China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.

Asking Angelo for a straight answer is one of life's great mysteries. Many have tried and spoken about it but few have ever seen it.

Odd that is was you who ran away from me and put me on ignore when you couldn't deal with being exposed as a liar on alcohol related deaths.

You now take shots from the sideline rather than directly engage me.

Can I ask dublin7 and Rossfan if they are really committed to ignoring me that they stop commenting from the sideline about me, I'm saying this for your own sake because it just shows that you are still sore from the beatdown I gave you in previous encounters.

[Milltown Row2]

Can someone change the title to the British flu virus please.

Let's open up a thread on comparing flu with Covid

Then open a thread on flu, particularly the 17/18 winter

[PadraicHenryPearse]

how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.

I'm on about mass testing now. I've never ever heard of anyone being referred for a flu test. Let me get this straight, you are now contending that we do in fact have mass testing for flu? Have you any proof of that? 80m Covid tests in under 12 months in the UK, 3.3m in the Free State in the same timeframe. On an annual basis how much many people do we mass test for flu? Please answer this as you seem to be contending that we do mass test for flu.

Why would you say no to death? It's an absolute fact that Covid death tolls include anyone who returned a positive Covid test, regardless of whether it was the actual primary cause of death. This is clearly stated on the notes on NISRA's figures. So if the positive cases go up then invariably the death cases will go up to to the arbitrary manner they are recorded in.

based on your inability to answer my question you have completely shown your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous. thats just one sign of your disingenuous engagement

you didnt state mass testing. you asked me how many tests in uk first then how many in ireland and then asked me is there a testing system. i dont know the answer to those questions and either do you or at least you have not provided a source to the answer of those questions. i said i saw reference to testing not that we do mass testing for flu.

back to facts, as you have never heard of anyone being refered for a flu test they dont exist??? you then go on to infer stuff i never said. i even went as far as actually answering the question you were trying to ask but were unable to articulate it.
i did offer this, i think you might have deliberately missed it...

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

you are changing the last question now and want me to elaborate when it was a yes/no question. Since you cannot answer my question when i gave you the yes/no answer  to yours, i see no point in continuing responding to you. ill happily elaborate if you provide the yes/no answer to my question. Do you have the moral courage?

[Angelo]

how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.

I'm on about mass testing now. I've never ever heard of anyone being referred for a flu test. Let me get this straight, you are now contending that we do in fact have mass testing for flu? Have you any proof of that? 80m Covid tests in under 12 months in the UK, 3.3m in the Free State in the same timeframe. On an annual basis how much many people do we mass test for flu? Please answer this as you seem to be contending that we do mass test for flu.

Why would you say no to death? It's an absolute fact that Covid death tolls include anyone who returned a positive Covid test, regardless of whether it was the actual primary cause of death. This is clearly stated on the notes on NISRA's figures. So if the positive cases go up then invariably the death cases will go up to to the arbitrary manner they are recorded in.

based on your inability to answer my question you have completely shown your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous. thats just one sign of your disingenuous engagement

you didnt state mass testing. you asked me how many tests in uk first then how many in ireland and then asked me is there a testing system. i dont know the answer to those questions and either do you or at least you have not provided a source to the answer of those questions. i said i saw reference to testing not that we do mass testing for flu.

back to facts, as you have never heard of anyone being refered for a flu test they dont exist??? you then go on to infer stuff i never said. i even went as far as actually answering the question you were trying to ask but were unable to articulate it.
i did offer this, i think you might have deliberately missed it...

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

you are changing the last question now and want me to elaborate when it was a yes/no question. Since you cannot answer my question when i gave you the yes/no answer  to yours, i see no point in continuing responding to you. ill happily elaborate if you provide the yes/no answer to my question. Do you have the moral courage?

I'm the one still awaiting an answer. All you have sought to do is muddy the waters with the most incredible of assertions.

We're not comparing like with like with it comes to case numbers and death totals. To do so we would need mass testing for flu, something we clearly don't have and something you risibily seem to suggest exists (without any evidence offered).

I've already clarified that NISRA figures any death where a positive Covid tests existed within an arbitrary timeframe regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. Now it's very fair to say that if these factors existed for flu, mass testing and arbitrary recording of death as flu related if a positive case exists within a set timeframe as the time of death then both case numbers and deaths would increase by double digit multiples for flu.

If you are going to continue with the fantasy that we carry out mass testing on flu every year then you lose any credibility in this discussion.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

I'm the one still awaiting an answer. All you have sought to do is muddy the waters with the most incredible of assertions.

We're not comparing like with like with it comes to case numbers and death totals. To do so we would need mass testing for flu, something we clearly don't have and something you risibily seem to suggest exists (without any evidence offered).

I've already clarified that NISRA figures any death where a positive Covid tests existed within an arbitrary timeframe regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. Now it's very fair to say that if these factors existed for flu, mass testing and arbitrary recording of death as flu related if a positive case exists within a set timeframe as the time of death then both case numbers and deaths would increase by double digit multiples for flu.

If you are going to continue with the fantasy that we carry out mass testing on flu every year then you lose any credibility in this discussion.

you got there in the end.. you have to compare like with like. hopefully you will do us all a favour and do this in future instead of muddying the waters continuously.

its a fact not an incredible assertation. although not a good comparasion i 100% agree.

i never said we have mass flu testing or implied it, i said i saw reference to testing (not mass testing). as well as issues with using poor comparisons you have comprehansion issues to.

[Angelo]

I'm the one still awaiting an answer. All you have sought to do is muddy the waters with the most incredible of assertions.

We're not comparing like with like with it comes to case numbers and death totals. To do so we would need mass testing for flu, something we clearly don't have and something you risibily seem to suggest exists (without any evidence offered).

I've already clarified that NISRA figures any death where a positive Covid tests existed within an arbitrary timeframe regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. Now it's very fair to say that if these factors existed for flu, mass testing and arbitrary recording of death as flu related if a positive case exists within a set timeframe as the time of death then both case numbers and deaths would increase by double digit multiples for flu.

If you are going to continue with the fantasy that we carry out mass testing on flu every year then you lose any credibility in this discussion.

you got there in the end.. you have to compare like with like. hopefully you will do us all a favour and do this in future instead of muddying the waters continuously.

its a fact not an incredible assertation. although not a good comparasion i 100% agree.

i never said we have mass flu testing or implied it, i said i saw reference to testing (not mass testing). as well as issues with using poor comparisons you have comprehansion issues to.

So we don't have mass flu testing and as a result we don't have arbitrary recordings of deaths as flu related due to a positive test.

If we did have that criteria in place for flu, both flu cases and deaths would rise by double digit multiples every year.

[Cunny Funt]

Weekly update for the ROI. Some decent progress again.

Cases 6,044 (1,126 less than last week)
Reported Deaths 286 (96 less than last week )

In hospital 899 (305 less than last week)
In ICU 160 (18 less than a week ago)

[Rossfan]

Going in the right direction but it's a long haul.

Something for the let it rippers to consider( some of them hopefully have that ability)
9th -13 January
26 - 23,314 cases
6 - 5,663 cases

9th to 13 February
4,427
1,574

[Milltown Row2]

Going in the right direction but it's a long haul.

Something for the let it rippers to consider( some of them hopefully have that ability)
9th -13 January
26 - 23,314 cases
6 - 5,663 cases

9th to 13 February
4,427
1,574

Are they facts or opinions you've put up?

[sid waddell]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop#:~:text=The%20Gish%20gallop%20is%20a,or%20strength%20of%20those%20arguments.

The Gish gallop is a term for an eristic technique in which a debater attempts to overwhelm an opponent by excessive number of arguments, without regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott; it is named after the creationist Duane Gish, who used the technique frequently against proponents of evolution.[1][2] It is similar to a method used in formal debate called spreading.

During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate.[3][4] In practice, each point raised by the "Gish galloper" takes considerably more time to refute or fact-check than it did to state in the first place.[5] The technique wastes an opponent's time and may cast doubt on the opponent's debating ability for an audience unfamiliar with the technique, especially if no independent fact-checking is involved[6] or if the audience has limited knowledge of the topics.

[sid waddell]

Going in the right direction but it's a long haul.

Something for the let it rippers to consider( some of them hopefully have that ability)
9th -13 January
26 - 23,314 cases
6 - 5,663 cases

9th to 13 February
4,427
1,574

But but but...this can't be right...I thought lockdowns don't work!

[Rossfan]

I wish I had the figures for 9th to 13th December before the "let it sort of rip" consequences started to manifest.

[Angelo]

Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

[sid waddell]

Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

Have you had the balls to seek a psychiatrist yet?

[sid waddell]

Here's an excellent thread demolishing the self styled social media grifter "The Fat Emperor", one of the most dangerous purveyors of bullshit on Covid

There's a special place in hell reserved for preying scum like Cummins

https://twitter.com/dr_barrett/status/1360940446650929163