China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

[Angelo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55616631

74,000 in the North vaccinated (first doses, 9k have both doses).

Serious work. Let's hope that start to reflect in numbers going forward over the next 4 to 6 weeks.

Oh, seen the Queen got vaccinated over the weekend too. Good for her, was really worried for awhile.

We'll have a good idea where we stand at the end of February and whether the vaccination drive has had a positive impact on hospitalisations and deaths - though its worth taking noting how these figures are manipulated to overstate the impact of Covid. I'd like to know how much of the virus is spread in hospitals rather than actual admitted cases.

[GetOverTheBar]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

[trailer]

People not taking personal responsibility. Cutting their interactions. I know at least 4 families who've been struck down. Adult children and elderly parents and there is no doubt they were interacting over Christmas outside of the restrictions.

Unfair comment.

Sure if that's the case, if you get Covid. It's your own fault for not locking yourself in the attic. You don't deserve any help for breaking the rules?

I am not suggesting that people shouldn't get treatment. What I am saying is that there has been a significant flouting of the rules. Now we can argue to the cows come on home on why that is the case. People need to take responsibility. They need to cut their interactions and stay at home only for essential purposes.
If the number don't fall significantly and pressures on the health service don't ease then tighter restrictions are inevitable.

[GetOverTheBar]

They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

[Milltown Row2]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

You see we don't know, as you have very well said so many times, we don't know, So your strategy should be keep to your own demograph until we know, as this has been rushed out and not proven, most vaccines in the past have taken up to ten year to be shown to be ok, even then there has been complications. So best you wait till you're either sick and fall into the underlying conditions or 70 plus...

Use a lanyard also, just to let others know the demograph you fall into

[Angelo]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

[sid waddell]

The Irish Times have run a bizarre pro-Varadkar propaganda piece this morning based on emails from eejits in the public who wrote in to praise Varadkar's disastrous appearance on the Claire Byrne Live programme last October

This was the one where Varadkar rubbished NPHET and Tony Holohan over their advice to move to Level 5 - it was the most disastrous interview by an Irish politician since Brian Lenihan's "mature recollection"

The IT article this morning reads like something from Murdoch media - it's like a written version of Fox News

FG towers are clearly desperate, they know that when deaths start hitting 100 a day very soon, the public are going to recoil and look for somebody to blame

And the public will look for those in power who were flippant about the situation, or rejected public health advice - Varadkar did both

Hence the desperate effort to portray him as "a man of the people"

"He was only doing what the people wanted, guv"

But he wasn't - he was making a play for the sort of eejits who if they were in America would be Trumpists - and he was playing with people's lives to do so

[Angelo]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

You see we don't know, as you have very well said so many times, we don't know, So your strategy should be keep to your own demograph until we know, as this has been rushed out and not proven, most vaccines in the past have taken up to ten year to be shown to be ok, even then there has been complications. So best you wait till you're either sick and fall into the underlying conditions or 70 plus...

Use a lanyard also, just to let others know the demograph you fall into

Didn't say that was my strategy at all. You seem to have created that statement and attributed it to me without any foundation.

[GetOverTheBar]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

[sid waddell]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

[Milltown Row2]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

You see we don't know, as you have very well said so many times, we don't know, So your strategy should be keep to your own demograph until we know, as this has been rushed out and not proven, most vaccines in the past have taken up to ten year to be shown to be ok, even then there has been complications. So best you wait till you're either sick and fall into the underlying conditions or 70 plus...

Use a lanyard also, just to let others know the demograph you fall into

Didn't say that was my strategy at all. You seem to have created that statement and attributed it to me without any foundation.

It clearly is, if you are not going to take the the vaccine and by your own words the vaccine might not cover catching the virus, then one would assume you will stay away from the vulnerable, stay within your own demograph and carry on regardless, thankfully you'll not be putting yourself or family in a position that they will catch it, as you'll be following the guidelines. Which is good

[APM]

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention. 

[Hound]

The Irish Times have run a bizarre pro-Varadkar propaganda piece this morning based on emails from eejits in the public who wrote in to praise Varadkar's disastrous appearance on the Claire Byrne Live programme last October

This was the one where Varadkar rubbished NPHET and Tony Holohan over their advice to move to Level 5 - it was the most disastrous interview by an Irish politician since Brian Lenihan's "mature recollection"

The IT article this morning reads like something from Murdoch media - it's like a written version of Fox News

FG towers are clearly desperate, they know that when deaths start hitting 100 a day very soon, the public are going to recoil and look for somebody to blame

And the public will look for those in power who were flippant about the situation, or rejected public health advice - Varadkar did both

Hence the desperate effort to portray him as "a man of the people"

"He was only doing what the people wanted, guv"

But he wasn't - he was making a play for the sort of eejits who if they were in America would be Trumpists - and he was playing with people's lives to do so

A load of hyperbolic nonsense in there Sid.

Varadkar wasn't annoyed with the message, it was more that it was released to the press before it was provided to Cabinet. The objective to put pressure on Cabinet.
Turns out it was right to go to Level 5, but we went to Level 5 anyway within a very short time and up to Christmas we were 'performing' best in Europe, behind only Iceland.

The real problem is the opening up for Christmas combined with new variants. There is definitely a strong argument that we should have remained in lockdown for Christmas, but with spirits up due to vaccine announcements, there was clear public preference to ease restrictions and no political party called for a Christmas lockdown.

So overall it's clear that in terms of timing of going into and coming out of lockdown, our politicians have been about the best in Europe (acknowledging that most of those decisions had support from opposition parties), but still probably only 6.5/10 or thereabouts if I was giving a mark. But there's absolutely nothing to suggest any other party would have handled it with any substantive difference.

Rollout of the vaccine is now key. We seem to be doing no better than mediocre at the moment in that regard albeit there are of course supply constraints to deal with.

[Milltown Row2]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

There are multiple reasons on death certs, I haven't seen a Covid death cert personally and hopefully never will, but I've seen one that had two reasons for the death.. Some deaths are more complicated, cancers can be terminal and there may be a life span of ten years with it, but you could catch covid which has a reaction to the immune system and results in an earlier death than expected.

That person may have had a terminal illness and a contributing factor, but the catching of the covid sped up this persons death.