Quinn Insurance in Administration

[supersarsfields]

What exactly is it in that article that I'm meant to be looking at that would conflict with the North being SQ's centre of main interests for 38 years?

- Sean didn't disclose in his bankruptcy application that he had an Irish passport and didn't have a UK passport, didn't disclose that he is registered to vote in the Republic

- Judge says Sean was hesitant in disclosing details of new business ventures after Quinn group receivership and concludes "on balance of probabilities" lease document on office in Derrylin, Fermanagh was prepared after date claimed by Sean Quinn and was designed to bolster Sean's present arguments about his centre of main interest being in Northern Ireland

Are those the actions of a man looking to paint an accurate picture of his situation?

Again i'm struggling to see what point your trying to make. His point of interest for 38 years was the North. If the Quinn group had went bust, he would have been bankrupted in the north, if Anglo hadn't denied him access to the Head office, he would have been bankrupted in the North. therefore those trying to paint this picture of him running north to go bankrupt are wide of the mark. He was born in the north, is going to be buried in the north (Surprisingly this all matters). The fact that he had an irish passport doesn't mean he can't be from the north. It was hardly staggering that he opted for the north for the bankruptcy.
The only reason it was overturned was because the judge didn't believe that the office in Derrylin was actually in place before he applied for bankruptcy ( I'd agree that it more than likely wasn't which was a huge feck up by SQ's solicitors). Had it been it wouldn't have been overturned.

[sammymaguire]

He who has not sinned can cast the first stone.

The good he did to the area MASSIVELY outweighs the misdemeanors he may have committed. I have yet to meet a Saint in Irish business. Leave it at that lads.

Just a hunch, but I imagine a resounding "NO", to that request.

Ok let's keep her lit folks ha ha!!

Deiseach, all entrepreneurs like to bend the rules right, push the boundaries and all that??

[oisinog]

What exactly is it in that article that I'm meant to be looking at that would conflict with the North being SQ's centre of main interests for 38 years?

- Sean didn't disclose in his bankruptcy application that he had an Irish passport and didn't have a UK passport, didn't disclose that he is registered to vote in the Republic

- Judge says Sean was hesitant in disclosing details of new business ventures after Quinn group receivership and concludes "on balance of probabilities" lease document on office in Derrylin, Fermanagh was prepared after date claimed by Sean Quinn and was designed to bolster Sean's present arguments about his centre of main interest being in Northern Ireland

Are those the actions of a man looking to paint an accurate picture of his situation?

Again i'm struggling to see what point your trying to make. His point of interest for 38 years was the North. If the Quinn group had went bust, he would have been bankrupted in the north, if Anglo hadn't denied him access to the Head office, he would have been bankrupted in the North. therefore those trying to paint this picture of him running north to go bankrupt are wide of the mark. He was born in the north, is going to be buried in the north (Surprisingly this all matters). It was hardly staggering that he opted for the north for the bankruptcy.
The only reason it was overturned was because the judge didn't believe that the office in Derrylin was actually in place before he applied for bankruptcy ( I'd agree that it more than likely wasn't which was a huge feck up by SQ's solicitors). Had it been it wouldn't have been overturned.

Just to back this up the quinn group head office is in Derrylin Co.Fermanagh

Last time I was down that part of the country I was still using Sterling

[deiseach]

Deiseach, all entrepreneurs like to bend the rules right, push the boundaries and all that??

No, they don't.

[Lone Shark]

What exactly is it in that article that I'm meant to be looking at that would conflict with the North being SQ's centre of main interests for 38 years?

- Sean didn't disclose in his bankruptcy application that he had an Irish passport and didn't have a UK passport, didn't disclose that he is registered to vote in the Republic

- Judge says Sean was hesitant in disclosing details of new business ventures after Quinn group receivership and concludes "on balance of probabilities" lease document on office in Derrylin, Fermanagh was prepared after date claimed by Sean Quinn and was designed to bolster Sean's present arguments about his centre of main interest being in Northern Ireland

Are those the actions of a man looking to paint an accurate picture of his situation?

Again i'm struggling to see what point your trying to make. His point of interest for 38 years was the North. If the Quinn group had went bust, he would have been bankrupted in the north, if Anglo hadn't denied him access to the Head office, he would have been bankrupted in the North. therefore those trying to paint this picture of him running north to go bankrupt are wide of the mark. He was born in the north, is going to be buried in the north (Surprisingly this all matters). The fact that he had an irish passport doesn't mean he can't be from the north. It was hardly staggering that he opted for the north for the bankruptcy.
The only reason it was overturned was because the judge didn't believe that the office in Derrylin was actually in place before he applied for bankruptcy ( I'd agree that it more than likely wasn't which was a huge feck up by SQ's solicitors). Had it been it wouldn't have been overturned.

Not trying to be disrespectful to you or anything, but I'm inclined to go with the judge on this one. I'm not trying to argue that I know the minutae of this as well as you do, but if his centre of interest was truly in the six counties, then why did the judge overturn the application for bankruptcy? You're saying I should believe you over a judge who has studied this case in detail and taken submissions from both sides - surely you can see why I might be skeptical?

He who has not sinned can cast the first stone.

The good he did to the area MASSIVELY outweighs the misdemeanors he may have committed. I have yet to meet a Saint in Irish business. Leave it at that lads.

Just to be clear on this, firstly, doing good does not give you licence to subsequently break the law. Secondly, the citizens of Ireland are the ones picking up the tab for this, so the question is not whether or not he was good for Cavan and Fermanagh, it's whether or not he was good for Ireland. If Cavan and Fermanagh taxpayers alone want to pay back the money to IBRC, then we can talk about what he did for the border area as if it's the be-all and end-all of this debate. The fact that there were 8000 employed by Quinn Group at their peak is of course a point in their favour, but if the Quinn Group was not supplying cement, glass, insurance and everything else to the people of Ireland, somebody else would have been. Maybe those suppliers would have been based elsewhere in the country, but it's a fallacy to say that during a time of virtually full employment in the country, every one of these people would have been on the dole were it not for SQ. Equally, I've yet to see a plausible set of numbers that demonstrates coherently that all his "good" for the country outweighs the huge hole in IBRC, the levy that is now going to be placed on all insurance products, not to mention the many other burdens on the exchequer arising out of this sorry mess. Any attempt at doing so contains fundamental mathematical errors, such as assuming he employed 8000 people for the 30 years of his working life, or using ridiculous multipliers for "spin off" benefits that have no basis in economic reality.

[supersarsfields]

I think there's a bit of confusion here loanshark. I'm not disputing what decision the judge made. My point is regarding people claiming that he ran of to NI for the bankruptcy proceedings. He had his main centre of interests in the north for over 38 years. That means for the previous 38 years if SQ was went bankrupt it would have been in the north. So he didn't run to the north for bankruptcy.

The only reason that it was overturned was because since April SQ's centre of interest has now defaulted to his home. And this is the technicality that Anglo focused on to over turn it. Legally so I might add. But people claiming that he ran away to the north obviously don't know what there're talking about as out of the last 39 odd years he would have been not only entitled to but actually required to go bankrupt in the north. But because of a slip up by his solicitors it's been overturned.

No real point going into your second paragraph as we've done it all before and I'm at home now. We can take it up in the morning again!!

[sammymaguire]

Deiseach, all entrepreneurs like to bend the rules right, push the boundaries and all that??

No, they don't.

Yes they do.

[muppet]

Deiseach, all entrepreneurs like to bend the rules right, push the boundaries and all that??

No, they don't.

Yes they do.

Those of us with no emotional attachment to Quinn have no respect for him at best and at worst despise him. Those with emotional connections will take longer, but they will get there.

[sammymaguire]

Entrepreneurs don't conform. That's all I am saying.

[Tubberman]

Entrepreneurs don't conform. That's all I am saying.

Carte blanche so? That's handy.

[sammymaguire]

Entrepreneurs don't conform. That's all I am saying.

Carte blanche so? That's handy.

We wouldn't be that hot at the French in Fermanagh 

[LeoMc]

Deiseach, all entrepreneurs like to bend the rules right, push the boundaries and all that??

No, they don't.

Some do, but if you can't do the time don't do the crime.
He bent the rules, he got caught.

[Mayo4Sam]

He who has not sinned can cast the first stone.

The good he did to the area MASSIVELY outweighs the misdemeanors he may have committed. I have yet to meet a Saint in Irish business. Leave it at that lads.

I would love to leave it at that, in fact that would be f**king mighty to leave it at that but the fact of it is that me, my kids and in all probability their kids will be paying back  SQs debts, so all the good he did is really f**k all use, I've never been to sarsfields GAA club, I'm sure it's a lovely club but it really doesn't compensate me or any of the other people who are paying back his gamble.

And sorry to bring this up but it seems, without any official poll, that the none of the people here defending SQ are actually all that affected by his actions?

[supersarsfields]

It is a great club, got nothing to do with SQ right enough.

Now the Shamrocks on the other hand..... 

I think you'll find some of the ones defending him will be more affected than the majority on this board. And I include myself in that. 

You and your children would have been paying this huge dept anyway. SQ's dept ( Lets not forget they took over a group profitting £100 odd million a year as well as an insurance company that will make profit in the future) while  not a spit in the ocean is small compared to the total dept.

Ireland would be worse of if SQ hadn't started 40 odd years ago.

[haranguerer]

It was the governments choice to buy out anglo, a completely corrupt (I think we're all agreed) organisation. In doing so, they took on all this problem. Its they who lumbered the taxpayer with the whole quinn problem. One wonders why, knowing all this, they were so quick to dive in and rescue (cover up). To divert attention from their own actions, they've managed to create a pantomime baddy, which is why they're screwing quinn as hard as they can. Shower of corrupt c***ts, who seem to have escaped scot free.

Another point - lone shark, in terms of passports, many nationalists, myself included, in the north, have irish passports, as is our right as irish citizens. It has no bearing on the centre of interest, for those purposes Derrylin is in Ireland too, as anyone from there can also have an Irish passport.