Quinn Insurance in Administration

[haranguerer]

This is an excellent piece btw: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2012/quinn-claims/index.pdf

Thanks for posting that. Ample evidence that Seán Quinn is a bare-faced liar whose assurances are utterly worthless

And theres no spin on the article??? One example of the lies they try to portray quinn as having told: '

QUinn says anglo or the irbc removed his family from their roles....(long winded filling) in fact, it was the share receiver appointed by irbc who removed the family'  Hmmm......

[Maguire01]

This is an excellent piece btw: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2012/quinn-claims/index.pdf

Thanks for posting that. Ample evidence that Seán Quinn is a bare-faced liar whose assurances are utterly worthless

And theres no spin on the article??? One example of the lies they try to portray quinn as having told: '

QUinn says anglo or the irbc removed his family from their roles....(long winded filling) in fact, it was the share receiver appointed by irbc who removed the family'  Hmmm......

What about the rest?

[deiseach]

And theres no spin on the article??? One example of the lies they try to portray quinn as having told: '

QUinn says anglo or the irbc removed his family from their roles....(long winded filling) in fact, it was the share receiver appointed by irbc who removed the family'  Hmmm......

What's factually incorrect about that? Why should we believe anything Seán Quinn says after reading the article?

[seafoid]

Sean Quinn Snr has no creditabilty in my opinion.

Neither do the two boyos that are/should be in jail.

Jarlath Burns has no right to refer to "the GAA community" if he said as much. Who died and made him President?

I see now Quinn Ins needs 1.6bn. More taxes on me and my family. Wait, is this the Quinn Ins that was to pay back all this money before the nasty Mr Elderfield stepped in......right. Oh wait, did the new Administrators run it into the ground in such a short space of time.

They must have.

They couldn't run an insurance company and they didn't understand finance. And the citizens have to pay for it all.

[Main Street]

What are the facts in the Sean Quinn case?

By Jim Fitzpatrick
BBC NI economics and business editor


Here are some key facts:

Sean Quinn didn't invest in Anglo Irish Bank, he bet on it
If all he'd done was buy shares, his losses would have been limited.

But Sean Quinn chose a dangerous financial instrument called Contracts for Difference (CFDs) to build up a 25% stake in Anglo Irish Bank.

It was a leveraged bet on the share price - if it his bet had come good, he would have made billions, but because it went bad he lost more than five times his initial huge stake.

He literally bet the bank and both bank and Quinn went down. His losses totalled more than 3.2bn euros at the end, with Anglo on the hook for 2.8bn euros.

Anglo didn't encourage Sean Quinn money to build this stake
Anglo Irish Bank was horrified when it discovered the scale of Sean Quinn's stake because they knew they could both go down if the full story was public.

It was a fatal embrace. The reason some directors of Anglo now face criminal charges is because of money lent to unwind and offload Sean Quinn's bet.

Even Sean Quinn has never publicly suggested that Anglo wanted him to build a 25% stake through CFDs in the bank.

Sean Quinn broke the law before the bank moved in
Sean Quinn was removed from his insurance business by the regulator because he had broken the law.

He had used funds from his insurance business to prop up other parts of the group. It was a serious offence.

The regulator eventually put the entire business into administration because he found the Quinn management were still breaking the rules and there was a massive black hole in the finances. This happened a year before Anglo moved to take control of the rest of the empire.

Sean Quinn now accepts that the actions of the regulator were "right and proper".

Meanwhile all insurance policies in the Republic are now subject to a 2% levy indefinitely to fill the financial hole found in Quinn Insurance.

The family had no viable plan to pay back the money
Once the insurance business was taken from family control, their offer to repay the 2.8 billion euros owed went up in smoke.

The fact that their plan relied upon cash from the insurance arm was not reassuring to a regulator who'd found that they had repeatedly broken the rules not to use money from the regulated business to support the rest of the group.

That's a good article by Fitzpatrick.

How much money was lent by Anglo  "to unwind and offload Sean Quinn's bet"?
€2.8bn?

Why was Quinn's 25% share deemed horrifying by Anglo?  was that due to the dodgy reckless nature of the share purchase?
How come Anglo were in the dark about Quinn's share purchase?

[haranguerer]

This is an excellent piece btw: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2012/quinn-claims/index.pdf

Thanks for posting that. Ample evidence that Seán Quinn is a bare-faced liar whose assurances are utterly worthless

And theres no spin on the article??? One example of the lies they try to portray quinn as having told: '

QUinn says anglo or the irbc removed his family from their roles....(long winded filling) in fact, it was the share receiver appointed by irbc who removed the family'  Hmmm......

What about the rest?

Quinn talks about his company in the past tense, saying it WAS making...4,5,6, hundred million a year.

The article talks about the losses in Quinn insurance in the present, irrelevant in disproving quinns statement. It then admits the numbers were healthy, and laughably trys to pour scorn on his remarks by saying in 2007 the companies made cash earnings of 492 million. I think its probably acceptable for someone to round that up to 500, so even without taking into account other ways in which a company could be deemed to be making money (property prices, share increases etc), its not exactly the ridiculous statement the article trys to paint.

The piece about him accepting the regulator, and using quotes from 2010 to show how his opinion has changed is also spun in the worst possible way. Rather than seeing him as having reflected and accepted certain decisions which clearly were emotive in the immmediate aftermath as being a positive thing, they use it to portray him as a liar.

With regard to him not being responsible for the overall losses in the banking system - he wasnt. There were losses in the banking system all over the world. Quinn was not responsible. The reason quinn got in trouble with anglo is because of these losses, the share price was falling like a stone which fucked him up. He was not responsible for this share price drop.

With regard to the group owing the 2.8bn, that much is true (awaiting the leagality beign confirmed of course). With regard to what personal gaurantees were backing this up, that remains to be seen.

With regard to what was said to Dunne, it appears the issue the paper have is with the timing of when they told the court what quinn says he did, presumably they believe it contradicts the word 'straight' in his comments. Pedantic spin.

[haranguerer]

And theres no spin on the article??? One example of the lies they try to portray quinn as having told: '

QUinn says anglo or the irbc removed his family from their roles....(long winded filling) in fact, it was the share receiver appointed by irbc who removed the family'  Hmmm......

What's factually incorrect about that? Why should we believe anything Seán Quinn says after reading the article?

Theres a lot of spin on it. Whats factually incorrect about for e.g. quinn saying the family never borrowed money?

[Dougal Maguire]

Dougal, ask the Chairman what sees in that article that is worth defending.

No because I don't support his support for the Quinns. Read what I said. I said I'd defend him when there's something to defend which was why I corrected your suggestion about his children's school and asked for evidence of other dog fights he and Big Joe were in and also the suggestion that Quinn might have been calling in favours. I never cease to be amazed at how people are prepared to come out with statements and innuendo without a single thread of evidence. So what exactly did you mean and what were you suggesting when you asked 'What is the mileage rate in Quinn's?'

[Tony Baloney]

This is an excellent piece btw: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2012/quinn-claims/index.pdf

Thanks for posting that. Ample evidence that Seán Quinn is a bare-faced liar whose assurances are utterly worthless

And theres no spin on the article??? One example of the lies they try to portray quinn as having told: '

QUinn says anglo or the irbc removed his family from their roles....(long winded filling) in fact, it was the share receiver appointed by irbc who removed the family'  Hmmm......

What about the rest?

Quinn talks about his company in the past tense, saying it WAS making...4,5,6, hundred million a year.

The article talks about the losses in Quinn insurance in the present, irrelevant in disproving quinns statement. It then admits the numbers were healthy, and laughably trys to pour scorn on his remarks by saying in 2007 the companies made cash earnings of 492 million. I think its probably acceptable for someone to round that up to 500, so even without taking into account other ways in which a company could be deemed to be making money (property prices, share increases etc), its not exactly the ridiculous statement the article trys to paint.

The piece about him accepting the regulator, and using quotes from 2010 to show how his opinion has changed is also spun in the worst possible way. Rather than seeing him as having reflected and accepted certain decisions which clearly were emotive in the immmediate aftermath as being a positive thing, they use it to portray him as a liar.

With regard to him not being responsible for the overall losses in the banking system - he wasnt. There were losses in the banking system all over the world. Quinn was not responsible. The reason quinn got in trouble with anglo is because of these losses, the share price was falling like a stone which fucked him up. He was not responsible for this share price drop.

With regard to the group owing the 2.8bn, that much is true (awaiting the leagality beign confirmed of course). With regard to what personal gaurantees were backing this up, that remains to be seen.

With regard to what was said to Dunne, it appears the issue the paper have is with the timing of when they told the court what quinn says he did, presumably they believe it contradicts the word 'straight' in his comments. Pedantic spin.

Big of you to admit that   

[Tony Baloney]

Dougal, ask the Chairman what sees in that article that is worth defending.

No because I don't support his support for the Quinns. Read what I said. I said I'd defend him when there's something to defend which was why I corrected your suggestion about his children's school and asked for evidence of other dog fights he and Big Joe were in and also the suggestion that Quinn might have been calling in favours. I never cease to be amazed at how people are prepared to come out with statements and innuendo without a single thread of evidence. So what exactly did you mean and what were you suggesting when you asked 'What is the mileage rate in Quinn's?'

I never said he was at any dogfight. Getting your posters mixed up sir.

[haranguerer]

I'll accept that Tony, but you have to see its working both ways. I genuinely thought, given the bits of praise there were for the article that it might be a compelling piece, but was genuinely surprised to see such amateurish shite (altho less amaterish than my riposte, but at least I have the excuse of actually being an amateur  )

[Tony Baloney]

I'll accept that Tony, but you have to see its working both ways. I genuinely thought, given the bits of praise there were for the article that it might be a compelling piece, but was genuinely surprised to see such amateurish shite (altho less amaterish than my riposte, but at least I have the excuse of actually being an amateur  )

Right I'm away for some Olympics action. Enjoy!

[LeoMc]

What are the facts in the Sean Quinn case?

By Jim Fitzpatrick
BBC NI economics and business editor


Here are some key facts:

Sean Quinn didn't invest in Anglo Irish Bank, he bet on it
If all he'd done was buy shares, his losses would have been limited.

But Sean Quinn chose a dangerous financial instrument called Contracts for Difference (CFDs) to build up a 25% stake in Anglo Irish Bank.

It was a leveraged bet on the share price - if it his bet had come good, he would have made billions, but because it went bad he lost more than five times his initial huge stake.

He literally bet the bank and both bank and Quinn went down. His losses totalled more than 3.2bn euros at the end, with Anglo on the hook for 2.8bn euros.

Anglo didn't encourage Sean Quinn money to build this stake
Anglo Irish Bank was horrified when it discovered the scale of Sean Quinn's stake because they knew they could both go down if the full story was public.

It was a fatal embrace. The reason some directors of Anglo now face criminal charges is because of money lent to unwind and offload Sean Quinn's bet.

Even Sean Quinn has never publicly suggested that Anglo wanted him to build a 25% stake through CFDs in the bank.

Sean Quinn broke the law before the bank moved in
Sean Quinn was removed from his insurance business by the regulator because he had broken the law.

He had used funds from his insurance business to prop up other parts of the group. It was a serious offence.

The regulator eventually put the entire business into administration because he found the Quinn management were still breaking the rules and there was a massive black hole in the finances. This happened a year before Anglo moved to take control of the rest of the empire.

Sean Quinn now accepts that the actions of the regulator were "right and proper".

Meanwhile all insurance policies in the Republic are now subject to a 2% levy indefinitely to fill the financial hole found in Quinn Insurance.

The family had no viable plan to pay back the money
Once the insurance business was taken from family control, their offer to repay the 2.8 billion euros owed went up in smoke.

The fact that their plan relied upon cash from the insurance arm was not reassuring to a regulator who'd found that they had repeatedly broken the rules not to use money from the regulated business to support the rest of the group.

That's a good article by Fitzpatrick.

How much money was lent by Anglo  "to unwind and offload Sean Quinn's bet"?
€2.8bn?   

Why was Quinn's 25% share deemed horrifying by Anglo?  was that due to the dodgy reckless nature of the share purchase?
How come Anglo were in the dark about Quinn's share purchase?

€450m.
Anglo weren't aware as he was using CFD s, essentially promises tom buy the shares.
They were probably horrified as the books would have to be opened up.

[trileacman]

Sean Quinn Snr has no creditabilty in my opinion.

Neither do the two boyos that are/should be in jail.

Jarlath Burns has no right to refer to "the GAA community" if he said as much. Who died and made him President?

I see now Quinn Ins needs 1.6bn. More taxes on me and my family. Wait, is this the Quinn Ins that was to pay back all this money before the nasty Mr Elderfield stepped in......right. Oh wait, did the new Administrators run it into the ground in such a short space of time.

They must have.

They couldn't run an insurance company and they didn't understand finance. And the citizens have to pay for it all.

He ran it well enough for something like 12 insurance companies to come looking to buy it as soon as the administrators showed up. Now they've made a balls of it and the taxpayer has to pay for it. But f**k that lets take Quinn's profitable enterprises and shove the blame on him when corrupt and inept administrators are given the reins. It's a pity that's such working class crusaders such as yourself can't see the wood for the trees. No wonder the Irish get fucked over so much.

[Dougal Maguire]

Read what I said. I said - 'Which was why I corrected your suggestion about his children's school and asked for evidence of other dog fights he and Big Joe were in and also the suggestion that Quinn might have been calling in favours. I specifically linked you to the comments about his children's school not the dogfight or the calling in favours issue. I also specifically linked you to the mileage issue - So what exactly did you mean and what were you suggesting when you asked 'What is the mileage rate in Quinn's?'