Lads not sure if you had seen Pearse Doherty taking apart the insurance firms this week, but he really showed them up with their false claims.
Then you have an article saying that the High Court awarded 19% less in 2018 compared to 2017 in personal claims.
ALL the while the premiums are through the roof.
I am lving in Dublin a good while, no need for a car, but one is on offer but I got quoted nearly 3K as a 'new driver'...thought it was harsh as I haven't had my own policy in years but chatting people it seems plenty coming home from Oz and the likes are getting screwed.
Are there any decent operators out there? Is there any hope for reasonable prices.
I know this forum has a lot of Ulster men, so what kind of prices are ye looking at?
Watched The Pearse Doherty grilling, he was fantastic. I don't follow politics much in the ROI, would he be a leading light or a potential future leader? It was mightily impressive.
Saw this and it was very interesting watching his dismantling of the myth of the extent of fraud in the insurance industry. Was something to behold these chief executives squirming at basic facts being leveled at them and which none of them seemed to even have any kind of basic answer prepared. I don't know if that reflects the arrogance of these insurance companies that they think they are beyond this level of questioning.
It is ironic in all of this that these companies appear to be guilty of the biggest fraud of all. The question now is what happens next and what are the consequences for these companies. They will probably squirm off the hook with nothing being done about it and continue as.
As someone who is dealing with this day and daily the attitude of the insurance companies has become very hostile in the last last 12 months. Whereas they would have settled cases readily in the last they are consistently refusing to agree to the assessment process, refusing to settle cases where liability is clearly not an issue and as a consequence they are driving up legal costs and potentially damages. I have 7 cases where they have paid vehicle damage, admitted liability but are refusing to settle the injury element. As a consequence I have had to issue proceedings. Across all 7 cases if they had settled them at the outset our costs would have been about €4,000. As I issued them and will run them to hearing between our costs, defence solicitors and barristers costs for all 7 will be around €100k. We could have sorted this out but they refused. I have to look after my clients. These are all genuine cases too. No vehicle damage was less than €1000 so that's not a minimal impact. There is an agenda since the cartel searches in July 2017 to push out. They have been price fixing and have been caught out. This is a deflection agenda.
Is there much competition between insurance firms?
If you were to shop around could you find any significantly lower prices?
Most companies make the biggest profit from customer who dont shop/compare prices.
Alot of people get caught by automatic renewal that has crept into the t & c.
I would always check online !
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 09, 2019, 05:23:15 PM
As someone who is dealing with this day and daily the attitude of the insurance companies has become very hostile in the last last 12 months. Whereas they would have settled cases readily in the last they are consistently refusing to agree to the assessment process, refusing to settle cases where liability is clearly not an issue and as a consequence they are driving up legal costs and potentially damages. I have 7 cases where they have paid vehicle damage, admitted liability but are refusing to settle the injury element. As a consequence I have had to issue proceedings. Across all 7 cases if they had settled them at the outset our costs would have been about €4,000. As I issued them and will run them to hearing between our costs, defence solicitors and barristers costs for all 7 will be around €100k. We could have sorted this out but they refused. I have to look after my clients. These are all genuine cases too. No vehicle damage was less than €1000 so that's not a minimal impact. There is an agenda since the cartel searches in July 2017 to push out. They have been price fixing and have been caught out. This is a deflection agenda.
Solicitors are as much at fault as are Insurance companies. I had a smash, guy wan't paying attention and T-Boned me at a blind corner. Admitted liability etc. Police attended, agreed it was his fault. Got a letter 2 weeks later from Wislon Nesbitt seeking personal injury claim for him and son £50k each. I countered and it's still going on. Solicitors only ones benefiting. I love to ring the guy up and tell him to cop on. Belfast p***k and it's a culture down there unfortunately, fed by the legal profession.
Agree Doherty was mighty impressive. The whole industry is a cartel. It's complete profiteering. There's less serious accidents every year yet they're upping the anti all time.
Quote from: trailer on July 09, 2019, 09:32:55 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 09, 2019, 05:23:15 PM
As someone who is dealing with this day and daily the attitude of the insurance companies has become very hostile in the last last 12 months. Whereas they would have settled cases readily in the last they are consistently refusing to agree to the assessment process, refusing to settle cases where liability is clearly not an issue and as a consequence they are driving up legal costs and potentially damages. I have 7 cases where they have paid vehicle damage, admitted liability but are refusing to settle the injury element. As a consequence I have had to issue proceedings. Across all 7 cases if they had settled them at the outset our costs would have been about €4,000. As I issued them and will run them to hearing between our costs, defence solicitors and barristers costs for all 7 will be around €100k. We could have sorted this out but they refused. I have to look after my clients. These are all genuine cases too. No vehicle damage was less than €1000 so that's not a minimal impact. There is an agenda since the cartel searches in July 2017 to push out. They have been price fixing and have been caught out. This is a deflection agenda.
Solicitors are as much at fault as are Insurance companies. I had a smash, guy wan't paying attention and T-Boned me at a blind corner. Admitted liability etc. Police attended, agreed it was his fault. Got a letter 2 weeks later from Wislon Nesbitt seeking personal injury claim for him and son £50k each. I countered and it's still going on. Solicitors only ones benefiting. I love to ring the guy up and tell him to cop on. Belfast p***k and it's a culture down there unfortunately, fed by the legal profession.
Agree Doherty was mighty impressive. The whole industry is a cartel. It's complete profiteering. There's less serious accidents every year yet they're upping the anti all time.
If he has admitted liability and the police know that then I would agree that the solicitor is wrong to be pursuing this and if your Insurance company have anything about them they will defend it. I regularly turn cases away as I feel that liability is questionable and I would reckon the majority of solicitors are like that. A bit surprised at Wilson Nesbit to be honest as they would be one of the more established firms so don't need to do that sort of thing.
Derry city is the place renowned for claim culture.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 10, 2019, 12:13:08 PM
Derry city is the place renowned for claim culture.
Is it? I'm not from the city but it's the first I've heard of it
Reminds me of the old yarn about a bus crashing on the Falls. There were only a couple of passengers on board at the time of the crash but there were 30 odd claims after the chancers decided to pile on after. I doubt if there was any element of truth to the story but the old saying no smoke without fire comes to mind.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 09, 2019, 05:23:15 PM
As someone who is dealing with this day and daily the attitude of the insurance companies has become very hostile in the last last 12 months. Whereas they would have settled cases readily in the last they are consistently refusing to agree to the assessment process, refusing to settle cases where liability is clearly not an issue and as a consequence they are driving up legal costs and potentially damages. I have 7 cases where they have paid vehicle damage, admitted liability but are refusing to settle the injury element. As a consequence I have had to issue proceedings. Across all 7 cases if they had settled them at the outset our costs would have been about €4,000. As I issued them and will run them to hearing between our costs, defence solicitors and barristers costs for all 7 will be around €100k. We could have sorted this out but they refused. I have to look after my clients. These are all genuine cases too. No vehicle damage was less than €1000 so that's not a minimal impact. There is an agenda since the cartel searches in July 2017 to push out. They have been price fixing and have been caught out. This is a deflection agenda.
Are the injuries genuine?
A scratch to a bumper could easily cost > 1k
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 10, 2019, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 09, 2019, 05:23:15 PM
As someone who is dealing with this day and daily the attitude of the insurance companies has become very hostile in the last last 12 months. Whereas they would have settled cases readily in the last they are consistently refusing to agree to the assessment process, refusing to settle cases where liability is clearly not an issue and as a consequence they are driving up legal costs and potentially damages. I have 7 cases where they have paid vehicle damage, admitted liability but are refusing to settle the injury element. As a consequence I have had to issue proceedings. Across all 7 cases if they had settled them at the outset our costs would have been about €4,000. As I issued them and will run them to hearing between our costs, defence solicitors and barristers costs for all 7 will be around €100k. We could have sorted this out but they refused. I have to look after my clients. These are all genuine cases too. No vehicle damage was less than €1000 so that's not a minimal impact. There is an agenda since the cartel searches in July 2017 to push out. They have been price fixing and have been caught out. This is a deflection agenda.
Are the injuries genuine?
A scratch to a bumper could easily cost > 1k
Absolutely genuine....I know the man very well and he is crippled with back pain
Can't pin all the blame on Solicitor either. People should have a bit of decency about them rather than the current view of, I've been involved in an accident, I deserve a claim. At the end of the day if a Solicitor's told his client has an injury they are there to take their client at their word and to work in their best interest. Bar a really obvious fabricated claim, it would be tough for a Solicitor to decide which is genuine or not. For me the blame should be laid firmly at the people who knowingly either fabricate or exaggerate their injury to try and make a few pound. I've no doubt some solicitors will harry their clients to include a PI claim and they should rightly be shot with a ball of their own sh!te. But for me it's a sign of the way society has went and the in for themselves mentality.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 10, 2019, 01:35:44 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 10, 2019, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 09, 2019, 05:23:15 PM
As someone who is dealing with this day and daily the attitude of the insurance companies has become very hostile in the last last 12 months. Whereas they would have settled cases readily in the last they are consistently refusing to agree to the assessment process, refusing to settle cases where liability is clearly not an issue and as a consequence they are driving up legal costs and potentially damages. I have 7 cases where they have paid vehicle damage, admitted liability but are refusing to settle the injury element. As a consequence I have had to issue proceedings. Across all 7 cases if they had settled them at the outset our costs would have been about €4,000. As I issued them and will run them to hearing between our costs, defence solicitors and barristers costs for all 7 will be around €100k. We could have sorted this out but they refused. I have to look after my clients. These are all genuine cases too. No vehicle damage was less than €1000 so that's not a minimal impact. There is an agenda since the cartel searches in July 2017 to push out. They have been price fixing and have been caught out. This is a deflection agenda.
Are the injuries genuine?
A scratch to a bumper could easily cost > 1k
Absolutely genuine....I know the man very well and he is crippled with back pain
What about the other 6 cases?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 10, 2019, 01:51:22 PM
Can't pin all the blame on Solicitor either. People should have a bit of decency about them rather than the current view of, I've been involved in an accident, I deserve a claim. At the end of the day if a Solicitor's told his client has an injury they are there to take their client at their word and to work in their best interest. Bar a really obvious fabricated claim, it would be tough for a Solicitor to decide which is genuine or not. For me the blame should be laid firmly at the people who knowingly either fabricate or exaggerate their injury to try and make a few pound. I've no doubt some solicitors will harry their clients to include a PI claim and they should rightly be shot with a ball of their own sh!te. But for me it's a sign of the way society has went and the in for themselves mentality.
Absolutely agree.
I'd like to see the system changed so that if someone is genuinely injured, they would have all their medical / physio bills paid for but not get a massive payout because they got "whiplash" from a minor enough tip
Part of the problem is the use of the term "fraudulent"
About four years ago I was turning right at the Merrion gates onto Sandymount strand. There was a red light and I was the third car back, with a string of cars behind me. Next thing I felt a smack in the back; the girl driving the Golf immediately behind had jumped into the back of me. It was no back breaker but it certainly gave us a jolt. I jumped out and asked her what she was thinking. Her response was "I thought you were moving off". I looked at the traffic lights, which were still red, and looked back at her in disbelief. She'd clearly been on her phone. There was some damage to the bumper and the boot lid wouldn't close so I took her insurance details and off we went.
The following day, I felt the tiniest strain in my neck. A paracetamol and a good night's sleep later and there wasn't a thing wrong with me. I had no intention of claiming for anything other than getting the car fixed but asked a barrister friend of mine what I'd have been looking at if I was of such a mind. He laughed when I told him the details - jumped into the back of me, from a stationary position, at a red light. He reckoned absolute minimum offer from insurance company, no questions asked would be 5k each for myself and the wife who was travelling with me.
I imagine these are some of the types of cases the insurance companies are calling "fraudulent" but would bite the hand off you to settle for a few grand as if it went to court it would have been open and shut in my favour with a bigger payout and costs awarded.
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2019, 02:02:48 PM
I imagine these are some of the types of cases the insurance companies are calling "fraudulent" but would bite the hand off you to settle for a few grand as if it went to court it would have been open and shut in my favour with a bigger payout and costs awarded.
Agreed. They're not outright fraudulent, more like disingenuous
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 10, 2019, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 10, 2019, 01:35:44 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 10, 2019, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 09, 2019, 05:23:15 PM
As someone who is dealing with this day and daily the attitude of the insurance companies has become very hostile in the last last 12 months. Whereas they would have settled cases readily in the last they are consistently refusing to agree to the assessment process, refusing to settle cases where liability is clearly not an issue and as a consequence they are driving up legal costs and potentially damages. I have 7 cases where they have paid vehicle damage, admitted liability but are refusing to settle the injury element. As a consequence I have had to issue proceedings. Across all 7 cases if they had settled them at the outset our costs would have been about €4,000. As I issued them and will run them to hearing between our costs, defence solicitors and barristers costs for all 7 will be around €100k. We could have sorted this out but they refused. I have to look after my clients. These are all genuine cases too. No vehicle damage was less than €1000 so that's not a minimal impact. There is an agenda since the cartel searches in July 2017 to push out. They have been price fixing and have been caught out. This is a deflection agenda.
Are the injuries genuine?
A scratch to a bumper could easily cost > 1k
Absolutely genuine....I know the man very well and he is crippled with back pain
What about the other 6 cases?
I am happy to stand over them One particular company is involved with 4 of the 7 and the same modus operandi is in place.
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2019, 02:02:48 PM
The following day, I felt the tiniest strain in my neck. A paracetamol and a good night's sleep later and there wasn't a thing wrong with me. I had no intention of claiming for anything other than getting the car fixed but asked a barrister friend of mine what I'd have been looking at if I was of such a mind. He laughed when I told him the details - jumped into the back of me, from a stationary position, at a red light. He reckoned absolute minimum offer from insurance company, no questions asked would be 5k each for myself and the wife who was travelling with me.
That's not right at all....I'd get you at least 10k ;D
Jokes aside, and I've absolutely no doubt that you could have got me it with minimal effort, to me that's fraudulent. There was nothing wrong with me. Absolutely nothing.
There's no way to disprove it as all I'd have to do is turn up to a GP and say my neck was a bit sore. Having heard the facts of the incident there's absolutely no way they don't advise painkillers and bed rest. Court hears a girl drives into the back of someone at a red light, having been stationary, GP has advised test and pain management and the payout is guaranteed.
Quote from: gallsman on July 10, 2019, 02:55:39 PM
Jokes aside, and I've absolutely no doubt that you could have got me it with minimal effort, to me that's fraudulent. There was nothing wrong with me. Absolutely nothing.
There's no way to disprove it as all I'd have to do is turn up to a GP and say my neck was a bit sore. Having heard the facts of the incident there's absolutely no way they don't advise painkillers and bed rest. Court hears a girl drives into the back of someone at a red light, having been stationary, GP has advised test and pain management and the payout is guaranteed.
maybe not fraudulent as the system is in place to cover injuries at whatever levels they are at. The reality though is that this is not a new phenomenon. We were discussing it in work the other day. I have worked north/south of the border because of where I am from and remember that in the late 1990's early 00's before claims were 'big' the average payout for a whiplash over the border was between 7-10k punts. Given inflation, currency change etc that's not a million miles away from where we are now. The Government in the south created a monster when it put the PIAB system in place as it created a new level of bureaucracy. The idea behind it was to create the space for the lay litigant. There was a clear inequality of arms and as a result solicitors became directly involved in the assessment process, which ultimately saw more cases than before were being issued. I personally try to settle as many RTAs at the earliest opportunity as most times the injuries are not serious. Unless there are broken bones or serious potential problems I will not issue. Most solicitors are the same to be honest. The reality is that 95% of cases settle within the first 6-8 months of the accident and I genuinely can count on 2 hands the amount of cases that I would have doubts about whether they are genuine. Yes there is a bit of lily gilding with medical symptoms but insurance companies expect that and get their own doctors. The narrative being pushed by the insurance companies is somewhat disingenuous.
Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.
This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.
How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 05, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.
This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.
How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?
Whats the nature of the claims Dinny? Its something that I have seen become contentious in a local community hall that is used for pilates/Yoga/Ciruits etc. Too many people on the committee doing favours for friends and after a minor incident (no claims or anything) the question was raised about whether the hall was actually insured for these activities there were a lot of blank faces.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 05, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.
This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.
How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?
I think the GAA present their entire portfolio of clubhouses throughout the country as one entity nearly and this makes it easier for an insurance company to accept the risk spread across so many buildings etc. They GAA then advise the clubs the premiums they have to pay each year based on what the new premium is. It can be quite unfair in that clubs with no claims have seen their premium rise significantly in recent years but at least they can get insured.
A one off Rugby club is not an attractive proposition. It would be worth the AIL/IRFU doing something similar or this will become more common!!
PS. No bouncy castles!!!!!!!
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 05, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.
This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.
How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?
Could the IRFU not sort it out?
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 05, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.
This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.
How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?
Could the IRFU not sort it out?
You would like to think so but the IFRU's primary focus is the professional game. Not sure they would have any governance around this type of scenario.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 05, 2019, 03:13:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 05, 2019, 11:51:16 AM
Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.
This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.
How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?
Could the IRFU not sort it out?
You would like to think so but the IFRU's primary focus is the professional game. Not sure they would have any governance around this type of scenario.
They could help out with a guarantee or something while cover is secured elsewhere
This is market failure.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/athy-rfc-avoids-closure-after-securing-insurance-cover-38760603.html
John Mulligan
December 6 2019 16:36 PM
The looming closure of one of the country's oldest rugby clubs has been averted after it secured insurance cover.
Athy Rugby Football Club in Co Kildare, which was established in 1880, warned its members earlier this week that it had been unable to obtain public liability insurance and so may have to close the club and its grounds effective from midnight next Monday.
But it has now secured cover, it confirmed this afternoon, leaving the club's committee and its 500 members breathing a collective sigh of relief.
Brendan Conroy, the club's honorary secretary, told members today that it has agreed terms through the Irish Rugby Football Union and Aon for insurance cover with Aviva Insurance.
"We are, therefore, pleased to confirm that this matter has been resolved and that we can continue to focus on developing this successful rugby club for the benefit of our members," he said.