Brexit.

[johnnycool]

The point about paying for tuition isn't to cheat the system or to get your child into an environment that they're unfit for. It's to give them a chance to see if they can thrive in an academic environment, which has to be easier to adapt to if you're in it from day 1, rather than transferred in 3-5 years down the line.

Some kids will never be cut out for academia. Some will have to give literally everything they have to succeed at academia. But I would never deny/ complain about any parent wanting to give their kids that opportunity.

There is also a large difference in the quality of P6/P7 teachers. Some kids may be lucky enough to have great teachers who have them well prepared for transfer tests where as others may not be so lucky and have teachers who put very little preparation into this. It is not a level playing field.

How do you decide if a tutor is good or not?  They're not regulated at all.

On another note, Grammar schools are now taking in kids they wouldn't have looked at twice a decade or more ago as numbers for available kids drop in a lot of areas.

I never knew it was a legal requirement on Grammar schools to fill all their available seats irrespective of the child's ability. If they've an intake of 200, they have to just take the best 200 even if some at the lower end of the scale would potentially struggle in that environment.

I can think of several Grammar schools who do that currently.

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

Sorry I think you miss the point of getting into a school where the culture is one to learn, develop and better oneself.  The point is their ability to get three A's or whatever they are capable off in a non streamed secondary school, where a vast majority of pupils don't want to learn and drag the rest with them, is somewhat impeded.

The vast majority of pupils in a non-grammar don't want to learn? Where do you hear this stuff?

Maybe you should go back to school and learn to read and I am basing it on the Armagh Catholic Boys education system.

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

Sorry I think you miss the point of getting into a school where the culture is one to learn, develop and better oneself.  The point is their ability to get three A's or whatever they are capable off in a non streamed secondary school, where a vast majority of pupils don't want to learn and drag the rest with them, is somewhat impeded.

The vast majority of pupils in a non-grammar don't want to learn? Where do you hear this stuff?

Sounds a bit snobbish to me - must have went to a grammar school maybe?

That's pretty pathetic, so if you want to give your child the best chance in life you are elitist or a snob, catch yourself ffs.

[marty34]

The point about paying for tuition isn't to cheat the system or to get your child into an environment that they're unfit for. It's to give them a chance to see if they can thrive in an academic environment, which has to be easier to adapt to if you're in it from day 1, rather than transferred in 3-5 years down the line.

Some kids will never be cut out for academia. Some will have to give literally everything they have to succeed at academia. But I would never deny/ complain about any parent wanting to give their kids that opportunity.

There is also a large difference in the quality of P6/P7 teachers. Some kids may be lucky enough to have great teachers who have them well prepared for transfer tests where as others may not be so lucky and have teachers who put very little preparation into this. It is not a level playing field.

Are teachers allowed to 'tutor' at school?

[marty34]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

Sorry I think you miss the point of getting into a school where the culture is one to learn, develop and better oneself.  The point is their ability to get three A's or whatever they are capable off in a non streamed secondary school, where a vast majority of pupils don't want to learn and drag the rest with them, is somewhat impeded.

The vast majority of pupils in a non-grammar don't want to learn? Where do you hear this stuff?

Sounds a bit snobbish to me - must have went to a grammar school maybe?

That's pretty pathetic, so if you want to give your child the best chance in life you are elitist or a snob, catch yourself ffs.

Are you saying that pupils who go to grammar schools have the best chance in life?

How?

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

Sorry I think you miss the point of getting into a school where the culture is one to learn, develop and better oneself.  The point is their ability to get three A's or whatever they are capable off in a non streamed secondary school, where a vast majority of pupils don't want to learn and drag the rest with them, is somewhat impeded.

The vast majority of pupils in a non-grammar don't want to learn? Where do you hear this stuff?

Sounds a bit snobbish to me - must have went to a grammar school maybe?

That's pretty pathetic, so if you want to give your child the best chance in life you are elitist or a snob, catch yourself ffs.

Are you saying that pupils who go to grammar schools have the best chance in life?

How?

No care to quote me where I said that.

[t_mac]

The 11+ was a shocker by Sinn Fein. The ultimate outcome seems to have been more exams, and more diverse exams, thereby creating a natural advantage for wealthier families who can afford to pay for additional tuition.

I don't get the thing about tuition - surely if they need tuition, would parents not see how ironic that is to get into a grammar school?

Also, when in a grammar school, would they not get found out quick enough ?

If you've got a 50:50 chance of something you really want, and the opportunity exists to make this a 60:40 in your favour, would you not take it?

That's what parents across NI now face. I'd imagine there's very few P6 teachers would ever outright recommend against private tuition too, if asked. It can only improve their children, even if they don't really need it.

——

For the first couple of years in post-primary school, I expect there would be negligible difference between being in a high streamed class in secondary school, and a randomly streamed class in grammar school.

What children will though get from a grammar school is a greater focus on academic results and professional pathways. The children are encouraged on this pathway and are surrounded by children who will follow it.

When a parent pays £500-£1,000 to help ensure their child at least gets that opportunity, it's an unusually justifiable expense. Johnny might still end up a bricklayer - and probably very happy doing so - but at least he got to find out for himself that an academic pathway wasn't for him.

I'd say pupils would get found out quick enough in first year at a grammar school.  By that I mean, the teachers would spot a pupil in the first few months.

That's why tuition is used to get pupils into a grammar school as they are tutored but what happens after they go to the grammar  school?

So you think some child at 11 who receives tutoring and achieves a grade A in the 11+ wouldn't be fit for the school they went to, you wouldn't conclude there was a high level of intelligence there to begin with?

My point is why do they need tutoring to get into a grammar school? Isn't it ironic..don't you think?

What's the point of all the stress on parents and more importantly, the pupils themselves.  A lot to do with the parents I reckon - prestige for them.

No different in getting 3 A's at A level at a 'normal' school and a grammar school.  They can still access the same uni courses.

Sorry I think you miss the point of getting into a school where the culture is one to learn, develop and better oneself.  The point is their ability to get three A's or whatever they are capable off in a non streamed secondary school, where a vast majority of pupils don't want to learn and drag the rest with them, is somewhat impeded.

The vast majority of pupils in a non-grammar don't want to learn? Where do you hear this stuff?

Maybe you should go back to school and learn to read and I am basing it on the Armagh Catholic Boys education system.

I've read it again. I don't see what I missed the first time.
It is still a totally ludicrous statement.

Albeit a factually correct one in the context I have mentioned  .

[t_mac]

And you are entitled to your opinion, I am sure you are basing it on your experiences.

[tyronefan]

How is this in any way relevant to Brexit???

[Armagh18]

So it doesn't matter about Sinn Féin policy in the up coming election, why do they bother going round doors canvasing when everyone know they are abstaining and therefore they don't have to have any policies on social or economic matters.

To make sure "we" vote to make sure "they" don't win??

And we get no representation and they get handy money.

What money?

[Tony Baloney]

Some lads need to get lessons on trimming quotes.

[Eamonnca1]

I'm sorry I brought up the 11+.

[t_mac]

So it doesn't matter about Sinn Féin policy in the up coming election, why do they bother going round doors canvasing when everyone know they are abstaining and therefore they don't have to have any policies on social or economic matters.

To make sure "we" vote to make sure "they" don't win??

And we get no representation and they get handy money.

What money?

That would be their expenses.

[t_mac]

Some lads need to get lessons on trimming quotes.

Sorry couldn't resist.

[t_mac]

I would love to know how you came by your opinion. It is incredible that there is a Catholic post-primary school in Armagh where the vast majority of boys don't want to learn. Simply incredible.

You are brilliant on here nit picking language, you seem to get a rise out of it, I used a vast majority and in that I was meaning a high percentage not 90% +, I apologise for my inferior use of the English language, I bow to your vast (pardon the usage) superiority, my point stands there is one boys catholic school in Armagh which a seat of learning it is not.