America`s Gun Culture

[AZOffaly]

i stand to be corrected but i think the father would have been within his rights to blow the heads off these f**kers.
the family would probably end up being even more traumatized from that though...

He would have, and I'd have no sympathy, but if they had guns too, or managed to wrestle it off him (there were 7 of them I think), what are the chances there'd have been at least some of the family killed?

[muppet]

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/01/us/kentucky-accidential-shooting/

2 years ago but still horrific.

The shooting that took the life of Caroline Sparks in southern Kentucky has been ruled an accident, Kentucky State Police Trooper Billy Gregory said.

A Kentucky mother stepped outside of her home just for a few minutes, but it was long enough for her 5-year-old son to accidentally shoot and kill his 2-year-old sister with the .22-caliber rifle he got for his birthday, state officials said.

"It's just one of those nightmares," he said, "a quick thing that happens when you turn your back."

Young children in the area are often introduced to guns at an early age, Gregory said.

"In this part of the country, it's not uncommon for a 5-year-old to have a gun or for a parent to pass one down to their kid," he said.

Her family kept the Crickett rifle in what they considered to be a safe spot, Cumberland County Coroner Gary White told the CNN affiliate.

[The Iceman]

I've been through some crazy times in America, brought on by natural disasters. Hurricane Irene and hurricane Sandy, 1 mile from the water in NJ. We had no power, there was no food deliveries in to the shops, there was hardly any petrol. I've seen with my eyes what becomes of people when this happens. Lining up for petrol at the petrol station there were a few fist fights, after a week one man was shot.  People get desperate. No food, no petrol for transport or power for a generator, everything runs off of electricity. People go mad. These said mad people have guns.  That's the extreme end of the equation I know.
The other side is the burglary. I have secured windows and doors downstairs. There is no way to get to the upstairs windows unless they are ninjas. By the time someone gets in to the house I will have time to grab the gun - it's literally a 5 second grab and already loaded.  Again I see the chances of any of this happening to be very slim - but you never know.

I agree and take responsibility that I add to the statistics and in some way may increase the chance of accidents but I try hard to secure the weapon, make sure my kids understand what it is and I know how to use it properly.  My Mrs' Dad is a retired federal sergeant, her brother is a sergeant and SWAT team chief.  I've spent enough time with both of them to weigh up the risks.

[muppet]

I've been through some crazy times in America, brought on by natural disasters. Hurricane Irene and hurricane Sandy, 1 mile from the water in NJ. We had no power, there was no food deliveries in to the shops, there was hardly any petrol. I've seen with my eyes what becomes of people when this happens. Lining up for petrol at the petrol station there were a few fist fights, after a week one man was shot.  People get desperate. No food, no petrol for transport or power for a generator, everything runs off of electricity. People go mad. These said mad people have guns.  That's the extreme end of the equation I know.
The other side is the burglary. I have secured windows and doors downstairs. There is no way to get to the upstairs windows unless they are ninjas. By the time someone gets in to the house I will have time to grab the gun - it's literally a 5 second grab and already loaded.  Again I see the chances of any of this happening to be very slim - but you never know.

I agree and take responsibility that I add to the statistics and in some way may increase the chance of accidents but I try hard to secure the weapon, make sure my kids understand what it is and I know how to use it properly.  My Mrs' Dad is a retired federal sergeant, her brother is a sergeant and SWAT team chief.  I've spent enough time with both of them to weigh up the risks.

Would taking the guns off them not make sense then?

[The Iceman]

of course it would - but like I said we are passed the point of no return over here. How do you get the guns off them?

[easytiger95]

i think the first move you make is to put an amnesty in place, i honestly think that you'd be surprised by the results. Remember that public opinion is consistently ahead of political parties on this issue, so I think whoever is doing the reforming needs to speak directly to the citizens.

It has to be one step at a time, a process of normalization. Pick the low hanging fruit first - background checks excluding convicted felons, people with a history of mental illness, domestic abusers. Then mandatory waiting periods, tighten up the second hand gun market and regulate gun fairs. I don't think the much trumpeted "law abiding gun owner" could have much of a problem with any of the above.

Above all, keep it out of the national political arena - as long as the NRA can fan fears of a possible 2nd Amendment repeal, then the Republicans will vote en bloc to stymie any gun control. Obama needs to exhaust the executive actions he can take, make sure that all existing federal laws are rigorously enforced, and then engage on a state by state basis, especially with Republican governors in states where mass shootings have occurred.

Saying that it won't change precludes all possibility of change. I don't think the Australian model is going to work for the US - the question is figuring out a US model that will.

[stew]

i think the first move you make is to put an amnesty in place, i honestly think that you'd be surprised by the results. Remember that public opinion is consistently ahead of political parties on this issue, so I think whoever is doing the reforming needs to speak directly to the citizens.

It has to be one step at a time, a process of normalization. Pick the low hanging fruit first - background checks excluding convicted felons, people with a history of mental illness, domestic abusers. Then mandatory waiting periods, tighten up the second hand gun market and regulate gun fairs. I don't think the much trumpeted "law abiding gun owner" could have much of a problem with any of the above.

Above all, keep it out of the national political arena - as long as the NRA can fan fears of a possible 2nd Amendment repeal, then the Republicans will vote en bloc to stymie any gun control. Obama needs to exhaust the executive actions he can take, make sure that all existing federal laws are rigorously enforced, and then engage on a state by state basis, especially with Republican governors in states where mass shootings have occurred.

Saying that it won't change precludes all possibility of change. I don't think the Australian model is going to work for the US - the question is figuring out a US model that will.

The NRA are one of the strongest organizations on the planet, they have tremendous support across the country and they own the Politicans.

Guns will never be taken off the people, they wouldn't let it happen.

Amnesty sounds good but I know a fair few gun owners and they are never for letting their weapons go and site the constitution etc.

I have to laugh at that Dog Clinton, she say's she is going to get the guns off the streets but has no clue as how to go about it, she is as bad a Trump!

[easytiger95]

the same sentiments were articulated in Australia Stew, but they were very surprised with the response. I don't think the two countries are directly comparable, but you'll never know until you try.

Perhaps the most depressing part of this for outsiders looking in is the almost nihilistic view of all participants - "cold dead hands" from the NRA et al and "they'll never give them up" from anyone else. That cycle has to be broken - it suits only the NRA and it completely ignores the fact that the general public are in favour of reform.

The first thing you could do is stress the point of an amnesty - it is voluntary. Steer all rhetoric away from repeal or any mention of seizures, small steps at first. I don't think an Australian"Big Bang" all at once approach will work.

BTW "that Dog Clinton??!!" What's that all about?

[easytiger95]

As for for Clinton's gun credentials, her husband did pass the last major reform of the gun laws - The Brady Bill - though is has since lapsed, as far as I know?

[muppet]

Ben Carson: "I never saw a body with bullet holes that was more devastating than taking the right to arm ourselves away."

Mike Huckabee: "We have not so much a gun problem; we have a problem with sin and evil. This is an evil thing, when people kill another person."

Bobby Jindal: "This killer's father is now lecturing us on the need for gun control and he says he has no idea how or where his son got the guns... You know why he doesn't know? Because he is not, and has never been in his son's life. He's a complete failure as a father, he should be embarrassed to even show his face in public. He's the problem here."

Jeb Bush: "We're in a difficult time in our country, and I don't think more government is necessarily the answer to this. I think we need to re-connect ourselves with everybody else."

John Kasich: "You can strip all the guns away but the people who are going to commit crimes or have problems are always going to have the guns and more and more people feel like I'd like to be able to protect myself."

Hillary Clinton: "What is wrong with us, that we can't stand up to the NRA and the gun lobby, and the gun manufacturers they represent? You know, this is not just tragic. We don't just need to pray for people. We need to act, and we need to build a movement.

Bernie Sanders: "I don't know that anybody knows what the magic solution is. What we do know is the current solution is not tenable, it is clearly not working... You got a whole lot of states in this country where people want virtually no gun control at all. And if we are going to have some success, we are going to have to start talking to each other."

[JimStynes]

Not reading back through the thread so can someone summarise it. Do people generally agree that America should have tighter gun controls or are there some people playing the 'We need more guns to protect ourselves' card?

[whitey]

http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/injury-surveillance/violentdeaths/homicide-bulletin-2009.pdf


Theres are huge disparities in the homicide rate depending on Race, Geography and Economics.

In Massachusetts the homicide rate for a white person was 1.1 per 100,000.  (2005-2009)

Ireland homicide rate for calendar year 2012 was actually higher 1.2 per 100,000

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rate-of-homicide-among-highest-in-europe-265006.html


Currently in Massachusetts there are 355,000 people who are legally permitted to own a firearm

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/20/gun-laws-tightened-mass-number-permits-spiked/KDbdE52Cvdf4xNfIL4r0hN/story.html

So the law abiding "gun mad yanks" in Massachusetts actually have a lower homicide rate than in Ireland where guns are effectively prohibited

(Most murders in the Africann American community occur in inner city no go areas where white people would and should never set foot in. So while tragic, these murders really have little bearing on the day to day danger faced by the greater population)

[Puckoon]

http://smartgunlaws.org/massachusetts-state-law-summary/

http://smartgunlaws.org/category/state-private-sales-of-guns/page/2/

MA has some of the more stringent gun laws (CA aside) in the USA, which makes it unsurprising at its lower levels of homocides (for white people  ).

[stew]

http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/injury-surveillance/violentdeaths/homicide-bulletin-2009.pdf


Theres are huge disparities in the homicide rate depending on Race, Geography and Economics.

In Massachusetts the homicide rate for a white person was 1.1 per 100,000.  (2005-2009)

Ireland homicide rate for calendar year 2012 was actually higher 1.2 per 100,000

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rate-of-homicide-among-highest-in-europe-265006.html


Currently in Massachusetts there are 355,000 people who are legally permitted to own a firearm

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/20/gun-laws-tightened-mass-number-permits-spiked/KDbdE52Cvdf4xNfIL4r0hN/story.html

So the law abiding "gun mad yanks" in Massachusetts actually have a lower homicide rate than in Ireland where guns are effectively prohibited

(Most murders in the Africann American community occur in inner city no go areas where white people would and should never set foot in. So while tragic, these murders really have little bearing on the day to day danger faced by the greater population)

Remember Children, Mass is a very liberal State, card carrying republicans they are not!

[whitey]

http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/injury-surveillance/violentdeaths/homicide-bulletin-2009.pdf


Theres are huge disparities in the homicide rate depending on Race, Geography and Economics.

In Massachusetts the homicide rate for a white person was 1.1 per 100,000.  (2005-2009)

Ireland homicide rate for calendar year 2012 was actually higher 1.2 per 100,000

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rate-of-homicide-among-highest-in-europe-265006.html


Currently in Massachusetts there are 355,000 people who are legally permitted to own a firearm

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/20/gun-laws-tightened-mass-number-permits-spiked/KDbdE52Cvdf4xNfIL4r0hN/story.html

So the law abiding "gun mad yanks" in Massachusetts actually have a lower homicide rate than in Ireland where guns are effectively prohibited

(Most murders in the Africann American community occur in inner city no go areas where white people would and should never set foot in. So while tragic, these murders really have little bearing on the day to day danger faced by the greater population)

Remember Children, Mass is a very liberal State, card carrying republicans they are not!

I'd hazard a guess that the majority of permit holders are Republicans....at least most of the permit holders I know are.

And last November MA elected a Republican governor.....so while still overwhelmingly Blue.....there are tons of Republicans and Independents here

http://ivn.us/2014/10/30/how-mass-republican-charlie-baker-is-winning-with-independent-voters/