Westminster Election 12th December 2019

Started by Ambrose, October 29, 2019, 02:24:04 PM

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Maroon Manc

Corbyn doesn't help himself with his latest tweet in support of McDonalds staff wanting £15 an hour. Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.




Minder

Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Corbyn doesn't help himself with his latest tweet in support of McDonalds staff wanting £15 an hour. Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

For the many, not the Jews
"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us"

weareros

Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 12:30:20 PM
Ok I get that this might be a slightly better deal than N/S checks or a border in Ireland. My point is more to do with people thinking it's funny that the DUP have been ditched. As if the consequences are completely localised to the DUP and their voters. It's such a naive view. This deal (which is awful) will have an economic impact on NI for years. So it must be opposed and in my view, we need to elect MPs who will go to Westminster and vote against it.

The danger there is that many who would oppose it - like the DUP - would prefer a Hard Brexit; indeed they have voted for a Hard Brexit. That is a thousand times worse than the Boris deal. At this stage, the Boris deal is the lesser of two economic evils.

armaghniac

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 12, 2019, 11:47:52 AM
The Tories entire electoral strategy is based on the assumption that most or enough people are thick. So thick they'll swallow the contionuos and unrelenting smears from 95% of the British media and distill it down to ridiculous assertions like "nationalise everything" as we saw earlier in this thread. Their strategy is underpinned by a horribly unequal education system so it's a solid bet unfortunately.

However, the way to beat this is not taking it on. It's to have a consistent and solid ground game and engage people on a more close and personal basis. Labour is doing this and will fight an incredible fight in this regard. Despite the horrific things he has been smeared with, the general consensus of those who've met him is that Corbyn is an absolute gentleman, full of empathy and respect and dignity. His consistency in his political viewpoints is undeniable. If wanting good healthcare, good education and equality are communism well then I guess I'm a communist too! The reality is that these fanciful labels like "communist", "Stalinist" and "socialist" are trotted out by the rich and powerful because they're afraid. Not just afraid of having to pay more taxes. They're afraid that everyone will get a chance in life similar to what their families and friends have had for generations.

It just amazes me that Corbyn is seen as a "threat". There is no bigger threat to Britain & Ireland, Europe than the Tories. With the Tories you're guaranteed a no-deal or bad deal Brexit and the economic carnage that will ensue. Who do you think they'll prioritise when the shit hits the fan? Labour offers the prospect of remain or a less damaging Brexit. And a fair chance for everyone. Properly funded public services.

Corbyn might be admired for consistency in his political principles. However, the problem is that he is perceived to be more interested in principle than actual achievements. Actual achievement sometimes requires pragmatism, and the perception is that Corbyn and his allies will not show such pragmatism. In creating this perception they have done Britain a huge disservice, as they have not really opposed the Tories effectively, allowing them carry on with damaging policies.

Quote from: tyrone08 on November 12, 2019, 12:50:44 PM
Spot on but you underestimate how thick the normal brit is. All you see on the news is smearing of labour and JC. It's ironic that given the age of smart phones we now have the ability to check or disprove any claim within a few minutes on Google. Unfortunately it seems the vast majority can't be bothered to do so.

Exactly. All sorts of lies circulate, for instance the idea that Ireland sends most of its exports to Britain, which could be checked in 10 seconds on Google. But people can't be bothered with the truth
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

five points

Quote from: tyrone08 on November 12, 2019, 12:50:44 PM
Spot on but you underestimate how thick the normal brit is. All you see on the news is smearing of labour and JC. It's ironic that given the age of smart phones we now have the ability to check or disprove any claim within a few minutes on Google. Unfortunately it seems the vast majority can't be bothered to do so.

The Irish are no brighter, except we've only had a socialist education system since the 90s. They've had one since the 60s.

JPGJOHNNYG

What is wrong with Alliance party at the minute. They seemed to have lost the plot recently.
They recently had the dodgy leaflet about how they were 1% behind DUP in SA and now for their latest bullshit

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159216665739741&id=10642639740&anchor_composer=false

They have taken the rather dubious August lucid talk poll which seems to have gone to their head and they now have magically allocated the SF votes. I noticed they havent even the wit to allocate the Green vote who also have steeped aside

five points

Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2019, 01:19:30 PM
Exactly. All sorts of lies circulate, for instance the idea that Ireland sends most of its exports to Britain, which could be checked in 10 seconds on Google. But people can't be bothered with the truth

Most of our 'real economy' ie non-tech exports are to Britain. You'll only see a handful of Irish products on the average French or German supermarket shelf.

smelmoth

Quote from: johnnycool on November 12, 2019, 10:31:18 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 12, 2019, 08:44:27 AM
Guys look I know it's great to gloat that the DUP have been fucked over and "border down the Irish sea" but this is a really shit deal for NI. While yes the DUP have been fucked over unfortunately we're all going to be pushed under that bus.
This is a shit deal that involves loads of more paperwork and red tape. It puts barriers on trade between East/West. In short it's terrible but it's terrible for everyone not just DUP voters.

The only "good deal" is the status quo, i.e. remain in the EU.

yes, were all going to suffer due to the right wing nut jobs in the Tory party and their mates in the DUVF (stole that from someone else).
A UI and return to the EU can't come quick enough.



Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2019, 08:02:59 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2019, 05:14:12 PM
Surely to get "Brexit done" the Tories will need a majority, and to do that gain current Labour seats. Brexit party will surely cut into Tory vote in some Labour seats. I don't think it's as straightforward as some think
Me neither

Read somewhere that in the European elections that for every 3 votes the Brexit party got, two were from the Tories and one from Labour.

If that ratio persists in the forthcoming General election then Labour may hold more seats than they're expected to lose them.
European elections were almost like a protest vote and parties that did well aren't inclined to do as well in a GE.


Tories are going to lose out in Scotland so they need to make up that shortfall elsewhere and then some to have a majority.

It's looking like another hung parliament.  :o

Depends on where the Leave voters live. There is some analysis that says Leave wins a GE by a landslide due to the distribution of votes.

smelmoth

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 12, 2019, 11:47:52 AM
The Tories entire electoral strategy is based on the assumption that most or enough people are thick. So thick they'll swallow the contionuos and unrelenting smears from 95% of the British media and distill it down to ridiculous assertions like "nationalise everything" as we saw earlier in this thread. Their strategy is underpinned by a horribly unequal education system so it's a solid bet unfortunately.

However, the way to beat this is not taking it on. It's to have a consistent and solid ground game and engage people on a more close and personal basis. Labour is doing this and will fight an incredible fight in this regard. Despite the horrific things he has been smeared with, the general consensus of those who've met him is that Corbyn is an absolute gentleman, full of empathy and respect and dignity. His consistency in his political viewpoints is undeniable. If wanting good healthcare, good education and equality are communism well then I guess I'm a communist too! The reality is that these fanciful labels like "communist", "Stalinist" and "socialist" are trotted out by the rich and powerful because they're afraid. Not just afraid of having to pay more taxes. They're afraid that everyone will get a chance in life similar to what their families and friends have had for generations.

It just amazes me that Corbyn is seen as a "threat". There is no bigger threat to Britain & Ireland, Europe than the Tories. With the Tories you're guaranteed a no-deal or bad deal Brexit and the economic carnage that will ensue. Who do you think they'll prioritise when the shit hits the fan? Labour offers the prospect of remain or a less damaging Brexit. And a fair chance for everyone. Properly funded public services.

I'm there

yellowcard

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 12, 2019, 11:47:52 AM
The Tories entire electoral strategy is based on the assumption that most or enough people are thick. So thick they'll swallow the contionuos and unrelenting smears from 95% of the British media and distill it down to ridiculous assertions like "nationalise everything" as we saw earlier in this thread. Their strategy is underpinned by a horribly unequal education system so it's a solid bet unfortunately.

However, the way to beat this is not taking it on. It's to have a consistent and solid ground game and engage people on a more close and personal basis. Labour is doing this and will fight an incredible fight in this regard. Despite the horrific things he has been smeared with, the general consensus of those who've met him is that Corbyn is an absolute gentleman, full of empathy and respect and dignity. His consistency in his political viewpoints is undeniable. If wanting good healthcare, good education and equality are communism well then I guess I'm a communist too! The reality is that these fanciful labels like "communist", "Stalinist" and "socialist" are trotted out by the rich and powerful because they're afraid. Not just afraid of having to pay more taxes. They're afraid that everyone will get a chance in life similar to what their families and friends have had for generations.

It just amazes me that Corbyn is seen as a "threat". There is no bigger threat to Britain & Ireland, Europe than the Tories. With the Tories you're guaranteed a no-deal or bad deal Brexit and the economic carnage that will ensue. Who do you think they'll prioritise when the shit hits the fan? Labour offers the prospect of remain or a less damaging Brexit. And a fair chance for everyone. Properly funded public services.

Very well put.

Corbyn is genuine and somebody I could relate to. I wouldn't necessarily agree with all of his policies but his intentions are real in looking for a fairer society where the wealthy contribute more in tax for a better education system and health care for all. Those ERG upper class privately educated Tories are totally removed from the real world, theirs is a life of privilege. A bunch of me feiners. The majority of the print & broadcast media are Tory leaning and this can have an influence on voters perceptions particularly for those who don't delve into the details. There is a real fear of a Corbyn led government within large sections of UK media and political circles and I expect that the continuous smears will heighten as the election gets closer.

seafoid

Quote from: Minder on November 12, 2019, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Corbyn doesn't help himself with his latest tweet in support of McDonalds staff wanting £15 an hour. Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

For the many, not the Jews
Nobody mentioned antisemitism in Labour until 2015 when Corbyn became leader. Israel runs apartheid in Gaza and the West Bank and young people have turned against it because of the human rights abuses. This was a huge shock to the Zionist elite in the UK who thought that UK support for whatever Israel did was guaranteed. All of the major Zionists orgs in the UK went after Corbyn.
Sanders in the US has equated antisemitism to the oppression of the Palestinians. Things are changing and Zionists don't like it.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Denn Forever

Wasn't it something he wouldn't sign?  A particular phrase?
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

five points

Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2019, 01:44:52 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 12, 2019, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Corbyn doesn't help himself with his latest tweet in support of McDonalds staff wanting £15 an hour. Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

For the many, not the Jews
Nobody mentioned antisemitism in Labour until 2015 when Corbyn became leader. Israel runs apartheid in Gaza and the West Bank and young people have turned against it because of the human rights abuses. This was a huge shock to the Zionist elite in the UK who thought that UK support for whatever Israel did was guaranteed. All of the major Zionists orgs in the UK went after Corbyn.
Sanders in the US has equated antisemitism to the oppression of the Palestinians. Things are changing and Zionists don't like it.

There is no apartheid in Gaza or the West Bank. Israel doesn't even run Gaza, with its luxury hotels (check Booking.com), shopping, apartments and world class beach. Your "zionist elite" and "zionists don't like it" barbs fall within the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism.

Crete Boom

Quote from: five points on November 12, 2019, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on November 12, 2019, 12:50:44 PM
Spot on but you underestimate how thick the normal brit is. All you see on the news is smearing of labour and JC. It's ironic that given the age of smart phones we now have the ability to check or disprove any claim within a few minutes on Google. Unfortunately it seems the vast majority can't be bothered to do so.

The Irish are no brighter, except we've only had a socialist education system since the 90s. They've had one since the 60s.

What the f**k are you on about? I went to school in the 90's and it was a bog standard shitbox cold all boys catholic secondary school. It was only socialist in that teachers and students were both subject to the same freezing cold dump buildings with f**k all resources!!

seafoid

Quote from: five points on November 12, 2019, 01:56:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 12, 2019, 01:44:52 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 12, 2019, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on November 12, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Corbyn doesn't help himself with his latest tweet in support of McDonalds staff wanting £15 an hour. Minimum wage is £8.21 an hour for someone aged 25 and over.

For the many, not the Jews
Nobody mentioned antisemitism in Labour until 2015 when Corbyn became leader. Israel runs apartheid in Gaza and the West Bank and young people have turned against it because of the human rights abuses. This was a huge shock to the Zionist elite in the UK who thought that UK support for whatever Israel did was guaranteed. All of the major Zionists orgs in the UK went after Corbyn.
Sanders in the US has equated antisemitism to the oppression of the Palestinians. Things are changing and Zionists don't like it.

There is no apartheid in Gaza or the West Bank. Israel doesn't even run Gaza, with its luxury hotels (check Booking.com), shopping, apartments and world class beach. Your "zionist elite" and "zionists don't like it" barbs fall within the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism.

There sure is apartheid. Jews in Israel/Palestine earn 10-15 times what Palestinians do.
That's apartheid.
Israel runs the population register in Gaza and remains the occupier. 
The IHRA definition counts anti Zionism as hatred of Jews.
It's bollocks. 
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU