China Coronavirus

[Hound]

Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.

The logical and rational conclusion is they are liars though

Yes point well made about wasting your time.

Some people don't have meaningful interaction with real life people, all their views are based on what they gleam from the internet (where they seek out information to confirm their bias) 
These people are few and far between, but shout loudly.

In my circle of friends, family and work colleagues, I don't know a single person who doesn't want the vaccine. Mostly because they know people who have had Covid, and they don't want to get it, nor do they want to place friends/family in jeopardy.

[Milltown Row2]

Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.

This is the disingenuous and purely speculative nonsense that has become par the course for the zealots on here.

Forget the truth, forge the facts, forget things we actually and just engage in hysterical and unproven speculation to pedal your agenda.

It is clear from the vaccine uptake that the public, especially in the UK and Ireland, have overwhelmingly opted to believe in science and expertise, rather than listen to deniers and uninformed online lunatics like yourself. You have lost all arguments so time for you to find a new hobby.

They have done whatever the authorities have told them to do.

I haven't lost any arguments, I have made the most logical and accurate arguments.

Unlike you zealots. I haven't demanded people conform to my views, I haven't tried to label, vilify or shame those with a different view which has been the modus operandi of you and your buddies.

I have made a rational case that people should be allowed make their own informed decisions without prejudices.

Sadly that sort of Independent thinking does not conform with zealotry and that's why I have you and your fellow zealots so rattled.

You left out Nazi Germany in your post

[Angelo]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

[Angelo]

Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.

This is the disingenuous and purely speculative nonsense that has become par the course for the zealots on here.

Forget the truth, forge the facts, forget things we actually and just engage in hysterical and unproven speculation to pedal your agenda.

It is clear from the vaccine uptake that the public, especially in the UK and Ireland, have overwhelmingly opted to believe in science and expertise, rather than listen to deniers and uninformed online lunatics like yourself. You have lost all arguments so time for you to find a new hobby.

They have done whatever the authorities have told them to do.

I haven't lost any arguments, I have made the most logical and accurate arguments.

Unlike you zealots. I haven't demanded people conform to my views, I haven't tried to label, vilify or shame those with a different view which has been the modus operandi of you and your buddies.

I have made a rational case that people should be allowed make their own informed decisions without prejudices.

Sadly that sort of Independent thinking does not conform with zealotry and that's why I have you and your fellow zealots so rattled.

You left out Nazi Germany in your post

Going to make a few more posts hoping I die today?

Unbelievable that the moderator did not issue you with a ban for your post this morning.

Quite frankly undermines any single rule we have on this board when you have impunity to insult and wish death on other posters.

[trueblue1234]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

[Angelo]

Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.

The logical and rational conclusion is they are liars though

Yes point well made about wasting your time.

Some people don't have meaningful interaction with real life people, all their views are based on what they gleam from the internet (where they seek out information to confirm their bias) 
These people are few and far between, but shout loudly.

In my circle of friends, family and work colleagues, I don't know a single person who doesn't want the vaccine. Mostly because they know people who have had Covid, and they don't want to get it, nor do they want to place friends/family in jeopardy.

Hound really likes to project his own shortcomings on this board.

His contributions seem to be wholesale bigoted views and gaslighting other posters indirectly.

What you have said there actually sums up yourself perfectly but you seem to lack any of the self awareness to realise that.

[Angelo]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.

[trueblue1234]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.

It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

[Angelo]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.

It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.

[trueblue1234]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.

It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.

So no articles mention organ damage? Scarring of the lung tissue etc?

[Angelo]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.

It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.

So no articles mention organ damage? Scarring of the lung tissue etc?

Not generally, people who had bad doses of Covid will naturally take longer to recover fully. The main thing I see mentioned with Covid but be fatigue which sometimes can be known as laziness.

Do you think it suits certain people to claim Long Covid? Yes or no.

[Franko]

But there is already evidence of Long Covid. Some pretty grim reading on the impacts of it on people. It's not theoretical. And it seems to be hitting the younger age groups as well.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-20/long-covid-one-in-seven-younger-people-suffer-symptoms-up-to-six-months-after-catching-coronavirus

That's not long term.

If you have had a proper flu in the past you will know that it takes months to get back to 100%.

Long Covid is a complete and utter joke and the oxegen a hypochondriac or a lazy person needs.

How many months does it take to get back to 100% if you've suffered from non-reversible lung damage?

I was unaware Covid was the only thing that causes non-reversible lung damage.

Was also unaware how we suddenly have so many respiratory experts on the forum?

Or maybe we just have chaps like you speaking authoritatively on things they neither know about or understand?

Au contraire, I merely posed a question.

The only one speaking "authoritatively" here is yourself - see highlighted section.

Your hysterical reaction to my question is telling.

[Evil Genius]

What do we know about long term effects of the vaccine? Nothing.

What do we know about long term effects of Covid. Not a lot.

What do we know about long term effects of dying from Covid? Quite a lot, actually, not least that it's long term. Very long term, in fact.

It's a personal choice. When you see a few eejits like Trailer calling people uneducated because they don't see an upside into getting it and wanting sanctions put on them for exercising their own decisions then IMO it's people like him who are not only uneducated but dangerous. 90% of people who are getting the vaccine or doing so because they are being told to or being coerced into it.

Good grief! Self-awareness clearly isn't your strong suit.

You complain when one invidual stereotypes the minority of non-vaccinated people as "uneducated", then in the same breath you stereotype the great majority of people who choose to be vaccinated as only doing so because "they were told, or were coerced into it".

I look at it from the point of view, which is backed up by statistical data, Covid is not a threat to my demograph. There's more chance of me sitting into my car today, driving 20 miles and dying or getting seriously injured than there is of getting Covid and dying of getting seriously injured.

Covid may not threatedn you with ill-health or death. But that's not the only reason for you to get vaccinated.

For younger people can still become infected without symptoms, without even knowing it, but then pass on the infection to others who are vulnerable. So that unless you don't have parents or grandparents, aunts or uncles, older neighbours or workmates etc, then you are putting others at risk.

Which alone is extremely selfish, but in fact it's worse than that. For there is evidence that one of the strains of the new Indian variant may be attacking younger children:
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-why-singapore-is-shutting-down-schools-over-fears-about-b-1-617-covid-variant-7320318/
(Note that the corona virus behind Spanish Flu in 1917/18/19, which killen tens of millions, was the reverse of Covid-19 in that it predominantly killed young adults, but spared older adults.)

And that's the thing about viruses: they mutate all the time. And the more widespread they are, the more new variant strains can evolve, which may affect new demographics and/or outwit current vaccines and medical procedures.

Meaning that until we get on top of this virus, we are constantly at future risk, with the only sure way of getting on top being mass vaccination to achieve herd immunity.

Which won't happen while selfish and (apparently) wilfully obtuse people like you hold onto your position come-what-may, even in the face of all evidence and reason. 

I wonder do these same zealots who demand people get the vaccine, those who vilify, shame and insult those who choose not to get the flu jab every year or are they just moronic hypocrites. It's people like these who are a fickle mob and no doubt would have been front and centre when Hitler was whipping up Nazi Germany.

"Nazi Germany" - fcuk me sideways. 

Since you appear to be confusing the Nuremburg Laws with Godwin's Law, here's a primer for you:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nuremberg-laws
versus
https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/340583?redirectedFrom=Godwin%27s+law#eid

[trueblue1234]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.

It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.

So no articles mention organ damage? Scarring of the lung tissue etc?

Not generally, people who had bad doses of Covid will naturally take longer to recover fully. The main thing I see mentioned with Covid but be fatigue which sometimes can be known as laziness.

Do you think it suits certain people to claim Long Covid? Yes or no.

Some people yes. Same as any illness. People can take advantage. But only an idiot would think that because some people might take advantage of it, that it doesn't exist.

Plus you need to do some more reading.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4470
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-survivors-can-suffer-damage-to-almost-every-major-organ-12027749

I'm assuming now your educated you will amend your view on long Covid.

[Angelo]

You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.

It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.

So no articles mention organ damage? Scarring of the lung tissue etc?

Not generally, people who had bad doses of Covid will naturally take longer to recover fully. The main thing I see mentioned with Covid but be fatigue which sometimes can be known as laziness.

Do you think it suits certain people to claim Long Covid? Yes or no.

Some people yes. Same as any illness. People can take advantage. But only an idiot would think that because some people might take advantage of it, that it doesn't exist.

Plus you need to do some more reading.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4470
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-survivors-can-suffer-damage-to-almost-every-major-organ-12027749

I'm assuming now your educated you will amend your view on long Covid.

Certainly nowhere near as widespread or common as being made out. It would be natural for people who have had a severe case of some illness to have some associated problems for some time after. That does not legitimise terming a new disease for it.

Do we have flu and long flu?
Do we have glandular fever and long glandular fever?
Do we have pneumonia and long pneumonia?
Do we have a common cold and a long common cold?