China Coronavirus

[Baile Brigín 2]

When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?

A day or two usually

So people then are free to do what they like for a day or two?

Really up to them to self isolate then?

I think you are told not to be out and about but people are ignoring that in many cases

According to the boffins in NUIG 16% are doing just that.

[GetOverTheBar]

When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.

[Rudi]

When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.

+1 That's completely untrue.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

lockdown reduces covid numbers in hospitals and therefore increases ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

no lockdown increases covid numbers in hospitals and therefore reduces the ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

[Rossfan]

Arrah Pearse will you go away with your sensible comments.
No place for that kind of thing here.

Meanwhile
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1012/1171122-coronavirus-owen-oflynn/

[armaghniac]

When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.

Yes it is and obviously so, an overcrowded health service cannot  properly treat everyone.

meanwhile, the New York Times does not agree with Angelo, science is coming to the rescue.

The worst-case scenario — in which some 2.2 million Americans die from the virus — has not come to pass. Around the world, hundreds of millions of people have made huge sacrifices in shutting down parts of the economy, maintaining social distance and wearing masks.

Those sacrifices have made the possibility of a "twindemic" of coronavirus and influenza infections seem far less likely now, too. The flu season is typically seeded each year in the Northern Hemisphere by travelers from the Southern Hemisphere. But this year the flu season there was almost nonexistent because of anti-coronavirus measures.

Donald also noted that the percentage of infected people who are dying from the virus has been falling because of all of the lessons we've learned during the last few months. Nursing homes have gotten better at protecting their residents, steroids like dexamethasone have lowered the number of deaths, and tactics like rolling patients onto their stomachs and delaying ventilator use have also been shown to help. Pharmaceutical interventions like monoclonal antibodies, still in the early stages of availability, are likely to become even more effective.

Vaccine development has been moving much faster than anticipated in part because the Trump administration's Operation Warp Speed appears to be working. It has put more than $11 billion into seven vaccine candidates, and Moncef Slaoui, the chief scientific adviser on the program, said he expected two to be approved by January, with an efficacy of 75 to 90 percent. Mr. Slaoui also said that factories would produce enough doses for all 330 million Americans to be vaccinated by next June. That all suggests the pandemic in the United States may be over far sooner than expected, possibly by the middle of next year.

Still, we're not there yet — and the pandemic has repeatedly taken a turn for the worse just when things were looking better. Cases are still on the rise in most of the United States and across the world, and experts warn that autumn and winter may be grim as indoor dining, in-school instruction, jet travel and family holidays end up increasing infections, hospitalizations and deaths.

"Pandemics don't end abruptly; they decelerate gradually, like supertankers," Donald wrote. "Even by spring, we will not be entirely safe, but we probably will be safer."
But some chaos still lies ahead

Many leaders — most notably President Trump — have described the arrival of a coronavirus vaccine as an off switch that will instantly normalize our lives. But experts are warning of a perplexing and frustrating period that could follow.

Our colleague Carl Zimmer wrote that when the first vaccine arrives, it may not be the most effective vaccine, offering only moderate protection that will make it prudent to keep wearing a mask.

And the first vaccine to reach the finish line may end up hampering the trials of its competitors.

Volunteers in experimental trials may drop out, slowing down research and regulatory approval. And vaccines that are not as far along might have to prove that they are better than the first shot, resulting in trials that are bigger and take more time. That could lead to steep costs that may halt development.

One possibility: By next spring or summer, there could be a number of vaccines on the market without a clear sense of how to choose among them.

Some of this confusion is inevitable, but it's also a result of how the process was designed. Rather than testing a number of vaccines against each other, as the World Health Organization is doing, the United States took a "harmonized approach" that allowed vaccine companies to run their own trials as long as they followed certain guidelines.

Finally, drug companies and regulators will have to monitor patients, even after clinical trials are over, to look for rare but dangerous side effects. Random events — like a group of older people all having strokes shortly after being vaccinated — could raise the possibility that the vaccine was the culprit. The uncertainty may lead some people to avoid vaccines entirely, which would weaken our collective ability to fight Covid-19.

[Ed Ricketts]

When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.

+1 That's completely untrue.

Non-COVID ICU bed occupancy in the north shrank by 20% in the last week or so.

Did 20% fewer people just happen to not get seriously ill during the exact week COVID bed demand spiked?

Or were various operations and procedures that would've necessitated a stay in ICU afterwards cancelled to make room for the developing wave of COVID patients?

I can't be sure of the answer, but likely most people I could make a fairly educated guess.

[sid waddell]

Science has failed because it did not come up with a vaccine in six months

It failed because of the pesky scientific method

Science needs an unscientific method to thrive again

Internet expert, October 2020

[Rossfan]

If only the WHO and 180 or whatever Governments had listened to Karen.....

[armaghniac]

lockdown reduces covid numbers in hospitals and therefore increases ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

no lockdown increases covid numbers in hospitals and therefore reduces the ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to say.
Let those who argue that this is not true provide some counter argument against it.

[Hound]

When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?

A day or two usually

So people then are free to do what they like for a day or two?

Really up to them to self isolate then?

A family member tested today. Parents and kids have to stay home until results in a day or two. Was glad to hear they're not for leaving the house until tests are through.

If only all those tested did likewise.

It's amazing there are people out there who think they're free to do what they want in the couple of days they might have to wait for their results. They'd have to be thickos to even ask the question.

[thewobbler]

There is almost no chance it can be plain old stupidity Hound; it has to be a wilful and premeditated choice.

There is no defending it.

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-musicians-post-video-in-call-for-help-from-budget-2021-1.4379476

[GetOverTheBar]

lockdown reduces covid numbers in hospitals and therefore increases ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

no lockdown increases covid numbers in hospitals and therefore reduces the ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to say.
Let those who argue that this is not true provide some counter argument against it.

Right, well, so when multiple people that I know personally had operations or procedures cancelled - and have since been cancelled indefinitely because they were not Covid related how in any way, does that help them?

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.

If your adamant that lockdown helps those with other illnesses, I can give you first hand, multiple instances when it certainly does not.

[imtommygunn]

lockdown reduces covid numbers in hospitals and therefore increases ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

no lockdown increases covid numbers in hospitals and therefore reduces the ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to say.
Let those who argue that this is not true provide some counter argument against it.

Staff have been repurposed from other areas though to bring in the cover required for Covid and spikes so other areas are down in staff and can't provide the same service. Things like anaesthetists don't do clinics because they are on standby etc. This is what is happening.

What exactly is your argument here? Lockdown equals less cases equals more bandwidth elsewhere in the health service?

Lockdown or not spikes in a) nhs staff in departments or b) the general public have to be planned for and take away from other services.