The GAA Rat Race

[seafoid]

How many counties have a realistic chance of winning the AI over the next 5 years??

5/6 at a push?? Is that any different to the past where the big sides dominated and you had the odd bolter - Offaly, Ulster sides etc...

It is different.

Any of the sides could have come a cropper in their provinces up to recently. This hasn't been a problem for Dublin and to a lesser extant Mayo for a while. Kerry and Cork obviously have seen no change there but if the likes of Down can't get their players training the same as, say Donegal, then there will be much less a chance of shocks happening in future in Ulster as well.

Dublin might rule the roost in Leinster for a while and Kerry will always be handy but I wouldn't put money on either Mayo or Donegal having their provinces to themselves over the next 5 years.

[muppet]

How many counties have a realistic chance of winning the AI over the next 5 years??

5/6 at a push?? Is that any different to the past where the big sides dominated and you had the odd bolter - Offaly, Ulster sides etc...

It is different.

Any of the sides could have come a cropper in their provinces up to recently. This hasn't been a problem for Dublin and to a lesser extant Mayo for a while. Kerry and Cork obviously have seen no change there but if the likes of Down can't get their players training the same as, say Donegal, then there will be much less a chance of shocks happening in future in Ulster as well.

Dublin might rule the roost in Leinster for a while and Kerry will always be handy but I wouldn't put money on either Mayo or Donegal having their provinces to themselves over the next 5 years.

I was narrowing it to up to 8 teams rather than less than 4. I don't see to many of the old style shocks any more, e.g. All-Ireland Champions going down in their Province.

[manfromdelmonte]

you wouldn't do 4 field sessions in a row. that would be madness
two days might be strength sessions, or a pool, or a long cycle or run to loosen out.

I've often trained 9/10 times for a week or two - morning and evening sessions, mixture of cardio and S&C sessions with lots of eating, sleep and mid day naps.
if you are able to recover properly the benefits can be huge.

[screenexile]

I remember seeing an interview with Paul Brady. He said that he trained 17 times a week. He's the best handballer there's ever been.

In saying that, I think he did have a rest day in there.

He's also a professional though is he not??

[thewobbler]

To be honest I don't think any elite athlete is going to get bothered about training hard for their sport.

The problems that GAA county teams face though are:

1. You'll have lads coming from a wide geographic area to train. For a lot of lads on a panel it's straight to training from work, then a meeting, then a long drive home, and straight to bed (otherwise they'll sleep in any miss S&C in the morning). That's a gruelling routine 3 times a week.

2. There's a Catch 22 in football in that you have to knock your bollocks in to stand any chance of success, but most teams and most players know before the start of a season that they'll be winning nothing at all.


Growing up I seem to remember that ANY championship win was worth celebrating (in much the same way rugby internationals still are).

Nowadays teams don't even celebrate winning provincial titles, and a national league title win doesn't even raise a murmur of a smile.

I put a lot of this blame on the back door. Once upon a time you knocked your bollocks out with a single specific goal of winning round 1. If you did, it was worth celebrating, worth working harder again, as there were now only 3 teams could stop you winning your province, and only 15 could stop you winning an AI. If you didn't, it was easy street for 6 months.

[ardtole]

Id have to agree with you Wobbler, the fun seems to have gone out of it, 5 nights training a week before christmas is ridiculous. Players dont seem to have any life outside football anymore. Even when they do win its just a step on the way to bigger, more ultimate goals.

[seafoid]

To be honest I don't think any elite athlete is going to get bothered about training hard for their sport.

The problems that GAA county teams face though are:

1. You'll have lads coming from a wide geographic area to train. For a lot of lads on a panel it's straight to training from work, then a meeting, then a long drive home, and straight to bed (otherwise they'll sleep in any miss S&C in the morning). That's a gruelling routine 3 times a week.

2. There's a Catch 22 in football in that you have to knock your bollocks in to stand any chance of success, but most teams and most players know before the start of a season that they'll be winning nothing at all.


Growing up I seem to remember that ANY championship win was worth celebrating (in much the same way rugby internationals still are).

Nowadays teams don't even celebrate winning provincial titles, and a national league title win doesn't even raise a murmur of a smile.

I put a lot of this blame on the back door. Once upon a time you knocked your bollocks out with a single specific goal of winning round 1. If you did, it was worth celebrating, worth working harder again, as there were now only 3 teams could stop you winning your province, and only 15 could stop you winning an AI. If you didn't, it was easy street for 6 months.

A lot of the Qualifier matches are boring as well.
there is very little excitement in the football championship before August

[Pangurban]

I want to watch Footballers, not super bulked up athletes devoid of basic skills. Time to stop this madness, which is destroying the whole character of our sport

[INDIANA]

Why 5 nights a week? Surely the body needs a days rest in between training sessions? I'm no training expert but training everyday makes no sense whatsoever.

You're essentially trying to fit the workload of a professional athlete into an amateur structure. I think it's gone mad myself but if you're coaching at this level you've no choice because you won't be competitive otherwise. To me the season should be shorter, have more games and club championships not played until July.

The new fad for the first 3-4 months is to do double sessions on Tuesdays and Thursdays with a saturday and sunday session and give guys the days off in between. So six sessions in 7 days.

Then the following week will look like

Gym 6am Monday
Training Tuesday 7.30pm- pitch
Gym 6am Wednesday
Thursday 7.30pm -pitch
friday  6am - gym
Saturday - 11am -pitch
You get Sunday off!

then back into the tuesday/thursday double session cycle. The top 6 counties all train like the above structure. I know that for a fact.

The big issue for me as a coach who has the background in S&C is the load factor. If you're trying to bulk lads up - how can you do it safely when lads are sprinting the following night. The fact is you're on a wing and a prayer. It's a game based on short sharp bursts which means everything that is done- has to be done at speed. You're trying to give as much rest as possible. 36 hours is the maximum that one can get.

That's why so many teams have so many players injured at once and have to carry squads of 35-37 players. Because at any one time you're guaranteed to have 8-10 injured.

Nutrition is huge for an amateur player. You literally have to lumping protein into at every available opportunity when in this cycle. There are professional players in the GAA already- called students. They live like pro athletes and as a result most guys play their best football between 18-25.

This idea that GAA players at county level peak in their late 20's - rubbish- their best football is long played at that level. Once they start working 9-5 -it's the beginning of the end. The human body can only sustain the above until 30 unless they have no job or are teachers.

Not enough money in the game to be professional. It would be a disaster for the Association. But they've got to do something about the training and shorten the bloody season.

[BennyCake]

I want to watch Footballers, not super bulked up athletes devoid of basic skills. Time to stop this madness, which is destroying the whole character of our sport

I agree, but it's not going to happen any time soon.

[INDIANA]

you wouldn't do 4 field sessions in a row. that would be madness
two days might be strength sessions, or a pool, or a long cycle or run to loosen out.

I've often trained 9/10 times for a week or two - morning and evening sessions, mixture of cardio and S&C sessions with lots of eating, sleep and mid day naps.
if you are able to recover properly the benefits can be huge.

People using the triathlon analogy doesn't wash in my view. I've done triathlons myself as many have here as well.

But there is no comparison to the load factor of collision sports. You could train twice a day for a triathlon four days in a row no problem and fit work into it if you had to. Provided you ate right and slept well and didn't have kids - it wouldn't be a huge imposition.

Unless you're training for the Olympic triathlon in Rio or a serious time in an Iron-man event there is no comparison. You do a huge amount of training alright. But you don't run into anyone, you don't tackle anyone, you're not twisting or turning. That's why people in their 60's can do them.

[DuffleKing]

Good article in today's Irish News about the rigorous demands on current IC (and Club) footballers.

This year has seen many high profile retirements with many stating they couldn't adhere to 4 or 5 nights a week training, do you think the demands are too high and we are losing quality footballers at too early an age?

In many other sports someone in their early 30s is regarded in their peak. Marty Clarke doesn't look like he is going to commit to Down due to the 5 nights a week training structure. Personally I think it's all gone a bit crazy.

We could end up with a few (say up to elite teams and the rest a long way behind and with little chance of bridging the gap. Once you fall behind you could end up in a vicious cycle of players not interested because of lack of results and lack of results due to players not interested etc.

One of the hidden dangers of allowing the above to develop is that the small few elite counties would have a lot of leverage over the system and resources (TV rights).

The top 8 or so teams has always been the case.  Only 12 counties have won the championship in the last 50 years with 3 of those teams being single winners.  This is the nature of all sports though and will always be the way.  It is getting more extreme with the level of commitment that is now expected but it really isn't going to change the status quo.  If we forecast 20 years into the future I would suggest that Kerry will have won 6-8 All Irelands,  Dublin 4-6, and the likes of Donegal, Cork, Tyrone, Down, Galway and maybe even Mayo, Derry or Armagh  will scrap for the rest.  I can't see it being any different to the last 20 years apart from maybe a team pulling a one off run but that is unlikely.

Good article in today's Irish News about the rigorous demands on current IC (and Club) footballers.

This year has seen many high profile retirements with many stating they couldn't adhere to 4 or 5 nights a week training, do you think the demands are too high and we are losing quality footballers at too early an age?

In many other sports someone in their early 30s is regarded in their peak. Marty Clarke doesn't look like he is going to commit to Down due to the 5 nights a week training structure. Personally I think it's all gone a bit crazy.

There's no way teams are training 5 nights a week. This is a myth.

Armagh players are currently expected to train mornings and evening 4 days a week and on a Saturday as well, that is why there have been a number of retirements and players leaving the training panel.

Not like you to be off the mark on these things Bc but that's simply not true. They are training 4 times a week.

[Max Payne]

Why 5 nights a week? Surely the body needs a days rest in between training sessions? I'm no training expert but training everyday makes no sense whatsoever.

You're essentially trying to fit the workload of a professional athlete into an amateur structure. I think it's gone mad myself but if you're coaching at this level you've no choice because you won't be competitive otherwise. To me the season should be shorter, have more games and club championships not played until July.

The new fad for the first 3-4 months is to do double sessions on Tuesdays and Thursdays with a saturday and sunday session and give guys the days off in between. So six sessions in 7 days.

Then the following week will look like

Gym 6am Monday
Training Tuesday 7.30pm- pitch
Gym 6am Wednesday
Thursday 7.30pm -pitch
friday  6am - gym
Saturday - 11am -pitch
You get Sunday off!

then back into the tuesday/thursday double session cycle. The top 6 counties all train like the above structure. I know that for a fact.

The big issue for me as a coach who has the background in S&C is the load factor. If you're trying to bulk lads up - how can you do it safely when lads are sprinting the following night. The fact is you're on a wing and a prayer. It's a game based on short sharp bursts which means everything that is done- has to be done at speed. You're trying to give as much rest as possible. 36 hours is the maximum that one can get.

That's why so many teams have so many players injured at once and have to carry squads of 35-37 players. Because at any one time you're guaranteed to have 8-10 injured.

Nutrition is huge for an amateur player. You literally have to lumping protein into at every available opportunity when in this cycle. There are professional players in the GAA already- called students. They live like pro athletes and as a result most guys play their best football between 18-25.

This idea that GAA players at county level peak in their late 20's - rubbish- their best football is long played at that level. Once they start working 9-5 -it's the beginning of the end. The human body can only sustain the above until 30 unless they have no job or are teachers.

Not enough money in the game to be professional. It would be a disaster for the Association. But they've got to do something about the training and shorten the bloody season.

Teachers get a rough time of it too.

[ONeill]

No they don't.

[Sea The Stars]

I would agree with the tone of the posts on here. The demands are too high. The training schedule of county teams might come as a surprise to some but the reality is it's not being exaggerated. Who's to blame though? Is it the GAA for allowing the culture of training like a professional get out of control?

A few weeks ago Colm O'Rourke questioned the GPA about it's role within the organization. The response from the players was a united one. I got the impression the players are okay with what's being asked of them. For me though, the only way the demands will stop increasing is if the players themselves take a stand. At present the rules and regulations are very grey around this. There's a collective training ban depending on when you're knocked out but we all know managers are exploiting this and finding ways around it. In fairness, was it this time last year, Wexford took a stand against an under-age manager who was asking too much? But at the end of the day if the players, the men and women who makes the games happen, are happy to continue training like mad, then nothing will change.

Also on the training schedule, I think some people might still have an idea of training involving players doing loads of laps and a game. Nowadays though, there are weights sessions, running sessions, nutrition sessions, ball-work sessions, video-analysis sessions, probably a few more things too. It's a 24/7 job too, it's not the physical work, it's the mental preparation too. For example your diet and your sleep. Neil McGee said recently you'd be getting your yourself psyched up for a Donegal training, the moment you got out of bed. That's the level you have to be operating at.