Quinn Insurance in Administration

[supersarsfields]

Struth! Is that the best you can come up with? The government are right, regardless,

People who do not repay loans are ultimately attempting to cheat depositors in banks. The government are acting to stop this.

If a bank lent money illegally to support it's share price, then tried to get retrospective security on these loans when they  realised the Sh!te they were in, then  they are in no position to try and inforce these loans. And the fact that the state is allowing it to happen is worse.

[supersarsfields]

Are the Courts looking to freeze or seize assets?

I think they are freezing the assets and accounts at the minute. But I think it's just a prelude to seizing.

[sammymaguire]

Do you understand what's actually going on armaghniac? Would you pay 50k for a Renault that wouldnt pass an MOT if you actually thought you were buying a Merc?? And it was the Renault garage who financed it for you?

Would you pay £1 for an own brand (that was off) if you thought you were getting a Premium label, and you borrowed the money from Tesco to actually own it.

Now your job is gone too cos you were late for work by the way, so we actually want everything you have even though you may have wanted to pay us.

Are you gonna hand over all the cash you have under your mattress?

I'd love to hear what armaghniac, deiseach or any other detractors would do in this situation?? feel free to respond any time you think of any sort of appropriate response... The Quinn Empire paid over £1bn in taxes to the Irish Exchequer and they have basically wanted to take it over once things started going tits up. When everything wasn't squeaky clean with the figures, they went for the jugular! Ever since then, its been a witch hunt after everything they have. If this kind of thing happened in Zimbabwe the UN would be up in arms   

As for Peter "Darragh" Quinn... Hopefully the fella is ok, as I dont think there are too many who know of his whereabouts but going on the run is certainly not the thing to do. Stand up and face the music.

[glens abu]

Do you understand what's actually going on armaghniac? Would you pay 50k for a Renault that wouldnt pass an MOT if you actually thought you were buying a Merc?? And it was the Renault garage who financed it for you?

Would you pay £1 for an own brand (that was off) if you thought you were getting a Premium label, and you borrowed the money from Tesco to actually own it.

Now your job is gone too cos you were late for work by the way, so we actually want everything you have even though you may have wanted to pay us.

Are you gonna hand over all the cash you have under your mattress?

I'd love to hear what armaghniac, deiseach or any other detractors would do in this situation?? feel free to respond any time you think of any sort of appropriate response... The Quinn Empire paid over £1bn in taxes to the Irish Exchequer and they have basically wanted to take it over once things started going tits up. When everything wasn't squeaky clean with the figures, they went for the jugular! Ever since then, its been a witch hunt after everything they have. If this kind of thing happened in Zimbabwe the UN would be up in arms   

As for Peter "Darragh" Quinn... Hopefully the fella is ok, as I dont think there are too many who know of his whereabouts but going on the run is certainly not the thing to do. Stand up and face the music.

Many a good man has went on the run,and lived to FIGHT another day

[deiseach]

If this kind of thing happened in Zimbabwe the UN would be up in arms   

Statements like this remind me of this maxim: never argue with a fool, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you on experience

[screenexile]

Do you understand what's actually going on armaghniac? Would you pay 50k for a Renault that wouldnt pass an MOT if you actually thought you were buying a Merc?? And it was the Renault garage who financed it for you?

Would you pay £1 for an own brand (that was off) if you thought you were getting a Premium label, and you borrowed the money from Tesco to actually own it.

Now your job is gone too cos you were late for work by the way, so we actually want everything you have even though you may have wanted to pay us.

Are you gonna hand over all the cash you have under your mattress?

I'd love to hear what armaghniac, deiseach or any other detractors would do in this situation?? feel free to respond any time you think of any sort of appropriate response... The Quinn Empire paid over £1bn in taxes to the Irish Exchequer and they have basically wanted to take it over once things started going tits up. When everything wasn't squeaky clean with the figures, they went for the jugular! Ever since then, its been a witch hunt after everything they have. If this kind of thing happened in Zimbabwe the UN would be up in arms   

As for Peter "Darragh" Quinn... Hopefully the fella is ok, as I dont think there are too many who know of his whereabouts but going on the run is certainly not the thing to do. Stand up and face the music.

Surely Sean Quinn has to take some kind of blame for the situation? 

He borrowed money from Anglo to buy more Anglo shares therefore increasing his ownership of the bank and pushing the value of his shares up, now I'm guessing he knew exactly what he was doing as he was the one borrowing the money and the one buying the shares. My knowledge of shares is limited but even I know that what he did there is not right at all. I would imagine he planned to sell them to make a tidy profit while also paying the loans back but the bubble burst before he could. Sean Fitz and others in Anglo would seem to be complicit in this is fine but surely they are both to blame?

Along with that the fact that he fcuked money around his different businesses as it suited him and ultimately messed up the insurance arm. Whether or not it was right for them to be pushed into Administration the bottom line is the rules are there for all Insurance companies, everyone has to abide by them and Quinn broke them AGAIN!

Just because he paid taxes and and created jobs doesn't mean he gets to play fast and loose with these things. It says a lot that deregulation has been the buzz word of the last 10-15 years yet Quinn managed to breach the regulations on 2 clear occasions.

This is all before we even get to the contempt issue. Did the Quinn's not say they would pay off the debt they owed yet now are all being held in contempt for putting assets beyond the reach of IBRC?

The whole thing is an awful mess and it seems pretty clear cut that Quinn has beenat the heart of the financial and moral bankruptcy that has gone on here. Of course it's sad for those who have lost their livelihoods but there are a number of people to blame for it and unfortunately Sean Quinn is one of them!

[sammymaguire]

If this kind of thing happened in Zimbabwe the UN would be up in arms   

Statements like this remind me of this maxim: never argue with a fool, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you on experience

what do you think was the funny eyes and tongue all about? get down of your pedestal you plank

[sammymaguire]

He borrowed money from Anglo (which was an ILLEGAL LOAN and Seanie Fitz and the boys knew that)  to buy more Anglo shares (thinking it was a good investment after the bullshit he was spun regarding the profitability and performance of a pungent bank) therefore increasing his ownership of the bank and pushing the value of his shares up, now I'm guessing he knew exactly what he was doing (mistake he made was he thought he was dealing with genuine honest, professional bankers) as he was the one borrowing the money and the one buying the shares. My knowledge of shares is limited but even I know that what he did there is not right at all. I would imagine he planned to sell them to make a tidy profit (I reckon he wanted to take ownership of the bank, Quinn got into insurance when they could insurance the lorries themselves, I am sure they thought owning a bank was going to be an avenue for more riches) while also paying the loans back but the bubble burst before he could. Sean Fitz and others in Anglo would seem to be complicit in this is fine but surely they are both to blame? (Quinn publicly accepted his decision to buy the shares and offered to pay back loans over 7 years, this was rejected by the Irish government)

Along with that the fact that he fcuked money around his different businesses as it suited him (yes he was juggling around the money within his Group of companies and this was the catalyst for the downfall which the authorities went to town on) and ultimately messed up the insurance arm (even though if had as much equity as most of the other insurers at the time). Whether or not it was right for them to be pushed into Administration the bottom line is the rules are there for all Insurance companies, everyone has to abide by them and Quinn broke them AGAIN!

Just because he paid taxes and created jobs doesn't mean he gets to play fast and loose with these things (He almost immediately stepped down as Director, and took the fines on the chin). It says a lot that deregulation has been the buzz word of the last 10-15 years yet Quinn managed to breach the regulations on 2 clear occasions.

This is all before we even get to the contempt issue. Did the Quinn's not say they would pay off the debt they owed yet (Yes but the tools and ability to do this through the companies they own were taken off them, so how in the name of fcuk are they actually supposed to do it now?) now are all being held in contempt for putting assets beyond the reach of IBRC? (They have obviously reached the point of being fed up with being taken to the cleaners and getting totally wiped out)

The whole thing is an awful mess and it seems pretty clear cut that Quinn has been at the heart of the financial and moral bankruptcy (yes, Quinn has been the fall guy as he was fed a crock of shite and was sold down the river by the bankers. The Irish government stepped in as they wanted to protect the depositors, but have now spent millions chasing Quinns' fortunes to ease the financial burden, regardless of the fact the loans are in dispute) that has gone on here. Of course it's sad for those who have lost their livelihoods but there are a number of people to blame for it and unfortunately Sean Quinn is one of them! (What exactly has Quinn done wrong in relation to Anglo again?? Yes there were trading issues at QI but this didn't mean they had to pull the pin completely on them)

Would you reckon, IF the goverment had have given these guys a little bit more grace in getting their act together, they would have put everything right to everyone's sataisfaction in a given period, rather than how things have panned out as they are now?? The billions of euro that Anglo lost was not the fault of Sean Quinn, he was sold a dummy.

[supersarsfields]

Of course SQ will have to take some responsibility for his actions. and I've no doubt that is coming down the line as well. But there's a few factors that people here aren't dealing with.

1) He made an investment into a Financial organisation, who was regulated by the Financial regulator at the time, who were cooking their books to make the health of the bank look siqnificantly better than it was in reality. Does SQ not deserve some recourse against the bank and the regulator for this? At the end of the day had he known the real state the bank was in he would never have gotten to the level he was at.

2) SQ took his gamble on CFDs and lost everything he had. And I have no doubt that he would have been bankrupted because of it. But his family would still have control of the Group, and the company assets as they were all in the Kids names.  However he then took out the loans with Anglo to finance the CFDs. This is what lead us to where we are today. The Quinns are obviously saying Anglo were forcing them into it, personally I'd say SQ saw what he had lost already and when Anglo provided this option he took it on in the hope he could rescue some of it.  But as a regulated financial instution, Anglo should never have been providing that option And the fact that it looks increasly likely the state regulator at the time was also involved makes it worse. So considering this wrong doing how come Anglo are being allowed to enforce what are clearly illegal loans? And are being provided  complete coverage on this by the state.

^{Along with that the fact that he fcuked money around his different businesses as it suited him and ultimately messed up the insurance arm. Whether or not it was right for them to be pushed into Administration the bottom line is the rules are there for all Insurance companies, everyone has to abide by them and Quinn broke them AGAIN!}



VHI- a lot less solvency than QIL but they didn't hit the nuclear switch on them. Infact their solvency still hasn't been sorted but were allowed to work towards getting it to the correct level.


^{This is all before we even get to the contempt issue. Did the Quinn's not say they would pay off the debt they owed yet now are all being held in contempt for putting assets beyond the reach of IBRC?}



He said he would pay of the debt. The state and Anglo decided they could do things better and attempted a military style takeover. Considering Anglo made the decision not to work with the Quinns he has decided not to work with them. And the fact that Anglo thought they had everything boxed of before the take over and then realised they had made aballs of it is their own fault. Now the Quinns may have a legal recourse to get out of the loans. And if that is the case, then there's a whole lot to run on it yet 

[orangeman]

The Supreme Court is to hear an appeal by Seán Quinn Jnr against the findings of contempt against him and his committal to prison in early October.

Both Séan Quinn Jnr and Snr are appealing the contempt findingsLawyers for the Quinns asked the court this morning to give priority to the appeal by Mr Quinn Jnr.

Mr Quinn was sent to prison for three months last Friday for breaching court orders preventing him from interfering with assets of the Quinn International Property Group.

The three-month term is due to end on 20 October.

However, if the court is not satisfied that action has been taken to comply with court orders and reverse asset stripping of the International Property Group, Mr Quinn could remain in prison indefinitely.

Senior Counsel Bill Shipsey argued that Mr Quinn Jnr's contempt was a "minor matter" as he was accused of breaching court orders only in relation to one of three matters the court had to consider.

But Senior Counsel Shane Murphy for the IBRC said the High Court had found the contempt to be of the most serious kind.

Chief Justice Mrs Justice Susan Denham said the court would give the appeal priority and would fix a date in early October.

Mr Shipsey said the team of lawyers acting for the Quinns would not be acting for Peter Darragh Quinn from next Tuesday when the Commercial Court will hear an application by them to come off record.


Peter Darragh Quinn has not been in touch with his lawyers since the early hours of last Friday morning.

Mr Shipsey said he did not turn up in court "to the surprise of everyone".

Seán Quinn Snr is also appealing the contempt findings and orders against him but lawyers are not seeking priority for his appeal.

Mr Shipsey said his son's appeal was urgent as he was in prison.

[armaghniac]

es SQ not deserve some recourse against the bank and the regulator for this? At the end of the day had he known the real state the bank was in he would never have gotten to the level he was at.

A lot of people were mislead by banks. The ordinary Joe has a stronger case as he cannot be expected to deal with banks on any sort of even level. SQ was operating at a level where he could have sought any amount of professional advice. By his own admission he didn't bother to seek any legal advice.

So considering this wrong doing how come Anglo are being allowed to enforce what are clearly illegal loans?

I am not impressed by this illegal loan argument. What is the proposition here, that if the shares work out then you become mega rich, but that if they don't work out then the loan was illegal and you don't have to pay it back? A free bet, nice if you can get it. SQ knew perfectly well that the loan was suspect.

[screenexile]

"Illegal Loan" is a bit of a difficult term for me to swallow. What about the thousands who took out 100% mortgages, can they sue the banks coming after them for their assets because they really shouldn't have been lending them money they couldn' afford?

Sean Quinn is a serious guy and for him to play the "Oh I didn't know" card is not cutting it for me I'm sorry when there is that much money involved he's got a fair idea what he's getting himself involved in!

[supersarsfields]

The bank is under a legal obligation to provide SQ with legal representation.  Instead they actually seeked the Quinns to sign restospective legal documents trying to cover their own asses.

Whether you are impressed by the illegal loans arguement or not matters little. The fact is, it's given the Quinns an opportunity to contest the loans as illegally made loans can be deemed unenforcable. Call it a free bet if you wish. That's why the onus is on the financial instution to ensure all is correct and above board and if it isn't they can be taken to task on it much the same as mis-sold PPI has come back to bite banks on ass. And there's plenty of Joe soaps winning those cases. 

[supersarsfields]

"Illegal Loan" is a bit of a difficult term for me to swallow. What about the thousands who took out 100% mortgages, can they sue the banks coming after them for their assets because they really shouldn't have been lending them money they couldn' afford?

Sean Quinn is a serious guy and for him to play the "Oh I didn't know" card is not cutting it for me I'm sorry when there is that much money involved he's got a fair idea what he's getting himself involved in!

You're analogy on the illegal loans is a bit of the mark. Quinns aren't contesting the loans because they were lent money they couldn't afford ( You'll find a right % of the 2.8B will be covered by the assets Anglo have taken). They are contesting them because the lender was using the loans to prop up it's own market share. And now you think that after doing that, they should still be allow to reap the benefits of the loans? I'll disagree  on that, but each to their own.

[LeoMc]

"Illegal Loan" is a bit of a difficult term for me to swallow. What about the thousands who took out 100% mortgages, can they sue the banks coming after them for their assets because they really shouldn't have been lending them money they couldn' afford?

Sean Quinn is a serious guy and for him to play the "Oh I didn't know" card is not cutting it for me I'm sorry when there is that much money involved he's got a fair idea what he's getting himself involved in!

You're analogy on the illegal loans is a bit of the mark. Quinns aren't contesting the loans because they were lent money they couldn't afford ( You'll find a right % of the 2.8B will be covered by the assets Anglo have taken). They are contesting them because the lender was using the loans to prop up it's own market share. And now you think that after doing that, they should still be allow to reap the benefits of the loans? I'll disagree  on that, but each to their own.

The analogy may have been closer if 100% mortgages were been given out to maintain the property bubble.