China Coronavirus

[Seamus]

You'll be telling us using glasses is a big pharma con and if you'd only exercise your eyes more and eat more carrots you won't need them!!

You are getting real silly now. Indoctrination must be an awful thing, you are unable to see the wood from the trees. I got Radial Keratotomy done, one of the best decisions of my life when all friends and associates advised me not to. Too dangerous they said. Not surprisingly they all had good eyesight, lack of understanding played a part, also they had no idea what it's like to have -11 eye sight.  Being short sighted or long sighted is not an illness nor a vitamin or mineral deficiency..

[Puckoon]

Anyone who subscribes to the following notions is a crackpot and shouldn't be trusted with taking out the bins on a Monday, never mind advising people.

There is a cure for cancer, people are just sitting on it locked away in some vault that says Amgen/Pfizer/Lilly on it
If we all eat our vitamins and tumeric, there will be no sickness or ill health
Medical Schools and Physicians do not learn or preach prevention being better than the cure.

We have a world full of obese people not because of medicine or medical practices - but because of the globalization of the food industry, sugar industry, declining standards of what we are putting into our body from a dietary perspective and a decline of physical labor jobs.

Having spent 20 years in the life sciences and medical industries as a student, professional, and observer I find it personally distasteful at the broad stroke brush "big pharma" when discussing the industry. There are large pharmaceutical companies, yes. There have been disgusting abuses of power (Purdue and the opioids a shining example). However there are armies of small pharma and biotechs and daily I work with people who drive to their jobs thinking about patients, rare diseases, common diseases and how to improve the lives of patients across a spectrum of conditions that no amount of tumeric in the world will erase. Sickle Cell Anemia for example, Alzheimer's, Epilepsy. Endless efforts going into finding safe, effective therapeutics for the betterment of humanity.

[Puckoon]

There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

[Seamus]

Anyone who subscribes to the following notions is a crackpot and shouldn't be trusted with taking out the bins on a Monday, never mind advising people.

There is a cure for cancer, people are just sitting on it locked away in some vault that says Amgen/Pfizer/Lilly on it
If we all eat our vitamins and tumeric, there will be no sickness or ill health
Medical Schools and Physicians do not learn or preach prevention being better than the cure.

We have a world full of obese people not because of medicine or medical practices - but because of the globalization of the food industry, sugar industry, declining standards of what we are putting into our body from a dietary perspective and a decline of physical labor jobs.

Having spent 20 years in the life sciences and medical industries as a student, professional, and observer I find it personally distasteful at the broad stroke brush "big pharma" when discussing the industry. There are large pharmaceutical companies, yes. There have been disgusting abuses of power (Purdue and the opioids a shining example). However there are armies of small pharma and biotechs and daily I work with people who drive to their jobs thinking about patients, rare diseases, common diseases and how to improve the lives of patients across a spectrum of conditions that no amount of tumeric in the world will erase. Sickle Cell Anemia for example, Alzheimer's, Epilepsy. Endless efforts going into finding safe, effective therapeutics for the betterment of humanity.

Keep taking your drugs, you'll be grand. I must go "eat" some vitamins today. What is tumeric, never heard of it? It does explain a lot with regards to medical school though.

Nice to see that you are into prevention, my indoctrinated friend. You mentioned Alzheimer Disease. Please outline in detail your strategy for prevention. Feel free to add prevention methods for other diseases. Is prevention also part of your job capacity or is it just the "cure" you are focused on? True, physicians at times preach prevention (very limited) while writing a prescription, how wonderful. I have yet to hear of healthy people (or sick people) filling up a MD's waiting room to get advice on prevention. When it comes to prevention, I'm all ears, one can never learn enough.

Does "improve patients lives" only involve medical drugs or does the little biotech company you work for also advise on nutrition and exercise? if so explain and to what extent. Does the medical drugs you are researching have side effects? if so what percentage and please list some of those side effects. Are other drugs ever needed to "cure" those side effects?

Thanks for filling me in on what leads to obesity, a bad diet and lack of exercise, what a shocker, lol. True, no amount of vitamins or "tumeric" will overcome that.  Maybe I should have explained a little better. An unhealthy lifestyle inevitably leads to illness, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. Most go for the quick "fix" because they "trust the science" or are too lazy to do the hard grind. So begins the vicious circle of prescription drugs for life, in most cases never getting to the route cause of the problem or problems thus leading to other illnesses.

And yes, there is a cure for cancer and other "incurable diseases" which Big and Little Pharma have no interest in pursuing for billions if not trillions of reasons. Plenty funds also needed to pay those large fines and lobbyists, usually ex government employees. The cure is not locked away in some vault that says Amgen Horizon Therapeutics, Pfizer or Eli Lilly either.  It comes in the form of Functional and Integrative Medicine.  Rockefeller and Carnegie have plenty to answer for.

[Seamus]

There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly".  I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

[Puckoon]

What is tumeric, never heard of it?

Thanks for catching the spelling error.

You mentioned Alzheimer Disease. Please outline in detail your strategy for prevention. Feel free to add prevention methods for other diseases. Is prevention also part of your job capacity or is it just the "cure" you are focused on?

Not quite sure what you're asking here (it's hard to pull the thread of your pointed questions from the overall buffoonery you are espousing. I have no professional basis for addressing prevention of any disease. I work within the life sciences industry supporting hundreds of companies focused on curing diseases. My lifestyle choices are my own.

Does "improve patients lives" only involve medical drugs or does the little biotech company you work for also advise on nutrition and exercise? if so explain and to what extent.

Again, I work within the industry not for any biotech company - touching many different sizes of pharma and biotech all focused on diseases and med device developments and moving advancements through the necessary testing phases to the commercial market. A process that takes about 8-10 years.  A process that has a wide mouth at the top end of the funnel and filters out the poorer compounds on the basis of efficacy, selectiveness, and a safety profile. The commonality among these companies is that they are all focused on increased quality of life for patients.

Does the medical drugs you are researching have side effects? if so what percentage and please list some of those side effects. Are other drugs ever needed to "cure" those side effects?

I'll not make a deal about your own typo here, but every drug going back to Asprin have side effect potential. Everything you put in your body, including Vitamin C, D, and Turmeric have side effect potential. In Toxicology it is the dose that makes the poison, not necessarily the compound. This holds true for your supplements as well.

An unhealthy lifestyle inevitably leads to illness, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. Most go for the quick "fix" because they "trust the science" or are too lazy to do the hard grind.

It's OK to admit that this is your personally held belief, and that you do not have an exhaustive body of evidence to stand behind this broad bush stroke.

nd yes, there is a cure for cancer and other "incurable diseases" which Big and Little Pharma have no interest in pursuing

Which of the hundreds of diseases that make up the overall term "Cancer" are you referring to? Cancer is a catch all term of a number of sub cancers, many of them treatable and curable now THANKS to advancements in medicine.

Pure nonsense on the whole to suggest that a cure for "Cancer" has been found and the fame and fortune who await the individuals who rid the human race of such a brutal scourge is being suppressed. That is possibly the most ludicrous of all your suggestions. There are many drugs that completely wipe out cancerous cells in the human body. The challenge is that they may well wipe out everything else and they are often incredibly potent and dangerous when they are not as selective on cancer cells and specific tissues as intended. There are some wonderful new therapies coming out every year in immunology and the pharmaceutical industry is gaining ground on specific cancers every year.

[Puckoon]

There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly".  I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

Umm, What? I am not discussing the origin or spread of the virus.

You have some strong space cadet vibes. Check your dosages.

[Seamus]

Thanks for catching the spelling error.

It was not a spelling error per se, it's a pronunciation error which led to the spelling error. It shows the lack of knowledge of Turmeric and it's powerful benefits thus my reference to medical school. I have no problem with spelling errors, we all make them. your lack of knowledge is the only issue here.

Not quite sure what you're asking here (it's hard to pull the thread of your pointed questions from the overall buffoonery you are espousing. I have no professional basis for addressing prevention of any disease. I work within the life sciences industry supporting hundreds of companies focused on curing diseases. My lifestyle choices are my own.

You mentioned "Anyone who subscribes to the following notions is a crackpot and shouldn't be trusted with taking out the bins on a Monday, never mind advising people." "Medical Schools and Physicians do not learn or preach prevention being better than the cure".

I presume you went to some form of medical school as you are in that field. I was interested to know what you learned as regards prevention and indeed nutrition after reading your comment.  Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe you licked your "knowledge" off the floor.  If you did not go to medical school how do you know prevention is taught there?  My niece, a qualified MD, knows next to zero about nutrition, brilliant when discussing medical drugs though. Obviously you are in the same boat. You do not have to stick to your rigid professional stance unless you are incapable of doing so.

Again, I work within the industry not for any biotech company - touching many different sizes of pharma and biotech all focused on diseases and med device developments and moving advancements through the necessary testing phases to the commercial market. A process that takes about 8-10 years.  A process that has a wide mouth at the top end of the funnel and filters out the poorer compounds on the basis of efficacy, selectiveness, and a safety profile. The commonality among these companies is that they are all focused on increased quality of life for patients.

Again, you are totally omitting what the human body is craving for, proper nutrition. Your focus is on non synergistic drugs whether you realize it or not, which rarely if ever treats the cause, only the symptoms, leading to further drugs down the line.

I'll not make a deal about your own typo here, but every drug going back to Asprin have side effect potential. Everything you put in your body, including Vitamin C, D, and Turmeric have side effect potential. In Toxicology it is the dose that makes the poison, not necessarily the compound. This holds true for your supplements as well.

Please list the side effects of Vitamin C, D and Turmeric. Are we talking about a truck load here at once or what? With every drug, even at the recommended dosage, there is usually a side effect.  Your knowledge of supplements is as expected.

It's OK to admit that this is your personally held belief, and that you do not have an exhaustive body of evidence to stand behind this broad bush stroke.

Are you trying to tell me that an unhealthy lifestyle does not inevitably leads to illness, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc? Do you also not agree that most people when getting ill will turn to their MD for help instead of going the natural route? The convenience of a pill, the easy way out, you figure this is not one of the deciding factors? Do you realize that it takes a massive amount of will power for people to change their unhealthy ways. You are gone way too far down the rabbit hole.

Which of the hundreds of diseases that make up the overall term "Cancer" are you referring to? Cancer is a catch all term of a number of sub cancers, many of them treatable and curable now THANKS to advancements in medicine.

Pancreatic Cancer is the most difficult of all to cure, but it can happen meaning all cancers can be cured. Length of cancer is also an issue. Whether the patient first went through chemo and radiation is a major factor, their chances of survival is greatly reduced. A peaceful, non suffering ending may be the best to hope for. 

Great, cure stage 1 cancers and possibly some Stage 2. Those who survive will almost certainly be on several medications for the rest of their lives. Treatment usually runs at of cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Zero quality of live. For each person who doesn't make it, 1M seems to be the average price tag and that could only be for one year of cancer treatment, here in the US anyway. Functional and Integrative Medicine on the other usually hand can run less than 10k, sometimes way less, with a far greater chance of survival. There are a number of factors that must align, please don't have me explain it to you, you have wasted enough of my time. Look up Functional Medicine, you will get the answers and possibly (extremely doubtful) open your rigid mind.

Pure nonsense on the whole to suggest that a cure for "Cancer" has been found and the fame and fortune who await the individuals who rid the human race of such a brutal scourge is being suppressed. That is possibly the most ludicrous of all your suggestions. There are many drugs that completely wipe out cancerous cells in the human body. The challenge is that they may well wipe out everything else and they are often incredibly potent and dangerous when they are not as selective on cancer cells and specific tissues as intended. There are some wonderful new therapies coming out every year in immunology and the pharmaceutical industry is gaining ground on specific cancers every year.

The sentence in bold: You said a mouthful there, in other words patients die from the "cure" as I have already mentioned and a terrible death at that. This is well know within the industry, why keep doing it? Not acceptable.

I'll give you one person to look up, Max Gerson. I can give you many more but why bother. Forget about going to Wikipedia, a punch of lies but I do expect you to settle for it. The Gerson Institute, founded by his daughter, curing patients of several diseases since 1978. There are even better locations in different parts of the world.

A new promising drug, a new trial, every cancer patient hears that one. Will it ever end? Since Nixon declared the war on cancer in 1971,  it has still remained right behind heart disease as the second cause of death with no end in sight.

[Seamus]

There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly".  I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

Umm, What? I am not discussing the origin or spread of the virus.

You have some strong space cadet vibes. Check your dosages.

Well I'm bringing it into the conversation. Unable to answer, not surprising. Then attack. "Check your dosages", said by a true drug pusher.

[Milltown Row2]

Jesus Seamus good diet and exercise? And of course turmeric! f**k me!!

Any balloon knows good exercise good diet will prevent illness or other older aged conditions you'd have to be a complete eejit to need to ask a doctor about prevention methods.

If you don't then you truly are fucked.

The stress will kill you quicker worrying about all the conspiracies theories you have locked in your head..

[trailer]

Honest question Seamus, if you got ill would you take medicine prescribed by a doctor? What about if you were unconscious and unable to give consent, have you instructed family not to allow Doctors to intervene? Genuinely interested in where you draw lines medically.

I don't take prescription drugs nor do I take over the counter drugs so why should I go to a doctor for a prescription? There would only be very few exceptions. I do know plenty about Lyme disease and Babesia, both very familiar, Babesia being worse. Then intravenous antibiotics is necessary in an immediate life threatening situation. Sleeping tablets are almost a must due to one of the many side effects of the antibiotics.  Red blood cell could become 15% affected within days of symptoms in the case of Babesia. Pain killers of course has its uses.

I have no fear of cancer. If I ever get cancer, no chemo or radiation for me thank you very much. I have witnessed some terrible deaths by friends going down that route. The patient in most cases dies of the cure not the cancer. Cancer is a multi billion dollar industry, Big Pharma have no interest in the cure and there is a cure, not the Big Pharma way and you will nor find out by turning on the tv either. The cure comes in the form of Functional and Integrative Medicine. I have paid for patients, not only of cancer, to follow this path and will do so well into the future, it is one of my life's missions.

Personally I'm a firm believer in "an ounce of prevention is better that a pound of cure". Hospitals and doctor offices would be closing down by the minute if everybody followed that path, they need sick people to survive. Medical school do not teach nutrition, maybe 15 hours in total if that at all. The likes of Vitamin C, D3/K2, Turmeric/Curcumin etc is a foreign language to them. No wonder we have a world full of ill people with most over 40 on some form of prescription drug on a daily basis along with being overweight. They all have one thing in common, they "believe the science".

Unconscious from what? What is wrong with being placed on life support in the case of a car accident for instance? We are not talking about illness here, this is emergency care, totally different subjects. You will need to give me an example of exactly what you are talking about.

Well if for example you were in a car accident, and they had to sedate you to ventilate you or put you into a coma they use drugs to do that and to keep you sedated. Would you ask that your family don't allow doctors to do that? Even if you broke your leg you'd be given pain relief. I am genuinely curious.

[Milltown Row2]

Honest question Seamus, if you got ill would you take medicine prescribed by a doctor? What about if you were unconscious and unable to give consent, have you instructed family not to allow Doctors to intervene? Genuinely interested in where you draw lines medically.

I don't take prescription drugs nor do I take over the counter drugs so why should I go to a doctor for a prescription? There would only be very few exceptions. I do know plenty about Lyme disease and Babesia, both very familiar, Babesia being worse. Then intravenous antibiotics is necessary in an immediate life threatening situation. Sleeping tablets are almost a must due to one of the many side effects of the antibiotics.  Red blood cell could become 15% affected within days of symptoms in the case of Babesia. Pain killers of course has its uses.

I have no fear of cancer. If I ever get cancer, no chemo or radiation for me thank you very much. I have witnessed some terrible deaths by friends going down that route. The patient in most cases dies of the cure not the cancer. Cancer is a multi billion dollar industry, Big Pharma have no interest in the cure and there is a cure, not the Big Pharma way and you will nor find out by turning on the tv either. The cure comes in the form of Functional and Integrative Medicine. I have paid for patients, not only of cancer, to follow this path and will do so well into the future, it is one of my life's missions.

Personally I'm a firm believer in "an ounce of prevention is better that a pound of cure". Hospitals and doctor offices would be closing down by the minute if everybody followed that path, they need sick people to survive. Medical school do not teach nutrition, maybe 15 hours in total if that at all. The likes of Vitamin C, D3/K2, Turmeric/Curcumin etc is a foreign language to them. No wonder we have a world full of ill people with most over 40 on some form of prescription drug on a daily basis along with being overweight. They all have one thing in common, they "believe the science".

Unconscious from what? What is wrong with being placed on life support in the case of a car accident for instance? We are not talking about illness here, this is emergency care, totally different subjects. You will need to give me an example of exactly what you are talking about.

Well if for example you were in a car accident, and they had to sedate you to ventilate you or put you into a coma they use drugs to do that and to keep you sedated. Would you ask that your family don't allow doctors to do that? Even if you broke your leg you'd be given pain relief. I am genuinely curious.

He'll not be doing it and has told his family they aint allowed unless its a table spoon of turmeric

[thebigfella]

Seamus it's not big Pharma to blame, it's that Mary Poppins one going around feeding people spoonfuls of sugar.

[trueblue1234]

There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly". I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

I've little interest in pursuing this debate with you as I can see a lost case when it's in front of me. And the rapidly approaching rabbit hole is something I'd prefer to avoid for both our sakes.

However on the highlighted bit. Have a google, there are any number of articles ( I'm sure even a few from sources you'd accept) that confirm what I said. If you've something to dispute these multiple sources then I'd be keen to hear it.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/china-releases-genetic-data-new-coronavirus-now-deadly

[Seamus]

There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly". I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

I've little interest in pursuing this debate with you as I can see a lost case when it's in front of me. And the rapidly approaching rabbit hole is something I'd prefer to avoid for both our sakes.

However on the highlighted bit. Have a google, there are any number of articles ( I'm sure even a few from sources you'd accept) that confirm what I said. If you've something to dispute these multiple sources then I'd be keen to hear it.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/china-releases-genetic-data-new-coronavirus-now-deadly

So that's the best you can do trueblue? Some scientific document that was, a bat mind you or was it a dog? I agree, no need to debate that nonsense. I'll love ye and leave ye guys, the very best of luck, stay healthy, stay safe.  May drop back in in a year or two, then again maybe not.