Quinn Insurance in Administration

[Mayo4Sam]

SS I think it's a flawed argument to say why would SQ want to take QIL if it wasn't making money. Firstly there are far greater apparently rhetorical questions such as well why would a business risk everything he owns on one share bet? And secondly I'd say to have power, everyone wants it and SQ prob believes 100% he could make a go again of QIL, sure he's done it before.

Both flawed arguments though

[supersarsfields]

No more flawed than believing what Anglo say regarding the figures of QIL when they weren't prepared to disclose it. Anglo were the only ones with all the information and could have blown SQ's allegations wide open but didn't.

People here are prepared to believe the state/ Anglo just because they say it and therefore are beyond reproach. I choose to take it with a huge pinch of salt because of the corruption that was rife between both ( and I would include SQ as he was no doubt involved but to me it looks like they decided to jettison him and use him as the fall guy). Proving either side without doubt would be tough, the only thing is that Anglo were the only ones in a position to do that and to date haven't. 

[Lone Shark]

Lone Shark, unless sarsfields is someone within senior management at the Quinn Group, how do you expect him or anyone else on here to have substantial figures and business proposals on how the business should and could have been run and rescued from this future abyss

Even I'd they we're, would it be likely to appear on a GAA forum?

I'm not asking for a detailed business plan here, but SS is asking us to ignore the national media, to take at face value the press releases of Sean Quinn who at best, has proven himself to be hugely naive in the world of finance with a spectacular feck up, and to assume that there is a national conspiracy going on extending into the justice system - all without any evidence whatsoever.

Something remotely concrete would be nice, is all I'm saying.

[supersarsfields]

I've given my answer above. Both CIB and the proposal from Quinns which as mentioned before was audited by PCW.

On top of that I've highlighted how Anglo refused to release details that could have shot down SQ's claims. After all they are the ones with all the information.

So you can believe what you want. Much the same as I will.

[mylestheslasher]

Supersarsfields - any truth in the rumour that the cira are involved on the attacks on the Quinn group do you think. They probably think they will get some support, on their own brainless way. Totally stupid actions no matter who is doing it.

[supersarsfields]

Haven't heard anything solid Myles. Police raided a few houses this week but didn't turn up anything. Hard to know if it's just locals or if it is more organised. No sense in it now, what's done is done and there won't be any reversal now. I'll just give them excuses when there's job losses. It wouldn't have much support from what I see. 

[Orangemac]

It's hard to believe local people regardless of how loyal they are to Sean Quinn would be behind these attacks.

Would certainly seem to fit in with dissidents views on capitalism.

[orangeman]

Sean Quinn declared bankrupt in Republic of Ireland

Sean Quinn's has been declared bankrupt in the Republic of Ireland Fermanagh businessman Sean Quinn has been declared bankrupt in the Republic of Ireland.

The High Court in Dublin heard the bankruptcy application made by the former Anglo Irish Bank. It was not opposed by Mr Quinn.

Last week, the bank, now Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IBRC) succeeded in having Mr Quinn's bankruptcy status in Northern Ireland annulled.


However, given the Republic's tough bankruptcy laws, he could be closer to 80 before he is allowed to take such a role.

This is not the end of the his legal fight with Anglo Irish Bank, now called IBRC.

Some of his close family members are due to mount a court action in Dublin challenging the legality of a 2bn euro loan Anglo made to them.

They say the bank in effect used them as part of an illegal share support scheme and the transaction is thus invalid.

The bank is also trying to seize Quinn family properties in Ukraine, Russia and India - a legal battle which has involved proceedings in courtrooms from Belfast to the British Virgin Islands.
Dublin Judge Elizabeth Dunn advised that Mr Quinn, 65, make himself available to be served the bankruptcy documents.

Speaking afterwards, Gavin Simons, solicitor for Mr Quinn confirmed his client would be making himself available to the official assignee Chris Lehane, to be served with the bankruptcy documents at a time that suits both parties.

He also said that Mr Quinn was not in court because he was not opposing the application

[deiseach]

It's hard to believe local people regardless of how loyal they are to Sean Quinn would be behind these attacks.

Would certainly seem to fit in with dissidents views on capitalism.

I certainly can believe that local people would be behind these attacks. It only takes one idiot etc. In fairness, Seán Quinn has been quite unequivocal in condemning the attacks. Nothing more he can do about it.

[muppet]

Why would dissidents be upset now that he is broke? Surely their Communist ideology should have had more problems with him when he was the richest man in the country?

[deiseach]

Why would dissidents be upset now that he is broke? Surely their Communist ideology should have had more problems with him when he was the richest man in the country?

Sticking it to The Man, I guess

[LeoMc]

Lone Shark, unless sarsfields is someone within senior management at the Quinn Group, how do you expect him or anyone else on here to have substantial figures and business proposals on how the business should and could have been run and rescued from this future abyss

Even I'd they we're, would it be likely to appear on a GAA forum?

I'm not asking for a detailed business plan here, but SS is asking us to ignore the national media, to take at face value the press releases of Sean Quinn who at best, has proven himself to be hugely naive in the world of finance with a spectacular feck up, and to assume that there is a national conspiracy going on extending into the justice system - all without any evidence whatsoever.

Something remotely concrete would be nice, is all I'm saying.

If only he had stuck to supplying concrete!!!

[AQMP]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0117/1224310363342.html?via=mr

Hearings to decide whether Seán Quinn's family follows him into bankruptcy are to open in the High Court in two weeks' time.

Mr Quinn (65), once believed to have a net worth of approximately €3 billion, was adjudicated a bankrupt by the courts in Dublin yesterday on the application of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly Anglo Irish Bank.

On February 2nd preliminary hearings are to be heard in the case where Mr Quinn's wife, Patricia, and the couple's five children are disputing the State-owned bank's claim for debts of €2.88 billion.

The family is claiming that it should not be held liable for the debts because the bank lent money which was used for the purpose of shoring up the bank's own share price. The family says the debts are tainted with illegality.

The Quinn family, once the richest in the State, last year lost control of the Quinn Group and of a large property portfolio in Ireland and the UK. It is contesting the efforts of the bank to seize valuable properties, with a value of up to half a billion euro, in eastern Europe and farther afield.

Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne, in the High Court yesterday, adjudicated Mr Quinn a bankrupt on the basis of an application made by Paul Gallagher SC, for IBRC. Mr Quinn was not in court and did not oppose the application.

Last November the bank was given summary judgment orders against Mr Quinn for debts of more than €2 billion, the largest such orders made against an individual to date.

About the same time, however, Mr Quinn surprised the bank by making a successful ex parte application to the courts in Belfast for bankruptcy status there. That order was annulled last week in a case where the bank argued successfully that Mr Quinn's centre of main interest was in the Republic and not in Northern Ireland.

In Northern Ireland bankrupts can emerge from their debts within 12 months, while the corresponding period in the Republic is 12 years.

Following yesterday's ruling by Ms Justice Dunne, Mr Quinn's assets now vest with the official assignee, Chris Lehane. Mr Quinn must meet Mr Lehane's office and furnish a statement of affairs.

He is barred from managing a company or being a company director and is advised to inform Mr Lehane's office before leaving the country. Mr Lehane can also review any asset transfers made in the past five years and, given certain circumstances, have them rendered void.

In his statement of affairs to the court in Belfast last year Mr Quinn said he had a little over €10,000 in three bank accounts, some forested land in Cavan and Fermanagh worth £35,000, and a 2004 Mercedes S600 worth £4,000. He said he had an Irish Life pension worth €159,951 and a Quinn Life pension worth €39,723.

He said he had no business, was unemployed, had no income and had monthly outgoings of £2,380.

He also said he began inheritance tax planning for his children in the late 1990s. The shares in the Quinn Group were transferred to his children in the middle of the last decade.

Following yesterday's ruling Mr Quinn accused the bank of pursuing a vendetta against him and his family. He said it had achieved its goal of "ensuring that I will never create another job".

"Given the expense incurred by Anglo in having my Northern Ireland bankruptcy overturned and the fact that today's judgement in no way improves Anglo's prospects of recovering money for the taxpayer, their [sic] actions clearly prove that it is a personal vendetta."

However, the bank responded by saying it was Mr Quinn who opted to approach the courts in Belfast to be declared a bankrupt.

"It is disappointing to note that Mr Quinn continues to assert that his bankruptcy is a matter of a personal vendetta by IBRC against him and his family. This simply is not true."

The bank said its focus was to recover as much as possible from assets over which it had security.

Relations between Mr Quinn and the bank have been particularly bad since it seized the Quinn Group in April of last year, a development which Mr Quinn has said left him "in a state of shock".

[AQMP]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0117/1224310361798.html?via=rel

The Belfry is also officially up for sale.  Bought (by Sean Quinn Jnr ) in 2006 for £186mill, now valued at £88mill with an outstanding debt of £105mill.

[supersarsfields]

Interesting article In the independent regarding the transferring of assets and why their doing it. Also shows that if they are unsuccessful in their cases Anglo will still be able to recover the assets regardless of these transfers.

Also interesting Reading regarding the properties at the end regarding that they were bought with Quinn Money orginally and the loans for the properties were over a year later through Anglo.   

^{LOCALS are "exploiting" the legal battles between Anglo Irish Bank and the Quinn family to seize control of a $60m (€46.4m) property company in Kiev, Sean Quinn's son has claimed.
The claim came as the Quinns defended changes to the €500m property empire's structure that Anglo has described as a "orchestrated attack" to "strip assets" from the group and put them beyond Anglo's reach.
The most recent drama centres on a Kiev shopping centre, which is owned by a company that Anglo has seized control of. A British Virgin Islands company recently registered a $45.2m (€35m) charge against the Anglo-owned company.
Sean Quinn this week insisted the company that had registered the charge was "not us".
His son, Sean Quinn Jnr, predicted that neither Anglo nor the family would extract any value from the Ukranian asset because locals were "exploiting" the row.
"We approached Anglo in October/November to tell them there was a problem in the Ukraine, they didn't want to know," Mr Quinn Jnr added. A spokesman for Anglo declined to comment.
Speaking to the Irish Independent this week, the Quinns also defended changes that saw sizable loans due to some of the Anglo-created property companies transferred to companies outside the bank's reach.
Mr Quinn Jnr said that this merely changes re-assigned inter-company loans that the Quinns had granted to the companies Anglo took over. This was carried out before Anglo took over the property empire on April 14, the Quinns say. The transfers will have no effect if Anglo is successful in enforcing the mortgages it holds over the properties themselves, since the properties are worth less than the mortgages and there would be no cash left to pay off the other loans.
But if the Quinns successfully challenge the mortgages, then the reassigned loans could become valuable.
The Quinns also claimed that Anglo loans to their empire were used exclusively for investment in the bank's own shares and not for property purchases.
They have claimed in legal proceedings that a total of €2.34bn of share loans is invalid because they were granted for the illegal purpose of artificially preventing the bank's own share price from crashing.
The Quinns produced documents showing the loans for the Kiev company were granted by Anglo on December 17, 2007 -- a year after the building was purchased using "Quinn family resources".
Separate documents show $242m (€187m) of loans for Russian property assets were granted on November 2007 and December 2007, even though the Quinns invested just £90m (€108m) in the properties and had paid it all out by early 2007.}