China Coronavirus

[GetOverTheBar]

For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

Yeah look you keep posting this. If you would read what people post the questions they tend to ask is why Covid takes precedence over other illnesses.

[imtommygunn]

I know Covid puts people at risk but lockdowns and excessive restrictions carry bigger problems

Another assertive claim with absolutely no basis or foundation. How could you possibly know that? This is the problem with people like you propagating fear with misinformation.

[Angelo]

For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

More importantly, for the thickos here:

More lockdowns and excessive measures = more people losing their jobs and livelihoods, more economic damage, more mental health problems, more suicides, more cases of domestic violence and sexual abuse for vulnerable people, more people with physical and mental disabilities being deprived of proper care and support, more cases of addicts relapsing due to lack of support services and long term societal impacts of these issues and many more.

[Angelo]

I know Covid puts people at risk but lockdowns and excessive restrictions carry bigger problems

Another assertive claim with absolutely no basis or foundation. How could you possibly know that? This is the problem with people like you propagating fear with misinformation.

That's my opinion, I have stated such in the past.

Why are you so dismissive to domestic violence victims and people with mental health problems, people who have lost their jobs and their livelihoods?

[johnnycool]

Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.

[Angelo]

For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

Yeah look you keep posting this. If you would read what people post the questions they tend to ask is why Covid takes precedence over other illnesses.

Rossfan only knows how to engage in idiotic hysteria.

He was saying that people wanted us to return to Feb 2020 when nobody here suggested that at all. He's someone without the intelligence to offer constructive debate.

[Milltown Row2]

I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Oh we only do questions.  Where did I say all deaths? Do you think people who need medical care are being abandoned because of the prioritisation of covid? I mentioned before I personally know a doctor who was sent to a covid ward every Thursday and done nothing. Who looked after her appointments that day?  You think a doctor in a pandemic doing nothing whilst at work is a good use of resources?  You think in anyway the public is being failed by the NHS, and yes we know your da is getting treatment and you and your daughter are ok with getting appointments.

I don't believe someone that needs urgent medical care is being left out.. If I was in a car accident I'd say the doctors in A&E won't leave me in the street, if I hurt my back or some other non life threating issue I'll be seen in A&E it'll just take longer and that's fine.

Doctor surgeries are still open, you phone them they phone you back and triage you there and if necessary bring you in or recommend a&e .. Millions of people are being seen by GP's

[imtommygunn]

It was as assertive a claim as anything Armaghniac said.

When have I been dismissive? When has anyone been? You're just putting words in peoples mouths.

What's the point in that argument? It's just to shoot down a counter argument and put someone on the back foot. It doesn't hold up.

I can just turn round and say why are you are dismissive of people who won't be able to get any treatment because there are no hospital beds left. There's no point in me doing that.

The damage of lockdown due to abusive relationships, mental health issues etc etc is about as quantifiable as the benefit of lockdown to alleviating the burden of the health service.

The main thing to be said for the latter is that brains much bigger than mine and probably most if not anyone contributing here have come up with lockdown so there must be something in it. They have to have considered the implications. Why wouldn't they have?

Seaney do you have a link to the 26 million stat from NHS digital? GP appointments in England are at the 20+ million per month. Not sure where the stats for here are.

[Taylor]

Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

[Smokin Joe]

I know someone who had it during March and they had a good level of antibodies built up and were donating blood.
Recently they were told that the antibodies are negligent now; that is after 6 months.
So that person can (presumably) get reinfected again.

It's a real ba$tard of a disease. Not sure how herd immunity could ever be built up if the antibodies disappear. Seems like until we have a vaccine we could maybe have 3 months of relative freedom followed by 1 month of lockdown, with this cycle ongoing.

[HiMucker]

For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

Yeah look you keep posting this. If you would read what people post the questions they tend to ask is why Covid takes precedence over other illnesses.

Yeah and it has been answered a thousand times. Triage process. There is a no getting away from the fact that it is swamping the hospitals. It is a shite position to be in, but we are where we are. Whats the alternative, leave people dying on trollies with covid while you divert resources to a back log of patients with other serious but less immediate ailments?

[Angelo]

It was as assertive a claim as anything Armaghniac said.

When have I been dismissive? When has anyone been? You're just putting words in peoples mouths.

What's the point in that argument? It's just to shoot down a counter argument and put someone on the back foot. It doesn't hold up.

I can just turn round and say why are you are dismissive of people who won't be able to get any treatment because there are no hospital beds left. There's no point in me doing that.

The damage of lockdown due to abusive relationships, mental health issues etc etc is about as quantifiable as the benefit of lockdown to alleviating the burden of the health service.

The main thing to be said for the latter is that brains much bigger than mine and probably most if not anyone contributing here have come up with lockdown so there must be something in it. They have to have considered the implications. Why wouldn't they have?

Seaney do you have a link to the 26 million stat from NHS digital? GP appointments in England are at the 20+ million per month. Not sure where the stats for here are.

No it was an opinion.

What armaghniac did was dismissed something out of sight that he could not possibly know the answer to.

I've given my opinion. We know that Covid deaths have been greatly overstated, we know this for an absolute fact. We know from the data that an overwhelming minority of the people who have been classified as dying from Covid are elderly and have underlying health conditions, we know that the average age of Covid death exceeds average life expectancy in both the UK and Ireland. This is what the data has told us.

So at what point do we begin to focus on economic damage, the rise in domestic violence, suicide rates, mental health problems, addiction relapses and all the other negative trends that have been shown to happen during lockdowns and excessive restrictions?

Or is it simply a case that victims of lockdowns and the vulnerable people impacted from it do not deserve to have their plight highlighted, that these people are somewhat lesser than those at risk of Covid? Why are people like you so intent on dismissing their plight as lesser?

[Angelo]

Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.

For clarity, you mentioned herd immunity, not me.

Herd immunity is what it says it is.

The point I made, if you bothered to read it is that the incidence rate in Derry Strabane was only going to go one way when it was over 1k per 100k population in a 7/14 day incidence rate. If it continued at that rate for 2-3 months there would be nobody left to infect so of course that rate was going to drop. That is hardly surprising.

[imtommygunn]

Why have you come back with the same argument again when I nor anyone else have dismissed people in these vulnerable sectors?

Also do you have stats to back this up at all? Real ones? I wouldn't imagine there are any.

There are two evils here. Which is the lesser? You would assume that the powers that be have considered the weighing up of pros and cons to this?

There is no understanding of when we will get a handle on this at all. That coupled with the already under resourced NHS is why there has been such a reaction to impose what a number of people would deem draconian measures. There needs to be something done. Is this absolutely right - perhaps not but at the minute it is a case of needs must.

Everyone knows the deaths have been overstated. You came back with an article to say they were ~1200 as opposed to ~1800 and it was ~33% excess deaths. I am not going to accuse you of discounting 1200 deaths despite the fact you keep accusing me of discounting vulnerable sectors with absolutely no basis for it but 1200 deaths and growing would kind of be a priority over economy I'd have thought.

I still, still, don't know what you are proposing? Let it rip? Lesser lockdowns? By all means lesser lockdowns IMO need to be considered or more targeted ones. To let it rip would just be ludicrous.

[johnnycool]

Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.

For clarity, you mentioned herd immunity, not me.

Herd immunity is what it says it is.

The point I made, if you bothered to read it is that the incidence rate in Derry Strabane was only going to go one way when it was over 1k per 100k population in a 7/14 day incidence rate. If it continued at that rate for 2-3 months there would be nobody left to infect so of course that rate was going to drop. That is hardly surprising.

No, you mentioned it first as I had highlighted.

It is what it is!!!   

Please read this;

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510