Quinn Insurance in Administration

[Lone Shark]

It was the governments choice to buy out anglo, a completely corrupt (I think we're all agreed) organisation. In doing so, they took on all this problem. Its they who lumbered the taxpayer with the whole quinn problem. One wonders why, knowing all this, they were so quick to dive in and rescue (cover up). To divert attention from their own actions, they've managed to create a pantomime baddy, which is why they're screwing quinn as hard as they can. Shower of corrupt c***ts, who seem to have escaped scot free.

Another point - lone shark, in terms of passports, many nationalists, myself included, in the north, have irish passports, as is our right as irish citizens. It has no bearing on the centre of interest, for those purposes Derrylin is in Ireland too, as anyone from there can also have an Irish passport.

Yet again I will say that I'm not for a minute questioning SQ's sense of national identity, or that of anyone else. I am saying that a judge came to a certain conclusion and I'm inclined to go with that rather than the word of people on here who have made it very clear that they would defend him if he was filmed committing murder live on TV.

Also, I also thought we had covered the fact that the treacher/incompetence/corruption of the Irish government that guaranteed bank debt is not at issue. Nobody's debating that. The debate is over the fact that there is a hole in IBRC's balance sheet due to SQ's actions and those of the state combined, along with a few other players. The galling aspect is that while we all have to pay the bill, SQ continues to salt away assets and play tricks to ensure that his family live a lifestyle that they haven't earned, while the genuine taxpayers of this nation have no such option to avoid paying their share of the bill.

This is not about which is the greater criminal here. Sean Quinn should be stripped of all assets that he owned at the time when he borrowed money, or indeed anyone who now possesses them, but then he should be allowed to start fresh. Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen on the other hand should be hanged for treason against the state.  But that's not the point here. 

[mylestheslasher]

You do realise Quinn passed many assests to his sibling years ago, maybe 10 or so years ago he signed the slieve russell to his daughter for example. Also, anyone who knows the Quinn group and the surrounding area will know it is based at a center in fermanagh. Always was. It is Anglo who found a loop hole to say otherwise. Finally, I would not defend Quinn if he were filmed murdering someone.

[Lone Shark]

You do realise Quinn passed many assests to his sibling years ago, maybe 10 or so years ago he signed the slieve russell to his daughter for example. Also, anyone who knows the Quinn group and the surrounding area will know it is based at a center in fermanagh. Always was. It is Anglo who found a loop hole to say otherwise. Finally, I would not defend Quinn if he were filmed murdering someone.

Fine. If he was not indebted at that point, or was but has since paid off those loans, then no problem, she should be allowed retain her interest in the hotel. I didn't know which assets were passed on and which weren't, but I presumed some had been. The problem is not those kind of assets - it's assets that have been acquired with borrowed money, or assets that were part of his portfolio when he made the personal guarantee on the loans he took out, that should now be subject to the attention of the receiver appointed.

[supersarsfields]

All assets were passed onto the kids. The group, the insurance, foreign properties were all in others names long before administration.

SQ had no assets and was lent £2.8 billion.

The court cases that the Quinns are taking is because they contest the legality of the guaranetts. Anglo with the suppport of the government decided they would seize control. Funnily enough the Quinns disagreed and are now protecting their assets.

People bringing up the dept to the tax payers is an irrelevance. SQ's fight is still with Anglo, As I mention previous just because the dept was nationalised doesn't mean they should drop their cases or stop taking action to protect themselves.
Anglo decided the route they wanted to try and go for dept recovery. And if it's blowing up in their face I have no sympathy. There was other options.     

[haranguerer]

The point re the identity was that you enboldened the part about him holding an irish passport as though it supported where his centre of interest was - I was pointing out that its utterly irrelevant.

In relation to assets transferred to the wife, kids etc - thats standard practice, and will form a large of any tax advice an accountant will be giving.

If a ponzi scheme asked you to invest money under false pretences, which you did, would you not then be entitled to hold back on all the payments once the fraud was exposed? Of course you would. Its the fact that the state went straight in to support anglo (which reeks) which has made this case a little different, because suddenly everyone thinks they are owed. Fact is, angol, which is the tax payers bank acted immorlally and illegally, they have no right to expect repayment, regardless of the fact that they are now owned by the people and so have a lot of support in seeking the payment

[ludermor]

All assets were passed onto the kids. The group, the insurance, foreign properties were all in others names long before administration.

SQ had no assets and was lent £2.8 billion.

The court cases that the Quinns are taking is because they contest the legality of the guaranetts. Anglo with the suppport of the government decided they would seize control. Funnily enough the Quinns disagreed and are now protecting their assets.

People bringing up the dept to the tax payers is an irrelevance. SQ's fight is still with Anglo, As I mention previous just because the dept was nationalised doesn't mean they should drop their cases or stop taking action to protect themselves.
Anglo decided the route they wanted to try and go for dept recovery. And if it's blowing up in their face I have no sympathy. There was other options.   

Same comment but aimed in the opposite direction.

[muppet]

You do realise Quinn passed many assests to his sibling years ago, maybe 10 or so years ago he signed the slieve russell to his daughter for example. Also, anyone who knows the Quinn group and the surrounding area will know it is based at a center in fermanagh. Always was. It is Anglo who found a loop hole to say otherwise. Finally, I would not defend Quinn if he were filmed murdering someone.

Bingo.

A guy I played football with years ago was found dead in unsuspicious circumstances this week. There is a rumour of something similar in another Mayo town, also this week. There will be lots of stories like that this year and next year.

They are the real victims and those to blame for creating the mess include Neary, Fitzpatrick, Drumm, Lenihan, Cowen, Aherne and yes, Sean Quinn.

[supersarsfields]

Aww muppet if your going to go down that road. Are you going to count the people SQ may have saved from doing wat you mentioned above when he supplied jobs to an area in dire need of them and when people had nowhere else to go? The rest of your list there doesn't compare to him.

You can argue the jobs etc are an irrelevance if you want but they're not in my eyes nor the eyes of alot of other in that area.   

[Rois]

Is the issue of where you are eligible to vote not more important than the passport in defining residency?  And bankruptcy is not a corporate issue, it's a personal one, so if someone is resident in a particular state then they should be subject to the laws of that state.  As Lone Shark says, it's a matter for the courts.

[muppet]

Aww muppet if your going to go down that road. Are you going to count the people SQ may have saved from doing wat you mentioned above when he supplied jobs to an area in dire need of them and when people had nowhere else to go? The rest of your list there doesn't compare to him.

You can argue the jobs etc are an irrelevance if you want but they're not in my eyes nor the eyes of alot of other in that area.

SS Haughey, Ahern, Cowen, Fitzpatrick bestowed their crumbs (jobs) on people too and had their worshippers. Your argument for Quinn would be just as valid and just as hollow for any of the others.

Quinn went to Anglo, not the other way round. He absolutely deserves to be named in that company and I think he will become infamous in Irish History, as he was different. The others were incompetent or corrupt, but Quinn, he just lost it all on one monumentally stupid bet.

[supersarsfields]

My point was in trying to relate deaths to SQ. To me that smacks of sensalising things.
I'll ask you a question do you think any of those deaths occurred because of SQ's loans?

The main aspect in the bankruptcy was the centre of interests Rois. When SQ got turfed out of HQ ( in the north) his centre of main interests defaulted to his home address. Up until that point SQ would have been required to go bankrupt in the north. So as his centre of interests was in the south at time of bankruptcy Anglo fought and won to have him bankrupt there.

[muppet]

My point was in trying to relate deaths to SQ. To me that smacks of sensalising things.
I'll ask you a question do you think any of those deaths occurred because of SQ's loans?

The main aspect in the bankruptcy was the centre of interests Rois. When SQ got turfed out of HQ ( in the north) his centre of main interests defaulted to his home address. Up until that point SQ would have been required to go bankrupt in the north. So as his centre of interests was in the south at time of bankruptcy Anglo fought and won to have him bankrupt there.

Listen, the number of deaths by suicide is rising undoubtedly as a result of the financial crisis. I have never said that happened exclusively because of Quinn, be he certainly was a large part of it along with all of the others.

I'll say it again another way so you don't try to twist my words again: The number of suicides is rising because of all of the corrupt incompetent scumbags that was our financial system, including but not limited to, Sean Quinn.

[AQMP]

In related news

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0113/1224310196120.html?via=mr

Drumm loses court challenge against bankruptcy case in US

LARA MARLOWE in Boston

DAVID DRUMM, former chief executive of Anglo Irish Bank, yesterday lost a legal challenge against his bankruptcy case in the United States.

Mr Drumm did not attend the hearing and will not be required to appear in court until his bankruptcy trial, which should occur in late spring or early summer.

Yesterday, he lost his motion to dismiss proceedings by the court-appointed trustee Kathleen Dwyer to void what she regards as his fraudulent claim of bankruptcy.

The deadline for opposing discharge of Mr Drumm's debts of more than €8.6 million under section 727 of the bankruptcy code had been set for August 31st, 2011. Mr Drumm's lawyer, Frank Morrissey, said: "The rule in this district is that papers must be filed by 4.30pm . . . It's a black or white rule."

The Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IBRC), the successor bank to Anglo, filed its 727 action prior to 4.30pm that day. Mr Morrissey argued that allowing both 727 actions to go ahead was prejudicial to Mr Drumm because "it adds another party and makes it more protracted and more expensive".

Judge Frank Bailey had specified the deadline as "to and including August 31st".

"Our position is that means 4.30pm," Mr Morrissey said.

Judge Bailey asked what time Ms Dwyer filed her motion. "5.21 pm," Mr Morrissey said. "From 4.30 to 5.21 is 51 minutes."

"We may not be math stars, but we can agree on that," Judge Bailey said, provoking laughter in the courtroom.

Ms Dwyer's lawyer, Charles Bennett, said the deadline meant midnight on August 31st. Dismissing Ms Dwyer's case would be prejudicial to lesser creditors who are not included in the IBRC action, he argued.

Ken Leonetti, a lawyer for IBRC, said the deadlines had been extended "for the sole reason to accommodate Mr Drumm's slow dribble of documents". During the section 341 bankruptcy hearings last year, Mr Drumm repeatedly failed to meet deadlines to produce documents requested by the trustee.

Judge Bailey said he "could not ignore we are in the electronic age" and that in his mind, "the trustee could reasonably have believed she had more time. So I am going to deny the motion and allow the 727 to proceed."

Mr Drumm's lawyers succeeded on a motion to obtain access to some of the IBRC's evidence in a different action under section 523. The 523 action may be abandoned if the bank and trustee win under section 727.

"It doesn't make sense to get going with 523 at this point. But all the evidence is preserved," said John Hutchinson, a lawyer for IBRC.

IBRC is represented by prestigious law firms in Chicago, Boston and New York. Mr Drumm retains two Boston lawyers.

The separate issue of the trustee's action to liquidate property held in the name of Mr Drumm's wife Lorraine has been postponed at least until February 2nd. The Drumms are believed to have left their $2 million home in Wellesley, near Boston.

[supersarsfields]

I'm not twisting your words. I'm just offering the view that the opposite of that is true for SQ which very few of the others can lay claim to especially not to the extent that SQ did. And the effects of that are still in effect today. There are 1000's of people who are in employment due to SQ.

So if your going to lay part of the blame at his feet for financial related suicides then make sure you take into account the flip side as well.

[haranguerer]

My point was in trying to relate deaths to SQ. To me that smacks of sensalising things.
I'll ask you a question do you think any of those deaths occurred because of SQ's loans?

The main aspect in the bankruptcy was the centre of interests Rois. When SQ got turfed out of HQ ( in the north) his centre of main interests defaulted to his home address. Up until that point SQ would have been required to go bankrupt in the north. So as his centre of interests was in the south at time of bankruptcy Anglo fought and won to have him bankrupt there.

Listen, the number of deaths by suicide are rising are undoubtedly as a result of the financial crisis. I have never said that happened exclusively because of Quinn, be he certainly was a large part of it along with all of the others.

I'll say it again another way so you don't try to twist my words again: The number of suicides is rising because of all of the corrupt incompetent scumbags that was our financial system, including but limited to, Sean Quinn.

Narrow it down - what exactly is quinn responsible for?