Quinn Insurance in Administration

[muppet]

I would say that will more than likely follow alright if the judge allows the cases to go forward.

I think this trial may be prove to be very useful. The Quinns are taking a case that official Ireland has avoided to date. Lenihan refused to set up an enquiry at all (remember his 30 years comment?) at first, then he said any enquiry didn't need to examine the political handling of the crisis and then finally we had the limited (to be polite) Nyberg report. This may force a closer look at one of the more pungent events.

[supersarsfields]

That's if it's allowed to get to trial Muppet, althought I would find it hard to believe that the judge could refuse a full hearing into it considering the amount of doubt over how Anglo dealt with the loans. Haven't said that they were very surprised that the judge didn't allow the UK report to be submitted.

[muppet]

That's if it's allowed to get to trial Muppet, althought I would find it hard to believe that the judge could refuse a full hearing into it considering the amount of doubt over how Anglo dealt with the loans. Haven't said that they were very surprised that the judge didn't allow the UK report to be submitted.

The Quinn family commissioned the report

I am not the least bit surprised he didn't allow it. How could this be considered evidence?

Do you think you would be convinced by an equivalent 'report' commissioned by Anglo on behalf of Anglo?

[supersarsfields]

The reason he didn't allow it wasn't that it was commissioned by the Quinns. It was because he said that it was too detailed for this stage of the case. But that it could be used in the event of a full trial going ahead. So if the cases go ahead of course an expert report can be used as evidence regardless of who commissioned it. Anglo will obviously get the opportunity to dispute the report but I would say it'll definitely be a part of the Quinns claims.

[muppet]

The reason he didn't allow it wasn't that it was commissioned by the Quinns. It was because he said that it was too detailed for this stage of the case. But that it could be used in the event of a full trial going ahead. So if the cases go ahead of course an expert report can be used as evidence regardless of who commissioned it. Anglo will obviously get the opportunity to dispute the report but I would say it'll definitely be a part of the Quinns claims.

I would imagine they will bring in the expert testimony, rather than his report, thus allowing for cross-examination.

[muppet]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0903/1224303404970.html

[sammymaguire]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0903/1224303404970.html

Some of that is scary. The reality must have caused some seriously high blood pressure in those involved. The money spent on schmoozing and parties is ludicrous

[supersarsfields]

From RTE

<sup>The High Court has ruled that Seán Quinn's wife, Patricia, and the Quinns' five children are entitled to make arguments that the former Anglo Irish Bank breached Market Abuse Regulations and company legislation in its loans to the family in their action against the bank.

Mr Justice Peter Charleton was giving his ruling on a preliminary issue in the case being taken by the family. The Quinns allege that Anglo lent them more than €2 billion for the illegal purpose of propping up its own share price.

The judge said it would be contrary to public policy were the Quinns to be shut out from responding to the "flagrant illegality" they allege against Anglo and Seán Quinn.

He said if a series of financial transactions can be called "horrific" that epithet would apply to the allegations made by the Quinns against Anglo and Mr Quinn.

The main action being taken by the Quinns against the bank is due to be heard at a later date.

A Quinn family statement said they were very pleased with the outcome of today's judgment and welcomed the chance to present their case to the High Court in the fullest possible way.

IBRC, the former Anglo Irish Bank, said it would now go ahead with a full defence and counterclaim to the claims made by the Quinn family.

"IBRC, on behalf of the State, is seeking repayment in full of all outstanding monies due to it and believes there is no basis whatsoever to any of the claims being made by the Quinn family," it said.</sup>

[supersarsfields]

Sean Quinn, Sean Jr and Peter Quinn jr all up in court this week with regards to the contempt of court charges, with the possibility of looking at Jail time if things go badly.

[AQMP]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0330/1224314097321.html

A NEPHEW of bankrupt businessman Seán Quinn has told the High Court he knew nothing about a trust set up for the Quinn family, despite several signatures of his witnessing documents related to that trust.

He was in the habit of signing "bundles" of documents and while no one in the family had said anything to him about a trust, he "would not be surprised by anything" in the "debacle" between Anglo Irish Bank and the Quinns, Peter Darragh Quinn said.

Mr Quinn also said he did not know anything about what happened to a sum of $4.5 million (€3.4 million) moved between accounts of a Russian company of which he was the sole signatory.

No one, he said, was in "overall control" of steps taken in various international jurisdictions with a view to putting multimillion-euro assets of the Quinn international property group (IPG) beyond the reach of Anglo.

There was "no huge overall strategy"; it was "very much a fire-fighting thing" and actions taken were "reactive", in response to what Anglo did. If that led to court cases in every jurisdiction, "so be it", he added.

Mr Quinn said he was never involved at "a higher level" and had no involvement in court proceedings involving the Quinns in Cyprus and Sweden concerning Quinn companies.

The cross-examination of Mr Quinn, acting general manager of international property assets held by the Quinn Group from 2009, continued yesterday in the hearing before Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne of the bank's application for orders for attachment and committal against him, Seán Quinn snr and Seán Quinn jnr for alleged contempt.

The bank contends the three acted in contempt of court orders of June and July 2011 restraining dissipation of assets in the IPG. In denying those claims, they have argued various steps to place assets beyond Anglo's reach were carried out prior to the orders.

On his fourth day in the witness box yesterday, Peter Quinn agreed with senior counsel Paul Gallagher, for IBRC, that incorrect information was given by the Quinn side to a court in Cyprus when it granted injunctions sought by the family against the bank.

Mr Quinn stressed he himself was not involved in the Cyprus case and said Aoife Quinn had dealt with matters in proceedings in Cyprus and Sweden.

He agreed that, while the family had sought injunctions restraining changes in the structure and shareholdings of various Quinn companies, steps were taken by them in the days prior to the June 27th, 2011, Cyprus court hearing that altered shareholdings.

He agreed the Cyprus court was given incorrect information in an affidavit by Aoife Quinn concerning the May/June 2011 bankruptcy of a Russian company, Finansstroy (of which Mr Quinn was general director at the time). That was because Ms Quinn "misunderstood" a sequence of events related to that company, he said.

He agreed the Cyprus court was told various Russian companies in the IPG were wholly owned subsidiaries of Cyprus companies in the IPG when they were not, due to withdrawals of shareholdings allegedly signed by Aoife Quinn on June 20th, 2011, purportedly as a director of a Cypriot company in the IPG, Carcer Management Ltd. [The bank disputes that Ms Quinn was in fact a director].

When Mr Gallagher put to Mr Quinn that a sworn statement by him describing Finansstroy as a wholly owned subsidiary of Carcer was a lie if the withdrawal was executed by Aoife Quinn as alleged, Mr Quinn said the withdrawal was executed and his description of the status of Finansstroy was incorrect and a "material oversight" but not a lie.

Mr Gallagher also asked several questions in the context of the bank's claim of a systematic transfer of shares in various Russian companies in the IPG to offshore entities primarily registered in Belize and Panama.

Mr Quinn agreed, during a one-day trip by him to Dubai on June 20th, 2011, he discussed setting up off-shore companies in Belize and Panama as well as a possible trust structure for proposed new business ventures for the family.

The case continues

[Declan]

More good news from the family that keeps on giving

Policyholders face €1bn bill to cover cost of Quinn's UK losses

By Laura Noonan
Wednesday April 18 2012
THE collapse of Quinn Insurance could leave Irish policyholders footing a bill for close to €1bn -- well above the €600m initially expected -- the insurer's administrators have warned the Department of Finance.

The news means consumers face paying the 2pc "Quinn Insurance levy" on all general insurance policies for more than 15 years to cover the cost of Quinn's hefty losses in the UK.

The latest published figure for the black hole at Quinn Insurance Ltd (QIL) is €785m.

The Irish Independent has learned that administrators have submitted new figures to the Department of Finance providing for a demand of close to €1bn from the Insurance Compensation Fund (ICF).

Sources stressed that the ultimate call on the ICF may go down if the administrators raise more than they expect from the sale of assets left with QIL, including wind farms.

The ICF demand would also be reduced if the claims experience on the book of business left with QIL improves or if QIL mananges to recoup money from third parties.

The claims left with QIL mainly stem from UK professional indemnity, commercial and motor insurance business written by the Cavan insurer.

Some sources suggested the authorities had guided QIL to provision for a "greater level of confidence" on what its future claims could be, ultimately pushing up the provision level and estimated call on the ICF.

There has also been some deterioration in the claims experience of the policies left with QIL, particularly those issued between 2006 and 2008.

A spokesman for the Department of Finance declined to comment on the higher predicted costs, saying the level of provisioning was "a matter for the joint administrators to determine".

"Any draw down (from the ICF) is subject to approval from the High Court," he added.

QIL's joint administrators, Grant Thornton's Paul McCann and Michael McAteer, declined to comment.

The Government has already committed to temporarily funding the gap between the money QIL needs to pay imminent claims, since the defunct insurer will need money faster than the levy can raise it.

The higher overall cost is not expected to increase the demands on the State this year. This is because the increased provisions for claims largely relate to difficult "long-tailed" claims which are likely to take several years to settle.

When QIL first went into administration in March 2010, the insurer was expected to be able to honour all its claims without needing any money from outside sources. The prospect of an ICF call first emerged the following April.

The deterioration was blamed on a sharp worsening in the claims experience on UK professional indemnity insurance and commercial policies.

QIL founder Sean Quinn, who lost control of the company when regulators discovered QIL's assets had been used to guarantee €1.2bn of borrowings for other Quinn Group companies, described the ICF call as "an appalling admission" of the damage that had been caused to QIL.

- Laura Noonan

[haranguerer]

More good news from the family that keeps on giving

This black hole was created by the regulator

[seafoid]

More good news from the family that keeps on giving

This black hole was created by the regulator

The Quinns have shafted the people of Ireland . What's the cost per head of the Quinn meltdown? Say there are 4.5 million people in Ireland .

[thebigfella]

More good news from the family that keeps on giving

This black hole was created by the regulator

Sure it was, sure it was 

[supersarsfields]

Again Anglo are reluctant to provide more detailed information on why this was needed? They refused to provide the details when the Levy was first introduced and the need for the levy was contested, and they are still doing the same.
And there's barely been a word about the huge sweetener that was given to Liberty and the ridiculous sales process that ended up in Anglo giving away such a huge chunk of the profits for such small re numeration.
What might be more of a worry for the tax payer is that if the Quinn Children win their case regarding the illegal loans (and lets be honest things are kinda stacking up badly against Anglo at this stage when you take in to account Browns recent cases and the fact the children have been given legal standing to run the cases)then the tax payer could be looking at an additional bill for compensation to the Quinn family for a massive amount as well as losing control over the foreign assets and the Quinn Group.

And I believe things aren't going well with Anglo as regards to the Bond holders. The figures they promised when they were organising the takeover were missed by a long shot and now the bondholders are getting restless and some of the more prominent ones are looking immediate action to rectify the situation. And these include a few very Pro Quinn people. I can't see the current CEO of the group lasting another 6 months and I would imagine he won't be the last. And the company that organised the takeover, Grant Thorton, are also getting quite a bit of stick with regards the massive shortfall in the figures. 

A settlement should have been reached on this ages ago. The money that's being wasted on courts and solicitors is crazy and regardless of what happened to the Quinns getting into the mess (This doesn't release them from blame), what Anglo have done to get out of it is worse.

But don't be surprised if it all suddenly disappears as I don't believe Anglo will be allowed to let it run much farther and I can still see a deal coming of. But stable doors and horses spring to mind.