China Coronavirus

[sid waddell]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

He had AIDS and the pneumonia he died from was AIDS related

It's not that hard - AIDS or pneumonia?

If somebody has Covid in hospital, they are a Covid admission

My father did not have Covid going into hospital, but he acquired it in hospital - why would he not be a Covid admission?

Because he was not admitted to hospital for Covid. He was admitted for another reason.

I can't answer the initial question and I don't think you can either with all due respect.

But he has Covid

He is in hospital for Covid

He is in a Covid isolation ward - previously he was in a non-Covid public ward - that is a Covid admission

What you are saying is that hospital acquired Covid should not be counted as part of the statistics - but that's nonsense

[sid waddell]

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention.

What about the long term impact of the vaccine on the person who take it.

What you'll find is experts have conflicting views on this and how it has been handled. Anyone who doesn't agree with the mainstream thinking is coined a crank or conspiracy theorist because they have an opposing view, irrespective of their expertise.

Expertise is the most flimsy line of argument out there when the scientific and medical community have very different views on this.

No they don't

There are a small minority of "experts" who have outed themselves as ideological charlatans, who took a particular wrong position early on and have dug into that position in the face of all the evidence - they have decided to enter a fantasy world where they construct a fake reality where they desperately look for evidence to justify the wrong position they took

This is a direct reversal of how medical science should work, this is ideology at work

These are the Great Barrington crowd and especially Sunetra Gupta

We don't hear much from Martin Feely these days, wonder why, I don't actually, it's because he was a crank

Unfortunately we still hear from Karl Deeter

[Angelo]

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention.

What about the long term impact of the vaccine on the person who take it.

What you'll find is experts have conflicting views on this and how it has been handled. Anyone who doesn't agree with the mainstream thinking is coined a crank or conspiracy theorist because they have an opposing view, irrespective of their expertise.

Expertise is the most flimsy line of argument out there when the scientific and medical community have very different views on this.

No they don't

You are either ignorant or a liar.

Plenty of experts are at odds on this.

Your type of dogmatic narrative only serves to undermine your argument.

[sid waddell]

So lock it down and vaxx
And bring the wellness back
Do lockdown and vaxx and bring the wellness back

If the Covid is gone, it's good for you
So lock it down and vaxx, yeah, you know just what to do

[Angelo]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

He had AIDS and the pneumonia he died from was AIDS related

It's not that hard - AIDS or pneumonia?

If somebody has Covid in hospital, they are a Covid admission

My father did not have Covid going into hospital, but he acquired it in hospital - why would he not be a Covid admission?

Because he was not admitted to hospital for Covid. He was admitted for another reason.

I can't answer the initial question and I don't think you can either with all due respect.

But he has Covid

He is in hospital for Covid

He is in a Covid isolation ward - previously he was in a non-Covid public ward - that is a Covid admission

What you are saying is that hospital acquired Covid should not be counted as part of the statistics - but that's nonsense

But he was not admitted for Covid.

He did not need to be hospitalised because he contracted Covid, the reason he was in hospital is relating to another matter. Could you imagine if we classified flu in the same manner during the flu season and that's not trying to downgrade Covid. Flu can be very serious to at risk groupings.

[sid waddell]

But he was not admitted for Covid.

He did not need to be hospitalised because he contracted Covid, the reason he was in hospital is relating to another matter. Could you imagine if we classified flu in the same manner during the flu season and that's not trying to downgrade Covid. Flu can be very serious to at risk groupings.

Sigh

[BennyCake]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

[Angelo]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

[sid waddell]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

The other day you said this

Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.

That's full Gemtrails tinfoil hat plandemic eejitry

[Milltown Row2]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

[Angelo]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

This winter?

You must be illiterate as you are answering something I did not ask?

How many flu cases this winter (not 2020)?

[Milltown Row2]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

This winter?

You must be illiterate as you are answering something I did not ask?

How many flu cases this winter (not 2020)?

for the last 11 days?

Who'd have that information?  The year 2020 which was 12 days ago had over 14,000 deaths.

This last 11 days I haven't that information. Where did you get the information on no deaths?

If you haven't the information then you are making up figures on your own

[BennyCake]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

The other day you said this

Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.

That's full Gemtrails tinfoil hat plandemic eejitry

If you say so.

[imtommygunn]

So what is the agenda Benny? I have heard of this before and I don't understand what people think the agenda is.

[Angelo]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

This winter?

You must be illiterate as you are answering something I did not ask?

How many flu cases this winter (not 2020)?

for the last 11 days?

Who'd have that information?  The year 2020 which was 12 days ago had over 14,000 deaths.

This last 11 days I haven't that information. Where did you get the information on no deaths?

If you haven't the information then you are making up figures on your own

The winter flu starts in Nov/Dec every year.

Why have we not have one confirmed case of flu this winter? It's flabbergasting.