China Coronavirus

[Louther]

NIRSA figures show an increase for a few months but nothing excessive. Not comparing to HSE? Why not? Did the flu stop at the border but was other factors in play.

Also, your 50,000 excess deaths in UK for 2018. This was above the average for a period, not 50k excess from 2017, was an actual increase of approx 10k on 2017 and 30k on 2016. Part of these increases were attributed to the flu but also to the extremely cold spell in 2018 which made older people more vulnerable to various illness.

And in case you didn't notice, Covid isn't exclusive to the UK, so why you just looking at UK figures. Hardly just as it suits your agenda?

Do you think that without restrictions that the death toll be the same? Or not realise it be a total sh*w show, even with how bad it has been?

So now you are trying to manipulate statistics to say that a few months of excess deaths is ok. Jan 2018 is a record death total in a month for the past 20 years, it's ok though right? I

We had a vaccine for the flu, didn't stop a shitshow then but it also didn't seem to bother people either that so many died in that month.

Covid sure has a way of showing people for being gullible and hysterical.

We've had an extremely cold spell this month. It was -7 when I got up the other morning for work, will I chalk those Covid deaths down to a cold snap so?

You are jumping through hoops to justify your contradictions.

There he goes, applying his own logic and "facts" to replies other people have made.

I have said that the excess deaths where attributable to flu and other factors.
Give me the specific statistic I have manipulated. Read a few reports on the 2018 flu season from the UK and they will all reference exactly what I have. Here is a very detailed report of factors, comparisons etc.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

All compared to the previous years (2017,2016) and increase I have referenced.

The flu Vaccine was met with a new variant, all explained to you before, that limited it's effectiveness. But it was a starting point, that we still don't have with Covid. That is very basic information that a reasonable person can understand.

[Angelo]

NIRSA figures show an increase for a few months but nothing excessive. Not comparing to HSE? Why not? Did the flu stop at the border but was other factors in play.

Also, your 50,000 excess deaths in UK for 2018. This was above the average for a period, not 50k excess from 2017, was an actual increase of approx 10k on 2017 and 30k on 2016. Part of these increases were attributed to the flu but also to the extremely cold spell in 2018 which made older people more vulnerable to various illness.

And in case you didn't notice, Covid isn't exclusive to the UK, so why you just looking at UK figures. Hardly just as it suits your agenda?

Do you think that without restrictions that the death toll be the same? Or not realise it be a total sh*w show, even with how bad it has been?

So now you are trying to manipulate statistics to say that a few months of excess deaths is ok. Jan 2018 is a record death total in a month for the past 20 years, it's ok though right? I

We had a vaccine for the flu, didn't stop a shitshow then but it also didn't seem to bother people either that so many died in that month.

Covid sure has a way of showing people for being gullible and hysterical.

We've had an extremely cold spell this month. It was -7 when I got up the other morning for work, will I chalk those Covid deaths down to a cold snap so?

You are jumping through hoops to justify your contradictions.

There he goes, applying his own logic and "facts" to replies other people have made.

I have said that the excess deaths where attributable to flu and other factors.
Give me the specific statistic I have manipulated. Read a few reports on the 2018 flu season from the UK and they will all reference exactly what I have. Here is a very detailed report of factors, comparisons etc.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

All compared to the previous years (2017,2016) and increase I have referenced.

The flu Vaccine was met with a new variant, all explained to you before, that limited it's effectiveness. But it was a starting point, that we still don't have with Covid. That is very basic information that a reasonable person can understand.

But you are justifying those figures, rolling out excuses as to why society had to accept them. Why did we not lockdown then, why were people not hysterical about that level of death.

It's a complete and utter double standard.

[trueblue1234]

It's been done before with Angelo over why comparing 2020 with 2018 is pointless. Your comparing a year with lockdowns against a year with none. Your comparing the worst winter deaths (Not flu) in 40 odd years with year 1 of Covid. But it's a fruitless discussion.

I know why you guys don't like comparing it.

It's hard to justify your stance on Covid when you were willing to accept and do nothing when 2,101 people died in Jan 2018. If you tolerated that and said nothing then how can you justify the reaction to Covid?

It's complete and utter double standards. It's not pointless. it is incredibly relevant.

As I said fruitless discussion. Your desperation to compare apples with oranges over rides everything.

[imtommygunn]

Why isn't this comparison all over the internet, the media, political discussions across all of the UK and the discussions that the CMOs have?

[Angelo]

It's been done before with Angelo over why comparing 2020 with 2018 is pointless. Your comparing a year with lockdowns against a year with none. Your comparing the worst winter deaths (Not flu) in 40 odd years with year 1 of Covid. But it's a fruitless discussion.

I know why you guys don't like comparing it.

It's hard to justify your stance on Covid when you were willing to accept and do nothing when 2,101 people died in Jan 2018. If you tolerated that and said nothing then how can you justify the reaction to Covid?

It's complete and utter double standards. It's not pointless. it is incredibly relevant.

As I said fruitless discussion. Your desperation to compare apples with oranges over rides everything.

Death at winter is not an apples v oranges debate.

Saving lives doesn't seem to be the modus operandi of lockdowns, hysteria does.

[Angelo]

Why isn't this comparison all over the internet, the media, political discussions across all of the UK and the discussions that the CMOs have?

The same reason CMOs are not blaming hospitals and health sector they have a responsibility in running are a huge factor in deaths. It's easier for them to blame the people. Just as its easier for governments to blame the people or new variants.

[imtommygunn]

So basically you think this is all a cover up lol. Gotcha.

[Louther]

Society didn't accept them - every year there is a campaign to get more people to take the flu jab. The health service increase capacity and it remains stretched but it can function and maintain its services and elective functions. It's constantly on the news in these times about bed shortages and trolley counts, it's a main talking point in political elections, etc etc. It's not ignored nor is  it accepted.

The development of the vaccine for the flu has been massive and even it can't keep ahead of the flu.

Covid isn't in same league as the flu. Much higher mortality rate, no vaccine, not enough known on its treatments, transmission, mutations. No one knows how it will develop into the future.

The bottom line is that Angelo is one of these people who care not for others, he holds no responsibility for anyone but Angelo. He's obviously annoyed he can't get to Benidorm or to the pub at the weekend and thinks he's that he is been wronged and nothing else really matters. He should be able to do what he pleases, to hell with everyone else.

[trueblue1234]

It's been done before with Angelo over why comparing 2020 with 2018 is pointless. Your comparing a year with lockdowns against a year with none. Your comparing the worst winter deaths (Not flu) in 40 odd years with year 1 of Covid. But it's a fruitless discussion.

I know why you guys don't like comparing it.

It's hard to justify your stance on Covid when you were willing to accept and do nothing when 2,101 people died in Jan 2018. If you tolerated that and said nothing then how can you justify the reaction to Covid?

It's complete and utter double standards. It's not pointless. it is incredibly relevant.

As I said fruitless discussion. Your desperation to compare apples with oranges over rides everything.

Death at winter is not an apples v oranges debate.

Saving lives doesn't seem to be the modus operandi of lockdowns, hysteria does.

Comparing 2020 with 2018 is very much apples and oranges. If there had been no restrictions in 2020 then it may have been a discussion. Albeit slightly skewed by the fact you've picked the worst year in 40. But definitely a valid comparison. However there were restrictions in 2020. So the comparison is pointless.

[APM]

Just taking your data source and comparing every monthly death total against the previous four year average tells you that 2020 is an outlier.

• 12% higher than the average of the four previous years. Unprecedented level of increase in the 10 year period
• Increases of over 10% in 6 months of the year, again unprecedented
• Note that in previous years, where there was a 10% increase in one month, there may have been have been a 9 or 10% decrease the following month.
  This didn't happen in 2020, where there have been no months of significant decrease since the crisis began
• January 2018 was an outlier in the context of 2018.  But there were some months where there were substantial decreases in 2018.  Not the case in 2020.
• Look at the increase in April against the 4 year average - 53%. Unprecedented level of increase.

When you look at these figures based on a 12 month period from April to March, it will be very telling. 

[Louther]

Excellent summary APM and very worrying figures, a lot of loss of life with all the measures that have been undertaken.

[seafoid]

2020 deaths in England and Wales were 13% higher than 2019

[seafoid]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-thousands-attend-rabbi-s-funeral-in-jerusalem-police-says-won-t-confront-20-000-1.9497649

Thousands Attend Rabbi's Funeral in Jerusalem
Amid COVID Lockdown; Police Say Won't Confront 20,000 mourners

[Boycey]

Covid experts in the North what are my best options for getting regular staff testing. We're a construction company doing essential work on mid Ulster site. Client getting spooked after a couple went down with Covid last week and talking about us implementing checks. What would be most cost effective way?

TIA

[Angelo]

Just taking your data source and comparing every monthly death total against the previous four year average tells you that 2020 is an outlier.

• 12% higher than the average of the four previous years. Unprecedented level of increase in the 10 year period
• Increases of over 10% in 6 months of the year, again unprecedented
• Note that in previous years, where there was a 10% increase in one month, there may have been have been a 9 or 10% decrease the following month.
  This didn't happen in 2020, where there have been no months of significant decrease since the crisis began
• January 2018 was an outlier in the context of 2018.  But there were some months where there were substantial decreases in 2018.  Not the case in 2020.
• Look at the increase in April against the 4 year average - 53%. Unprecedented level of increase.

When you look at these figures based on a 12 month period from April to March, it will be very telling.

April is a huge outlier.