China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

I'd say with all the normal deaths in winter (with flu, chest infections, etc), those put down as covid deaths, when they weren't, are bound to be higher.

It just doesn't add up. In more ways than one.

Precisely, deaths are completely overstated and when it's put to those who record those figures they have acknowledged that deaths are overstated.

[GetOverTheBar]

They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

Exactly - I don't think people are fully comprehending how stuffed the health services are going to be over the next few weeks.

I put the car in to get fixed in Belfast. The roads and pavements were mobbed.

Lockdown can get a lot worse as trailer says and in reality at current rate of growth it is going to happen.

Takeaways closed, B&Ms closed..., off licenses, nurseries, police can check where people are going and why. There are many many ways they can get a lot worse and I would be surprised if that doesn't happen.

What was it a doctor in Cork described it as .... "we are at the gates of hell" I think was his quote.

I mean stopping construction industry, fair enough. Up to the Govt and if they want to pay all for that. The ramifications I'm sure someone in that industry would be able to let you know better than me.

Takeaways, curfews etc? Waste of time and will only turn people against restrictions as is. Remember the Govt need the publics support. At the minute they are blaming them while refusing to acknowledge their own failures (track and trace, years and years of NHS cuts). How long do you think this goes on before people completely stop caring? Not my own beliefs, but you have to acknowledge the majority of people I would say now, just don't care anymore. 

[Angelo]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

[Angelo]

They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

And of course there are absolutely no ramifications on the restrictions you propose, nevermind the current ones in action?

Have we had any cases attributed to takeaways yet?

[smort]

Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

I'd say with all the normal deaths in winter (with flu, chest infections, etc), those put down as covid deaths, when they weren't, are bound to be higher.

It just doesn't add up. In more ways than one.

Precisely, deaths are completely overstated and when it's put to those who record those figures they have acknowledged that deaths are overstated.

Fair enough points, but the NHS situation is not being overstated. I even see this morning they are starting to ration oxygen supplies in a hospital in Southend

[sid waddell]

Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

Have you a reputable link for this?

[sid waddell]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

[imtommygunn]

Covid lasts 2 weeks.

Not for everyone it doesn't.

I think they have changed how they report deaths in scenarios like an accident or something else like that. I have read that before. I don't think this is as bad as some people are making it out to be.

[sid waddell]

Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

I'd say with all the normal deaths in winter (with flu, chest infections, etc), those put down as covid deaths, when they weren't, are bound to be higher.

It just doesn't add up. In more ways than one.

Precisely, deaths are completely overstated and when it's put to those who record those figures they have acknowledged that deaths are overstated.

How could be they be completely overstated when anything after 28 days is not counted as Covid death?

Yet people continue to die after the 28 day cut off

[BennyCake]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Yes, good point.

But non-vulnerables will get the vaccine. And theres a simple reason why - covid passport.

Yet there is probably no real upside.

I'm in no rush to travel abroad when this finishes. I'd be very wary of this vaccine at present and I wouldn't risk my health for the sake of a holiday until we know more about it.

I don't usually go abroad on holiday anyway so I don't care about that.

But if that was the only restriction imposed from not having the vaccine, I could live with that. But it won't be. They'll ensure that you need a vaccine to enter schools, workplaces, concerts, hospitals, doctor surgeries, sports events etc.

I honestly think this isn't about the virus anymore. There is much more going on here.

[imtommygunn]

Such as?

[trailer]

They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

And of course there are absolutely no ramifications on the restrictions you propose, nevermind the current ones in action?

Have we had any cases attributed to takeaways yet?

There'll be loads of ramifications. Only a nutter would say there wouldn't be. But believe me if the health service becomes overwhelmed all those financial and mental problems will pale into insignificance. It's not exactly about cases around takeaways it's about getting through to people that they need to stay at home. It's like closing golf courses. It probably has a 0.00000001 effect on the R number but they need to get people to stay at home.
Personally, I think the NHS in NI won't cope and we're headed for an Italian style meltdown. Like I said earlier, we can argue about why that is later. For now I would encourage you to cut your interactions to the absolute bare minimum. These next two weeks will be crucial but if the number keep presenting to hospital and Nurses and other health staff are sick or isolating then it doesn't take a genius to see what will happen.

[imtommygunn]

Personally, I think the NHS in NI won't cope and we're headed for an Italian style meltdown.

I think that could very well happen before the end of January at current rate.

[sid waddell]

Covid lasts 2 weeks.

Not for everyone it doesn't.

I think they have changed how they report deaths in scenarios like an accident or something else like that. I have read that before. I don't think this is as bad as some people are making it out to be.

Right back at the start of this, Marc Lipsitch of Harvard said that deaths on a particular death are a reflection of the case figures from 20/21 days previous - around three weeks basically

So if we have, say 6k cases on January 5th, we don't see the real knock on effects of that figure in terms of deaths until around January 25th/26th - although for many individuals, death will occur in either a considerably shorter or longer time frame

[BennyCake]

Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

Have you a reputable link for this?

I've heard that from numerous sources. RTÉ, and BBC. It was even confirmed on Nolan show as correct.