China Coronavirus

[armaghniac]

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

Happy Christmas to you too.
There were individuals in Sweden trying to score political points about how great they are. Why not swear at them?

[BennyCake]

That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.

But people have to take person responsibility also - this, the attitude of Stormont's a mess, therefore I can do what I like is a cop out.

People, who are adults, must front up and own it.  This carry- on of blaming everybody else doesn't wash with me.   

A very basic example, the amount of people I see in shops etc. without a mask is unreal - again the sense of entitlement is unreal. Why do I have to wear a mask, I couldn't care less type of attitude.

We can blame everybody else but the elephant in the room.

As I stated before, SF made a bad decision about the funeral earlier in the year and rightly got called out for it.  It was wrong and turned into a PR disaster for them. The main problem for me is the DUP,  mainly, in terms of Stormont.  I don't buy in to the usual "two sides as bad as each other".

There are 5 parties in there, it's been 4 V 1 in terms of supporting the health and medical people and following their advice but it's clearly the DUP who are not onside with it, for whatever reason.  Again, the UUP were 'siding' with London's plan earlier on but, as the year have went on, they've clearly wanting to follow the advice of the health professionals.  Why? For me, I believe that as this year has developed, in regards to planning, England, Scotland, Wales and the 6 counties have went 'their own way' as it's clearly not a one size fits all solution.

Regardless, let's nail this myth that Stormont is the problem in this case.  It has its problems but when it 4 V 1 up there, the problem lies with one party.

As stated, people have to take personal responsibility.

1,000,000% correct.

[BennyCake]

The UK is seemingly a mess (we read their papers, so it's easier to keep an eye on), the Republic is  on the rise, Germany in full lockdown, and Italy and Spain banning people from going anywhere.

Maybe sometime soon it will dawn on the anti-Stormont, anti-DUP, anti-Shinner brigade that the whole of Europe is a giant mess of hapless governments running scared, implementing measures that don't work, burying things they don't want people to know, and worst of all, copying each others' stupid "strategies" before seeing if they work.

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

——

As long as schools are open, and airports are open, then this isn't going away. f**k all your other government policies. If schools are open every other policy is just a giant game of pass the f**king parcel.

With this rudderless, pointless facade running riot, all I can say is thank  f**k most of us bat off Covid without blinking.

That's about the height of it.

[whitegoodman]

Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

[Main Street]

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

Happy Christmas to you too.
There were individuals in Sweden trying to score political points about how great they are. Why not swear at them?

According to the stats, Sweden has  low to middling numbers in hospital and  are among the bottom rung  in the death ratio in this 2nd wave.
It all goes to show that the state fcked up in the beginning with protecting the elderly. Like there was in ireland, a disconnect between the HSE and the threat to nursing homes.
It's not about rules  when people are willing to follow advice  and take responsibility. When people are prone to act the bollix like in Ireland then there is a need for sterner action.

[6th sam]

The UK is seemingly a mess (we read their papers, so it's easier to keep an eye on), the Republic is  on the rise, Germany in full lockdown, and Italy and Spain banning people from going anywhere.

Maybe sometime soon it will dawn on the anti-Stormont, anti-DUP, anti-Shinner brigade that the whole of Europe is a giant mess of hapless governments running scared, implementing measures that don't work, burying things they don't want people to know, and worst of all, copying each others' stupid "strategies" before seeing if they work.

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

——

As long as schools are open, and airports are open, then this isn't going away. f**k all your other government policies. If schools are open every other policy is just a giant game of pass the f**king parcel.

With this rudderless, pointless facade running riot, all I can say is thank  f**k most of us bat off Covid without blinking.

Not everything about this pandemic is clear-cut, and opinions can change as evidence develops . I accept it's not easy for governments, what I don't accept is that there is a four fold difference in rates in the two jurisdictions on the same island. DUP forced a decision to ignore scientific advice ,and reject an all island approach,  for political reasons . As a result we have 19 ambulances queued outside one of our hospitals . If that makes me anti-DUP then I'll take that as a compliment. We still are living n a jurisdiction dominated by dinosaurs that put political prejudice before scientific evidence . Unbelievable

[Rossfan]

Spot on Sam.

[armaghniac]

Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

[thewobbler]

Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

And not so long ago Germany was fully open again before any other Western European country. And the same people who at that time talked up how the stoic, selfless Teutonic personality traits were central to this "success" (especially when compared to self-centred, sub-IQ, jingoistic clowns of England), are now doing the same with the Republic's recent improvement vs the north.

Will they remember these things in 5-6 weeks when the numbers change, or reverse? No. No they f**king won't. Because anyone who is in any way inclined to celebrate an isolated set of numbers in the middle of a pandemic is, to put it as plainly as I can, a complete f**king halfwit.

[sid waddell]

The UK is seemingly a mess (we read their papers, so it's easier to keep an eye on), the Republic is  on the rise, Germany in full lockdown, and Italy and Spain banning people from going anywhere.

Maybe sometime soon it will dawn on the anti-Stormont, anti-DUP, anti-Shinner brigade that the whole of Europe is a giant mess of hapless governments running scared, implementing measures that don't work, burying things they don't want people to know, and worst of all, copying each others' stupid "strategies" before seeing if they work.

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

——

As long as schools are open, and airports are open, then this isn't going away. f**k all your other government policies. If schools are open every other policy is just a giant game of pass the f**king parcel.

With this rudderless, pointless facade running riot, all I can say is thank  f**k most of us bat off Covid without blinking.

Not everything about this pandemic is clear-cut, and opinions can change as evidence develops . I accept it's not easy for governments, what I don't accept is that there is a four fold difference in rates in the two jurisdictions on the same island. DUP forced a decision to ignore scientific advice ,and reject an all island approach,  for political reasons . As a result we have 19 ambulances queued outside one of our hospitals . If that makes me anti-DUP then I'll take that as a compliment. We still are living n a jurisdiction dominated by dinosaurs that put political prejudice before scientific evidence . Unbelievable

Nationalism is the problem

British nationalism has evolved into a crazy world of delusion where facts don't matter and and matters of science are turned into right-wing culture war hobby horses, driven by a rabid right-wing media who preach self consciously bad faith canards like "individual liberty" and "free speech" and vacuous idiocy like "we trust people to make the best decisions for themselves"

In a scenario where a collective solution is required for a collective problem, this is poison

The DUP are a nationalist party

For nationalist parties, loyalty to an imagined idea of an indivisible nation forged in blood and soil is usually paramount

Yet, through the influence of right-wing media and the cancer of libertarian ideology, this ultra-British nationalism, like white American "nationalism", has mutated into a bastard form where social solidarity is despised

It is a nationalism which is loyal only to atomisation, and to oligarch money

It is driven by a tribal culture war in which one tribe rejects any sort of social solidarity even within that tribe - the tribe of atoms

In its own way, it is an anti-nationalist nationalism

It is a plutocratic nationalism, a form of serfdom, and in the DUP's case it is voluntary serfdom

The DUP's idea of nation is not ordinary British people, it is the ultra-Brexit movement as driven by the corrupt far right of the Tory party, Russian oligarchs, Murdoch media and far right American think tanks

It is a pound shop knock off idea of Empire, of the feeling of being part of Empire, a demonstration of unrequited loyalty by the Empire's equivalent of trailer trash which goes unheard and unseen by the billionaires who it is meant as a homage to

The DUP are willing to harm their own atomised people as long as they can harm themmuns too

But nobody in London or elsewhere, nobody who this "gesture" is aimed at, will notice

Because to those people, the DUP are nothing more than shit on their expensive shoes

[armaghniac]

Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

And not so long ago Germany was fully open again before any other Western European country. And the same people who at that time talked up how the stoic, selfless Teutonic personality traits were central to this "success" (especially when compared to self-centred, sub-IQ, jingoistic clowns of England), are now doing the same with the Republic's recent improvement vs the north.

Will they remember these things in 5-6 weeks when the numbers change, or reverse? No. No they f**king won't. Because anyone who is in any way inclined to celebrate an isolated set of numbers in the middle of a pandemic is, to put it as plainly as I can, a complete f**king halfwit.

The ROI has no monopoly on wisdom in this regard, nor different personality traits. However, I do not see why you have to be characterised as a complete f**king halfwit if you recognise that they looked at the calendar and tuned things to some extent to allow relaxed restrictions at Christmas and that this was good thing. And it is because I do not believe that people have notably different personality traits that I think that the decline of numbers there with schools open shows that a decline in the 6 counties is possible with the same policies.

[JimStynes]

And if the south closed the schools sure the virus might have been away altogether now.

[whitegoodman]

Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

And not so long ago Germany was fully open again before any other Western European country. And the same people who at that time talked up how the stoic, selfless Teutonic personality traits were central to this "success" (especially when compared to self-centred, sub-IQ, jingoistic clowns of England), are now doing the same with the Republic's recent improvement vs the north.

Will they remember these things in 5-6 weeks when the numbers change, or reverse? No. No they f**king won't. Because anyone who is in any way inclined to celebrate an isolated set of numbers in the middle of a pandemic is, to put it as plainly as I can, a complete f**king halfwit.

I don't really understand a lot of that so I will put it simply.  ROI went into lockdown to get numbers down to a workable level.  This worked with schools open.  It's as simple as that, no ifs buts maybes or f**kwits about it.

Therefore IMO it's more down  to people's behaviour rather than schools being open or not. Whether that is down to a lack of political leadership or people just not caring anymore or a mixture of both is up for debate.

[imtommygunn]

Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

Armaghniac the person who has been most partitionist in this thread is you.

[tbrick18]

That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.

But people have to take person responsibility also - this, the attitude of Stormont's a mess, therefore I can do what I like is a cop out.

People, who are adults, must front up and own it.  This carry- on of blaming everybody else doesn't wash with me.   

A very basic example, the amount of people I see in shops etc. without a mask is unreal - again the sense of entitlement is unreal. Why do I have to wear a mask, I couldn't care less type of attitude.

We can blame everybody else but the elephant in the room.

As I stated before, SF made a bad decision about the funeral earlier in the year and rightly got called out for it.  It was wrong and turned into a PR disaster for them. The main problem for me is the DUP,  mainly, in terms of Stormont.  I don't buy in to the usual "two sides as bad as each other".

There are 5 parties in there, it's been 4 V 1 in terms of supporting the health and medical people and following their advice but it's clearly the DUP who are not onside with it, for whatever reason.  Again, the UUP were 'siding' with London's plan earlier on but, as the year have went on, they've clearly wanting to follow the advice of the health professionals.  Why? For me, I believe that as this year has developed, in regards to planning, England, Scotland, Wales and the 6 counties have went 'their own way' as it's clearly not a one size fits all solution.

Regardless, let's nail this myth that Stormont is the problem in this case.  It has its problems but when it 4 V 1 up there, the problem lies with one party.

As stated, people have to take personal responsibility.

Spot on that.
There are still loads who don't wear masks and don't use the sanitiser in shops.
Or who do wear a mask but don't cover their nose.
Too many people not following guidelines. Visiting too many other households etc.
Dup absolutely have been a major problem holding everyone to ransom with their veto for whatever agenda. I think they just like welding power
Sending schools back with everything else locked down is a disgrace.
So it's ok for kids to mix 30 at a time in school, but not in their own back yard or a park? Covid knows to leave the kids at school alone? Nonsense and it stinks of dup doing their own thing again. 
I've had to get tested this week, thankfully negative. But at the testing site, the tester said the majority of people coming in to be tested are working in schools.
Anecdotal maybe, but doesn't surprise me.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school with 200 kids. So far 4 teachers and numerous other staff have had positive tests. They have caught out quite a few families sending kids to school when other siblings are positive. That's what we're up against.
Schools should be the first thing shut imo. See how we go with everything else opened after that.