China Coronavirus

[Saffrongael]

NHS could certainly do with more funding but would it automatically equate to better results ? There is some amount of waste in the NHS.

[GetOverTheBar]

NHS could certainly do with more funding but would it automatically equate to better results ? There is some amount of waste in the NHS.

In the face of this particular issue? I suppose if you don't know what you are fighting to begin with it didn't really matter. Perhaps there could have been better care and time given to some who may well have been saved - we've all heard stories about full wards etc.... I don't know too much about the ins and outs of the NHS to be perfectly honest bar my own and other I know experiences.

Like I said a long time ago in this thread and my mind hasn't really changed - this virus is proving extremely efficient at purging the already weak and those most at danger. I do not mean that in a cold, callous way. Of course it's since been proven that it can get to all ages but by and large it's particularly ruthless to those who are most in need of care. Would a better funded NHS save this already at risk category?

[RadioGAAGAA]

Would a better funded NHS save this already at risk category?

That is a very easy answer.

Yes.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/nhs-told-to-up-its-game-in-helping-social-care-respond-to-crisis/7027193.article

A senior director at a London acute trust, who asked not to be named, told HSJ: "There's a real problem with private care homes refusing to take patients back unless they've been tested for covid-19. But [testing] is not the national guidance currently and there just aren't enough testing kits to do it.

"I'm now on calls with commissioners about getting more people out of hospital and into the community, and they're saying 'yes, that'll be done in the next week', and I'm on the verge of screaming at them."

Another acute sector director in the north west of England said: "We need care homes to be really robust. We've been hearing from colleagues that nursing homes won't accept their residents back after they've been discharged from hospital, unless they've been fully swabbed [tested] for coronavirus. This is not the national guidance, and we aren't able to do that right now. This could cause a huge issue."

Paul Brant, Cabinet member for adult health and social care for Liverpool City Council, said: "Some care homes have stopped taking new admissions as they are worried about bringing infected people into [the] home. They feel they have a moral obligation to existing residents and [are] concerned that they would be putting them at risk."

[seafoid]

NHS could certainly do with more funding but would it automatically equate to better results ? There is some amount of waste in the NHS.

https://www.ft.com/content/5b97eb8c-7a9b-4f4a-8159-9d35b5e7a310
Adding to the strain between the DUP and Sinn Féin is the fact that Northern Ireland's health service has been chronically underfunded for years, resulting in the longest patient waiting times for hospital treatment in the UK.

[Saffrongael]

Pretty sure Seafoid is a bot

[Captain Obvious]

Today reached the 2 million mark in reported cases, the first million took 3 month to reach.

[seafoid]

Another way of looking at things


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/golf-clubs-could-reopen-relatively-safely-says-prof-sam-mcconkey-1.4228939

"If everyone listened to me I'd be going: 'let's copy the New Zealand approach'. My suggestion is a bubble of seven million people on the island of Ireland.
"The reason we cannot be as stringent as New Zealand is the good people of Northern Ireland do not agree with each other, they have not agreed with each other for 100 years and they do not agree with us. So there is a political problem.
"For many, many decades smarter people than you and I have failed on that one. There have been Nobel prizes won and lost by people trying to solve that problem, and still they are not agreeing with each other. Robin Swann and Michelle O'Neill are still fighting [over British army assistance in NI] despite being in the same cabinet.
"That's why we are not doing what New Zealand are doing.

[trailer]

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.

That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.

[GetOverTheBar]

The NZ approach was proposed here long before NZ implemented their measures. Was a complete no go from the start and indeed it took people to pull the plug on air travel, not the other way around.

But we seriously need to talk about it going forward, whatever the political situation of it all. Ireland has a Geographical advantage in something like this that is vital and there will be another outbreak, beit a second wave they talk of - or something else....but I wouldn't hold my breath on it either.

In theory there is no reason why Ireland couldn't do what NZ did. In practice, that's a mess altogether - you would think something like this would take the ballache out of politics in the North, but yet....here we are.

[HiMucker]

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.

That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.

Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.

[trailer]

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.

That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.

Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.

Yes. But we can't test for positive cases and therefore we can't isolate them. We're past that stage for God's sake. Long past it. The WHO should've been telling us to do that in Jan instead of telling us everything was fine and the Chinese were on top of it.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless

Yes...

I can see no value whatsoever in knowing if:
- people working in supermarkets have the virus
- people working in food handling have the virus
- people working in non-COVID hospital wards have the virus
- people working in care homes have the virus
- people providing home help have the virus
- people providing care to vulnerable family members have the virus


[/s] 

[Itchy]

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.

That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.

Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.

Yes. But we can't test for positive cases and therefore we can't isolate them. We're past that stage for God's sake. Long past it. The WHO should've been telling us to do that in Jan instead of telling us everything was fine and the Chinese were on top of it.

I dont agree with you at all. The WHO gave timely sound advice. Muppets like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump ignored the advise. As this is the first world wide Pandemic since the early 1900's I think it is fair to say the WHO have done quite a good job in general. We all know who has let this thing get out of control.

[Gmac]

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.

That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.

Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.

Yes. But we can't test for positive cases and therefore we can't isolate them. We're past that stage for God's sake. Long past it. The WHO should've been telling us to do that in Jan instead of telling us everything was fine and the Chinese were on top of it.

I dont agree with you at all. The WHO gave timely sound advice. Muppets like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump ignored the advise. As this is the first world wide Pandemic since the early 1900's I think it is fair to say the WHO have done quite a good job in general. We all know who has let this thing get out of control.

who ?

[trailer]

Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless

Yes...

I can see no value whatsoever in knowing if:
- people working in supermarkets have the virus
- people working in food handling have the virus
- people working in non-COVID hospital wards have the virus
- people working in care homes have the virus
- people providing home help have the virus
- people providing care to vulnerable family members have the virus


[/s] 

Right. If I have had the virus and displayed no symptoms, how do we find that person? Most people are asymptomatic. That's why testing is just window dressing.
If countries could test everyone all the time that would be useful, but they can't. Developed nations with advanced healthcare can't do it, so how in the name of God would other less developed nations do it? Remember it's the WORLD health organisation not the DEVELOP NATIONS WITH ADVANCED HEALTH CARE health organisation. Their solution works in a handful of countries only.
The only test that matters is the test to see if you have had the virus. Everything else is bullshit.
Governments and the WHO are in full arse covering mode. Hard questions need asked of these muppets.