many writing on this topic.   Without being disrespectful to your most valued thoughts, If you guys dont mind Ill take my lead from Mickey on this.

What is your opinion on the legalities of this situation or do you need to check what Mickey says first?

[Rossfan]

Or those who choose to not see.   
Mickey Harte is a much more respectful, clean living, god fearing, wiser and better man than many on here and many writing on this topic.   Without being disrespectful to your most valued thoughts, If you guys dont mind Ill take my lead from Mickey on this.

What a pity the fcukin Quinns wouldn't be as clean living as Micky then.
Will Micky stump up the €4Bn that the Quinns are costing the people of the 26 Cos?
Easy to love the Quinns if you live in the 6 Cos. and haven't to pay for their depredations 
Will Micky pay for the operations etc that will be put on long term hold because of his friends the Quinns?
Maybe he will pay for the Funerals of the people who will die on waiting lists or in ambulances because of the cuts that will be imposed to pay for the Quinns?
Maybe Micky and the rest might just look in the mirror and examine their "god fearing" consciences ?

[Shamrock Shore]

RRHF

I've scratched my head reading some posts on here but, in fairness, yours simply is unbelievable.

I have great respect for Mickey Harte, but I prefer to take my information from seasoned business analysts, court analysts, political analysts in print, radio and tv and from people I know for years whom I have sat down with over a few pints who know the inside track and who have filled me in on the bits that isn't/cannot be reported.