China Coronavirus

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Plausible reasons do not equate to factual evidence. That comes down to painstaking epidemiology, assessment of confounders and determination of causation as opposed to an association.
         

yes, I deliberately used that word as I didn't want to get into quoting studies (a quick google brings some up) etc. as then it all about MSM pushing agendas etc.

[grounded]

Plausible reasons do not equate to factual evidence. That comes down to painstaking epidemiology, assessment of confounders and determination of causation as opposed to an association.
         

yes, I deliberately used that word as I didn't want to get into quoting studies (a quick google brings some up) etc. as then it all about MSM pushing agendas etc.

That's quite plausible. I think the point a few other are making is that they are concerned that there doesn't seem to be any great deal of concern in government or health authorities in relation to the reason for the excess deaths figures

[Last Man]

Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

[grounded]

Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

They do collect the data though? It's called the MHRA yellow card scheme.

But the yellow card scheme run by MHRA is solely for collecting and monitoring information on safety concerns such as suspected side effects or adverse incidents involving medicines and medical devices.
     The cause of death or contributory cause of death are recorded by the health authorities themselves. 
     If you remember during the lockdown period there was quite a bit of controversy in that there was no or very little consistency in the definition of the cause of death or contributory cause of death between national bodies and also in different bodies within the same countries.
     That's just one difficulty for any epidemiological study looking at excess deaths during that period.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

if you have a point to make, make it... surely reasonable debate can only happen if you put forward your views.. but then again you don't want them open to scrutiny, it easier to keep posting links

[seafoid]

Chrysanthemum sales, used in funerals, are booming in China and highly correlated with Covid deaths.
China recently ended lockdown.

[grounded]

https://goodlawproject.org/ppe-losses-rise-to-14-9-billion/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=DHSC_Annual_Report260123&utm_medium=social%20media

A lot of skullduggery went on in ppe procurement. A lot of money was made.

[Last Man]

Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

if you have a point to make, make it... surely reasonable debate can only happen if you put forward your views.. but then again you don't want them open to scrutiny, it easier to keep posting links

I do find myself minded to listen to people way more expert than me, usually professors, doctors and the like. I try my damdest to listen to all sides even the vegans! I have yet to read anyone cite any hard evidence in the discussion on this board instead relying on anecdotes about "my mate's, mates aunt blah blah" or headlines on the news. The couple of links I have posted do in my opinion if you took the time to watch them put across very reasonable points worthy of consideration. I can't help myself thinking that just accepting the main stream narrative at face value may not be the best personal course of action.
maybe I am wrong but I do get the sense when you write "scrutiny", you actually mean put down, what gets you so irked about it?

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

if you have a point to make, make it... surely reasonable debate can only happen if you put forward your views.. but then again you don't want them open to scrutiny, it easier to keep posting links

I do find myself minded to listen to people way more expert than me, usually professors, doctors and the like. I try my damdest to listen to all sides even the vegans! I have yet to read anyone cite any hard evidence in the discussion on this board instead relying on anecdotes about "my mate's, mates aunt blah blah" or headlines on the news. The couple of links I have posted do in my opinion if you took the time to watch them put across very reasonable points worthy of consideration. I can't help myself thinking that just accepting the main stream narrative at face value may not be the best personal course of action.
maybe I am wrong but I do get the sense when you write "scrutiny", you actually mean put down, what gets you so irked about it?

you appear to be minded to seek out peoples view you agree with that are doctors, professors etc. but  Nphet, the WHO are doctors too but not the type you listen too.

I watched a couple and they were a waste of my time. Not going to waste my time on a random US doctors take.

The fact you use the term 'accepting the mainstream narrative'  tells me something about your mindset but even so, I still like to hear the alternative to lockdown and it irks me that you seem well able to articulate yourself but not just not why Lockdowns were wrong.

[Last Man]

I did find the most up to date data on New Zealand, found it quite quickly while I was having a cuppa with a coulple of hobnobs

The next date to release the latest data below: Wasn't as difficult as he made out lol

Births and deaths: Year ended December 2022 will be released on 20 February 2023.

Yes, pretty sure he said the NZ data was only available up to June 2022, excess deaths up by 9.7% at that point. I am confused as to why there should be nearly a 2 month delay in providing the data for the past 6 months, maybe their IT system is not up to scratch. I will be interested to see what Feb 20th reveals. As a particular end point "death" and its causes certainly is something i have a passing interest in so that I might defer its arrival as long as I can.

[Last Man]

Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

if you have a point to make, make it... surely reasonable debate can only happen if you put forward your views.. but then again you don't want them open to scrutiny, it easier to keep posting links

I do find myself minded to listen to people way more expert than me, usually professors, doctors and the like. I try my damdest to listen to all sides even the vegans! I have yet to read anyone cite any hard evidence in the discussion on this board instead relying on anecdotes about "my mate's, mates aunt blah blah" or headlines on the news. The couple of links I have posted do in my opinion if you took the time to watch them put across very reasonable points worthy of consideration. I can't help myself thinking that just accepting the main stream narrative at face value may not be the best personal course of action.
maybe I am wrong but I do get the sense when you write "scrutiny", you actually mean put down, what gets you so irked about it?

you appear to be minded to seek out peoples view you agree with that are doctors, professors etc. but  Nphet, the WHO are doctors too but not the type you listen too.

I watched a couple and they were a waste of my time. Not going to waste my time on a random US doctors take.

The fact you use the term 'accepting the mainstream narrative'  tells me something about your mindset but even so, I still like to hear the alternative to lockdown and it irks me that you seem well able to articulate yourself but not just not why Lockdowns were wrong.

From a cost benefit perspective they struck me as completely counterintuitive, how could they ever be successful when so much of society had to carry on regardless and so many others took it as an extended holiday regardless of all the crackdown stories in the news. We had twin grandchildren born in April 20 and not once did we consider any bubble arrangements, normal human instincts took over. I often get a sense that our societal lack of resilience will take decades to resolve.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

sorry, I am not following or understanding your points. I understand you think it was counterintuitive but why and what alternative would be better and what the outcome of the alternatives would be.

i don't know what your point is re your grandchildren but I had my first child around then so would be interested in what you point was.

[Seamus]

Cheers, I'll say I got advice from you.  That should do it.

Paddle your own canoe, keep the informed out of it.

[Last Man]

sorry, I am not following or understanding your points. I understand you think it was counterintuitive but why and what alternative would be better and what the outcome of the alternatives would be.

i don't know what your point is re your grandchildren but I had my first child around then so would be interested in what you point was.

Yes I also am sorry that I engaged in this. You not as cute as you think you are.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

sorry, I am not following or understanding your points. I understand you think it was counterintuitive but why and what alternative would be better and what the outcome of the alternatives would be.

i don't know what your point is re your grandchildren but I had my first child around then so would be interested in what you point was.

Yes I also am sorry that I engaged in this. You not as cute as you think you are.

I never claimed to be cute. I engaged to understand your viewpoint. I've not be able to understand it which is maybe my fault and I asked you to explain it so I could or you haven't explained it well enough which would be your fault and you have decided not to bother.