Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate

[gallsman]

With regards the Sport angle, there is no getting past the fact a woman who is trans has had the benefit of her previous life as a biological male, the benefit of increased bone density, a generally larger frame and the other residual side effects of higher levels of Testosterone.

The most sensible option I think I heard was have a biologically female category and an Open category, although I gather this will probably wind someone up as Trans woman are women as well.

Transphobe. Don't forget, if you don't use "cis" you're transphobic.

The impacts to sport are particularly interesting. There will be a case soon enough where someone who self identifies as female/a women/whatever you want to call it will want to compete against other, biological women, without any surgery or hormone treatment. That's when the cry will come that sporting authorities are asking trans people to go through draconian, irreversible surgical or chemical procedures against their will to conform with antiquated, transphobic rules and policies.

[trueblue1234]

With regards the Sport angle, there is no getting past the fact a woman who is trans has had the benefit of her previous life as a biological male, the benefit of increased bone density, a generally larger frame and the other residual side effects of higher levels of Testosterone.

The most sensible option I think I heard was have a biologically female category and an Open category, although I gather this will probably wind someone up as Trans woman are women as well.

Transphobe. Don't forget, if you don't use "cis" you're transphobic.

The impacts to sport are particularly interesting. There will be a case soon enough where someone who self identifies as female/a women/whatever you want to call it will want to compete against other, biological women, without any surgery or hormone treatment. That's when the cry will come that sporting authorities are asking trans people to go through draconian, irreversible surgical or chemical procedures against their will to conform with antiquated, transphobic rules and policies.

Sport is the obvious one that will have people scratching their heads. And it is a gray area and difficult to draw a definitive line in the sand as fairness to all competitors has to be a consideration as well. It's a bit of a minefield.

[thewobbler]

With regards the Sport angle, there is no getting past the fact a woman who is trans has had the benefit of her previous life as a biological male, the benefit of increased bone density, a generally larger frame and the other residual side effects of higher levels of Testosterone.

The most sensible option I think I heard was have a biologically female category and an Open category, although I gather this will probably wind someone up as Trans woman are women as well.

Transphobe. Don't forget, if you don't use "cis" you're transphobic.

The impacts to sport are particularly interesting. There will be a case soon enough where someone who self identifies as female/a women/whatever you want to call it will want to compete against other, biological women, without any surgery or hormone treatment. That's when the cry will come that sporting authorities are asking trans people to go through draconian, irreversible surgical or chemical procedures against their will to conform with antiquated, transphobic rules and policies.

Sport is the obvious one that will have people scratching their heads. And it is a gray area and difficult to draw a definitive line in the sand as fairness to all competitors has to be a consideration as well. It's a bit of a minefield.

It's a paradox.

One could argue that sport is inherently sexist as by and large competition is directly segmented by gender, even in sports like snooker, darts and bowls, where physical strength and size have no bearing on the outcome.

But I'd guess that in the majority of sports, those divisions exist because biological females want them to exist. If that's the case, then they're right to keep non-biological females out, as that's why the division exists.

[seafoid]

What I don't get is those people who say they are not transphobic and yet refuse to accept that trans women are women.

Like, accepting that trans women are women is sort of the whole point. If you don't do that, well, that's transphobia.

I mean, if somebody classed themselves as "not homophobic", but then denied the existence of homosexuality, well, they'd be laughed at.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphobia

"Adult victims experience public ridicule, harassment including misgendering, taunts, threats of violence, robbery, and false arrest; many feel unsafe in public. A high percentage report being victims of sexual violence. Some are refused healthcare or suffer workplace discrimination, including being fired for being transgender, or feel under siege by conservative political or religious groups who oppose laws to protect them. They also suffer discrimination from some people within the movement for the rights of gender and sexual minorities."

No mention of losing an argument

[dec]

What I don't get is those people who say they are not transphobic and yet refuse to accept that trans women are women.

Like, accepting that trans women are women is sort of the whole point. If you don't do that, well, that's transphobia.

I mean, if somebody classed themselves as "not homophobic", but then denied the existence of homosexuality, well, they'd be laughed at.

No one is denying the existence of transgender people. They are simply saying that biological men do not become biological women just because they have had surgery, hormone treatment or have changed their gender presentation. They also don't become biological women because their gender identity is female.

[imtommygunn]

Ross Tucker does some interesting stuff on the sports stuff.

Radcliffe doesn't believe in the fairness aspect but is happy enough to take nikes money. Go figure.

[seafoid]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/trust-jk-rowling-spouting-dangerous-nonsense-trans-people/amp/

"Woman' is actually the status in UK law of a transwoman who has obtained a Gender Recognition Certificate. 'Woman' is the identity of a transwoman, as defined by the European Court of Human Rights. "

They got court recognition but not popular recognition. Putting the court before the horse 

[seafoid]

https://medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d

[sid waddell]

How is it transphobic? Who has decided that transwomen are women?! Again, just because f**king Daniel Radcliffe says it, doesn't make it so.

Transwomen are transwomen. Saying transwomen are women is conjecture and opinion, not fact. The fact that you and others just shout "transphobia" at anyone who questions it.

Your homosexuality analogy is completely false and you're not stupid enough to not know that. I haven't seen many people denying that transexuals exist, have you? Not believing that transwomen are women is not a rejection of the existence of transsexuality.

There was some self appointed twat may night doing a thorough breakdown of the Rowling letter. He claims rejecting the concept of "cis" is transphobic ffs.

Jesus wept. You're literally proving my point. Denying transphobia by openly engaging in it.

Says you. Get fucked.

Not once have I denied transphobia exists. Of course it does. Refusing to accept something is transphobic because you and some other gobshites say it is does not make it so, no matter how many c list celebrities come out to try and flog themselves as allies.

"Get fucked"

"gobshites"

Well, that's abuse angle of the Rowling supporters' fake victimhood shown up for what it is, anyway.

Perhaps you should listen to some trans people before deciding what's transphobic and what isn't.

[bennydorano]

3 tweets from Ross Tucker on sporting implications - this was in reply to a George Takei tweet. "When you defend so-called "biological sex," you sound scientifically ignorant and you elevate transphobia."

(For the uninitiated, he's a Sports Scientist who is very vocal on doping).

When you defend biological sex (not "so called"), you are scientifically correct. It also means you appreciate differences between sex & gender. This is helpful because then you may understand how elements of each can be valued differently in various contexts for a charged issue

It's apparent that there may never be common ground on many issues in this debate, but if one starts out discussing sex as though it's gender, there's zero chance. At the very least, it may help to debate the same concept, not two different concepts as if they are the same.

Purely from the sporting perspective, you can only understand why a separate category for women (biological females, if you wish) exists if you understand that it's biological sex, not gender, that creates the large physiological differences that necessitate separation

[gallsman]

Well, that's abuse angle of the Rowling supporters' fake victimhood shown up for what it is, anyway.

You slate me and make false accusations, I'll tell you to get fucked. It's not very complicated.

You think me telling you to get fucked or calling someone a gobshite is remotely the same as some of the abuse Rowling gets (TERF ****, for example)? Or that people are too stupid to be able to see through your shamelessly transparent tactic of drawing false equivalences to discredit the very real abuse some people (not just women) have suffered as a result of all this?

Talk to trans people? I live in one of the European capitals of the LGBTQ. I'll be having my cafe and croissant tomorrow morning and there'll be trans people sitting a table away. There are trans run businesses left, right and centre here. And you think you're in a position to tell me to educate myself on the topic?! Laughable.

[tonto1888]

Ross Tucker does some interesting stuff on the sports stuff.

Radcliffe doesn't believe in the fairness aspect but is happy enough to take nikes money. Go figure.

Paula Radcliffe?

[imtommygunn]

Yeah sorry I forgot about the other one being involved now.

[tonto1888]

Yeah sorry I forgot about the other one being involved now.

I mentioned it because isn't there doubts about just how fair she was when she was competing

[imtommygunn]

Yeah I would have my doubts. When you get paid by the people who facilitate cheating and then try to question fairness on things like this hard to have credibility. I think she probably didn't and doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds her. Maybe.