China Coronavirus

[Louther]

Can you please define what a draconian lockdown is so that we can understand the difference between SA, India and those other places that have had it easy compared to us?

Even now Australia has just lifted the final restrictions in Sydney that had limits on indoor gatherings, reduced capacity at outdoor events and wearing of masks. Even with those in place they've been far from our own restrictions this long time. You would envy them.

[Milltown Row2]

So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

New Zealand? Australia? do you feel their lockdowns were draconian?

In other news, since getting the vaccine my internet reception in the house has improved

New Zealand pursued a zero Covid strategy from the outset. That's a different matter, the only effective way to do zero covid was from the outset, no point closing the gate when the horse has bolted.

Most countries had draconian lockdowns in the first wave, I had no issue with it then as it was to buy time and put in place the mechanisms and resources to be able to move forward with but governments failed and lockdowns and spinning us yarns about variants are their only reaction to it. I've given you plenty of examples of countries who have not introduced draconian lockdowns since last summer, comparatively they have not fared any worse than countries who have been in draconian lockdowns since last October?

You don't find yourself questioning the benefits of lockdowns with that in mind?

"No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also" my answer to you!

Did you not read my response to you on this? I said the lockdowns were half arsed and didnt work as well as they should have, they were half arsed because we were half opened. airports, ports holidays and people not following the rules.

So I'll ask again, do you think New Zealand and Australia measures of closing the country down as being draconian?

[Louther]

No haircuts to midsummer? When every barber and hairdresser in the country is working off the books and claiming pandemic payments, they'll be loving it!!

Not sure where these headlines come from but if it's the case be a lot of well off barbers and Hairdressers come the summer.

[Angelo]

So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

New Zealand? Australia? do you feel their lockdowns were draconian?

In other news, since getting the vaccine my internet reception in the house has improved

New Zealand pursued a zero Covid strategy from the outset. That's a different matter, the only effective way to do zero covid was from the outset, no point closing the gate when the horse has bolted.

Most countries had draconian lockdowns in the first wave, I had no issue with it then as it was to buy time and put in place the mechanisms and resources to be able to move forward with but governments failed and lockdowns and spinning us yarns about variants are their only reaction to it. I've given you plenty of examples of countries who have not introduced draconian lockdowns since last summer, comparatively they have not fared any worse than countries who have been in draconian lockdowns since last October?

You don't find yourself questioning the benefits of lockdowns with that in mind?

"No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also" my answer to you!

Did you not read my response to you on this? I said the lockdowns were half arsed and didnt work as well as they should have, they were half arsed because we were half opened. airports, ports holidays and people not following the rules.

So I'll ask again, do you think New Zealand and Australia measures of closing the country down as being draconian?

So the fact that they have not been done right means it's a waste of time doing them unless you're going to do them right?

Are we going to do them right? If we have failed to do them right three times now then what it is the point of it?

I've already said, New Zealand did this right from the start but lockdowns weren't really the success story here - it was them closing their borders.

[GetOverTheBar]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.

[Armagh18]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.

Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels!

[Milltown Row2]

So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

New Zealand? Australia? do you feel their lockdowns were draconian?

In other news, since getting the vaccine my internet reception in the house has improved

New Zealand pursued a zero Covid strategy from the outset. That's a different matter, the only effective way to do zero covid was from the outset, no point closing the gate when the horse has bolted.

Most countries had draconian lockdowns in the first wave, I had no issue with it then as it was to buy time and put in place the mechanisms and resources to be able to move forward with but governments failed and lockdowns and spinning us yarns about variants are their only reaction to it. I've given you plenty of examples of countries who have not introduced draconian lockdowns since last summer, comparatively they have not fared any worse than countries who have been in draconian lockdowns since last October?

You don't find yourself questioning the benefits of lockdowns with that in mind?

"No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also" my answer to you!

Did you not read my response to you on this? I said the lockdowns were half arsed and didnt work as well as they should have, they were half arsed because we were half opened. airports, ports holidays and people not following the rules.

So I'll ask again, do you think New Zealand and Australia measures of closing the country down as being draconian?

So the fact that they have not been done right means it's a waste of time doing them unless you're going to do them right?

Are we going to do them right? If we have failed to do them right three times now then what it is the point of it?

I've already said, New Zealand did this right from the start but lockdowns weren't really the success story here - it was them closing their borders.

Well if you are only going to do it half arsed then you'll get half arsed results, so in response to half arsed measures then we got the results we expected, whereas New Zealand did it right from the start and have been enjoying the proper living, though the flu rate is through the roof! Only joking. So closing the borders is what we did.

I don't know anyone, and I mean anyone who thinks the lockdowns are good, they have just reduced the number of deaths, but some reason you feel that the lockdowns have not reduced deaths

[Milltown Row2]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.

Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels!

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

I'll be loving it, in the pub with my vaccine passport (get second one on 1st April) great 5G reception and looking up flights to go on holidays.

[GetOverTheBar]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.

Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels!

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

I'll be loving it, in the pub with my vaccine passport (get second one on 1st April) great 5G reception and looking up flights to go on holidays.

Any chance next time you cut the finger you can get me a drop of your blood, I won't get the vaccine for awhile yet 

[Milltown Row2]

Front line worker

[trailer]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.

Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels!

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

[Taylor]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.

Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels!

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink

[Armagh18]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.

Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels!

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink

I highly doubt many people will care, especially younger people.

[Evil Genius]

Lockdowns do not work, that is established...

Sweden have not had a lockdown and comparatively have fared much the same as countries across Europe who have endured severe and draconian lockdowns.

Bullshit!

When you compare the Covid Mortality Rate per 100k of Population, you'll see that Sweden has fared far worse than its Nordic Neighbours, with whom it is best comparable:

Iceland - 8.20
Norway - 12.21
Finland - 14.64
Denmark - 41.47
Sweden - 130.75
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Of course Iceland had it somewhat easier for being an island, whilst Denmark had it harder being connected by land to mainland Europe.
Nonetheless, having a mortality rate 9 x times that of Finland to the east and 11 x times that of Norway to the west, both of which imposed lockdowns, tells a clear and unambiguous story.


Not only that, but Sweden didn't even escape the blow to its economy that lockdown causes - in fact it came off worse than its neighbours who did lockdown:

Sweden's GDP fell 8.6% during the second quarter of the year, according to its statistics body.
The fall is sharper than its neighbors — Denmark registered a 7.4% fall, and Finland a 3.2% fall. Statistics suggest Norway also fared better than Sweden.
Sweden decided not to pursue a nationwide lockdown, unlike most European nation. The statistics show this did not help its economy.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?op=1&r=US&IR=T
[August 2020 is the most recent, easily laid-out figures I can find, but I believe the trend continued throughout the year]



Further, I say "formal" lockdown, since it is misleading to consider that Sweden didn't institute any restrictions. For example, some lower age schools were closed and gatherings over a certain number were prohibited. There were many other recommendations re. social distancing and mask-wearing issued, whilst many people/organisations/companies observed voluntary restrictions. This latter was evidenced eg by a significant fall in public transport tickets bought and a fall in credit card transactions.

Yet despite this, as the failure of their inital "herd immunity" strategy became ever more evident (undeniable), the country was forced to admit this and issue further restrictions, eg:

Nov.2020 -
No-lockdown Sweden toughens up restrictions as coronavirus cases rise:
Sweden appears to be changing tack and implementing stricter measures as a second wave of infections takes hold and hospitalizations rise.
On Monday, it announced that public gatherings of more than eight people were no longer allowed.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html

Dec.2020 -
Sweden's king has said his country "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.
Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths - a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.
Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king's remarks.
"Of course the fact that so many have died can't be considered as anything other than a failure," Mr Lofven told reporters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021

Jan.2021 -
What you can be fined for under Sweden's [latest] pandemic law:
Sweden's new pandemic law gives the government power to introduce extra measures to curb the spread of the coronavirus, and if you break these, you could face fines or other legal sanctions.

As of January 19th, the measures introduced under the law mostly applied to businesses rather than individuals. For example, shops, gyms and sports facilities are limited to a maximum of one person per ten square metres of usable space (not shelves or cash registers), and these limits must be stated in risk assessments and advertised on signs at every entrance, and stated in mandatory risk assessments.
https://www.thelocal.se/20210119/what-can-you-be-fined-for-and-for-how-much-under-swedens-pandemic-law/

Feb.2021 -
New closing time: Sweden's rolls out more coronavirus rules for restaurants

From Monday, all restaurants and cafés in Sweden will have to close at 8.30pm under rules that will shortly be put forward by the Public Health Agency.
The regulation will apply regardless of whether or not the venues serve alcohol. Sweden has previously banned bars and restaurants from serving alcohol after 8pm, but due to a loophole in the law they have been able to remain open much longer in the evening. They would now have to shut their doors completely at 8.30pm.
https://www.thelocal.se/20210224/swedish-prime-minister-calls-press-conference-new-coronavirus-measures/

So we're only allowed compare Sweden with 4 other European countries.

Seem like an utterly ridiculous logic.

You're allowed to compare Sweden with anyone you like - Cyprus, Liechtenstein, Gibraltar, Russia etc - take your pick.

Just as you're allowed to be deliberately obtuse (or stupid).

But with every country having different conditions, sometimes wildly so, then it makes sense to try to compare like-for-like as far as possible.

Which makes their Nordic neighbours the best possible comparitors for Sweden.

My point being that such a comparison shows that not having a formal lockdown was disastrous for the Swedes - as they've now been forced to admit themselves.

Or do you not get the word "failure"?:
Sweden's king has said his country "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.
Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths - a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.
Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king's remarks.
"Of course the fact that so many have died can't be considered as anything other than a failure," Mr Lofven told reporters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021

[Milltown Row2]

Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?

Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?