China Coronavirus

[trailer]

Our own local government not beyond fault either. 3 years of no gov has left NHS locally vastly under prepared, coupled with lack of Nursing staff due to poor pay and conditions (Poots and O'Neill oversaw those cuts). Followed up by complete incompetence, blindly following Britain and McBride the CMO here. Lack of testing. Lack of leadership.
But as is the NI way we will reward and promote this incompetence then moan about the DUP or SF rather than taking responsibility and changing our vote.

I assume you very much supported Michelle O'Neill and other Sinn Féin minisiters when they questioned and disagreed with the blind following of the Tory government and "medical science" at the very beginning of this process?

I agree with what she said re closing schools and the SF position on herd immunity. I very much disagree with the way she did it. She made it into a political issue Nats v Unionist, when it should clearly have been a science issue. Remember on the Thursday evening she supported keeping schools open... on the Friday morning she wanted them closed. Not the leadership, but suppose she got their in the end.

[Maroon Manc]

Are the schools open in Sweden?

Yes, work with a few people over there. Pretty much everything is normal but they are given the social distancing education, over 70s are encouraged to keep themselves inside.

Bars / Restaurants open with restricted numbers, that kind of thing.

I remember reading about 3 weeks ago that the pubs and restaurants were really struggling though with little or no customers. I wonder has that changed?

[Smurfy123]

The thing that annoys me about out political leaders is they stand in front of the tv cameras giving off that we need to stay at home and then post up 2 different photo opportunities of them standing outside a hospital. Now the photographer has taken 2 or 3 photos of them standing in different places as it shows that. Now hardly social distancing being applied. I know it's maybe nothing but it really is hypocrisy at the highest level. Do the job that you are meant to and that's not standing for photos outside a hospital.
Any thoughts on WHO saying Sweden have done a great job?
Also this week care homes are now up to 60%
Care homes 60%
Hospitals 40%

Agree with Wobbler care homes is a place for the elderly to enjoy and be comfortable in the final years that they have left and an enquiry into that is pointless. It was always going to hit them hard everyone could see that with the exception of our government who were to busy worrying about schools

[johnnycool]

Our own local government not beyond fault either. 3 years of no gov has left NHS locally vastly under prepared, coupled with lack of Nursing staff due to poor pay and conditions (Poots and O'Neill oversaw those cuts). Followed up by complete incompetence, blindly following Britain and McBride the CMO here. Lack of testing. Lack of leadership.
But as is the NI way we will reward and promote this incompetence then moan about the DUP or SF rather than taking responsibility and changing our vote.

I assume you very much supported Michelle O'Neill and other Sinn Féin minisiters when they questioned and disagreed with the blind following of the Tory government and "medical science" at the very beginning of this process?

I agree with what she said re closing schools and the SF position on herd immunity. I very much disagree with the way she did it. She made it into a political issue Nats v Unionist, when it should clearly have been a science issue. Remember on the Thursday evening she supported keeping schools open... on the Friday morning she wanted them closed. Not the leadership, but suppose she got their in the end.

There was much made of that and the lack of unity in the executive in the local media but with Poots and Givan going on solo runs on opening Garden centres and churches less so. Strange that!

[Saffrongael]

Interesting article on death rates comparisons and "league tables"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/30/coronavirus-deaths-how-does-britain-compare-with-other-countries

[GetOverTheBar]

Are the schools open in Sweden?

Yes, work with a few people over there. Pretty much everything is normal but they are given the social distancing education, over 70s are encouraged to keep themselves inside.

Bars / Restaurants open with restricted numbers, that kind of thing.

I remember reading about 3 weeks ago that the pubs and restaurants were really struggling though with little or no customers. I wonder has that changed?

Can only go on primary source on Stockholm

From what I'm told people are still out and about as much, albeit obviously keeping distance etc. Gyms seem to be well down with people doing what they are doing here, running / walking.

Bars and restaurants are busy, but only at weekends and people tend to use it as a way of keeping some kind of normality rather than staying for extended periods of time.

[thewobbler]

Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

Solicitors up and down the country will beg to differ on that point

Until there is conclusive evidence to suggest that the actions of care homes contributed to a shortened lifespan for its residents, then a solicitor would have to treat these cases as no different to the death of an elderly person in a care home, prior to Covid.

Sue them? For what exactly?

[LCohen]

Interesting article on death rates comparisons and "league tables"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/30/coronavirus-deaths-how-does-britain-compare-with-other-countries

Very good article and Prof Speigelhalter has been on the interview circuit since.

In yesterday's UK press briefing either CMO or CSA referenced the age adjusted deaths per capita being the ultimate retrospective test of how a country has done. Seems very sensible. But UK might still not look too good on that measure

[LCohen]

Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

Solicitors up and down the country will beg to differ on that point

Until there is conclusive evidence to suggest that the actions of care homes contributed to a shortened lifespan for its residents, then a solicitor would have to treat these cases as no different to the death of an elderly person in a care home, prior to Covid.

Sue them? For what exactly?

Well that is going to have to be looked at on a case by case basis.

If a death toll is high in a home just by virtue of the susceptibility of the residents and all reasonable steps were taken then there will be nothing to fear from inquiry or legal challenge.

If all reasonable steps are not taken then that would be a wholly different matter

[LCohen]

Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

It's hard to see how there will not be a public inquiry.

Right now there are serious but unproven allegations against UK government. Each of those allegations will have to be rigorously investigated. And if looking at the government you will have to look at other parties

[LCohen]

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

I'm envisaging a civil action outside a public enquiry - which as you say - are just a monumental waste of money.

We've seen enough of them here over the years to know they are a washout.

Will in UK there needs to be one. I have some concerns about how the Tories will seek to use their majority to influence the terms of reference but there is now an established UK standard and hopefully they cannot deviate away from that

[five points]

There will be a rash of civil actions and a (useless) public inquiry down south too.

[Milltown Row2]

Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

Solicitors up and down the country will beg to differ on that point

Until there is conclusive evidence to suggest that the actions of care homes contributed to a shortened lifespan for its residents, then a solicitor would have to treat these cases as no different to the death of an elderly person in a care home, prior to Covid.

Sue them? For what exactly?

If it's shown that there was a lack of ppe and care workers lost their lives because of it, that will bring about cases, same as residents in nursing homes who had no underlying conditions prior to Covid and care homes were having patients sent back from hospital without being tested and in a lot of cases the Covid was spread around care homes.

[Smurfy123]

Just released today on the north's deaths
90% of deaths are 60 years of age and above with 75% of those 80 and above
Now every death is bad so I'm not for 1 minute saying otherwise
What I will say is that locking down everything surely needs to be looked at
I think a total lockdown and isolation for 60s and above should continue
People are loosing jobs left right and centre
Livelihoods are wiped out in a matter of weeks

[trailer]

The game is up. Roads far busier today. The UK and NI governments have no authority. People aren't listening. They don't believe the CMOs or other experts as they've already badly let us down. The only way forward is to relax restrictions and increase hospital capacity. We've been failed by sheer negligence and incompetence.

Michael McBride the CMO in NI should resign. Vallance and Whitty should follow suit . Their handling of this pandemic has been farcical.