China Coronavirus

[APM]

By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

[johnnycool]

Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?

Were you?

I wasn't, neither am I shouting for them now,

I'm not a hypocrite like some on here.

so 22/50K excess deaths over a 4 to 5 month period you could accept??

You were happy to accept it too.

I didn't hear many speaking out against it. Were you looking for lockdowns back then?

You guys seem very preoccupied with what I think but you are not too forthcoming yourselves?

Would it be down to your hypocrisy by any chance? Tell me what you thought about the winter flu season in 17/18 Johnny? Show me your outrage back then where you looked for lockdowns to save lives?

so keep making the same mistakes, is that what you say?

[Angelo]

By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Yes.

But we didn't go into hysterics for that outlier in Jan 2018. The world went on like nothing ever happened, no lockdowns, no murmerings of lockdown, no outrage or even faux outrage. Just an acceptance than these type of things happen from time to time.

[Angelo]

Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?

Were you?

I wasn't, neither am I shouting for them now,

I'm not a hypocrite like some on here.

so 22/50K excess deaths over a 4 to 5 month period you could accept??

You were happy to accept it too.

I didn't hear many speaking out against it. Were you looking for lockdowns back then?

You guys seem very preoccupied with what I think but you are not too forthcoming yourselves?

Would it be down to your hypocrisy by any chance? Tell me what you thought about the winter flu season in 17/18 Johnny? Show me your outrage back then where you looked for lockdowns to save lives?

so keep making the same mistakes, is that what you say?

Do you expect me to keep answering your questions while you rudely ignore mine.

Go back and have a go at answering them or dare you let your contradictions out of the bag?

[APM]

By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Yes.

But we didn't go into hysterics for that outlier in Jan 2018. The world went on like nothing ever happened, no lockdowns, no murmerings of lockdown, no outrage or even faux outrage. Just an acceptance than these type of things happen from time to time.

I'm going to regret responding to this, but:
You can see the difference - it was a WINTER flu in 2018.  Apart from January when the death rate peaked, it was clearly within the boundaries of recent experience.  It came and went.

Covid is different.  Firstly, you can see the death rate clearly increased on a sustained basis, despite rolling lockdowns and social distancing measures.  This is not an argument to remove these pre-cautions (by the way).  What would these figures have been if we hadn't taken those measures?  What would the impact have been on public health services, which are under tremendous stress as it is?

As you say, they were under stress before, but in circumstances of a classic WINTER flu.  Not in the circumstances of an unknown virus which has continued to spread throughout the year and has led to sustained increases in the death rate throughout the autumn. 

Look at the figures.  So much about the 2020 figures is unprecedented in the scale of the figures, sustained nature of the increase and the impact over the course of the year. Covid also unprecedented and is not a winter flu and should not be compared as such.   

[Angelo]

By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Yes.

But we didn't go into hysterics for that outlier in Jan 2018. The world went on like nothing ever happened, no lockdowns, no murmerings of lockdown, no outrage or even faux outrage. Just an acceptance than these type of things happen from time to time.

I'm going to regret responding to this, but:
You can see the difference - it was a WINTER flu in 2018.  Apart from January when the death rate peaked, it was clearly within the boundaries of recent experience.  It came and went.

Covid is different.  Firstly, you can see the death rate clearly increased on a sustained basis, despite rolling lockdowns and social distancing measures.  This is not an argument to remove these pre-cautions (by the way).  What would these figures have been if we hadn't taken those measures?  What would the impact have been on public health services, which are under tremendous stress as it is?

As you say, they were under stress before, but in circumstances of a classic WINTER flu.  Not in the circumstances of an unknown virus which has continued to spread throughout the year and has led to sustained increases in the death rate throughout the autumn. 

Look at the figures.  So much about the 2020 figures is unprecedented in the scale of the figures, sustained nature of the increase and the impact over the course of the year. Covid also unprecedented and is not a winter flu and should not be compared as such.

It comes back every winter. But we don't mind people dying from flu right. Every December, January and February we see more deaths than we do at other stages in the year but hey that's fine - it's only flu they're dying from.

What should matter is people dying, not what they are dying from but this pandemic has put what one ailment ahead of every other one before.

5 people under the age of 40 have been killed by this deadly disease in nearly 12 months. Should we close the roads to save people from road accidents, stop people swimming in the sea to stop them from drowning, stop people cycling on the roads to stop them from being knocked down? We clearly don't give a shit about flu. We wiped out from society according to the experts this year, surely that legislated lockdowns at winter for years to come so if we are being consistent.

[Louther]

Is your point that we don't do enough about the flu, is that what you getting at? You're an advocate for getting rid of the flu and we should be doing far more every flu season to prevent people from dying?

Or you just annoyed cause you missed a trip to Benidorm because people are trying to save life's?

[tonto1888]

Where is the 5 people under 40 stat from? According to the central statistics office between feb and may 2020 there were 17 deaths in under 44s. Are we to believe that 12 of them were between 40-44 and nobody else in that range has died since may last year?

[Louther]

Where is the 5 people under 40 stat from? According to the central statistics office between feb and may 2020 there were 17 deaths in under 44s. Are we to believe that 12 of them were between 40-44 and nobody else in that range has died since may last year?

He generally picks and chooses what country he uses his stats from depending on what been challenged. He flips between "Free State", NI and UK.  He'll likely come back with a report from Outer Mongolia to back himself up.

[pbat]

https://www.independent.ie/news/three-arrested-and-others-fined-as-group-of-30-people-gather-at-holy-shrine-40033934.html?fbclid=IwAR2cmAWk3vT9Ig0-T9VmVZp9zFlJRHzeMPlHDcWbfbc9PaEm2aLmK0dqzio
What took them to St Brigids shrine, they wernt there to say rosery.

[Louther]

https://www.independent.ie/news/three-arrested-and-others-fined-as-group-of-30-people-gather-at-holy-shrine-40033934.html?fbclid=IwAR2cmAWk3vT9Ig0-T9VmVZp9zFlJRHzeMPlHDcWbfbc9PaEm2aLmK0dqzio
What took them to St Brigids shrine, they wernt there to say rosery.

This was my neck of woods and weren't there to pray but some of the anti-lockdown degenerates that follow Gemma O Doherty. The wee one with the crutch, Dee, was one of them in attendance. They wanted to be there cause they shouldn't have been there and interfered with many others who wanted to attend for their own religious reasons. As usual refused several requests to leave and got rightly arrested for failure to do so quoting obscure oaths to Garda and references to the constitution.

[pbat]

Lowlifes, I am all for peaceful protesting but when you aim from the start is just to provoke and upset others you deserve all you get. I be remanding them to the Joy for a while to cool of.  One of them is spouting online about 300 Muslims been allowed to attend Croke Park to pray. Not sure when this is supposed to have happened.

[imtommygunn]

I think the Muslim prayer thing did happen though I think any normal thinking person wouldn't have an issue.

There is a social media video doing the rounds of a ward in Scotland I think it is. It is actually an uncomfortable watch where "deniers" come in to drag an older family member out of the ward. When they are warned to leave him there as he needs to be in the hospital for treatment the response is that all he needs is vitamin c and d and he will be fine. This is met with the doctor saying there is no medical evidence to support this at all.

The internet and all the misinformation that comes with it creates this kind of situation but it can become very dangerous for people. O'Doherty another illustration of that danger.

[Smokin Joe]

Covid experts in the North what are my best options for getting regular staff testing. We're a construction company doing essential work on mid Ulster site. Client getting spooked after a couple went down with Covid last week and talking about us implementing checks. What would be most cost effective way?

TIA

As it happens I received this message to on LinkedIn. No clue what they are like; simply passing it on. Let me know if you want the guy's email address by PM

"We are offering rapid Covid-19 test kits for your business.
They are easy to use and give results in 15 minutes with an accuracy of 99.3%.
They are available in boxes of 25 at £187.50 +VAT (£7.50/test).

Please message me or email me on xxxxx@meditech.uk.com for more info."

[APM]

By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Yes.

But we didn't go into hysterics for that outlier in Jan 2018. The world went on like nothing ever happened, no lockdowns, no murmerings of lockdown, no outrage or even faux outrage. Just an acceptance than these type of things happen from time to time.

I'm going to regret responding to this, but:
You can see the difference - it was a WINTER flu in 2018.  Apart from January when the death rate peaked, it was clearly within the boundaries of recent experience.  It came and went.

Covid is different.  Firstly, you can see the death rate clearly increased on a sustained basis, despite rolling lockdowns and social distancing measures.  This is not an argument to remove these pre-cautions (by the way).  What would these figures have been if we hadn't taken those measures?  What would the impact have been on public health services, which are under tremendous stress as it is?

As you say, they were under stress before, but in circumstances of a classic WINTER flu.  Not in the circumstances of an unknown virus which has continued to spread throughout the year and has led to sustained increases in the death rate throughout the autumn. 

Look at the figures.  So much about the 2020 figures is unprecedented in the scale of the figures, sustained nature of the increase and the impact over the course of the year. Covid also unprecedented and is not a winter flu and should not be compared as such.

It comes back every winter. But we don't mind people dying from flu right. Every December, January and February we see more deaths than we do at other stages in the year but hey that's fine - it's only flu they're dying from.

What should matter is people dying, not what they are dying from but this pandemic has put what one ailment ahead of every other one before.

5 people under the age of 40 have been killed by this deadly disease in nearly 12 months. Should we close the roads to save people from road accidents, stop people swimming in the sea to stop them from drowning, stop people cycling on the roads to stop them from being knocked down? We clearly don't give a shit about flu. We wiped out from society according to the experts this year, surely that legislated lockdowns at winter for years to come so if we are being consistent.

I'm not impressed by your arguments which are all over the place. 

The flu does matter and every year the government does a major campaign to promote the flu vaccine.  Resources are managed in anticipation of flu season.  However, the impact of classic winter flu versus Covid is clearly different, in terms of death rates.  Also in terms of the severity of illness, the ease of spread, the long term impact (long covid) and the fact that it clearly remains active in the population throughout the year.  Therefore to manage the risk of Covid, which is greater in terms of public health systems and individual outcomes, stronger measures must be taken. 

We don't close the roads to protect people from road accidents.  But the government has legislate for speed limits, seatbelts, drink driving and a highway code, etc (and there are nutters that object to tough drink driving limits, so you are in good company).  These are all about managing risks, to get the death rate on our roads down to lower levels - they peaked in the 1970s I think. The drink driving anaolgy is a good one, because when you drive like a lunatic or with drink taken, you put others' lives at risk also. 

Lifeguards are stationed at beaches to reduce the risk of drowning and signage is used to discourage people from swimming to reduce risk. Once again, managing risk. Again, some people choose to ignore warnings, putting themselves and others (rescuers) in danger. 

Social distancing measures and masks are just another way of managing risk, albeit of a pandemic, the like of which no one in living memory has ever experienced.  You seem to think that these steps were taken lightly.  The UK government had to be dragged kicking and screaming to implement these measures. The Dublin government reacted more readily, but at times have been slow to follow NPHET.  Why? Because these measures are unprecedented, but with good cause.