China Coronavirus

[sid waddell]

If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?

I'm not sure it's useful to think of this in waves

It's probably more useful to imagine it as Japanese knotweed

Or Dublin in the second half of an All-Ireland final

It'll just keep coming at you relentlessly

[sid waddell]

It seems the Zero COVID debate is dead. You can't keep flogging a dead horse.

There's never really been a proper debate about it

New Zealand shows it can work

Devi Sridhar said last week that the UK is now effectively pursuing its own zero Covid strategy

[Milltown Row2]

If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?

I'm not sure it's useful to think of this in waves

It's probably more useful to imagine it as Japanese knotweed

Or Dublin in the second half of an All-Ireland final

It'll just keep coming at you relentlessly

There is an end to it. It's not relentless

[Blowitupref]

Leo Varadkar gave a rare good interview on RTÉ tonight. Good detail why the government didn't agree with NPHET recommendations of level 5 right now.

[sid waddell]

If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?

I'm not sure it's useful to think of this in waves

It's probably more useful to imagine it as Japanese knotweed

Or Dublin in the second half of an All-Ireland final

It'll just keep coming at you relentlessly

There is an end to it. It's not relentless

There's little to suggest it's not relentless, at least in the medium term, pretty much everything we know says it is

What we don't know is whether it will continue to impact human health and mortality in the same way it has been doing - or how and when we will be able to deal with it as a threat

[nrico2006]

Were there equivalents to lockdown during the Spanish flu?  How long did it take for things to go back to normal back then?

[lfdown2]

It seems the Zero COVID debate is dead. You can't keep flogging a dead horse.

There's never really been a proper debate about it

New Zealand shows it can work

Devi Sridhar said last week that the UK is now effectively pursuing its own zero Covid strategy

But the circumstances are different, I know from a construction perspective there are very few if any of the top tier contractors not plying their trade across the water, it was evident as soon as things were relaxed slightly the photograph of the Aer Lingus flight out of Belfast to Heathrow on a Monday morning (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52539141).

As much as Michelle et al try to push the one island agenda it is not feasible, these 2 islands are intrinsically linked, and unless GB and Ireland decide on a joint zero Covid strategy (which they will not) I don't believe it is viable.   

[thewobbler]

Leo Varadkar gave a rare good interview on RTÉ tonight. Good detail why the government didn't agree with NPHET recommendations of level 5 right now.

Agreed. NPHET it seems wanted to make it clear that if things start to go south with deaths, that it's not on them. They are willingly oblivious to the fact that making recommendations is easy, but implementing decisions is tough.

Now is not the time for that.

I hope their wings are severely clipped.

[GetOverTheBar]

Were there equivalents to lockdown during the Spanish flu?  How long did it take for things to go back to normal back then?

Can't really compare, there wasn't even antibiotics etc in those days, which if there had been could have saved many, many lives.

Post war malnutrition, hygiene, mass movement of people were massive factors in the spread of Spanish Flu.

The Spanish Flu still exists today, I think the same strain as the Swine Flu outbreak back towards the end of the last decade. It's just they got the vaccine for it some years later.

[sid waddell]

Leo Varadkar gave a rare good interview on RTÉ tonight. Good detail why the government didn't agree with NPHET recommendations of level 5 right now.

Agreed. NPHET it seems wanted to make it clear that if things start to go south with deaths, that it's not on them. They are willingly oblivious to the fact that making recommendations is easy, but implementing decisions is tough.

Now is not the time for that.

I hope their wings are severely clipped.

Great

Let's get advice from non experts so

Maybe Generic Ultra Confident Airline Executive

[thewobbler]

Sid you're a ball of contradictions on this one. In previous posts you've issued sympathy for politicians as there is no easy or right answer for them.

Conversely NPHET have a remarkably easy job: "there's a virus going around and it's getting worse, so shut the place down". You don't need any expertise in the slightest to issue such a recommendation; all you need is a narrow focus and an aversion to risk.

Personally I think they're out of order here. The govt have been dodging traffic for months and NPHET just enabled a fleet of forty-foots to carry themselves to safety, regardless of who's on the road.

[sid waddell]

Sid you're a ball of contradictions on this one. In previous posts you've issued sympathy for politicians as there is no easy or right answer for them.

Conversely NPHET have a remarkably easy job: "there's a virus going around and it's getting worse, so shut the place down". You don't need any expertise in the slightest to issue such a recommendation; all you need is a narrow focus and an aversion to risk.

Personally I think they're out of order here. The govt have been dodging traffic for months and NPHET just enabled a fleet of forty-foots to carry themselves to safety, regardless of who's on the road.

You called for the group of actual experts who are supposed to recommend policy to "have their wings clipped"

Varadkar vilified them last night because he didn't like what he had to say

Seems you want a Trump-style approach to policy, ie. purge expertise and let the loonies in

You've had enough of experts

Looks like you may be getting your way

Experts out, Generic Ultra Confident Airline Guys in

Let's have a chlorinated chicken approach to Covid

[thewobbler]

So you've gone full circle again then, and believe that nationwide government policy should be left in the hands of unelected scientists.

Okay. Just good to clear that up.

[sid waddell]

So you've gone full circle again then, and believe that nationwide government policy should be left in the hands of unelected scientists.

Okay. Just good to clear that up.

You're going full internet eejit here

Plus ca change

Internet eejits desperately search for "hypocrisy" when they have no argument

And when they can't find hypocrisy, like you can't, they invent it, like you do, and invent straw men

That you use the phrase "unelected scientists" is very telling as to your frame of mind

Do please clarify for me whether i) you want advice to only come from elected people, ie., people who don't have any expertise at all or ii) you want scientists and experts in relevant fields to have to face election

[RadioGAAGAA]

believe that nationwide government policy should be left in the hands of unelected scientists.

The scientists made their recommendation, the govt chose to go another route - that's their prerogative.

That is generally the approach of all democracies - get recommendations from experts then the elected officials and their civil servants chose which way to go.



But, for the sake of argument - if scientists (and other subject matter experts) were in charge of the country, it'd be a damn sight better off that the current farce. Of course - they'd need leeway to get shot of around half of the civil service and retrain the other half that aren't beyond help.