Munster Club Championships 2018

Started by Ball Hopper, September 24, 2018, 03:14:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

From the Bunker

Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 17, 2018, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 17, 2018, 08:27:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 17, 2018, 08:06:51 PM
I see the Kerry Intermediate (Senior B) and Junior (Intermediate B) Champions are enjoying their cremation of their respective grades in Munster.
There is a huge disparity given how Kerry organise their championships alright, and in fairness to Cork they honourably send forward their junior champions to the junior grade and not the intermediate champions.

Who sends their intermediate champions to junior grade?

Britain

From the Bunker

Oh yeah, and Kerry go half way to sending their Senior and Intermediate Champions into the Intermediate and Junior Munster Championships respectively!

Owenmoresider

Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 17, 2018, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 17, 2018, 08:27:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 17, 2018, 08:06:51 PM
I see the Kerry Intermediate (Senior B) and Junior (Intermediate B) Champions are enjoying their cremation of their respective grades in Munster.
There is a huge disparity given how Kerry organise their championships alright, and in fairness to Cork they honourably send forward their junior champions to the junior grade and not the intermediate champions.

Who sends their intermediate champions to junior grade?
AIB Leinster Club Junior Football Championship 2018

Senior – Europe
Intermediate Champions – Kilkenny & Offaly
Intermediate Runners Up – Longford
Intermediate "A" Champions – Wexford
Junior Champions – Remaining Counties

In fairness it's more in the fact that junior is the fourth tier in Cork whereas the rest of Munster are the third tier, and Kerry's structure means it's a very good team by the province's standards. But they're not really doing anything wrong. There's a few counties taking liberties with it - I see Laois and Offaly send their Senior B hurling champions into Leinster intermediate and their intermediate champions into junior, as Wexford do with their Intermediate 'A' champions. Dublin have a playoff which often sees their Senior B winners in the intermediate hurling also.

It's up to each county to configure its structures to suit its club scene. Some have too many teams at senior and that has a knock-on effect at the lower grades, we used to have 16 which in a county of 23/24 clubs was madness. I'd say Mayo and Tyrone in football, and Kilkenny in hurling, have it well balanced of the lot with usually competitive teams at every grade.

Ball Hopper

Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 17, 2018, 10:02:19 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 17, 2018, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 17, 2018, 08:27:28 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 17, 2018, 08:06:51 PM
I see the Kerry Intermediate (Senior B) and Junior (Intermediate B) Champions are enjoying their cremation of their respective grades in Munster.
There is a huge disparity given how Kerry organise their championships alright, and in fairness to Cork they honourably send forward their junior champions to the junior grade and not the intermediate champions.

Who sends their intermediate champions to junior grade?
AIB Leinster Club Junior Football Championship 2018

Senior – Europe
Intermediate Champions – Kilkenny & Offaly
Intermediate Runners Up – Longford
Intermediate "A" Champions – Wexford
Junior Champions – Remaining Counties

In fairness it's more in the fact that junior is the fourth tier in Cork whereas the rest of Munster are the third tier, and Kerry's structure means it's a very good team by the province's standards. But they're not really doing anything wrong. There's a few counties taking liberties with it - I see Laois and Offaly send their Senior B hurling champions into Leinster intermediate and their intermediate champions into junior, as Wexford do with their Intermediate 'A' champions. Dublin have a playoff which often sees their Senior B winners in the intermediate hurling also.

It's up to each county to configure its structures to suit its club scene. Some have too many teams at senior and that has a knock-on effect at the lower grades, we used to have 16 which in a county of 23/24 clubs was madness. I'd say Mayo and Tyrone in football, and Kilkenny in hurling, have it well balanced of the lot with usually competitive teams at every grade.

Kerry hurlers send senior champions into Munster intermediate and intermediate champions into Munster junior.

Having only 8 senior football clubs in Kerry is what really makes their intermediate and junior champions so strong against other counties club who would rank well below the Kerry representatives.  Beaufort, for example, as junior champions rank 25th in Kerry, but are in Division 1 of the county league (finished 10th of 12 teams and were relegated to Div 2 for 2019).  The fact that Beaufort have no county senior panel member means they have a full squad for every league game (bar suspensions and injuries, obviously), which allows for success against clubs with a few county men who play very few if any league games.

Ball Hopper

#49
18 Nov. Update

Edit: 25 Nov Update

Senior Football - 2018 Champions are Dr. Crokes (Kerry)

QF: 4 Nov. The Nire (Waterford) 1-18 Adare (Limerick) 0-12
QF: 4 Nov. Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 3-15 Moyle Rovers (Tipperary) 0-8

SF: 11 Nov.  St. Joseph's Miltown-Malbay 2-11 The Nire (Waterford) 0-9
SF: 11 Nov.  Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 5-20 St. Finbarr's (Cork) 1-11

Final: 25 Nov. Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 1-21 St. Joseph's Miltown-Malbay 2-9

Intermediate Football - 2018 Champions are Kilcummin (Kerry)

QF: 3 Nov. Kilcummin (Kerry) 0-10 Kilrush (Clare) 0-7
QF: 3 Nov. Fermoy (Cork) 4-9 Galbally (Limerick) 0-6

SF: 11 Nov. Kilcummin (Kerry) 2-17 Kilmacthomas (Waterford) 0-1
SF: 11 Nov. Fermoy (Cork) 2-6 Moyne-Templetuohy (Tipperary) 0-8

Final:  25 Nov. Kilcummin (Kerry) 1-11 Fermoy (Cork) 1-3

Junior Football

QF: 10 Nov.  Beaufort (Kerry) 5-16 Ballylooby-Castlegrace (Tipperary) 1-9
QF: 10 Nov.  Dromtarriffe (Cork) 2-10 Kildimo-Pallaskenry (Limerick) 1-7

SF: 17 Nov.  Beaufort (Kerry) 5-23 Michael Cusacks (Clare) 0-4
SF: 17 Nov.  Dromtarriffe (Cork) 2-16 Mount Sion (Waterford) 0-10

Final: 2 Dec. Beaufort (Kerry) v Dromtarriffe (Cork) in Mallow 3:30pm

Senior Hurling - 2018 Champions are Ballygunner (Waterford)

QF: 28 Oct. Ballygunner (Waterford) 1-18 Midleton (Cork) 1-13

SF: 4 Nov. Na Piarsaigh (Limerick) 3-22 Clonoulty-Rossmore (Tipperary) 0-13 1pm
SF: 4 Nov. Ballygunner (Waterford) 2-26 Ballyea (Clare) 2-23 AET

Final: 18 Nov. Ballygunner (Waterford) 2-14 Na Piarsaigh (Limerick) 2-8

Intermediate Hurling - 2018 Champions are Charleville (Cork)

QF: 28 Oct. Clonea (Waterford) 1-25 Garryspillane (Limerick) 1-10
QF: 28 Oct. Lixnaw (Kerry) 1-16 Cashel King Cormacs (Tipperary) 1-13 

SF: 3 Nov. Feakle (Clare) 5-15 Clonea (Waterford) 2-15
SF: 3 Nov. Charleville (Cork) 1-17 Lixnaw (Kerry) 0-11

Final: 18 Nov. v Charleville (Cork) 2-20 Feakle (Clare) 1-20

Junior Hurling

QF: 10 Nov. Tournafulla (Limerick) 1-22 Kilgarvan (Kerry) 2-9
QF: 10 Nov. Boherlahan-Dualla (Tipperary) w/o Clare scr.

SF: 17 Nov.  Ballinameela (Waterford) 1-15 Tournafulla (Limerick) 0-14
SF: 17 Nov.  Cloughduv (Cork)1-16 Boherlahan-Dualla (Tipperary) 0-12

Final: 2 Dec. Cloughduv (Cork) v Ballinameela (Waterford) in Mallow 1pm

Ball Hopper

Previous post edit for 25 Nov update.

Junior hurling and junior football final double-header in Mallow on Sunday next, 2 Dec., will complete the season.

From the Bunker

Was wondering if the Junior and Intermediate Champions from Waterford, Clare, Limerick, Tipperary and even Cork at this stage, decided to pull their respective county Champions out of the Munster Championship. What would the GAA do?


Gael85

Quote from: twohands!!! on November 12, 2018, 11:27:19 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 12, 2018, 11:15:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 12, 2018, 11:01:40 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 12, 2018, 08:12:20 PM
League and championship are different.  County players play very few, if any, league games, which puts a big asterisk on a club's league position if they have a few county men.

A few County men down, but you're still talking about div 1 teams playing at div 1 level, conditioned to play at that level and speed. Then playing div 3 junior teams from other counties.

True.  The Kerry system of only 8 senior clubs seems to be the issue, along with mandatory relegation if bottom of championship level.  A lot of counties don't have any real relegation.



It would be interesting to see where county intermediate and junior champions rank in their own county leagues.

I just can't understand why more counties don't adopt a similar setup to the one Kerry have.

As far as I know the current system was in place before the All-Ireland Club Intermediate and Junior competitions started and even then the divisional structure was always mentioned as a factor as to why Kerry intercounty team were so successful.

Then the All-Ireland Club Intermediate and Junior competitions started and Kerry clubs have had a very strong (if not the strongest) record in those competitions adding even more evidence that the Kerry structures were the best/among the best.

It just seems like madness to me that a whole raft of other counties haven't tried to adopt a system as close to the Kerry one as possible.

Majority of counties and especially in munster are dual counties so would be impossible to apply the kerry setup.Kerry only has 5/6 hurling teams.

Gael85

Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 12, 2018, 11:15:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 12, 2018, 11:01:40 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 12, 2018, 08:12:20 PM
League and championship are different.  County players play very few, if any, league games, which puts a big asterisk on a club's league position if they have a few county men.

A few County men down, but you're still talking about div 1 teams playing at div 1 level, conditioned to play at that level and speed. Then playing div 3 junior teams from other counties.



True.  The Kerry system of only 8 senior clubs seems to be the issue, along with mandatory relegation if bottom of championship level.  A lot of counties don't have any real relegation.



It would be interesting to see where county intermediate and junior champions rank in their own county leagues.

Clare intermediate winners Kilrush finished bottom of Division 2
Eire Og won junior championship but as was their second team Michael Cusacks who were runners up represented Clare. Both teams competed in Division 4.

Ball Hopper

All over for 2018.  Kerry clubs win all three football titles, while Cork win 2 hurling and Waterford win the senior hurling.

Senior Football - 2018 Champions are Dr. Crokes (Kerry)

QF: 4 Nov. The Nire (Waterford) 1-18 Adare (Limerick) 0-12
QF: 4 Nov. Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 3-15 Moyle Rovers (Tipperary) 0-8

SF: 11 Nov.  St. Joseph's Miltown-Malbay 2-11 The Nire (Waterford) 0-9
SF: 11 Nov.  Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 5-20 St. Finbarr's (Cork) 1-11

Final: 25 Nov. Dr. Crokes (Kerry) 1-21 St. Joseph's Miltown-Malbay 2-9

Intermediate Football - 2018 Champions are Kilcummin (Kerry)

QF: 3 Nov. Kilcummin (Kerry) 0-10 Kilrush (Clare) 0-7
QF: 3 Nov. Fermoy (Cork) 4-9 Galbally (Limerick) 0-6

SF: 11 Nov. Kilcummin (Kerry) 2-17 Kilmacthomas (Waterford) 0-1
SF: 11 Nov. Fermoy (Cork) 2-6 Moyne-Templetuohy (Tipperary) 0-8

Final:  25 Nov. Kilcummin (Kerry) 1-11 Fermoy (Cork) 1-3

Junior Football -2018 Champions are Beaufort (Kerry)

QF: 10 Nov.  Beaufort (Kerry) 5-16 Ballylooby-Castlegrace (Tipperary) 1-9
QF: 10 Nov.  Dromtarriffe (Cork) 2-10 Kildimo-Pallaskenry (Limerick) 1-7

SF: 17 Nov.  Beaufort (Kerry) 5-23 Michael Cusacks (Clare) 0-4
SF: 17 Nov.  Dromtarriffe (Cork) 2-16 Mount Sion (Waterford) 0-10

Final: 2 Dec. Beaufort (Kerry) 2-13 Dromtarriffe (Cork) 2-12 AET

Senior Hurling - 2018 Champions are Ballygunner (Waterford)

QF: 28 Oct. Ballygunner (Waterford) 1-18 Midleton (Cork) 1-13

SF: 4 Nov. Na Piarsaigh (Limerick) 3-22 Clonoulty-Rossmore (Tipperary) 0-13 1pm
SF: 4 Nov. Ballygunner (Waterford) 2-26 Ballyea (Clare) 2-23 AET

Final: 18 Nov. Ballygunner (Waterford) 2-14 Na Piarsaigh (Limerick) 2-8

Intermediate Hurling - 2018 Champions are Charleville (Cork)

QF: 28 Oct. Clonea (Waterford) 1-25 Garryspillane (Limerick) 1-10
QF: 28 Oct. Lixnaw (Kerry) 1-16 Cashel King Cormacs (Tipperary) 1-13

SF: 3 Nov. Feakle (Clare) 5-15 Clonea (Waterford) 2-15
SF: 3 Nov. Charleville (Cork) 1-17 Lixnaw (Kerry) 0-11

Final: 18 Nov. v Charleville (Cork) 2-20 Feakle (Clare) 1-20

Junior Hurling - 2018 Champions are Cloughduv (Cork)

QF: 10 Nov. Tournafulla (Limerick) 1-22 Kilgarvan (Kerry) 2-9
QF: 10 Nov. Boherlahan-Dualla (Tipperary) w/o Clare scr.

SF: 17 Nov.  Ballinameela (Waterford) 1-15 Tournafulla (Limerick) 0-14
SF: 17 Nov.  Cloughduv (Cork)1-16 Boherlahan-Dualla (Tipperary) 0-12

Final: 2 Dec. Cloughduv (Cork) 0-17 Ballinameela (Waterford) 0-11

Maroon Manc

Judging by the odds Kilcummin are a shoe in. In fairness the 9th best team in most counties are playing senior football.

How many clubs in the Cork senior championship?

No wonder Kerry are dominating both the intermediate and junior club championships.

From the Bunker

Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 04, 2018, 12:43:17 PM
Judging by the odds Kilcummin are a shoe in. In fairness the 9th best team in most counties are playing senior football.

How many clubs in the Cork senior championship?

No wonder Kerry are dominating both the intermediate and junior club championships.

Look, there are always going to be discrepancies between different counties when it comes to running an AI/Provincial competition with Intermediate and Junior Club. The thing is the Kerry situation is just taking the piss.

rodney trotter

It's not like it's just 8 teams. They have amalgamations competing too.. Most counties have only really 6 to 8 teams capable of winning a Senior Championship.

It's works for kerry up to other counties to look at their own structures

JoG2

Quote from: rodney trotter on December 04, 2018, 01:07:56 PM
It's not like it's just 8 teams. They have amalgamations competing too.. Most counties have only really 6 to 8 teams capable of winning a Senior Championship.

It's works for kerry up to other counties to look at their own structures

Why do people keep posting this or something similar? If everyone followed the Kerry structure the AI junior would be a complete sham. Imagine Ballinascreen, Magherafelt etc playing in junior grade in Ulster?
If (I couldn't find the junior semi pairings) the Kerry div 1 (Munster champions) are down to play Red Hughes (Ulster champions), it'll be a hammering match. Surely most counties have all clubs in the lower league/s playing junior, middle league/s in intermediate and top league playing senior?