China Coronavirus

[armaghniac]

The testing is inaccurate,  thats why numbers are going up.
The deaths are falling,  amd most of them are probably connected to other causes
Simple really.

All testing is somewhat inaccurate, that does not mean that it is not useful. This "inaccurate testing" is a nonsense justification for people who want to justify irresponsible behaviour. 

I keep reading about inaccurate testing. It does tend to come from "covid deniers" however I suspect there is something somewhere in there about accuracies(false positives and other things like flu/ cold being positives are things I tend to see). I wouldn't expect it to lead to massive numbers mind you. More people tested will lead to more positives. I would still think more people than know about this thing have had it and probably a good few more at that.(Nothing to back that up but 2 feelings I have is that and it has been floating round for way longer than we think.)

There is more testing and this is identifying some less serious cases. But we've always known that this was the case. The purpose of testing is not so much to declare you a serious case as to identify that you might infect others and to stay at home.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

[five points]

Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

Henrik likes to distill hard liquor in his garage or garden shed and over the course of his lifetime stands a higher chance than Paddy of being hospitalised with alcohol poisoning.

Faraway hills.

[GetOverTheBar]

Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

You have never been to Sweden, so.

[RadioGAAGAA]

You have never been to Sweden, so.

With the price of beer in Sweden, Henrik can't hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Which, as far as COVID goes - is the pertinent point.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Henrik likes to distill hard liquor in his garage or garden shed and over the course of his lifetime stands a higher chance than Paddy of being hospitalised with alcohol poisoning.

Faraway hills.

So when he's distilling it in the garage and drinking it in the house - is he spreading COVID to:

(a) the far wall of the garage
(b) the sofa
(c) other people

Answers on a postcard please.

[imtommygunn]

There's an article on I think it's called the national enquirer on how they think lockdowns are bullshit and the virus is seasonal so it's the seasons changing that are the reason for the upsurge.

(N.B. I don't believe that at all but it is always interesting to see what those with opposing views think).

(Also I suspect seasons have some bearing.)

[Milltown Row2]

Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

You have never been to Sweden, so.

In fairness I defo see a difference between the two cultures and but given the chance to do it right, the next time, would our population choose the method we did? or try something else?

I went to bed before it finished, recorded it so will watch it later.. but the one thing the Irish resident said that if the bars or cafes were not following the guidelines then they would be shut the bar/cafe, we need that sort of approach also

[thewobbler]

Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

That's some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

I've never been in Sweden but I did work in a bar in Spain where the Scandinavians routinely made absolute drunken messes of themselves for the duration of their holidays. I would have assumed that this was an increase on their usual lifestyles, and not down to some miraculous personality change once in possession of pesetas.

[RadioGAAGAA]

There's an article on I think it's called the national enquirer on how they think lockdowns are bullshit and the virus is seasonal so it's the seasons changing that are the reason for the upsurge.

(N.B. I don't believe that at all but it is always interesting to see what those with opposing views think).

(Also I suspect seasons have some bearing.)

Yeah, well, lets remember that:
1) It was spiking in a period of great weather when the lockdown happened.
2) Other countries have far higher temperatures than us and seen spikes (i.e. Australia)
3) Behaviours change over the seasons - that is likely the biggest thing. More people are socialising indoors now.

Typically virus do not do well in the heat, yet 1 & 2 are contradictory to that.

Now we've a situation where both the virus is likely more persistent (colder weather) and people's behaviours (indoors more) are making them more likely to enable spread. Its a bad mix.

[RadioGAAGAA]

That's some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

Where did I say they aren't social? They aren't unsociable, they just do it different and that doesn't involve weekly beer sessions.

A load of statistics on their population density, their average household occupancy, the alcohol consumption per capita. Wee things like that point to the differences.


Being sociable outdoors sans alcohol is a much lower risk than having a dozen pints in the pub with different groups of mates every weekend.

[five points]

Henrik likes to distill hard liquor in his garage or garden shed and over the course of his lifetime stands a higher chance than Paddy of being hospitalised with alcohol poisoning.

Faraway hills.

So when he's distilling it in the garage and drinking it in the house - is he spreading COVID to:

(a) the far wall of the garage
(b) the sofa
(c) other people

Answers on a postcard please.

No, he ducks Covid but ends up with a far more dangerous health issue.

[GetOverTheBar]

Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

You have never been to Sweden, so.

In fairness I defo see a difference between the two cultures and but given the chance to do it right, the next time, would our population choose the method we did? or try something else?

I went to bed before it finished, recorded it so will watch it later.. but the one thing the Irish resident said that if the bars or cafes were not following the guidelines then they would be shut the bar/cafe, we need that sort of approach also

You would certainly hope so, There would be rule breakers...and of course it would be portrayed as if it was 95% of the population behaving badly and not vice versa. Swift punishments might sort that out, actual punishments....not closed for the night, try again tomorrow night stuff. What better way to punish those who break the rules than let their competitors that adhere to rules, stay open?

Alchohol/Bars/Nightclubs.....this whole area has really been beaten and kicked by the outbreak of Covid. It's actually sad to see an industry get what appears to be the complete blame for the spread of this virus. It's a factor, it's not thee factor. We closed them down for months upon months lets not forget. Let these people get back to work and try and earn a living, I personally feel it's disgusting how they are basically blamed for the whole thing.

With regards to the Swedes....I can assure you they take just as much alcohol as the Irish, they just don't feel the need to kick the shite out of each other after it. I lived there for long enough to have first hand experience.

[macdanger2]

I keep reading about inaccurate testing. It does tend to come from "covid deniers" however I suspect there is something somewhere in there about accuracies(false positives and other things like flu/ cold being positives are things I tend to see). I wouldn't expect it to lead to massive numbers mind you. More people tested will lead to more positives. I would still think more people than know about this thing have had it and probably a good few more at that.(Nothing to back that up but 2 feelings I have is that and it has been floating round for way longer than we think.)

The term "inaccurate testing" is a fairly broad one tbf. My understanding (open to correction on this) of the testing method currently used here (PCR) is that it goes through X amount of cycles and each one essentially "magnifies" what the test can detect. At the end of the test, you receive a yes/no result as to whether virus particles have been detected. Possible areas for inaccuracies are:

1. How specific the particles its detecting are to this coronavirus. The more specific it is, the better the accuracy. I don't know the details of what protein (?) the test is searching for

2. It doesn't return a quantifiable result so you can't tell how much virus had been detected. The problem here is that you can't tell if a person is just beginning or just finished having the virus; if the measure was quantifiable, two tests would tell you whether the load was increasing or decreasing. Also, you might get a measure of whether a person is infectious or not (limits would need to be defined first)

3. Difficulty in swabbing / completing the test. These are more likely to slow down testing and / or result in false negatives than false positives

So while the current testing has problems associated with it, it's not simple to just develop and validate a new testing method to overcome these problems without creating others.

[Mario]

That’s some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

Where did I say they aren't social? They aren't unsociable, they just do it different and that doesn't involve weekly beer sessions.

A load of statistics on their population density, their average household occupancy, the alcohol consumption per capita. Wee things like that point to the differences.


Being sociable outdoors sans alcohol is a much lower risk than having a dozen pints in the pub with different groups of mates every weekend.

I often hear this argument against the Swedish model. Is there evidence to suggest Swedish people suffer lower rates of flu or colds than Ireland or other countries given all the points above?

I think as this plays out it will be clear the Swedish got it right. Regardless of whether Lockdowns work or not they aren't a viable solution.