China Coronavirus

[bennydorano]

3 months later still having heart palpitations. Keeping eye on it. Could be something else but it did coincide with week I got the COVID

Ever hear of Heartblock? Apparently 60-70% of the population have it to some degree (mostly a mild arrhythmia)and are walking around unaware until it becomes noticeable. I was diagnosed about 2 years ago, still waiting on an echo cardiogram, not happening anytime soon.

[RadioGAAGAA]

1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.

2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!

Finally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here, and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

3 months later still having heart palpitations. Keeping eye on it. Could be something else but it did coincide with week I got the COVID

Ever hear of Heartblock? Apparently 60-70% of the population have it to some degree (mostly a mild arrhythmia)and are walking around unaware until it becomes noticeable. I was diagnosed about 2 years ago, still waiting on an echo cardiogram, not happening anytime soon.

Good man , must check it out, keep safe

[BennyCake]

People thought ME was a fake illness, long Covid will be the same

People? it was 'educated' medical opinion who claimed it was psychosomatic.  Medical quack diagnosis ....'go home and do some mindfullness'.

And can any one of those medics who ever believe that psychosomatic is a medical cause, ever explain how a psychosomatic condition could arise?  i.e from a scientific point of view,not from a  belief platform?

ME was also labelled the 'yuppie disease 'once upon a time. Also people who just never recovered properely from a heavy flu and the debilitating effects lasted for months on end. The condition is not unique to some people recovering after covid, but very similar to ME.

ME was deliberately looked down upon so they wouldn't have to pay sufferers sick pay. So it was easy for them to turn down their benefit, and shove them onto the dole queue.

[Angelo]

1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.

2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!

Finally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here, and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.

How could it possibly be pointed out 9 months ago? It was a novel virus 9 months ago which scientists didn't have the first f**king clue about. This is exactly the type of misinformation I am talking about. The UK 50k excess deaths in the Winter Flu season of 17/18, in the O6 the death toll of Covid has yet to hit the peak in a month of the winter flu season in 17/18.

What's farcical is you incredible willingness to dismiss facts and pedal information you know in your heart and sole that is wholly inaccurate.

What was it Goebbels, the master in propaganda said - "It's easier to fool someone, that convince them they have been fooled". Have you been fooled.

On the winter flu season, the relative comparison is 17/18. At the minute we have c300 more  deaths during Dec 21 than Dec 18 but January is where the winter flu season hit a peak in deaths that has not been matched in all of 2020. I'll be charting Covid against that period and seeing where we had the most deaths. We accepted the carnage of deaths during the winter flu season of 17/18 without even batting an eyelid so if we have less deaths during Covid in the same timeframe then it really requires flu deniers like you to have complete reevaluation of the way you dismiss flu.

Now for some stats.





So 62% of Covid recorded deaths (an overstated figure as we already know) are over 80s, 95% over the age of 60s. We also know from elsewhere that 93% of people who have died have had underlying ailments. Are you telling me that flu is not a serious threat to people over the age of 80 with underlying health conditions? Or you going to deny that to.

In terms of fatality to anyone who gets the virus
0-19 - 0.008% (8 in every 100,000 positive cases)
20-39 - 0.006% (6 in every 100,000 positive cases)
40-59 - 0.3% (3 in every 1,000 positive cases)
60-79 - 4% (4 in every 100 positive cases)
80+ - 17% (17 in very 100 positive cases)

The big issue is how governments have handled it, how dysfunctional the health service is.

One of the head men in the HSE said last night that 50% of people currently with Covid in hospitals, picked up in the hospitals. That is a national scandal.

The virus is not an issue for under 60s. Governments have failed to protect the elderly and vulnerable. 50% of people in hospitals, the most vulnerable, picked up in that setting.

We also had a vaccine for the flu, so keep on denying flu is an issue. Apparently we have eradicated flu this winter so surely these measures will be around for every winter on if we are serious about saving lives?

Maybe we don't give a f**k about flu though, as many people can die from that as they wish.

[Milltown Row2]

I'm glad Radiogaga cleared it all up. Very clever man

[whitey]

Was on a call for work yesterday with an expert in the virus

If we can vaccinate the 17% of the population identified the most vulnerable, we can eliminate 70% of the deaths

[HiMucker]

1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.

2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!

Finally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here, and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.

The whole world has got it wrong and Angelo has got it right 

[Angelo]

1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.

2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!

Finally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here, and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.

The whole world has got it wrong and Angelo has got it right

Nice that you ignored the rest of the post backed up by confirmed statistics, quotes and facts.

It's clear that the governments have got it wrong as we are now in Lockdown no 3 with case numbers not having dropped and spreading like wildfire in hospital settings where those most vulnerable to the virus are contained.

[dublin7]

I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

[GetOverTheBar]

I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

There is a very good reason for that. Can't very well be saving the NHS/Health Service if the media are reporting that.

No idea if it's true, anecdotally, it would appear there is some truth but you'll never hear from any media source.

[Angelo]

I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

Dr Henry said "secondary outbreaks" are also taking place in hospitals and said the proportion of people who are acquiring Covid-19 in hospital is half of the total number of patients.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0114/1189739-vaccine-numbers/

[Mike Tyson]

Angelo, few questions for you that will hopefully help me understand your approach.

1. Why are you comparing Covid to Flu?
2. You've stated that Covid in the main hit the elderly. So the majority of deaths would come from that cohort. As a consequence of this, should we not expect Jan deaths '18 to be higher than '20 given the amount of deaths on the elderly cohort already as opposed to the preceding months in 2018 - i.e there is less numbers of the elderly cohort so logically the total number of deaths should be less?
3. You've stated lockdowns don't work. What level of compliance would you say has been adhered to during lockdowns by the general public?
4. Have you any examples of areas which didn't initiate a lockdown which has successfully suppressed the spread of the virus?
5. Why are you comparing 'Winter' as Jan - Mar?

Apologies if these have been covered in previous posts but I haven't read back in detail. If they have, should be easy enough to just copy the answers.

[dublin7]

I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

Dr Henry said "secondary outbreaks" are also taking place in hospitals and said the proportion of people who are acquiring Covid-19 in hospital is half of the total number of patients.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0114/1189739-vaccine-numbers/

SOME OF THE HOSPITALS. was left out the quote you copied and pasted.

If you're going to quote the doctor, at least quote him correctly. You really do see things different to everybody else

[Angelo]

Angelo, few questions for you that will hopefully help me understand your approach.

1. Why are you comparing Covid to Flu?
2. You've stated that Covid in the main hit the elderly. So the majority of deaths would come from that cohort. As a consequence of this, should we not expect Jan deaths '18 to be higher than '20 given the amount of deaths on the elderly cohort already as opposed to the preceding months in 2018 - i.e there is less numbers of the elderly cohort so logically the total number of deaths should be less?
3. You've stated lockdowns don't work. What level of compliance would you say has been adhered to during lockdowns by the general public?
4. Have you any examples of areas which didn't initiate a lockdown which has successfully suppressed the spread of the virus?
5. Why are you comparing 'Winter' as Jan - Mar?

Apologies if these have been covered in previous posts but I haven't read back in detail. If they have, should be easy enough to just copy the answers.

1. Why not? They are both viruses. The only difference is we seem to accept excess death from flu every year willy nilly, record deaths in Jan 2018 - why did barely anyone bat an eyelid, a vaccine was also available. What we are being told by the health experts is that there is no flu this year. So if we locked down every winter, the death tolls would fall rapidly you expect. So why are we willing to accept deaths with flu every year but not with Covid? The number in the Winter flu season in Dec-Mar 17/18 was off the charts.

2. Old people die, it's life. As you get older your body gives up on you, what's the excess death levels like this year? Probably higher, I don't deny is a massive threat to this cohort but anymore so than flu? I don't think so, if you're 85 and have heart disease, alzheimers, cancer or any other debilitating disease, a mild enough ailment can push you over the edge. It's a sad reality of life, we don't live forever. What I'd like to see is how many of that cohort have died from cancer, heart disease, respiratory illness etc in 2020 compared to prior years. If that's fallen significantly then can we say that all they have done is substitute large numbers of deaths of one ailment for another due to the arbitrary nature of recording deaths.

3. So your saying compliance is the issue with why lockdowns don't work? Well this is lockdown no 3, the issue is why have governments not put in place better measures in that time. We were told by the WHO months back that Lockdowns should not be used as the only strategy, yet they are. People aren't complying because lockdowns are not sustainable, they are not practical. They have been proven to fail before, they will fail again.

4. I haven't said that if we don't lockdown we will suppress the virus, that is nonsense. What I have contended is the hugely damaging nature to society as a whole - the economy, employment, mental health, physical wellbeing, social interaction, support services for vulnerable groups are going to have huge and long lasting consequences. Lockdowns as you have acknowledged have not brought the no of cases down.

5. Dec - Mar is regarded as the peak months for seasonal flu. If we are comparing and contrasting the actual damage of Covid v seasonal flu we should compare them in the same area.

This virus is of minimal threat to the under 60s, virtually no threat to anyone in that age group who do not have underlying health concerns. What special provisions have governments put in place to protect those groupings? What's happening in the hospitals now is disgraceful and on government's hands.