China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

From the NISRA website.

Look at the note in red



Covid deaths are classified in a arbitrary manner regardless of whether it actually played any role in the loss of life.

Just imagine we did the same with flu. Just imagine we tested 1m odd people for flu every winter and put anyone of those people who tested positive for flu and died down as a flu death.

[thebigfella]

I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.

"Provided that is indeed correct"

I don't think we can say either way at the minute.

We will have to wait and see, we know very little about these vaccines in reality.

Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

[Taylor]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

Considering the amount of shite you have come out with on this thread I dont think the Nazi party would considering taking you

[Milltown Row2]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

[Angelo]

Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html

[Angelo]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

[Milltown Row2]

Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html

How many of those drugs from that 2018 link have been scrapped or found to be deadly.. I couldn't read it all. I'm sure it's in there some where

[Milltown Row2]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

[Franko]

One thing the English have excelled in since time immemorial is statistics and keeping records.

The ONS have released a preliminary comprehensive stats report for deaths in 2020. They're included in this document.
https://tinyurl.com/y37h42gj

One outstanding stat is the  high nr of excess deaths recorded in England's nursing homes during the 1st wave. And after the first wave excess deaths were kept at a minimum in those homes.
2020 covid death statistics  are compared to flu/pneumonia figures,  similar figures  but
approx  85% of covid deaths were due to covid, whereas 85% of flu/pneumonia death were not due to flu/pneumonia, but where the disease was a contributing factor

Franko and Milltown will take your head off for posting that.

Nah not really.

Why would I?

[Angelo]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

[Milltown Row2]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

I asked you to put up a link or show me a death cert..

You've also, on a few occasions now avoided my question.

Have a bit of common courtesy and answer mine, Just cause you think my answer doesn't suit you, I answered it truthfully all the same

[Angelo]

I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

I asked you to put up a link or show me a death cert..

You've also, on a few occasions now avoided my question.

Have a bit of common courtesy and answer mine, Just cause you think my answer doesn't suit you, I answered it truthfully all the same

I've provided you a link from the NISRA website, the body who publish and record these figures and you're disputing that?

Do you think I'm a coroner?

I'll repeat for you again:

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

[Milltown Row2]

So you haven't evidence on death certs? Anyone that's died of a road crash or cancer died of those traumas, Covid may be in the death cert also, but that's not the reason they died.

So can you answer mine, I've answered your question even though I asked first, and I'm answering it again, you've avoided my questions again after me asking you?

You've haven't answered it anywhere.

[Angelo]

So you haven't evidence on death certs? Anyone that's died of a road crash or cancer died of those traumas, Covid may be in the death cert also, but that's not the reason they died.

So can you answer mine, I've answered your question even though I asked first, and I'm answering it again, you've avoided my questions again after me asking you?

You've haven't answered it anywhere.

I have provided NISRA's clarification which you seem to have completely disregarded. Have you death certs yourself? Seems utterly bizarre you're expecting me to post up death certs. I'll repeat, do you think I'm a coroner? And why are you continuing to disregard NISRA's own clarification.

I've already answered your question here:

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.


We have inadequate information on what people are being admitted to hospital for. We do know that hospitals have been a problem in transmission, we do not know what % of people in those in hospital with Covid were admitted for that reason.

[trueblue1234]

I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.

"
"Provided that is indeed correct"

I don't think we can say either way at the minute.

We will have to wait and see, we know very little about these vaccines in reality.

Sorry bad punctuation. (Ironic given my signature)

"I'm happy enough with the data provided, that it is indeed correct.