I feel like I'm missing something in this whole transgender argument thing. He's largely been ostracised by his friends and enemies, the main thrusts of his arguments seem fairly sensible to me?? ??? Cant say I've delved too deep into the various Twitter threads on it as the PCness of it would drive u mad. I wouldn't even know how to be PC in a discussion about it tbh.
I used to follow him and quite enjoyed his take on life but the whole transgender thing seems to completely take over his existence and too be honest in the end I couldn't work out if he was in the right or not so I unfollowed him....
He's still at it obviously then.
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2020, 08:34:57 PM
I feel like I'm missing something in this whole transgender argument thing. He's largely been ostracised by his friends and enemies, the main thrusts of his arguments seem fairly sensible to me?? ??? Cant say I've delved too deep into the various Twitter threads on it as the PCness of it would drive u mad. I wouldn't even know how to be PC in a discussion about it tbh.
I used to follow him for a while and yeah I think his main argument is correct in that men who identify as women shouldn't be allowed to complete as equals in female sport as well as the issue with children taking hormone blockers. But when you have his profile and go down that particular rabbit hole things get very messy very quickly when you start to take on the LGBTQ movement! Also he's completely obsessed about it which doesn't help.
There's nutbars on both sides of the spectrum involved in it and things get messy very quickly I just decided to unfollow because you see an odd tweet you agree with and then the comments under end up being totally insane.
A lot of people are quite blasé about gender and say "anyone can be anything they want" and I used to be a bit like that myself but Linehan gets into the anecdotal nitty gritty of the issue where there's the sporting issue and then men using it to take advantage of women's safe spaces/bathrooms and woke parents getting their children hormone blockers because they believe they don't like their gender so it can get very messy.
I think over the next few years this will become a bigger issue as society seems to be moving that way and anecdotal will become more mainstream and there will have to some kind of policy on it. It's a can of worms though if you want to look into Linehans past comments on twitter and the replies!
Quote from: Boycey on May 08, 2020, 08:54:04 PM
I used to follow him and quite enjoyed his take on life but the whole transgender thing seems to completely take over his existence and too be honest in the end I couldn't work out if he was in the right or not so I unfollowed him....
He's still at it obviously then.
Don't read mine it's too long Boycey covers it well with a lot less waffle!!
Theres a rumour all them Tyronies on the Joe Brolly thread are trannies Screen
#justsayin
Ps are we allowed to say trannnies?!
I still follow Graham on Twitter, for amusement from the angry mob thinking that the world should revolve around their sexual preference.
Sad to say that there is a whole spectrum between blokey blokes and girlie girls.
Us older folk (of a certain vintage) preferred it when life was simpler, not like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?edufilter=NULL&v=Xw5_yAUMAvg
Linehan is a moron.
A quick look at his appearance on Newsnight a while back where he compared doctors that treated young trangender people to Nazis would have told anybody that.
It's quite mental that somebody would be so obsessed with stopping other people living their lives they way they want to, and yet consider themselves to be the real victim. Sums up right-wing discourse in general.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
Linehan is a moron.
A quick look at his appearance on Newsnight a while back where he compared doctors that treated young trangender people to Nazis would have told anybody that.
It's quite mental that somebody would be so obsessed with stopping other people living their lives they way they want to, and yet consider themselves to be the real victim. Sums up right-wing discourse in general.
Linehan isn't remotely right wing though, and never was.
Quote from: five points on May 08, 2020, 11:06:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
Linehan is a moron.
A quick look at his appearance on Newsnight a while back where he compared doctors that treated young trangender people to Nazis would have told anybody that.
It's quite mental that somebody would be so obsessed with stopping other people living their lives they way they want to, and yet consider themselves to be the real victim. Sums up right-wing discourse in general.
Linehan isn't remotely right wing though, and never was.
Nearly every racist thinks they aren't a racist.
From what I can see (from limited browsing tbh) is 2 main points he's railing against-
- Some Transgender women posing a danger to 'real' women
- Parents trying to interfere with the gender of their children by introducing chemicals to alter/suppress their hormones.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
It's quite mental that somebody would be so obsessed with stopping other people living their lives they way they want to, and yet consider themselves to be the real victim. Sums up right-wing discourse in general.
This is horseshit. One of Linehan's main arguments is that women (biological females) should not be forced to share single sex spaces with anyone with a penis. This is not a right wing view and agreeing with it does not make anyone right wing.
Rejecting the suggestion that biological males can menstruate or conceive does not make anyone right wing.
Rejecting the suggestion that a female beautician should be obliged by law to wax a biological males's penis and scrotum does not make anyone right wing.
Nor does holding any of the above views make anyone transphobic.
Quote from: gallsman on May 09, 2020, 12:48:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
It's quite mental that somebody would be so obsessed with stopping other people living their lives they way they want to, and yet consider themselves to be the real victim. Sums up right-wing discourse in general.
This is horseshit. One of Linehan's main arguments is that women (biological females) should not be forced to share single sex spaces with anyone with a penis. This is not a right wing view and agreeing with it does not make anyone right wing.
Rejecting the suggestion that biological males can menstruate or conceive does not make anyone right wing.
Rejecting the suggestion that a female beautician should be obliged by law to wax a biological males's penis and scrotum does not make anyone right wing.
Nor does holding any of the above views make anyone transphobic.
Linehan has literally compared trans activists to Nazis and received a police warning over his online treatment of trans activists.
The man is a moron.
.
Where did the idea that you can self define as
a woman and expect everyone to accept it come from?
What is the point of trans and how long is it likely to last?
Quote from: gallsman on May 09, 2020, 12:48:13 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 08, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
It's quite mental that somebody would be so obsessed with stopping other people living their lives they way they want to, and yet consider themselves to be the real victim. Sums up right-wing discourse in general.
This is horseshit. One of Linehan's main arguments is that women (biological females) should not be forced to share single sex spaces with anyone with a penis. This is not a right wing view and agreeing with it does not make anyone right wing.
Rejecting the suggestion that biological males can menstruate or conceive does not make anyone right wing.
Rejecting the suggestion that a female beautician should be obliged by law to wax a biological males's penis and scrotum does not make anyone right wing.
Nor does holding any of the above views make anyone transphobic.
I am going to assume the third point does not just apply to pre op MTF trans women?
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2020, 11:42:56 PM
From what I can see (from limited browsing tbh) is 2 main points he's railing against-
- Some Transgender women posing a danger to 'real' women
- Parents trying to interfere with the gender of their children by introducing chemicals to alter/suppress their hormones.
Does he rail against men being a threat to women or does he limit it to some trans women?
Every trans man thinks they are a woman but they're not. They are men. It is easier on them and all concerned to treat them as men with a defect.
Look at Bruce Jenner. He was the olympic decathalon champion. He had 6 biological kids. I think all of them were models. The man was closer to being king of the heterosexual men than a lady. Something went wrong. He thought he was a woman and a doctor castrated him. This is not a solution it is closer to the final solution. Thinking you are a woman does not make you one. Bruce changed mentally from a man to a woman. He might just have easily changed his mind to change back to a man.
There is no way sex change doctors or doctor who help kids change with hormones should be let near kids
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/amp/
One in 50 male offenders in prisons are self-identifying as transgender, according to a survey by the official jail watchdog, amid concerns inmates may be attempting to secure extra perks.
The figure, the first by the watchdog, suggests there are up to 1,500 transgender inmates among the 90,000 prisoners in England and Wales, more than ten times previous estimates, and at least four times the number in the general population.
Among offenders from traveller communities the number self-identifying as transgender or transsexual rose to one in ten inmates, according to the annual report by Peter Clarke, the chief inspector of prisons.
I wonder if I want to identify as a unicorn or a dragon, could I do it? I'll get toilets all to myself, and more importantly, I'd be able to qualify for DLA.
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 09:07:03 AM
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/amp/
One in 50 male offenders in prisons are self-identifying as transgender, according to a survey by the official jail watchdog, amid concerns inmates may be attempting to secure extra perks.
The figure, the first by the watchdog, suggests there are up to 1,500 transgender inmates among the 90,000 prisoners in England and Wales, more than ten times previous estimates, and at least four times the number in the general population.
Among offenders from traveller communities the number self-identifying as transgender or transsexual rose to one in ten inmates, according to the annual report by Peter Clarke, the chief inspector of prisons.
And this has what relevance
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 09, 2020, 07:15:54 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2020, 11:42:56 PM
From what I can see (from limited browsing tbh) is 2 main points he's railing against-
- Some Transgender women posing a danger to 'real' women
- Parents trying to interfere with the gender of their children by introducing chemicals to alter/suppress their hormones.
Does he rail against men being a threat to women or does he limit it to some trans women?
That's probably something you'd have to read up on and decide for yourself tbh. It's the trans thing that he's specifically got a bee in his bonnet about. Womens' safe spaces being eroded etc..
Quote from: bennydorano on May 09, 2020, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 09, 2020, 07:15:54 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 08, 2020, 11:42:56 PM
From what I can see (from limited browsing tbh) is 2 main points he's railing against-
- Some Transgender women posing a danger to 'real' women
- Parents trying to interfere with the gender of their children by introducing chemicals to alter/suppress their hormones.
Does he rail against men being a threat to women or does he limit it to some trans women?
That's probably something you'd have to read up on and decide for yourself tbh. It's the trans thing that he's specifically got a bee in his bonnet about. Womens' safe spaces being eroded etc..
Fair point. I would be a supporter of trans rights to be honest. That said I get why some people worry. Having fear mongerers doesn't help. Added to that, the whole parents giving their kids hormone blockers is wrong in my opinion. I do think there should be an age limit on that
I also support trans rights. Linehan also supports trans rights.
I don't believe trans rights should extend to anyone with a penis who identifies as a women should have access to single sex spaces for women or, for example, demand nonsense access to gynecological healthcare. I don't believe it's transphobic to say this.
I also don't believe that lesbians who have no interest in being sexually attracted to trans women should be labelled as TERFs or be forced to adopt nonsense language like "genital preference" to avoid offending anyone looking to be offended.
Linehan suppports trans rights in a similar way to how Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supports rights for Muslims.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
Linehan suppports trans rights in a similar way to how Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supports rights for Muslims.
This is a calculated, deliberate attempt to misconstrue his position. Not wanting teenage girls to be exposed to penises is not in any way exclusionary towards trans people. Pointing out that female prisoners have been raped by their trans women cellmates who have demanded to be housed in female jails is not exclusionary towards trans people.
Calling trans activists Nazis and paedophiles is fairly hard to misconstrue. It's also the point at which you completely lose the argument (though Linehan had already long lost it) and reasonable people decide, very reasonably, that you're a f**king imbecile, and completely toxic.
Linehan passed that point a long time ago.
The ego is a strange thing, and a damaged ego is an even stranger thing, a damaged ego of a particular type of "last word merchant" on the internet is even stranger still. It's amazing the lengths people on the internet like Linehan will go to to delude themselves they're right, when they're wrong.
His bleatings now are Gemma O'Doherty-like.
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
Linehan suppports trans rights in a similar way to how Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supports rights for Muslims.
So what?
A lot of the trans agenda is dubious.
Calling trans activists Nazis probably comes from his personal experience. Perhaps he should have called them Zionists.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 09, 2020, 09:35:01 AM
I wonder if I want to identify as a unicorn or a dragon, could I do it? I'll get toilets all to myself, and more importantly, I'd be able to qualify for DLA.
There's nothing stopping you :-\
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
Linehan suppports trans rights in a similar way to how Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supports rights for Muslims.
So what?
A lot of the trans agenda is dubious.
Calling trans activists Nazis probably comes from his personal experience. Perhaps he should have called them Zionists.
What is this trans agenda you speak of? Do trans people sit in a room and come up with agendas? And what about it is dubious?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 09, 2020, 07:51:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 09, 2020, 09:35:01 AM
I wonder if I want to identify as a unicorn or a dragon, could I do it? I'll get toilets all to myself, and more importantly, I'd be able to qualify for DLA.
There's nothing stopping you :-\
Right so, I'll do just that. And none of youse backstards are using my toilet!
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 09, 2020, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
Linehan suppports trans rights in a similar way to how Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supports rights for Muslims.
So what?
A lot of the trans agenda is dubious.
Calling trans activists Nazis probably comes from his personal experience. Perhaps he should have called them Zionists.
What is this trans agenda you speak of? Do trans people sit in a room and come up with agendas? And what about it is dubious?
The idea that biological facts are social constructs
The concept of the pregnant man
Hounding feminists
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 09, 2020, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
Linehan suppports trans rights in a similar way to how Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supports rights for Muslims.
So what?
A lot of the trans agenda is dubious.
Calling trans activists Nazis probably comes from his personal experience. Perhaps he should have called them Zionists.
What is this trans agenda you speak of? Do trans people sit in a room and come up with agendas? And what about it is dubious?
The idea that biological facts are social constructs
The concept of the pregnant man
Hounding feminists
And do all these trans people get together and discuss what goes on this agenda? Do they have crossover meetings with the people who write the gay agenda? What about the feminists who support them, do they hound them also?
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 09, 2020, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 09, 2020, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
Linehan suppports trans rights in a similar way to how Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supports rights for Muslims.
So what?
A lot of the trans agenda is dubious.
Calling trans activists Nazis probably comes from his personal experience. Perhaps he should have called them Zionists.
What is this trans agenda you speak of? Do trans people sit in a room and come up with agendas? And what about it is dubious?
The idea that biological facts are social constructs
The concept of the pregnant man
Hounding feminists
And do all these trans people get together and discuss what goes on this agenda? Do they have crossover meetings with the people who write the gay agenda? What about the feminists who support them, do they hound them also?
Dave Chappelle explains it quite well, they're all in the same car going to the same place but the gay man is driving :)
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 09, 2020, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 09, 2020, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2020, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 09, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
Linehan suppports trans rights in a similar way to how Stephen Yaxley-Lennon supports rights for Muslims.
So what?
A lot of the trans agenda is dubious.
Calling trans activists Nazis probably comes from his personal experience. Perhaps he should have called them Zionists.
What is this trans agenda you speak of? Do trans people sit in a room and come up with agendas? And what about it is dubious?
The idea that biological facts are social constructs
The concept of the pregnant man
Hounding feminists
And do all these trans people get together and discuss what goes on this agenda? Do they have crossover meetings with the people who write the gay agenda? What about the feminists who support them, do they hound them also?
Where do the memes come from?
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-kent-52471697
Freddy McConnell appealed against a decision made by a High Court judge that a person who carries and gives birth to a baby is legally a mother.
Mr McConnell, from Kent, wanted to be named father or parent on the document.
He said he was disappointed by the Court of Appeal ruling, adding that his fight was "just not over".
Again, what do I appear to keep missing in these debates? Jk Rowling tweets something that appears innocuous & reasonable and Twitter wants her hung, drawn & quartered. Left wing twitter is every bit as bad as right wing Twitter, only they think they're on the moral high ground every single time. They do love a pile on.
Protest at City Hall tomorrow 11am. Bring your broomstick.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 08, 2020, 09:21:38 PM
Again, what do I appear to keep missing in these debates? Jk Rowling tweets something that appears innocuous & reasonable and Twitter wants her hung, drawn & quartered. Left wing twitter is every bit as bad as right wing Twitter, only they think they're on the moral high ground every single time. They do love a pile on.
Looked to me to be a tweet begging for a reaction. The article wasn't even about transgender issues.
She got what she was looking for.
Quote from: J70 on June 08, 2020, 09:31:17 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 08, 2020, 09:21:38 PM
Again, what do I appear to keep missing in these debates? Jk Rowling tweets something that appears innocuous & reasonable and Twitter wants her hung, drawn & quartered. Left wing twitter is every bit as bad as right wing Twitter, only they think they're on the moral high ground every single time. They do love a pile on.
Looked to me to be a tweet begging for a reaction. The article wasn't even about transgender issues.
She got what she was looking for.
It looked like a case of "she started it". She got offended by the phrase "People who menstruate" and decided to tweet about it knowing exactly what sort of reaction she would get..
She didn't "get offended by it". She ridiculed the fact that we now live in a world where people are being asked to think twice about using the word "women" lest they offend a "woman" who is incapable of menstruation. Is that really that out there a notion?!
Quote from: gallsman on June 08, 2020, 11:05:54 PM
She didn't "get offended by it". She ridiculed the fact that we now live in a world where people are being asked to think twice about using the word "women" lest they offend a "woman" who is incapable of menstruation. Is that really that out there a notion?!
If it is, it wasn't in the article.
There was one reference to include trans people and that was it.
You'd swear women and girls weren't mentioned the way she was going on.
She was looking for a twitter fight.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 08, 2020, 09:21:38 PM
Left wing twitter is every bit as bad as right wing Twitter, only they think they're on the moral high ground every single time. They do love a pile on.
I suppose asking for trans people to be treated with respect is just as bad as denying the Holocaust, when you think about it.
Quote from: gallsman on June 08, 2020, 11:05:54 PM
She didn't "get offended by it". She ridiculed the fact that we now live in a world where people are being asked to think twice about using the word "women" lest they offend a "woman" who is incapable of menstruation. Is that really that out there a notion?!
I'm pretty sure women who can't menstruate are still women, and like to be called women. My mam's one, and she's
definitely a woman.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:38:49 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 08, 2020, 11:05:54 PM
She didn't "get offended by it". She ridiculed the fact that we now live in a world where people are being asked to think twice about using the word "women" lest they offend a "woman" who is incapable of menstruation. Is that really that out there a notion?!
I'm pretty sure women who can't menstruate are still women, and like to be called women. My mam's one, and she's definitely a woman.
Ah look, you've deliberately pretended not to know what I meant. How pathetically transparent.
Philip Pullman tweet.
Re J.K. Rowling: I can't understand anything about this quarrel, and the last time I asked about it I got shouted at by everyone, so I don't know why the hell I bother to try and make sense of it.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:31:29 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 08, 2020, 09:21:38 PM
Left wing twitter is every bit as bad as right wing Twitter, only they think they're on the moral high ground every single time. They do love a pile on.
I suppose asking for trans people to be treated with respect is just as bad as denying the Holocaust, when you think about it.
See that's the thing I've yet to read anything disrespectful, there's also the fact that Biological facts are actual facts.
Plenty of left wing gobshites are a bit all over the shop in their dealings with holocaust and Jews / Israelis in general there chief so maybe not as much of a left wing hill to die on as you think.
I agree with that dude Pullman it's s complete minefield.
I think we can all agree that Trans people deserve to be treated with respect but where do you draw the line. The sport thing just doesn't sit well with me at all I cannot for the life of me see how it's fair for a trans woman to compete on a level playing field with cis woman.
Even having to call women cis women doesn't feel like it should be the case either.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 07:57:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:38:49 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 08, 2020, 11:05:54 PM
She didn't "get offended by it". She ridiculed the fact that we now live in a world where people are being asked to think twice about using the word "women" lest they offend a "woman" who is incapable of menstruation. Is that really that out there a notion?!
I'm pretty sure women who can't menstruate are still women, and like to be called women. My mam's one, and she's definitely a woman.
I don't think you yourself know what you meant. Your post would indicate such, anyway.
Ah look, you've deliberately pretended not to know what I meant. How pathetically transparent.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 09, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:31:29 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 08, 2020, 09:21:38 PM
Left wing twitter is every bit as bad as right wing Twitter, only they think they're on the moral high ground every single time. They do love a pile on.
I suppose asking for trans people to be treated with respect is just as bad as denying the Holocaust, when you think about it.
See that's the thing I've yet to read anything disrespectful, there's also the fact that Biological facts are actual facts.
Plenty of left wing gobshites are a bit all over the shop in their dealings with holocaust and Jews / Israelis in general there chief so maybe not as much of a left wing hill to die on as you think.
Those
not on the end of centuries of disrespect are not the best people to judge whether disrespect is being shown.
I think the last two weeks' events in America should have taught you that, not that it should be needed to be taught.
Strange that your response to me mentioning Holocaust denial was to bring up Israel. Very strange indeed.
I absolutely agree with your first comment there. Hence why the likes of Daniel Radcliffe, imbued with the emotion of the suffering of women through the centuries, deciding that transwomen are women is utterly laughable.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 11:07:01 AM
I absolutely agree with your first comment there. Hence why the likes of Daniel Radcliffe, imbued with the emotion of the suffering of women through the centuries, deciding that transwomen are women is utterly laughable.
If you agree with my comment, you cannot agree with JK Rowling.
JK Rowling is not the trans women suffering constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry, and neither are you.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 11:07:01 AM
I absolutely agree with your first comment there. Hence why the likes of Daniel Radcliffe, imbued with the emotion of the suffering of women through the centuries, deciding that transwomen are women is utterly laughable.
If you agree with my comment, you cannot agree with JK Rowling.
JK Rowling is not the trans women suffering constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry, and neither are you.
JK Rowling is a woman, a group has suffered constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry throughout history and continues to to this day all across the world.
The vast majority of people telling her she doesn't know what a woman is, or that she should accept their definition of what a woman is are not women. They are men or transwomen. See twats like Radcliffe, Owen Jones or that insufferable Irish p***k Aidan Comerford.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 11:07:01 AM
I absolutely agree with your first comment there. Hence why the likes of Daniel Radcliffe, imbued with the emotion of the suffering of women through the centuries, deciding that transwomen are women is utterly laughable.
If you agree with my comment, you cannot agree with JK Rowling.
JK Rowling is not the trans women suffering constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry, and neither are you.
JK Rowling is a woman, a group has suffered constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry throughout history and continues to to this day all across the world.
The vast majority of people telling her she doesn't know what a woman is, or that she should accept their definition of what a woman is are not women. They are men or transwomen. See twats like Radcliffe, Owen Jones or that insufferable Irish p***k Aidan Comerford.
JK Rowling is being called out precisely because she is engaging in disrespect, ridicule and bigotry against trans women.
Your argument is essentially the same as saying that because Irish people as a whole suffered from oppression, that individual Irish people are therefore incapable of themselves becoming oppressors.
Well that equivalence is complete and utter horseshit and makes no sense whatsoever so we'll just leave that there.
Where has Rowling ridiculed disrespected, ridiculed or shown bigotry against transwomen?
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
JK Rowling is being called out precisely because she is engaging in disrespect, ridicule and bigotry against trans women.
BLX. All she did was state the bleeding obvious that being a woman is a question of biology, not someone's opinion.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 01:08:56 PM
Well that equivalence is complete and utter horseshit and makes no sense whatsoever so we'll just leave that there.
Where has Rowling ridiculed disrespected, ridiculed or shown bigotry against transwomen?
Rowling's whole spiel, as is Linehan's, is about denying that trans women are women.
If you can't see the problem there, I can't help you.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 01:16:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
JK Rowling is being called out precisely because she is engaging in disrespect, ridicule and bigotry against trans women.
BLX. All she did was state the bleeding obvious that being a woman is a question of biology, not someone's opinion.
Your statement of what
you say is "the bleeding obvious" leads one to believe you haven't thought or read much about the issue.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 01:16:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
JK Rowling is being called out precisely because she is engaging in disrespect, ridicule and bigotry against trans women.
BLX. All she did was state the bleeding obvious that being a woman is a question of biology, not someone's opinion.
Your dismissive statement that what
you say is "the bleeding obvious" leads one to believe you've thought and read very little about the issue.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 01:08:56 PM
Well that equivalence is complete and utter horseshit and makes no sense whatsoever so we'll just leave that there.
Where has Rowling ridiculed disrespected, ridiculed or shown bigotry against transwomen?
Rowling's whole spiel, as is Linehan's, is about denying that trans women are women.
If you can't see the problem there, I can't help you.
Who says transwomen are women? You? Owen Jones? What is a woman? Who gets to define it? Men?
Saying "you're not the same as me" is not transphobic.
Lesbians stating that they wouldn't date a transwomen because they've no interest in sucking someone's c**k does not make them transphobic. Agreeing with this position does not make someone a TERF.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 11:07:01 AM
I absolutely agree with your first comment there. Hence why the likes of Daniel Radcliffe, imbued with the emotion of the suffering of women through the centuries, deciding that transwomen are women is utterly laughable.
If you agree with my comment, you cannot agree with JK Rowling.
JK Rowling is not the trans women suffering constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry, and neither are you.
JK Rowling is a woman, a group has suffered constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry throughout history and continues to to this day all across the world.
The vast majority of people telling her she doesn't know what a woman is, or that she should accept their definition of what a woman is are not women. They are men or transwomen. See twats like Radcliffe, Owen Jones or that insufferable Irish p***k Aidan Comerford.
JK Rowling is being called out precisely because she is engaging in disrespect, ridicule and bigotry against trans women.
Your argument is essentially the same as saying that because Irish people as a whole suffered from oppression, that individual Irish people are therefore incapable of themselves becoming oppressors.
She was taking the piss out of the notion of "people who menstruate"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/international-womens-day-has-hijacked-trans-activists/amp/
"Olufemi - who had dropped out of the conference when she learned about Todd's involvement - wrote a statement saying that 'womanhood' is an 'umbrella term' under which all and sundry can gather. The author poured scorn on the notion of fighting for 'sex-based rights', calling the struggles to maintain female-only refuges, hospital wards, prisons and changing rooms "abhorrent""
Some of the trans rhetoric is absolute bollocks.
Sid, for someone who usually presents a solid argument, all you've done here is engage in ad hominem, false equivalence and obfuscation. You haven't addressed any of the issues. The notion that objective reality can be over-ridden by strongly held beliefs is just not one I can subscribe to.
That said, I think Linehan has lost the run of himself and become totally consumed by this. Unfollowed him a while back as it was both boring and depressing to read.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 01:54:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 01:08:56 PM
Well that equivalence is complete and utter horseshit and makes no sense whatsoever so we'll just leave that there.
Where has Rowling ridiculed disrespected, ridiculed or shown bigotry against transwomen?
Rowling's whole spiel, as is Linehan's, is about denying that trans women are women.
If you can't see the problem there, I can't help you.
Who says transwomen are women? You? Owen Jones? What is a woman? Who gets to define it? Men?
Saying "you're not the same as me" is not transphobic.
Lesbians stating that they wouldn't date a transwomen because they've no interest in sucking someone's c**k does not make them transphobic. Agreeing with this position does not make someone a TERF.
See,
you're now doing the exact thing you were previously denying Linehan and Rowling were doing.
And you can't even see it.
Utterly mental stuff.
I'm not doing anything of the sort. I have absolutely no issue with trans people whatsoever. I'm simply not in favour of the rights of women and lesbians being trampled on. None of that is disrespectful, ridiculing or bigoted towards trans people.
Can you please answer the question about the definition of a woman? Is it your definition?
Wtf is a "terf"?
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 09, 2020, 09:59:48 PM
Wtf is a "terf"?
"Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist"
Quote from: seafoid on June 09, 2020, 02:34:51 PM
[/u]Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 11:07:01 AM
I absolutely agree with your first comment there. Hence why the likes of Daniel Radcliffe, imbued with the emotion of the suffering of women through the centuries, deciding that transwomen are women is utterly laughable.
If you agree with my comment, you cannot agree with JK Rowling.
JK Rowling is not the trans women suffering constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry, and neither are you.
JK Rowling is a woman, a group has suffered constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry throughout history and continues to to this day all across the world.
The vast majority of people telling her she doesn't know what a woman is, or that she should accept their definition of what a woman is are not women. They are men or transwomen. See twats like Radcliffe, Owen Jones or that insufferable Irish p***k Aidan Comerford.
JK Rowling is being called out precisely because she is engaging in disrespect, ridicule and bigotry against trans women.
Your argument is essentially the same as saying that because Irish people as a whole suffered from oppression, that individual Irish people are therefore incapable of themselves becoming oppressors.
She was taking the piss out of the notion of "people who menstruate"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/international-womens-day-has-hijacked-trans-activists/amp/
"Olufemi - who had dropped out of the conference when she learned about Todd's involvement - wrote a statement saying that 'womanhood' is an 'umbrella term' under which all and sundry can gather. The author poured scorn on the notion of fighting for 'sex-based rights', calling the struggles to maintain female-only refuges, hospital wards, prisons and changing rooms "abhorrent""
Some of the trans rhetoric is absolute bollocks.
That's probably the first Telegraph article I have ever agreed with completely.
Imagine the fuss if usage of the noun "Man" was to be replaced by
Manx in order to make the term 'more inclusive' of trans and 'non-binary' students ;D That male sex wasn't a biological reality but a state one can feel oneself into - without having the necessary appendage and all that behind the scenes stuff.
La Leche League re-wrote its mission statement to remove the words woman and mother
https://lllusa.org/about-us/ "helps parents, families, and communities to breastfeed, chestfeed, and human milk feed their babies"
https://www.lllc.ca/joint-statement-use-term-chestfeeding
Chestfeeding is a term used by many transmasculine and non-binary parents to describe how they feed and nurture their children from their bodies.
Jk Rowling releases a statement, a long one.
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
Quote from: bennydorano on June 10, 2020, 05:37:01 PM
Jk Rowling releases a statement, a long one.
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
SHE'S A TERF!!
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 12:22:51 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2020, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2020, 11:07:01 AM
I absolutely agree with your first comment there. Hence why the likes of Daniel Radcliffe, imbued with the emotion of the suffering of women through the centuries, deciding that transwomen are women is utterly laughable.
If you agree with my comment, you cannot agree with JK Rowling.
JK Rowling is not the trans women suffering constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry, and neither are you.
JK Rowling is a woman, a group has suffered constant disrespect, ridicule and bigotry throughout history and continues to to this day all across the world.
The vast majority of people telling her she doesn't know what a woman is, or that she should accept their definition of what a woman is are not women. They are men or transwomen. See twats like Radcliffe, Owen Jones or that insufferable Irish p***k Aidan Comerford.
JK Rowling is being called out precisely because she is engaging in disrespect, ridicule and bigotry against trans women.
Your argument is essentially the same as saying that because Irish people as a whole suffered from oppression, that individual Irish people are therefore incapable of themselves becoming oppressors.
She must have offended the trans jihadis.
Her argument is quite sophisticated. She doesn't think the purely agitational approach helps the trans movement.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 10, 2020, 05:37:01 PM
Jk Rowling releases a statement, a long one.
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
from her article
'The current explosion of trans activism is urging a removal of almost all the robust systems through which candidates for sex reassignment were once required to pass. A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law. Many people aren't aware of this
....the Scottish government is proceeding with its controversial gender recognition plans, which will in effect mean that all a man needs to 'become a woman' is to say he's one.´
Also from the article
"It's been clear to me for a while that the new trans activism is having (or is likely to have, if all its demands are met) a significant impact on many of the causes I support, because it's pushing to erode the legal definition of sex and replace it with gender."
Changing legal fundamentals to benefit maybe 0.2% of the population at the expense of 51% doesn't seem to be plausible.
Quote from: gallsman on June 10, 2020, 07:11:34 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 10, 2020, 05:37:01 PM
Jk Rowling releases a statement, a long one.
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
SHE'S A TERF!!
Hard to argue with any of that. But Im sure Sid will give it a go :)
The main take I got from the JK Rowling article was that less is more sometimes, nearly 4000 words is more like the scattergun approach people take when in a school history test where they just put everything they can think of down on WW2 no matter what the question was. Her husband used to beat her up is very tenuously related to trans issues and would surely justify her taking up the cause of domestic abuse victims, not going after someone who likes to wear a dress.
One of the issues I have with JK Rowling and Linehan even more so is that they spend an unhealthy amount of time tweeting (and presumably thinking) about something that isn't really that important. If someone came into a pub and said they think the Tyrone team of 2005 was the best team ever there might be some back and forward and eventually people would either agree or disagree and move on but if the person kept coming back to the topic every 5 minutes someone would probably just say we have got your point and eventually tell them to shut to #### up about it.
My own slightly sitting on the fence view on the whole thing is if someone thought chopping off something doesn't change you from the sex you were born into I'd shrug and think I can see where you are coming from and if someone else said they feel emotionally more like a woman and would like to identify as 1 I'd shrug and think ok fair enough.
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
Why? And why do you hope they lose their job?
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
They call themselves "one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society" but want to change the legal focus from sex to gender.
I wonder how it will pan out.
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
They call themselves "one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society" but want to change the legal focus from sex to gender.
I wonder how it will pan out.
You think trans people are
not one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society?
I wonder who is more marginalised - a billionaire author, or a group which experiences some of, if not
the highest suicide rates in society - rates of attempted suicide among trans people vary from 32% to 50% by country. I'd be surprised if any other identifiable group of people experienced such rates.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
Why? And why do you hope they lose their job?
Trying to throw Rowling under the bus just for publicity and sales
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
Why? And why do you hope they lose their job?
Trying to throw Rowling under the bus just for publicity and sales
That's quite the take.
You sure you didn't mean to say Rowling was throwing trans people under the bus for publicity and sales?
Why should the person in charge of the Body Shop's social media account lose their job?
I thought proponents of this right-wing culture war claimed to be all about "free speech"? Of course proponents of the right-wing culture war are about anything but free speech. They're about cowing people into submission.
What expertise on this subject do Rowling or Linehan have, by the way?
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:55:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
They call themselves "one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society" but want to change the legal focus from sex to gender.
I wonder how it will pan out.
You think trans people are not one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society?
I wonder who is more marginalised - a billionaire author, or a group which experiences some of, if not the highest suicide rates in society - rates of attempted suicide among trans people vary from 32% to 50% by country. I'd be surprised if any other identifiable group of people experienced such rates.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/
Actual suicide rates are highest for poor middle-aged men. Itinerants live on average 15 years less than settled people.
Working class life expectancy is far lower than middle class.
A lot of people have difficult lives.
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:55:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
They call themselves "one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society" but want to change the legal focus from sex to gender.
I wonder how it will pan out.
You think trans people are not one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society?
I wonder who is more marginalised - a billionaire author, or a group which experiences some of, if not the highest suicide rates in society - rates of attempted suicide among trans people vary from 32% to 50% by country. I'd be surprised if any other identifiable group of people experienced such rates.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/
Actual suicide rates are highest for poor middle-aged men. Itinerants live on average 15 years less than settled people.
Working class life expectancy is far lower than middle class.
A lot of people have difficult lives.
Please provide some statistics that show poor, middle aged men have higher suicide attempt rates than trans people.
A lot of people have difficult lives, and I would say that there is scarcely a trans person who ever existed that hasn't had a difficult life.
Seems some here are content that their lives should be made as difficult as possible.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
Why? And why do you hope they lose their job?
Trying to throw Rowling under the bus just for publicity and sales
That's quite the take.
You sure you didn't mean to say Rowling was throwing trans people under the bus for publicity and sales?
Why should the person in charge of the Body Shop's social media account lose their job?
I thought proponents of this right-wing culture war claimed to be all about "free speech"? Of course proponents of the right-wing culture war are about anything but free speech. They're about cowing people into submission.
What expertise on this subject do Rowling or Linehan have, by the way?
Probably similar to yourself Sid.
Right wing culture war - you dont half talk some shite Sid.
Any points you normally make get lost in the shite you include in your posts - IMHO
Rowling and Linehan are both woke lefties actually.
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 02:18:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
Why? And why do you hope they lose their job?
Trying to throw Rowling under the bus just for publicity and sales
That's quite the take.
You sure you didn't mean to say Rowling was throwing trans people under the bus for publicity and sales?
Why should the person in charge of the Body Shop's social media account lose their job?
I thought proponents of this right-wing culture war claimed to be all about "free speech"? Of course proponents of the right-wing culture war are about anything but free speech. They're about cowing people into submission.
What expertise on this subject do Rowling or Linehan have, by the way?
Probably similar to yourself Sid.
Right wing culture war - you dont half talk some shite Sid.
Any points you normally make get lost in the shite you include in your posts - IMHO
If they have no expertise, why are they sticking their oar in on something they know sod all about?
I call what is going on a right-wing culture war because that's exactly what it
is. Like, have you been asleep for the last five years as the reactionary war against any sort of progressive politics, expertise, fact or reason contaminates politics and the public sphere worldwide like a particularly malignant cancer?
Denigrating and ridiculing trans people is an integral part of the ongoing right-wing culture war.
Right-wing culture warriors shite on about stuff they know nothing about, then, when they face criticism for their stupid views, they laughably claim victimhood.
That's exactly what Rowling and Linehan have done. Self awareness: precisely zero.
Jesus Christ, an irony awareness indicator is required for this thread. Sid, you are guilty of everything you're accusing everyone else of.
Is sid Syferus?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 11, 2020, 04:02:49 PM
Is sid Syferus?
I think Sid has more substance than Syferus ever had. Although both had the same confrontational technique and desire to get into a fight. Or as I said before acting like a c**k.
Any wonder people ask wtf is going on when you remove the hyperbole and read what was actually written.
https://medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 02:16:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:55:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
They call themselves "one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society" but want to change the legal focus from sex to gender.
I wonder how it will pan out.
You think trans people are not one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society?
I wonder who is more marginalised - a billionaire author, or a group which experiences some of, if not the highest suicide rates in society - rates of attempted suicide among trans people vary from 32% to 50% by country. I'd be surprised if any other identifiable group of people experienced such rates.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/
Actual suicide rates are highest for poor middle-aged men. Itinerants live on average 15 years less than settled people.
Working class life expectancy is far lower than middle class.
A lot of people have difficult lives.
Please provide some statistics that show poor, middle aged men have higher suicide attempt rates than trans people.
A lot of people have difficult lives, and I would say that there is scarcely a trans person who ever existed that hasn't had a difficult life.
Seems some here are content that their lives should be made as difficult as possible.
Suicide attempts don't tend to be followed statistically AFAIK Sid. It's deeply personal.
There aren't many middle aged trans either. Certainly not as many as cis unemployed males who are middle aged. It's the same numberswise regarding trans vs women. There are more women.
The trans movement in its current form is fairly young.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 11, 2020, 03:58:23 PM
Jesus Christ, an irony awareness indicator is required for this thread. Sid, you are guilty of everything you're accusing everyone else of.
Really?
I thought it was just that I had a low tolerance for utter bullshit, but there you go.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 11, 2020, 04:22:54 PM
Any wonder people ask wtf is going on when you remove the hyperbole and read what was actually written.
https://medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d
That isn't an argument.
Anybody can say that they "respect trans rights". It's a vacuous statement. It's empty rhetoric because it's entirely centred on that person's view that they cannot possibly be wrong in what they are saying and makes no attempt whatsoever to acknowledge the actual views of trans people. Rowling, like Linehan, has proved over and over that she really doesn't respect those rights. Cherry picking a vacuous tweet or two doesn't change that one iota.
I mean Donald Trump can
claim that he's not a racist, that doesn't mean it's true, he clearly is one.
Online abuse, reprehensible as it is, is totally irrelevant to the validity of any argument Rowling is making.
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 02:16:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 01:55:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2020, 11:01:55 AM
Whoever runs the social media arm of The Body Shop will be looking for new employment today I imagine - or at least I would hope so
They call themselves "one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society" but want to change the legal focus from sex to gender.
I wonder how it will pan out.
You think trans people are not one of the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society?
I wonder who is more marginalised - a billionaire author, or a group which experiences some of, if not the highest suicide rates in society - rates of attempted suicide among trans people vary from 32% to 50% by country. I'd be surprised if any other identifiable group of people experienced such rates.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/
Actual suicide rates are highest for poor middle-aged men. Itinerants live on average 15 years less than settled people.
Working class life expectancy is far lower than middle class.
A lot of people have difficult lives.
Please provide some statistics that show poor, middle aged men have higher suicide attempt rates than trans people.
A lot of people have difficult lives, and I would say that there is scarcely a trans person who ever existed that hasn't had a difficult life.
Seems some here are content that their lives should be made as difficult as possible.
Suicide attempts don't tend to be followed statistically AFAIK Sid. It's deeply personal.
There aren't many middle aged trans either. Certainly not as many as cis unemployed males who are middle aged. It's the same numberswise regarding trans vs women. There are more women.
The trans movement in its current form is fairly young.
Well if they aren't followed statistically, you have no basis for saying that middle aged men have a higher rate of attempting suicide than trans people.
Who is funding the movement ?
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 05:36:31 PM
Who is funding the movement ?
Have you considered it might be a Jewish conspiracy*?
*That's satire of such anti-Semitic views, for the less bright readers out there.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 05:25:55 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 11, 2020, 03:58:23 PM
Jesus Christ, an irony awareness indicator is required for this thread. Sid, you are guilty of everything you're accusing everyone else of.
Really?
I thought it was just that I had a low tolerance for utter bullshit, but there you go.
No, you are definitely a tool.
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 05:36:31 PM
Who is funding the movement ?
What movement are you talking about
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 11, 2020, 10:38:26 AM
My own slightly sitting on the fence view on the whole thing is ..... if someone else said they feel emotionally more like a woman and would like to identify as 1 I'd shrug and think ok fair enough.
excess snipped out from your message.
How far does fair enough go?
Men who have chosen to identify as female, no surgery no hormones, can just act out life as a woman, can compete as a woman in sports?
Can just walk into female changing rooms and take showers etc?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 11, 2020, 06:53:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 05:25:55 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 11, 2020, 03:58:23 PM
Jesus Christ, an irony awareness indicator is required for this thread. Sid, you are guilty of everything you're accusing everyone else of.
Really?
I thought it was just that I had a low tolerance for utter bullshit, but there you go.
No, you are definitely a tool.
Good argument. You've certainly showed me with it.
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2020, 10:46:46 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 11, 2020, 10:38:26 AM
My own slightly sitting on the fence view on the whole thing is ..... if someone else said they feel emotionally more like a woman and would like to identify as 1 I'd shrug and think ok fair enough.
excess snipped out from your message.
How far does fair enough go?
Men who have chosen to identify as female, no surgery no hormones, can just act out life as a woman, can compete as a woman in sports?
Can just walk into female changing rooms and take showers etc?
Sport I think is unfair to have genetic advantage pre surgery. I'm not sure going into female communal showers happens much, shower cubicle probably.
Just leave them be ffs is my main point on Linehan. He doesn't need to send 20 messages per day on the subject, I'm sure most of them just want to be left in peace to get on with there lives. He has a profile surely there must be something else happening in the world.
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 11, 2020, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 11, 2020, 10:46:46 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 11, 2020, 10:38:26 AM
My own slightly sitting on the fence view on the whole thing is ..... if someone else said they feel emotionally more like a woman and would like to identify as 1 I'd shrug and think ok fair enough.
excess snipped out from your message.
How far does fair enough go?
Men who have chosen to identify as female, no surgery no hormones, can just act out life as a woman, can compete as a woman in sports?
Can just walk into female changing rooms and take showers etc?
Sport I think is unfair to have genetic advantage pre surgery. I'm not sure going into female communal showers happens much, shower cubicle probably.
Most of Linehans arguments are hypothetical things that dont typically happen. If they go to the toilet it will be to use it the same as everyone else.
Trans women in weightlifting/cycling/athletics/boxing/UFC is plainly not fair and in the latter 2 cases downright dangerous for competitors.
Where do you draw the line though unequivocally we're supposed to accept someone who wants to identify as a woman to a fault ... there can be no boundaries to it as far as trans activists have it.
But clearly it's a huge grey area and a blanket "OK you're a woman now so you can enter women's prisons/play woman's sports/use women's bathrooms/ have a lesbian relationship" is not the right answer as these things are rife for abuses and there are plenty of examples of this.
Does it make me a transphobe to think these things am I suddenly an oppressor? I honestly have no real problem if someone wants to identify whatever they like but there have to be boundaries in cases where it is unfair to other people!!!
What I don't get is those people who say they are not transphobic and yet refuse to accept that trans women are women.
Like, accepting that trans women are women is sort of the whole point. If you don't do that, well, that's transphobia.
I mean, if somebody classed themselves as "not homophobic", but then denied the existence of homosexuality, well, they'd be laughed at.
How is it transphobic? Who has decided that transwomen are women?! Again, just because f**king Daniel Radcliffe says it, doesn't make it so.
Transwomen are transwomen. Saying transwomen are women is conjecture and opinion, not fact. The fact that you and others just shout "transphobia" at anyone who questions it.
Your homosexuality analogy is completely false and you're not stupid enough to not know that. I haven't seen many people denying that transexuals exist, have you? Not believing that transwomen are women is not a rejection of the existence of transsexuality.
There was some self appointed twat may night doing a thorough breakdown of the Rowling letter. He claims rejecting the concept of "cis" is transphobic ffs.
Quote from: gallsman on June 12, 2020, 12:30:57 AM
How is it transphobic? Who has decided that transwomen are women?! Again, just because f**king Daniel Radcliffe says it, doesn't make it so.
Transwomen are transwomen. Saying transwomen are women is conjecture and opinion, not fact. The fact that you and others just shout "transphobia" at anyone who questions it.
Your homosexuality analogy is completely false and you're not stupid enough to not know that. I haven't seen many people denying that transexuals exist, have you? Not believing that transwomen are women is not a rejection of the existence of transsexuality.
There was some self appointed twat may night doing a thorough breakdown of the Rowling letter. He claims rejecting the concept of "cis" is transphobic ffs.
Jesus wept. You're literally proving my point. Denying transphobia by openly engaging in it.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2020, 05:36:31 PM
Who is funding the movement ?
Have you considered it might be a Jewish conspiracy*?
*That's satire of such anti-Semitic views, for the less bright readers out there.
I imagine some tech money must be behind it. It's an ideology with doctrine and rigid discipline.
Disadvantaged groups normally don't have the discipline and aggression that this crowd has.
I think they took on a huge challenge. It's not clear they can impose their world view on the cis herd
Quote from: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 01:08:34 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 12, 2020, 12:30:57 AM
How is it transphobic? Who has decided that transwomen are women?! Again, just because f**king Daniel Radcliffe says it, doesn't make it so.
Transwomen are transwomen. Saying transwomen are women is conjecture and opinion, not fact. The fact that you and others just shout "transphobia" at anyone who questions it.
Your homosexuality analogy is completely false and you're not stupid enough to not know that. I haven't seen many people denying that transexuals exist, have you? Not believing that transwomen are women is not a rejection of the existence of transsexuality.
There was some self appointed twat may night doing a thorough breakdown of the Rowling letter. He claims rejecting the concept of "cis" is transphobic ffs.
Jesus wept. You're literally proving my point. Denying transphobia by openly engaging in it.
Says you. Get fucked.
Not once have I denied transphobia exists. Of course it does. Refusing to accept something is transphobic because you and some other gobshites say it is does not make it so, no matter how many c list celebrities come out to try and flog themselves as allies.
With regards the Sport angle, there is no getting past the fact a woman who is trans has had the benefit of her previous life as a biological male, the benefit of increased bone density, a generally larger frame and the other residual side effects of higher levels of Testosterone.
The most sensible option I think I heard was have a biologically female category and an Open category, although I gather this will probably wind someone up as Trans woman are women as well.
Quote from: MoChara on June 12, 2020, 08:06:32 AM
With regards the Sport angle, there is no getting past the fact a woman who is trans has had the benefit of her previous life as a biological male, the benefit of increased bone density, a generally larger frame and the other residual side effects of higher levels of Testosterone.
The most sensible option I think I heard was have a biologically female category and an Open category, although I gather this will probably wind someone up as Trans woman are women as well.
Transphobe. Don't forget, if you don't use "cis" you're transphobic.
The impacts to sport are particularly interesting. There will be a case soon enough where someone who self identifies as female/a women/whatever you want to call it will want to compete against other, biological women, without any surgery or hormone treatment. That's when the cry will come that sporting authorities are asking trans people to go through draconian, irreversible surgical or chemical procedures against their will to conform with antiquated, transphobic rules and policies.
Quote from: gallsman on June 12, 2020, 08:39:13 AM
Quote from: MoChara on June 12, 2020, 08:06:32 AM
With regards the Sport angle, there is no getting past the fact a woman who is trans has had the benefit of her previous life as a biological male, the benefit of increased bone density, a generally larger frame and the other residual side effects of higher levels of Testosterone.
The most sensible option I think I heard was have a biologically female category and an Open category, although I gather this will probably wind someone up as Trans woman are women as well.
Transphobe. Don't forget, if you don't use "cis" you're transphobic.
The impacts to sport are particularly interesting. There will be a case soon enough where someone who self identifies as female/a women/whatever you want to call it will want to compete against other, biological women, without any surgery or hormone treatment. That's when the cry will come that sporting authorities are asking trans people to go through draconian, irreversible surgical or chemical procedures against their will to conform with antiquated, transphobic rules and policies.
Sport is the obvious one that will have people scratching their heads. And it is a gray area and difficult to draw a definitive line in the sand as fairness to all competitors has to be a consideration as well. It's a bit of a minefield.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 12, 2020, 09:39:23 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 12, 2020, 08:39:13 AM
Quote from: MoChara on June 12, 2020, 08:06:32 AM
With regards the Sport angle, there is no getting past the fact a woman who is trans has had the benefit of her previous life as a biological male, the benefit of increased bone density, a generally larger frame and the other residual side effects of higher levels of Testosterone.
The most sensible option I think I heard was have a biologically female category and an Open category, although I gather this will probably wind someone up as Trans woman are women as well.
Transphobe. Don't forget, if you don't use "cis" you're transphobic.
The impacts to sport are particularly interesting. There will be a case soon enough where someone who self identifies as female/a women/whatever you want to call it will want to compete against other, biological women, without any surgery or hormone treatment. That's when the cry will come that sporting authorities are asking trans people to go through draconian, irreversible surgical or chemical procedures against their will to conform with antiquated, transphobic rules and policies.
Sport is the obvious one that will have people scratching their heads. And it is a gray area and difficult to draw a definitive line in the sand as fairness to all competitors has to be a consideration as well. It's a bit of a minefield.
It's a paradox.
One could argue that sport is inherently sexist as by and large competition is directly segmented by gender, even in sports like snooker, darts and bowls, where physical strength and size have no bearing on the outcome.
But I'd guess that in the majority of sports, those divisions exist because biological females want them to exist. If that's the case, then they're right to keep non-biological females out, as that's why the division exists.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 12:00:28 AM
What I don't get is those people who say they are not transphobic and yet refuse to accept that trans women are women.
Like, accepting that trans women are women is sort of the whole point. If you don't do that, well, that's transphobia.
I mean, if somebody classed themselves as "not homophobic", but then denied the existence of homosexuality, well, they'd be laughed at.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphobia
"Adult victims experience public ridicule, harassment including misgendering, taunts, threats of violence, robbery, and false arrest; many feel unsafe in public. A high percentage report being victims of sexual violence. Some are refused healthcare or suffer workplace discrimination, including being fired for being transgender, or feel under siege by conservative political or religious groups who oppose laws to protect them. They also suffer discrimination from some people within the movement for the rights of gender and sexual minorities."
No mention of losing an argument
Quote from: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 12:00:28 AM
What I don't get is those people who say they are not transphobic and yet refuse to accept that trans women are women.
Like, accepting that trans women are women is sort of the whole point. If you don't do that, well, that's transphobia.
I mean, if somebody classed themselves as "not homophobic", but then denied the existence of homosexuality, well, they'd be laughed at.
No one is denying the existence of transgender people. They are simply saying that biological men do not become biological women just because they have had surgery, hormone treatment or have changed their gender presentation. They also don't become biological women because their gender identity is female.
Ross Tucker does some interesting stuff on the sports stuff.
Radcliffe doesn't believe in the fairness aspect but is happy enough to take nikes money. Go figure.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/trust-jk-rowling-spouting-dangerous-nonsense-trans-people/amp/
"Woman' is actually the status in UK law of a transwoman who has obtained a Gender Recognition Certificate. 'Woman' is the identity of a transwoman, as defined by the European Court of Human Rights. "
They got court recognition but not popular recognition. Putting the court before the horse
https://medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d
Quote from: gallsman on June 12, 2020, 07:25:25 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 01:08:34 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 12, 2020, 12:30:57 AM
How is it transphobic? Who has decided that transwomen are women?! Again, just because f**king Daniel Radcliffe says it, doesn't make it so.
Transwomen are transwomen. Saying transwomen are women is conjecture and opinion, not fact. The fact that you and others just shout "transphobia" at anyone who questions it.
Your homosexuality analogy is completely false and you're not stupid enough to not know that. I haven't seen many people denying that transexuals exist, have you? Not believing that transwomen are women is not a rejection of the existence of transsexuality.
There was some self appointed twat may night doing a thorough breakdown of the Rowling letter. He claims rejecting the concept of "cis" is transphobic ffs.
Jesus wept. You're literally proving my point. Denying transphobia by openly engaging in it.
Says you. Get fucked.
Not once have I denied transphobia exists. Of course it does. Refusing to accept something is transphobic because you and some other gobshites say it is does not make it so, no matter how many c list celebrities come out to try and flog themselves as allies.
"Get fucked"
"gobshites"
Well, that's abuse angle of the Rowling supporters' fake victimhood shown up for what it is, anyway.
Perhaps you should listen to some trans people before deciding what's transphobic and what isn't.
3 tweets from Ross Tucker on sporting implications - this was in reply to a George Takei tweet. "When you defend so-called "biological sex," you sound scientifically ignorant and you elevate transphobia."
(For the uninitiated, he's a Sports Scientist who is very vocal on doping).
When you defend biological sex (not "so called"), you are scientifically correct. It also means you appreciate differences between sex & gender. This is helpful because then you may understand how elements of each can be valued differently in various contexts for a charged issue
It's apparent that there may never be common ground on many issues in this debate, but if one starts out discussing sex as though it's gender, there's zero chance. At the very least, it may help to debate the same concept, not two different concepts as if they are the same.
Purely from the sporting perspective, you can only understand why a separate category for women (biological females, if you wish) exists if you understand that it's biological sex, not gender, that creates the large physiological differences that necessitate separation
Quote from: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 05:15:10 PM
Well, that's abuse angle of the Rowling supporters' fake victimhood shown up for what it is, anyway.
You slate me and make false accusations, I'll tell you to get fucked. It's not very complicated.
You think me telling you to get fucked or calling someone a gobshite is remotely the same as some of the abuse Rowling gets (TERF ****, for example)? Or that people are too stupid to be able to see through your shamelessly transparent tactic of drawing false equivalences to discredit the very real abuse some people (not just women) have suffered as a result of all this?
Talk to trans people? I live in one of the European capitals of the LGBTQ. I'll be having my cafe and croissant tomorrow morning and there'll be trans people sitting a table away. There are trans run businesses left, right and centre here. And you think you're in a position to tell me to educate myself on the topic?! Laughable.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2020, 03:11:32 PM
Ross Tucker does some interesting stuff on the sports stuff.
Radcliffe doesn't believe in the fairness aspect but is happy enough to take nikes money. Go figure.
Paula Radcliffe?
Yeah sorry I forgot about the other one being involved now.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 12, 2020, 07:29:57 PM
Yeah sorry I forgot about the other one being involved now.
I mentioned it because isn't there doubts about just how fair she was when she was competing
Yeah I would have my doubts. When you get paid by the people who facilitate cheating and then try to question fairness on things like this hard to have credibility. I think she probably didn't and doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds her. Maybe.
https://news.sky.com/video/paula-radcliffe-trans-athletes-could-be-death-of-womens-sport-11697632
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-rowling-right-that-hormones-or-surgery-not-required-for-legal-gender-change
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2020, 08:45:57 AM
https://news.sky.com/video/paula-radcliffe-trans-athletes-could-be-death-of-womens-sport-11697632
Cheats could be the death of sport
Quote from: gallsman on June 12, 2020, 06:53:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 12, 2020, 05:15:10 PM
Well, that's abuse angle of the Rowling supporters' fake victimhood shown up for what it is, anyway.
You slate me and make false accusations, I'll tell you to get fucked. It's not very complicated.
You think me telling you to get fucked or calling someone a gobshite is remotely the same as some of the abuse Rowling gets (TERF ****, for example)? Or that people are too stupid to be able to see through your shamelessly transparent tactic of drawing false equivalences to discredit the very real abuse some people (not just women) have suffered as a result of all this?
Talk to trans people? I live in one of the European capitals of the LGBTQ. I'll be having my cafe and croissant tomorrow morning and there'll be trans people sitting a table away. There are trans run businesses left, right and centre here. And you think you're in a position to tell me to educate myself on the topic?! Laughable.
You were the person who drew a false equivalence between the "oppression" suffered by a billionaire author and the oppression suffered by the trans community, but carry on.
I'm not sure what the abuse Rowling got on the internet for her transphobia or you living in a city in which there is sizeable LGBTQ presence has to with the validity of what either of you are saying.
Actually, I am.
Nothing.
"Transphobia" seems to mean refusing to accept trans doctrine.
It doesn't seem to tally with actual hatred of anyone.
Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2020, 07:19:49 AM
"Transphobia" seems to mean refusing to accept trans doctrine.
It doesn't seem to tally with actual hatred of anyone.
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/transphobia
NOUN
Dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF
Feminists described as TERFs generally object to the term and sometimes refer to themselves as gender critical] British columnist Sarah Ditum wrote in 2017 that "the bar to being called a 'terf' is remarkably low."
Some self-described gender critical feminists say they cannot accurately be described as trans-exclusionary because they say they are inclusive of trans men.Some critics have called this reasoning "divisive and contradictory" and say that it represents "transmisogynist ideology".
Linehan seems a fairly intense fella.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/22/authors-quit-jk-rowlings-literary-agency-row-trans-rights/
The Harry Potter author is represented by the Blair Partnership. Three authors - Fox Fisher, Drew Davies and Ugla StefanÃa Kristjönudóttir Jónsdóttir - announced via The Guardian that they could no longer work with the firm. A fourth writer has quit but wished to remain anonymous.
The Blair Partnership said it had declined to "meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view".
Jónsdóttir, also known as Owl Fisher, and Fox Fisher are partners and non-binary trans activists who co-wrote the Trans Teen Survival Guide. They described Davies as "an incredible trans ally".
In a statement, the trio said: "This decision is not made lightly, and we are saddened and disappointed it has come to this. After JK Rowling's - who is also signed to the agency - public comments on transgender issues, we reached out to the agency with an invitation to reaffirm their stance to transgender rights and equality.
"After our talks with them, we felt that they were unable to commit to any action that we thought was appropriate and meaningful. Freedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed.
"Affirmations to support LGBTQIA people as a whole need to be followed up by meaningful and impactful action, both internally and publicly. As LGBTQIA writers ourselves we feel strongly about having an agency that supports our rights at all avenues, and does not endorse views that go against our values and principles."
They said that they had taken a stand as an act of solidarity: "Trans women are women, trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid. This is a particularly difficult time when it must sometimes feel like the world is closing in on you. We want you to know that you are not alone, that there are many people who will always stand by you and fight for you and that better times are coming."
The authors said they were making a collective donation to a charity that supports BAME women in Scotland who have experienced domestic abuse.
According to The Guardian, Jónsdóttir suggested the literary agency should conduct staff training with the group All About Trans but "these requests weren't met positively by the management".
A spokesman for the Blair Partnership said: "We support the rights of all our clients to express their thoughts and beliefs, and we believe in freedom of speech. Publishing and the creative arts are dependent on these things.
"It is our duty, as an agency, to support all of our clients in this fundamental freedom and we do not comment on their individual views.
"We are disappointed by the decision that four clients have taken to part ways with the agency. To reiterate, we believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view. We respect their right to pursue what they feel is the correct course of action."
Earlier this month, it was reported that several staff at Hachette UK, Rowling's publisher, had threatened to stop work on her new children's book, The Ickabog, over her stance on trans issues.
Rowling has affirmed her belief in biological sex and said in one tweet deemed controversial: "I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn't hate to speak the truth."
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
They probably had about as much success as me going into a branch of Santander and saying I will close my current account unless they cut all ties with Roman Abramovich
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
"Rowling believes in biological sex"
That is the problem
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Perhaps it is you who are full of it.
There is a big difference between having a different opinion and producing falsehoods.
One of the things that present debate confuses are opinions and facts.
People with a willy are not women, that is a fact. People with a willy should be allowed call themsevles women, that is an opinion.
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 02:50:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Perhaps it is you who are full of it.
There is a big difference between having a different opinion and producing falsehoods.
One of the things that present debate confuses are opinions and facts.
People with a willy are not women, that is a fact. People with a willy should be allowed call themsevles women, that is an opinion.
So if somebody has an opinion that child porn should be legalised, they'll publish, yes?
Why should we listen to you, who clearly has no expertise whatsoever, on the trans issue?
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quoting their own word ('all'), transfer it to another unrelated context, a most extreme context which you therefore extrapolate that they must support the publishing of holocaust denial crap. You're riding the straw man Sid.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:58:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 02:50:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Perhaps it is you who are full of it.
There is a big difference between having a different opinion and producing falsehoods.
One of the things that present debate confuses are opinions and facts.
People with a willy are not women, that is a fact. People with a willy should be allowed call themsevles women, that is an opinion.
So if somebody has an opinion that child porn should be legalised, they'll publish, yes?
Why should we listen to you, who clearly has no expertise whatsoever, on the trans issue?
They are trying to impose their gender belief instead of biological fact on non trans people and struggling.
They need to change something.
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quoting their own word ('all'), transfer it to another unrelated context, a most extreme context which you therefore extrapolate that they must support the publishing of holocaust denial crap. You're riding the straw man Sid.
I quoted it completely
in context. There is no other context about "we believe in freedom of speech for all".
And crucially, they clearly linked this statement to what they are willing to publish.
"All" means all.
If all doesn't mean all, it doesn't mean
anything, and thus, they are full of shit.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quoting their own word ('all'), transfer it to another unrelated context, a most extreme context which you therefore extrapolate that they must support the publishing of holocaust denial crap. You're riding the straw man Sid.
I quoted it completely in context.
There is no other context about "we believe in freedom of speech for all".
And crucially, they clearly linked this statement to what they are willing to publish.
"All" means all.
If all doesn't mean all, it doesn't mean anything, and thus, they are full of shit.
The cherry picking of "ALL" and riding the straw man in a straight line to the holocaust / Nazis and proving Goodwin's law inside 2 seconds.
A thoroughly dishonest and weak tactic.
Here is the full quote and do you understand the meaning of the word "reiterate"?
"We support the rights of all our clients to express their thoughts and beliefs, and we believe in freedom of speech. Publishing and the creative arts are dependent on these things.
"It is our duty, as an agency, to support all of our clients in this fundamental freedom and we do not comment on their individual views.
"We are disappointed by the decision that four clients have taken to part ways with the agency. To reiterate, we believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view. We respect their right to pursue what they feel is the correct course of action."
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:25:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quoting their own word ('all'), transfer it to another unrelated context, a most extreme context which you therefore extrapolate that they must support the publishing of holocaust denial crap. You're riding the straw man Sid.
I quoted it completely in context.
There is no other context about "we believe in freedom of speech for all".
And crucially, they clearly linked this statement to what they are willing to publish.
"All" means all.
If all doesn't mean all, it doesn't mean anything, and thus, they are full of shit.
The cherry picking of "ALL" and riding the straw man in a straight line to the holocaust / Nazis and proving Goodwin's law inside 2 seconds.
A thoroughly dishonest and weak tactic.
Here is the full quote and do you understand the meaning of the word "reiterate"?
"We support the rights of all our clients to express their thoughts and beliefs, and we believe in freedom of speech. Publishing and the creative arts are dependent on these things.
"It is our duty, as an agency, to support all of our clients in this fundamental freedom and we do not comment on their individual views.
"We are disappointed by the decision that four clients have taken to part ways with the agency. To reiterate, we believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view. We respect their right to pursue what they feel is the correct course of action."
You and Blair House are telling us that all
doesn't mean all.
There is no way around this.
The lesson is - don't unironically write something you don't actually mean.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:30:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:25:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quoting their own word ('all'), transfer it to another unrelated context, a most extreme context which you therefore extrapolate that they must support the publishing of holocaust denial crap. You're riding the straw man Sid.
I quoted it completely in context.
There is no other context about "we believe in freedom of speech for all".
And crucially, they clearly linked this statement to what they are willing to publish.
"All" means all.
If all doesn't mean all, it doesn't mean anything, and thus, they are full of shit.
The cherry picking of "ALL" and riding the straw man in a straight line to the holocaust / Nazis and proving Goodwin's law inside 2 seconds.
A thoroughly dishonest and weak tactic.
Here is the full quote and do you understand the meaning of the word "reiterate"?
"We support the rights of all our clients to express their thoughts and beliefs, and we believe in freedom of speech. Publishing and the creative arts are dependent on these things.
"It is our duty, as an agency, to support all of our clients in this fundamental freedom and we do not comment on their individual views.
"We are disappointed by the decision that four clients have taken to part ways with the agency. To reiterate, we believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view. We respect their right to pursue what they feel is the correct course of action."
You and Blair House are telling us that all doesn't mean all.
There is no way around this.
The lesson is - don't unironically write something you don't actually mean.
Now you are giving lessons ;D
All of our clients
All of our clients
All of our clients.
Obviously Blair Partnership are referring to freedom to express for all of their clients, who they choose to represent.
It takes a coward to extrapolate that "ALL" to mean holocaust denial and attempting to scuttle a proper debate by inducing Goodwin's law.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:30:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:25:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quoting their own word ('all'), transfer it to another unrelated context, a most extreme context which you therefore extrapolate that they must support the publishing of holocaust denial crap. You're riding the straw man Sid.
I quoted it completely in context.
There is no other context about "we believe in freedom of speech for all".
And crucially, they clearly linked this statement to what they are willing to publish.
"All" means all.
If all doesn't mean all, it doesn't mean anything, and thus, they are full of shit.
The cherry picking of "ALL" and riding the straw man in a straight line to the holocaust / Nazis and proving Goodwin's law inside 2 seconds.
A thoroughly dishonest and weak tactic.
Here is the full quote and do you understand the meaning of the word "reiterate"?
"We support the rights of all our clients to express their thoughts and beliefs, and we believe in freedom of speech. Publishing and the creative arts are dependent on these things.
"It is our duty, as an agency, to support all of our clients in this fundamental freedom and we do not comment on their individual views.
"We are disappointed by the decision that four clients have taken to part ways with the agency. To reiterate, we believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view. We respect their right to pursue what they feel is the correct course of action."
You and Blair House are telling us that all doesn't mean all.
There is no way around this.
The lesson is - don't unironically write something you don't actually mean.
It obviously means all writers in their stable including the fruitcake trans. crowd.
And they also mention not being reeducated in trans ideology.
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:39:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:30:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:25:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quoting their own word ('all'), transfer it to another unrelated context, a most extreme context which you therefore extrapolate that they must support the publishing of holocaust denial crap. You're riding the straw man Sid.
I quoted it completely in context.
There is no other context about "we believe in freedom of speech for all".
And crucially, they clearly linked this statement to what they are willing to publish.
"All" means all.
If all doesn't mean all, it doesn't mean anything, and thus, they are full of shit.
The cherry picking of "ALL" and riding the straw man in a straight line to the holocaust / Nazis and proving Goodwin's law inside 2 seconds.
A thoroughly dishonest and weak tactic.
Here is the full quote and do you understand the meaning of the word "reiterate"?
"We support the rights of all our clients to express their thoughts and beliefs, and we believe in freedom of speech. Publishing and the creative arts are dependent on these things.
"It is our duty, as an agency, to support all of our clients in this fundamental freedom and we do not comment on their individual views.
"We are disappointed by the decision that four clients have taken to part ways with the agency. To reiterate, we believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view. We respect their right to pursue what they feel is the correct course of action."
You and Blair House are telling us that all doesn't mean all.
There is no way around this.
The lesson is - don't unironically write something you don't actually mean.
Now you are giving lessons ;D
All of our clients
All of our clients
All of our clients.
Obviously Blair Partnership are referring to freedom to express for all of their clients, who they choose to represent.
It takes a coward to extrapolate that "ALL" to mean holocaust denial and attempting to scuttle a proper debate by inducing Goodwin's law.
Incorrect. They said they believed in freedom of speech for all, and linked it to what they were willing to publish.
All means all.
You don't seem to understand the English language - and neither do they - which is quite amusing for a publishing company.
Given this, maybe they shouldn't be in the publishing business.
I haven't a clue what you're on about as regards Godwin's Law.
Godwin's Law applies to ludicrous comparisons of people to Nazis - which is all the rage now with insane right-wing culture warriors such as transphobes.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2020, 11:14:27 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:39:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:30:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:25:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 23, 2020, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 23, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
QuoteFreedom of speech can only be upheld if the structural inequalities that hinder equal opportunities for underrepresented groups are challenged and changed. if people agree with us
That was pretty much how Rowling's publisher Blair House perceived the 'rebellion' by the 4 authors.
To reiterate, we (Blair House) believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view.
Presumably they'll be publishing David Irving's next tome of Holocaust denial, then.
Otherwise they're full of shit.
Reactionary Sid on a cherry picking excursion, reduced to using the strawman argument again.
I'm reactionary? ;D
What straw man? I'm literally quoting their own words back, in context. That's the opposite of a straw man.
They said they believe in "freedom of speech for all".
Now, unless they're open to publishing pro-Nazi propaganda including Holocaust denial or pro-ISIS propaganda or pro-child porn propaganda (maybe the pro-legalisation of child porn Claire Fox of the Brexit party could help them out there) or any number of other abhorrent things, they're full of shit.
Quoting their own word ('all'), transfer it to another unrelated context, a most extreme context which you therefore extrapolate that they must support the publishing of holocaust denial crap. You're riding the straw man Sid.
I quoted it completely in context.
There is no other context about "we believe in freedom of speech for all".
And crucially, they clearly linked this statement to what they are willing to publish.
"All" means all.
If all doesn't mean all, it doesn't mean anything, and thus, they are full of shit.
The cherry picking of "ALL" and riding the straw man in a straight line to the holocaust / Nazis and proving Goodwin's law inside 2 seconds.
A thoroughly dishonest and weak tactic.
Here is the full quote and do you understand the meaning of the word "reiterate"?
"We support the rights of all our clients to express their thoughts and beliefs, and we believe in freedom of speech. Publishing and the creative arts are dependent on these things.
"It is our duty, as an agency, to support all of our clients in this fundamental freedom and we do not comment on their individual views.
"We are disappointed by the decision that four clients have taken to part ways with the agency. To reiterate, we believe in freedom of speech for all; these clients have decided to leave because we did not meet their demands to be re-educated to their point of view. We respect their right to pursue what they feel is the correct course of action."
You and Blair House are telling us that all doesn't mean all.
There is no way around this.
The lesson is - don't unironically write something you don't actually mean.
Now you are giving lessons ;D
All of our clients
All of our clients
All of our clients.
Obviously Blair Partnership are referring to freedom to express for all of their clients, who they choose to represent.
It takes a coward to extrapolate that "ALL" to mean holocaust denial and attempting to scuttle a proper debate by inducing Goodwin's law.
Incorrect. They said they believed in freedom of speech for all, and linked it to what they were willing to publish.
All means all.
You don't seem to understand the English language - and neither do they - which is quite amusing for a publishing company.
Given this, maybe they shouldn't be in the publishing business.
I haven't a clue what you're on about as regards Godwin's Law.
Godwin's Law applies to ludicrous comparisons of people to Nazis - which is all the rage now with insane right-wing culture warriors such as transphobes.
Freedom of speech means the right to say what you want
It doesn't mean the right to force people to change how they people.
If trans rights depend on gender being more important than biological sex. trans right aren't going anywhere long term
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
A lot of it gets lost in the white noise and his annoying doggedness on the issue, but he does raise some pertinent points about predators, safe women's spaces and the safety of impressionable / susceptible/confused young people. (And I'm sure some other points).
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
This is a useless example, a shop will sell "woman's" shoes to anyone, just as a sports shop will see a GAA jersey to someone that wants to play soccer in it. This only issue here is the customer's willingness to pay.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2020, 05:57:31 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
This is a useless example, a shop will sell "woman's" shoes to anyone, just as a sports shop will see a GAA jersey to someone that wants to play soccer in it. This only issue here is the customer's willingness to pay.
Generally speaking if there is a chance you might have sex with them in the future then it could be an issue otherwise it only becomes an issue when you make it an issue.
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 06:16:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2020, 05:57:31 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
This is a useless example, a shop will sell "woman's" shoes to anyone, just as a sports shop will see a GAA jersey to someone that wants to play soccer in it. This only issue here is the customer's willingness to pay.
Generally speaking if there is a chance you might have sex with them in the future then it could be an issue otherwise it only becomes an issue when you make it an issue.
Well I might not want them sharing a changing room or bathroom with me, or playing sport in a sport supposed to be or women.
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
Do you have any evidence to offer that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
Do you have any evidence to offer that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
Yes 10 tweets a day
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
Do you have any evidence to offer that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
Yes 10 tweets a day
Can you provide the evidence that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
You don't expect me to just take your word as gospel do you?
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
Do you have any evidence to offer that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
Yes 10 tweets a day
Can you provide the evidence that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
You don't expect me to just take your word as gospel do you?
Do you know how to use Twitter?
If you dont think the volume of tweets indicates a negative obsession then we'll have to agree to disagree.
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
Do you have any evidence to offer that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
Yes 10 tweets a day
Can you provide the evidence that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
You don't expect me to just take your word as gospel do you?
Do you know how to use Twitter?
If you dont think the volume of tweets indicates a negative obsession then we'll have to agree to disagree.
No I don't regard the volume of tweets as evidence of a general hate towards transgender people.
He's interested in some aspects of the issue no doubt. If there is such volume as you claim,
then is there not ample opportunity for you to present a morsel of evidence of a general hate that Linehan has towards transgender folk?
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:26:52 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
Do you have any evidence to offer that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
Yes 10 tweets a day
Can you provide the evidence that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
You don't expect me to just take your word as gospel do you?
Do you know how to use Twitter?
If you dont think the volume of tweets indicates a negative obsession then we'll have to agree to disagree.
No I don't regard the volume of tweets as evidence of a general hate towards transgender people.
He's interested in some aspects of the issue no doubt.
If there is such volume as you claim,
then is there not ample opportunity for you to present a morsel of evidence of a general hate that Linehan has towards transgender folk?
You can go to his account yourself and see, why are you saying if there is the volume I claim?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Glinner?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 11:50:10 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:26:52 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
Do you have any evidence to offer that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
Yes 10 tweets a day
Can you provide the evidence that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
You don't expect me to just take your word as gospel do you?
Do you know how to use Twitter?
If you dont think the volume of tweets indicates a negative obsession then we'll have to agree to disagree.
No I don't regard the volume of tweets as evidence of a general hate towards transgender people.
He's interested in some aspects of the issue no doubt.
If there is such volume as you claim,
then is there not ample opportunity for you to present a morsel of evidence of a general hate that Linehan has towards transgender folk?
You can go to his account yourself and see, why are you saying if there is the volume I claim?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Glinner?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
You claimed volume of tweets alone proved Linehan's general hate for Trans folk. It doesn't, it's the content that matters. Can you select the exact tweets from his volume of tweets which you consider to be evidence of this general hate. You are the one who made the claim, now back it up. Just copy and paste the relevent text. I certainly have no desire or time to spend days trawling through a twitter account and then trying to second guess what you consider hateful.
Quote from: Main Street on June 26, 2020, 09:18:41 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 11:50:10 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:26:52 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 25, 2020, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 25, 2020, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 24, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
All words are transient in the English language depending on the context. e.g. 'a person who menstruates' + 'has a womb' + ... = woman may be true from the perspective of someone who hopes to have a biological child with this person but someone who menstruates being primarily what makes a person a woman is not a relevant definition to someone who owns a woman's shoe shop when a customer comes in to try on a pair of shoes.
Linehan is hiding behind the semantics of what a woman is to hide a general dislike of transgender people. If he just said transgender people are fruitcakes ::) it would have saved him a lot of tweets and we could all move on.
Do you have any evidence to offer that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
Yes 10 tweets a day
Can you provide the evidence that supports your claim that Linehan has a general dislike of transgender people.
You don't expect me to just take your word as gospel do you?
Do you know how to use Twitter?
If you dont think the volume of tweets indicates a negative obsession then we'll have to agree to disagree.
No I don't regard the volume of tweets as evidence of a general hate towards transgender people.
He's interested in some aspects of the issue no doubt.
If there is such volume as you claim,
then is there not ample opportunity for you to present a morsel of evidence of a general hate that Linehan has towards transgender folk?
You can go to his account yourself and see, why are you saying if there is the volume I claim?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Glinner?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
You claimed volume of tweets alone proved Linehan's general hate for Trans folk. It doesn't, it's the content that matters. Can you select the exact tweets from his volume of tweets which you consider to be evidence of this general hate. You are the one who made the claim, now back it up. Just copy and paste the relevent text. I certainly have no desire or time to spend days trawling through a twitter account and then trying to second guess what you consider hateful.
Neither do I, I am done arguing with you. Also he has moved his account to private this morning which he should have done years ago. He had 10 tweets or retweets yesterday alone, some at 9 in the morning some at 9 at night I would have said all of them dont even bother trawling through to find a hateful 1.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Glinner
"10 tweets a day"
It most have been a slow day for him. He seems to be absolutely obsessed about the issue.
https://mobile.twitter.com/brunskellevans/status/1276462147044663296
"The militant trans movement, like all ideological regimes, is eventually exposing itself and inevitably collapsing"
Quote from: seafoid on June 26, 2020, 02:21:02 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/brunskellevans/status/1276462147044663296
"The militant trans movement, like all ideological regimes, is eventually exposing itself and inevitably collapsing"
Trans rights activists are winning bigly when their opponents have to resort to comparing them to Hitler.
Graham Linehan did that too.
Seems to be a concerted PR "strategy" on behalf of the fossils.
Not much of a one if you ask me.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 26, 2020, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 26, 2020, 02:21:02 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/brunskellevans/status/1276462147044663296
"The militant trans movement, like all ideological regimes, is eventually exposing itself and inevitably collapsing"
Trans rights activists are winning bigly when their opponents have to resort to comparing them to Hitler.
Graham Linehan did that too.
Seems to be a concerted PR "strategy" on behalf of the fossils.
Not much of a one if you ask me.
They don't seem.to be convincing enough people.
What's he gonna do now that Twitter have suspended him?
Linehan cheerled cancel culture until it came for him.
It depends whether or not it's permanent.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 27, 2020, 05:26:55 AM
What's he gonna do now that Twitter have suspended him?
There's always Stormfront or thefreekick.com for him.
Zionism is very like militant trans activism. Zionists don't like their ideology being questioned either. Taking opponents out is par for the course. Zionists don't have a popular base. Neither do the trans warriors.
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 02:13:47 PM
Zionism is very like militant trans activism. Zionists don't like their ideology being questioned either. Taking opponents out is par for the course. Zionists don't have a popular base. Neither do the trans warriors.
With posts like this, it's almost like you're a raging transphobe.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 27, 2020, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 02:13:47 PM
Zionism is very like militant trans activism. Zionists don't like their ideology being questioned either. Taking opponents out is par for the course. Zionists don't have a popular base. Neither do the trans warriors.
With posts like this, it's almost like you're a raging transphobe.
I'm interested in ideologies. Trans activism is fascinating. But I can't see them bringing the ladies onside.
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 27, 2020, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 02:13:47 PM
Zionism is very like militant trans activism. Zionists don't like their ideology being questioned either. Taking opponents out is par for the course. Zionists don't have a popular base. Neither do the trans warriors.
With posts like this, it's almost like you're a raging transphobe.
I'm interested in ideologies. Trans activism is fascinating. But I can't see them bringing the ladies onside.
Luckily they all think the same and have you as their spokesman.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/womens-institute-reveals-now-accepts-6453762
QuoteIt obviously means all writers in their stable including the fruitcake trans. crowd.
Your position is clear on the topic.
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 27, 2020, 03:52:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 27, 2020, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 02:13:47 PM
Zionism is very like militant trans activism. Zionists don't like their ideology being questioned either. Taking opponents out is par for the course. Zionists don't have a popular base. Neither do the trans warriors.
With posts like this, it's almost like you're a raging transphobe.
I'm interested in ideologies. Trans activism is fascinating. But I can't see them bringing the ladies onside.
Luckily they all think the same and have you as their spokesman.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/womens-institute-reveals-now-accepts-6453762
QuoteIt obviously means all writers in their stable including the fruitcake trans. crowd.
Your position is clear on the topic.
Some of them are extremist, Maiden.
They want to.extend trans logic to.everyone.
All the TERF insults.
Gay marriage didn't damage anyone else's rights. Neither did giving cathoics in the 6 counties civil rights.
Moving from a sex based classification to.a gender based where there is no objective definition is pretty big. Why don't we have a national debate about it ?
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 27, 2020, 03:52:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 27, 2020, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2020, 02:13:47 PM
Zionism is very like militant trans activism. Zionists don't like their ideology being questioned either. Taking opponents out is par for the course. Zionists don't have a popular base. Neither do the trans warriors.
With posts like this, it's almost like you're a raging transphobe.
I'm interested in ideologies. Trans activism is fascinating. But I can't see them bringing the ladies onside.
Luckily they all think the same and have you as their spokesman.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/womens-institute-reveals-now-accepts-6453762
QuoteIt obviously means all writers in their stable including the fruitcake trans. crowd.
Your position is clear on the topic.
Some of them are extremist, Maiden.
They want to.extend trans logic to.everyone.
All the TERF insults.
Gay marriage didn't damage anyone else's rights. Neither did giving cathoics in the 6 counties civil rights.
Moving from a sex based classification to.a gender based where there is no objective definition is pretty big. Why don't we have a national debate about it ?
The word woman in the dictionary is just a word. It isn't important even if you were correct that it has to be gender based and could be seen as pretentious if you feel the need to point it out to someone. Your language above is an example of the bigger issue to me (i.e. the adjectives fruitcake before trans) is a good example of real issues which people face every day at school, within their families, when they try to find a job etc. People are who they are. Side issues like running in the Olympics is probably the last thing most trans people are thinking about when they are deciding to live a certain way. Like I said previously I wouldn't think it was very fair if Bruce Jenner entered the women's Decathlon as Caitlin in 1980.
Below are a couple of interesting articles. I am not sure but maybe it is why more people seem to want to make this life changing decision than 50 years ago.
https://news.mongabay.com/2016/04/a-sex-change-phenomenon-in-fish-suggests-there-is-something-in-the-water/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/24/toxic-america-sperm-counts-plastics-research#
So Graham linehan has been locked out of twitter now for some comment he made.
There was a very interesting article in the Financial Times yesterday
https://www.ft.com/content/003c71d6-b55c-11ea-8ecb-0994e384dffe
"One single theory allegedly at the heart of the western secular experiment: that gender — as a mutable social construct — exists in the first place, as opposed to sex, which in their view is objective,
natural and divinely ordained.
In 2016, the pope labelled it a form of "ideological colonisation" that sets out to teach young people "that everyone can choose his or her sex".
Precisely because "gender ideology" is so amorphous, it needs an embodied target.
To this constituency, the special pleading of an entitled minority threatens to encroach on the wellbeing of the majority
WoLF joined the suit out of concern for "the safety and bodily integrity of the women and children whose lives would be placed at risk or ruined" if transgender people had legal rights as women, its leaders said.
WoLF is on the fringes of mainstream feminism but channels a decades-old position: that the experience of womanhood is defined by female sex characteristics
Some feminists, like WoLF, argue that if people assigned the male sex at birth are allowed to become women officially, their presence in women-only spaces might endanger other women and children, or compromise the values and very raisons d'être of these spaces. Others, like Rowling herself, acknowledge that trans people can be women, but insist on an assessment process rather than self-identification, given the history of violence by men against women.
Still, the UK government seems to have accepted the arguments against self-identification, and will continue to insist on medical assessment. But here is its dilemma: to permit the continuation of this is to perpetuate a notion that is fast becoming outdated in medicine — owever, to date, very few countries have depathologised gender identity.
Unlike "gender dysphoria", which measures pathology, "gender congruence" measures "the degree to which transgender individuals feel genuine, authentic and comfortable with their gender identity and external appearance", as the originators of the concept phrased it. This mirrors a broader cultural revolution in understandings of the body, from "illness" to "wellness," a catchphrase of our times.
Transsexualism was now "just one more in a number of . . . discourses about self-optimisation: 'I want to be the real me.'"
But, as so often happens in human rights discourse around "minority rights", some voices argue that the rights of the majority run the risk of being compromised
The transgender rights struggle is not just about access to healthcare, or even about freedom from discrimination and violence. It is also, emphatically, about the right to be acknowledged or affirmed for who you are, and the right to decide this for yourself.""
So is transgenderism a pathology ?
Is self identification the way forward ?
How can a mutable social construct trump something objective?
How can women be protected?
I think the Western transgender issue and the aggression associated with it have its roots in Christianity and its attitudes to sex. Other cultures have been comfortable with the transgender
idea for many centuries. Eventually maybe we will too.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/did-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-become-hated-man-internet/
Linehan has argued that trans activism has aggressively shut down debates, de-platformed, and attacked women such as academics Kathleen Stock, Jane Clare Jones, Meghan Murphy and Magdalen Berns. Linehan has blamed trans ideology and activism for being misogynistic and erasing women's rights. He has claimed there's a conflict between trans rights and women's hard-earned sex-based rights. He's been especially vocal about biological females giving up safe spaces to share with female-identifying persons.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/12/j-k-rowlings-handprints-vandalised-accusations-transphobia/
An imprint of JK Rowling's hands have been vandalised with 'blood-like' red paint amid accusations of being transphobic.
The children's author has repeatedly been embroiled in bitter online rows with the transgender community after voicing what have been referred to as "homophobic" and "transphobic" views.
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
Graham Linehan has gone full creep
What a sad way to live your life
QuoteGraham Linehan joined a queer women's dating app to share trans people's profiles. It backfired, badly
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/02/21/graham-linehan-women-her-dating-app-trans-transphobia-backlash/
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Euvg2BYXAAgvMOz?format=jpg&name=900x900)
It's a toxic debate that's never ending.
Women were never asked if they wanted to accept the trans agenda
https://mobile.twitter.com/p1nchemarimacha/status/1359522342280572930
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Yet presumably you are quite happy with a homosexual using the changing room and ogling your daughter?
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 01:49:11 PM
Women were never asked if they wanted to accept the trans agenda
https://mobile.twitter.com/p1nchemarimacha/status/1359522342280572930
NSFW warning??
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 01:49:11 PM
Women were never asked if they wanted to accept the trans agenda
https://mobile.twitter.com/p1nchemarimacha/status/1359522342280572930
And what is the trans agenda? I am imagining a bunch of trans people sitting in a room. Phones turned off and SIM cards removed making bullet points of everything they want on the agenda
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2021, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 01:49:11 PM
Women were never asked if they wanted to accept the trans agenda
https://mobile.twitter.com/p1nchemarimacha/status/1359522342280572930
And what is the trans agenda? I am imagining a bunch of trans people sitting in a room. Phones turned off and SIM cards removed making bullet points of everything they want on the agenda
Linehan has lost the plot! What started out as him standing up for trans activism encroaching on women has become a total obsession and he's not handling it well at all.
I actually agree with most of what he says but the main message has been lost in the madness that has ensued.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 03:06:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Yet presumably you are quite happy with a homosexual using the changing room and ogling your daughter?
Not really comfortable with anyone ogling anyone who is underage if I'm honest.
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2021, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 01:49:11 PM
Women were never asked if they wanted to accept the trans agenda
https://mobile.twitter.com/p1nchemarimacha/status/1359522342280572930
And what is the trans agenda? I am imagining a bunch of trans people sitting in a room. Phones turned off and SIM cards removed making bullet points of everything they want on the agenda
It's getting journalists on message
Buying politicians
Changing laws without any public debate
Social media manipulation
And it's extremely sophisticated
Did most people under 25 start supporting the trans cause because they were all visited individually by the slua sÃ. ? Or was it structured and funded and executed ?
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2021, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 01:49:11 PM
Women were never asked if they wanted to accept the trans agenda
https://mobile.twitter.com/p1nchemarimacha/status/1359522342280572930
And what is the trans agenda? I am imagining a bunch of trans people sitting in a room. Phones turned off and SIM cards removed making bullet points of everything they want on the agenda
It's getting journalists on message
Buying politicians
Changing laws without any public debate
Social media manipulation
And it's extremely sophisticated
Did most people under 25 start supporting the trans cause because they were all visited individually by the slua sÃ. ? Or was it structured and funded and executed ?
Where do all these trans people meet to come up with this agenda? Do they crossover with the people who come up with the gay agenda? Do they make notes on the meetings? I'd like to see them
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
do bathrooms have a lock on them ?
Of course there's no problem because there's f$ck all transgender people around another storm in a tea cup .
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
do bathrooms have a lock on them ?
Of course there's no problem because there's f$ck all transgender people around another storm in a tea cup .
Stalls have a lock, of course. Sinks areas no.
However, given the relatively young, liberal, profile of the people who would frequent where I work, you're probably hell of a lot more likely to have openly trans people about than most places.
And still no problems.
Part of that is, I'm sure, the fact that no one is looking to create problems or controversy where they don't exist.
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 05:16:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
do bathrooms have a lock on them ?
Of course there's no problem because there's f$ck all transgender people around another storm in a tea cup .
Stalls have a lock, of course. Sinks areas no.
However, given the relatively young, liberal, profile of the people who would frequent where I work, you're probably hell of a lot more likely to have openly trans people about than most places.
And still no problems.
Part of that is, I'm sure, the fact that no one is looking to create problems or controversy where they don't exist.
any urinals in these bathrooms or all stalls ?
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2021, 04:14:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 03:51:43 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2021, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2021, 01:49:11 PM
Women were never asked if they wanted to accept the trans agenda
https://mobile.twitter.com/p1nchemarimacha/status/1359522342280572930
And what is the trans agenda? I am imagining a bunch of trans people sitting in a room. Phones turned off and SIM cards removed making bullet points of everything they want on the agenda
It's getting journalists on message
Buying politicians
Changing laws without any public debate
Social media manipulation
And it's extremely sophisticated
Did most people under 25 start supporting the trans cause because they were all visited individually by the slua sÃ. ? Or was it structured and funded and executed ?
Where do all these trans people meet to come up with this agenda? Do they crossover with the people who come up with the gay agenda? Do they make notes on the meetings? I'd like to see them
So would I.
I woukd also like to meet who funds the Israel lobby.
What has the Israel lobby got to do with this? Why bring them up? You were on about the fictional trans agenda.
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 05:16:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
do bathrooms have a lock on them ?
Of course there's no problem because there's f$ck all transgender people around another storm in a tea cup .
Stalls have a lock, of course. Sinks areas no.
However, given the relatively young, liberal, profile of the people who would frequent where I work, you're probably hell of a lot more likely to have openly trans people about than most places.
And still no problems.
Part of that is, I'm sure, the fact that no one is looking to create problems or controversy where they don't exist.
any urinals in these bathrooms or all stalls ?
Is this a serious question?
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 05:16:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
do bathrooms have a lock on them ?
Of course there's no problem because there's f$ck all transgender people around another storm in a tea cup .
Stalls have a lock, of course. Sinks areas no.
However, given the relatively young, liberal, profile of the people who would frequent where I work, you're probably hell of a lot more likely to have openly trans people about than most places.
And still no problems.
Part of that is, I'm sure, the fact that no one is looking to create problems or controversy where they don't exist.
any urinals in these bathrooms or all stalls ?
Is this a serious question?
yes
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 05:16:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
do bathrooms have a lock on them ?
Of course there's no problem because there's f$ck all transgender people around another storm in a tea cup .
Stalls have a lock, of course. Sinks areas no.
However, given the relatively young, liberal, profile of the people who would frequent where I work, you're probably hell of a lot more likely to have openly trans people about than most places.
And still no problems.
Part of that is, I'm sure, the fact that no one is looking to create problems or controversy where they don't exist.
any urinals in these bathrooms or all stalls ?
Is this a serious question?
yes
Ok then.
Yes, the men's bathrooms do.
Transgender men are free to use those bathrooms.
The words "the Trans agenda" is like the DUP at their finest
Pesky Catholics looking for their rights, pesky blacks, and pesky trans people
Dangerous f**kers all, putting us white, straight Prods in danger simply by demanding rights
The natural hierarchy, with the white straight Protestant man at the top, is being disturbed
For shame, for shame
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 05:16:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
do bathrooms have a lock on them ?
Of course there's no problem because there's f$ck all transgender people around another storm in a tea cup .
Stalls have a lock, of course. Sinks areas no.
However, given the relatively young, liberal, profile of the people who would frequent where I work, you're probably hell of a lot more likely to have openly trans people about than most places.
And still no problems.
Part of that is, I'm sure, the fact that no one is looking to create problems or controversy where they don't exist.
any urinals in these bathrooms or all stalls ?
Is this a serious question?
yes
Ok then.
Yes, the men's bathrooms do.
Transgender men are free to use those bathrooms.
ok so you have men's women's and a sign on outside of other bathroom with all sexes on it and it has a toilet and sink . Have used that myself when needed .
If you are born a woman but feel you are male but haven't had any surgery done if you go to men's toilet then you are probably going to use stall anyway same the other way around as there are no urinals in women's toilets so it's all a big fuss about nothing nobody is stamping on anyone's rights it's all garbage. Have the extra toilet problem solved .
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 11:12:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 06:56:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2021, 05:16:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 23, 2021, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 14, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Trans is a really interesting one. I haven't studied much of it granted but there does seem to be a huge spectrum of people who fall into the trans basket. This causes an issue. From my own perspective and as the Father of a girl I definitely don't want some man with a c**k and balls using ladies changing room / toilets and being able to claim that they are trans.
Getting into an argument on Twitter with them is of course the road to no town. They're massively represented and seem to be able to call on a fairly large army of warriors as Lineham and Rowling have found out.
Have fraudulent claims of trans identity to facilitate sexual assault or leering or whatever in women's bathrooms been a major or even minor problem yet?
We've been hearing about this risk for much of the past decade as the issues of transsexual people have attracted public awareness.
How do these incidents of assault compare to the assault of transwomen who are forced to use men's facilities?
Fair enough, but I would feel uncomfortable should that avenue be left open.
I'm open to hearing arguments and listening to other viewpoints but if you're a man, you're a man and if you're a woman you're a woman. You can be transitioning but you're a man transitioning to a woman and vice versa. I think that has to be made clear. Of course people should be free to make their own choices without prejudice but also people should be allowed to hold a traditional viewpoint around gender without being called transphobic.
What do you mean "it has to be made clear"? By whom and to whom? Based on what?
There's nothing clear about any of this, beyond the fact that it is a difficult issue which is emerging after people historically had to live repressed, secret lives. Biology is a complicated thing and traits and characteristics don't always fall into neat pigeonholes. And transexuality is obviously not the first issue of human dignity and worth that society has to had to evolve on in recent decades.
As an aside, I've been working for several years now at a large institution which permits people to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify with.
We're talking tens of thousands of people in and out of these bathrooms.
Have yet to hear of any problems.
do bathrooms have a lock on them ?
Of course there's no problem because there's f$ck all transgender people around another storm in a tea cup .
Stalls have a lock, of course. Sinks areas no.
However, given the relatively young, liberal, profile of the people who would frequent where I work, you're probably hell of a lot more likely to have openly trans people about than most places.
And still no problems.
Part of that is, I'm sure, the fact that no one is looking to create problems or controversy where they don't exist.
any urinals in these bathrooms or all stalls ?
Is this a serious question?
yes
Ok then.
Yes, the men's bathrooms do.
Transgender men are free to use those bathrooms.
ok so you have men's women's and a sign on outside of other bathroom with all sexes on it and it has a toilet and sink . Have used that myself when needed .
If you are born a woman but feel you are male but haven't had any surgery done if you go to men's toilet then you are probably going to use stall anyway same the other way around as there are no urinals in women's toilets so it's all a big fuss about nothing nobody is stamping on anyone's rights it's all garbage. Have the extra toilet problem solved .
Yep. Absolutely no need for all the drama over this issue.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:33:27 PM
The words "the Trans agenda" is like the DUP at their finest
Pesky Catholics looking for their rights, pesky blacks, and pesky trans people
Dangerous f**kers all, putting us white, straight Prods in danger simply by demanding rights
The natural hierarchy, with the white straight Protestant man at the top, is being disturbed
For shame, for shame
So giving the parents of one of the Northern posters the same rights as Protestants is the same as legalising puberting blocking drugs for teenagers and rendering them infertile in the name of ideology?
Or is f**king up womens' sport OK becuase the Dubs also did it in mens gah?
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2021, 07:46:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:33:27 PM
The words "the Trans agenda" is like the DUP at their finest
Pesky Catholics looking for their rights, pesky blacks, and pesky trans people
Dangerous f**kers all, putting us white, straight Prods in danger simply by demanding rights
The natural hierarchy, with the white straight Protestant man at the top, is being disturbed
For shame, for shame
So giving the parents of one of the Northern posters the same rights as Protestants is the same as legalising puberting blocking drugs for teenagers and rendering them infertile in the name of ideology?
Or is f**king up womens' sport OK becuase the Dubs also did it in mens gah?
Those against the rights of the "wrong" kind of people always use fear to demonise them
Good example here
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2021, 07:55:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2021, 07:46:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:33:27 PM
The words "the Trans agenda" is like the DUP at their finest
Pesky Catholics looking for their rights, pesky blacks, and pesky trans people
Dangerous f**kers all, putting us white, straight Prods in danger simply by demanding rights
The natural hierarchy, with the white straight Protestant man at the top, is being disturbed
For shame, for shame
So giving the parents of one of the Northern posters the same rights as Protestants is the same as legalising puberting blocking drugs for teenagers and rendering them infertile in the name of ideology?
Or is f**king up womens' sport OK becuase the Dubs also did it in mens gah?
Those against the rights of the "wrong" kind of people always use fear to demonise them
Good example here
Sport one a big no no for me. If you were born a man you shouldn't be competing in women's sport. End of.
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:33:27 PM
The words "the Trans agenda" is like the DUP at their finest
Pesky Catholics looking for their rights, pesky blacks, and pesky trans people
Dangerous f**kers all, putting us white, straight Prods in danger simply by demanding rights
The natural hierarchy, with the white straight Protestant man at the top, is being disturbed
For shame, for shame
Agreed. It's always the ones who have had their rights trampled on that have an agenda
Quote from: sid waddell on February 24, 2021, 07:55:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2021, 07:46:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:33:27 PM
The words "the Trans agenda" is like the DUP at their finest
Pesky Catholics looking for their rights, pesky blacks, and pesky trans people
Dangerous f**kers all, putting us white, straight Prods in danger simply by demanding rights
The natural hierarchy, with the white straight Protestant man at the top, is being disturbed
For shame, for shame
So giving the parents of one of the Northern posters the same rights as Protestants is the same as legalising puberting blocking drugs for teenagers and rendering them infertile in the name of ideology?
Or is f**king up womens' sport OK becuase the Dubs also did it in mens gah?
Those against the rights of the "wrong" kind of people always use fear to demonise them
Good example here
I am not sure that the trans activist model benefits many ordinary trans people who are more likely to live in poverty.
I used to live in India and trans have been accepted for centuries. They don't claim to be women. They say they are a third sex and they have a place in society. There's no doxxing. There is no imposing on women.
Western christianity persecuted trans people and now Western society is trying to catch up with more tolerant societies but it might need a few iterations.
https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/full-text-of-my-house-of-lords-statement
A lot of valid points, it's such a poisonous subject area online that most people avoid it. I would be pretty sure his opinions are more reflective of society in general than the Twitter echo chamber that finally got him ostracised.
It's the same ideology that you witness in the whole Israel/Palestine debate.
You cannot begin to question the theories lest you be labelled antisemitic (or transphobic in this case)
Therefore, as you say benny, most people keep their views to themselves
An anonymous vote on the topic would be interesting
It's very like Zionism. Disadvantaged minority allies with power and imposes on others who never consented.
But I wonder how sustainable it is.
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
It's very like Zionism. Disadvantaged minority allies with power and imposes on others who never consented.
But I wonder how sustainable it is.
What exactly are you comparing to Zionism here
In law (or about to be) it's now considered anti semitic to be critical of the zionist policies of the israeli government.
For instance SNL poked satire at the zionists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjBGlH7aKLo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjBGlH7aKLo)
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 10, 2021, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
It's very like Zionism. Disadvantaged minority allies with power and imposes on others who never consented.
But I wonder how sustainable it is.
What exactly are you comparing to Zionism here
Trans activists
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2021, 05:54:19 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 10, 2021, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
It's very like Zionism. Disadvantaged minority allies with power and imposes on others who never consented.
But I wonder how sustainable it is.
What exactly are you comparing to Zionism here
Trans activists
You need help
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2021, 05:14:37 PM
In law (or about to be) it's now considered anti semitic to be critical of the zionist policies of the israeli government.
For instance SNL poked satire at the zionists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjBGlH7aKLo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjBGlH7aKLo)
Said it before on here.
The IHRA definition of antisemitism does not allow room for criticism of Israel. The fact that it has been officially adopted by so many organisations and nation states says a lot about the power of the Israeli lobby.
Surely the bookies favourite....
But we have to accept this or else we're transphobes.
https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/athletes-told-to-be-quiet-about-transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-olympics-tilt-c-2795167
It's school sport rather than the Olympics, but this comment from Caitlyn Jenner last week was interesting:
Caitlyn Jenner, a former Olympic gold medal winner and transgender activist, said on Sunday she did not support trans girls competing in female school sports as world sporting bodies debate whether trans women hold an unfair advantage.
Jenner, 71, said trans girls should not be allowed to compete in sports with other girls as it "just isn't fair."
"This is a question of fairness. That's why I oppose biological boys who are trans competing in girls' sports in school. It just isn't fair," Jenner told entertainment media outlet TMZ.
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/caitlyn-jenner-opposes-trans-girls-competing-female-school-sports-1.6011336 (https://www.cbc.ca/sports/caitlyn-jenner-opposes-trans-girls-competing-female-school-sports-1.6011336)
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 10, 2021, 10:35:09 PM
It's school sport rather than the Olympics, but this comment from Caitlyn Jenner last week was interesting:
Caitlyn Jenner, a former Olympic gold medal winner and transgender activist, said on Sunday she did not support trans girls competing in female school sports as world sporting bodies debate whether trans women hold an unfair advantage.
Jenner, 71, said trans girls should not be allowed to compete in sports with other girls as it "just isn't fair."
"This is a question of fairness. That's why I oppose biological boys who are trans competing in girls' sports in school. It just isn't fair," Jenner told entertainment media outlet TMZ.
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/caitlyn-jenner-opposes-trans-girls-competing-female-school-sports-1.6011336 (https://www.cbc.ca/sports/caitlyn-jenner-opposes-trans-girls-competing-female-school-sports-1.6011336)
There was a discussion about this at the end of the crowd science prog on BBCWS https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct1pqb where it was put that the muscles and other parts of the body are not exactly aware of the switch from male to female and retain much of the male factor.
Quote from: Main Street on May 11, 2021, 12:59:30 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 10, 2021, 10:35:09 PM
It's school sport rather than the Olympics, but this comment from Caitlyn Jenner last week was interesting:
Caitlyn Jenner, a former Olympic gold medal winner and transgender activist, said on Sunday she did not support trans girls competing in female school sports as world sporting bodies debate whether trans women hold an unfair advantage.
Jenner, 71, said trans girls should not be allowed to compete in sports with other girls as it "just isn't fair."
"This is a question of fairness. That's why I oppose biological boys who are trans competing in girls' sports in school. It just isn't fair," Jenner told entertainment media outlet TMZ.
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/caitlyn-jenner-opposes-trans-girls-competing-female-school-sports-1.6011336 (https://www.cbc.ca/sports/caitlyn-jenner-opposes-trans-girls-competing-female-school-sports-1.6011336)
There was a discussion about this at the end of the crowd science prog on BBCWS https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct1pqb where it was put that the muscles and other parts of the body are not exactly aware of the switch from male to female and retain much of the male factor.
Those muscles are obviously transphobic and should be removed.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 11, 2021, 01:11:17 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 11, 2021, 12:59:30 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 10, 2021, 10:35:09 PM
It's school sport rather than the Olympics, but this comment from Caitlyn Jenner last week was interesting:
Caitlyn Jenner, a former Olympic gold medal winner and transgender activist, said on Sunday she did not support trans girls competing in female school sports as world sporting bodies debate whether trans women hold an unfair advantage.
Jenner, 71, said trans girls should not be allowed to compete in sports with other girls as it "just isn't fair."
"This is a question of fairness. That's why I oppose biological boys who are trans competing in girls' sports in school. It just isn't fair," Jenner told entertainment media outlet TMZ.
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/caitlyn-jenner-opposes-trans-girls-competing-female-school-sports-1.6011336 (https://www.cbc.ca/sports/caitlyn-jenner-opposes-trans-girls-competing-female-school-sports-1.6011336)
There was a discussion about this at the end of the crowd science prog on BBCWS https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct1pqb where it was put that the muscles and other parts of the body are not exactly aware of the switch from male to female and retain much of the male factor.
Those muscles are obviously transphobic and should be removed.
In this matter the muscles are objective, they don't care about phobias as such.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on May 10, 2021, 10:01:32 PM
Surely the bookies favourite....
But we have to accept this or else we're transphobes.
https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/athletes-told-to-be-quiet-about-transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-olympics-tilt-c-2795167
hopefully this guy wins at 43 then people might come around to reality a bit .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalen_Berns
Sweden ends use of puberty blockers.
https://segm.org/Sweden_ends_use_of_Dutch_protocol
Quote from: Gmac on May 11, 2021, 02:25:20 AM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on May 10, 2021, 10:01:32 PM
Surely the bookies favourite....
But we have to accept this or else we're transphobes.
https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/athletes-told-to-be-quiet-about-transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-olympics-tilt-c-2795167
hopefully this guy wins at 43 then people might come around to reality a bit .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653)
This is f**king stupid. Someone needs to shout stop before this gets out of hand. What next? David Clifford donning a wig and lining out for Kerry Ladies?
From a trans strategy point of view, this is going to be counterproductive.
Most people don't pay attention to the trans issue but this is obviously unfair.
Quote from: trailer on June 21, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 11, 2021, 02:25:20 AM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on May 10, 2021, 10:01:32 PM
Surely the bookies favourite....
But we have to accept this or else we're transphobes.
https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/athletes-told-to-be-quiet-about-transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-olympics-tilt-c-2795167
hopefully this guy wins at 43 then people might come around to reality a bit .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653)
This is f**king stupid. Someone needs to shout stop before this gets out of hand. What next? David Clifford donning a wig and lining out for Kerry Ladies?
Oh yeah, that'll definitely happen, just like millions of people move to Ireland every year and "swamp" us because we're part of the EU
Quote from: sid waddell on June 21, 2021, 11:05:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 21, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 11, 2021, 02:25:20 AM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on May 10, 2021, 10:01:32 PM
Surely the bookies favourite....
But we have to accept this or else we're transphobes.
https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/athletes-told-to-be-quiet-about-transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-olympics-tilt-c-2795167
hopefully this guy wins at 43 then people might come around to reality a bit .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653)
This is f**king stupid. Someone needs to shout stop before this gets out of hand. What next? David Clifford donning a wig and lining out for Kerry Ladies?
Oh yeah, that'll definitely happen, just like millions of people move to Ireland every year and "swamp" us because we're part of the EU
Sid, and I honestly ask this, what the f**k are you on about?
Quote from: trailer on June 21, 2021, 11:15:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 21, 2021, 11:05:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 21, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 11, 2021, 02:25:20 AM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on May 10, 2021, 10:01:32 PM
Surely the bookies favourite....
But we have to accept this or else we're transphobes.
https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/athletes-told-to-be-quiet-about-transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-olympics-tilt-c-2795167
hopefully this guy wins at 43 then people might come around to reality a bit .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653)
This is f**king stupid. Someone needs to shout stop before this gets out of hand. What next? David Clifford donning a wig and lining out for Kerry Ladies?
Oh yeah, that'll definitely happen, just like millions of people move to Ireland every year and "swamp" us because we're part of the EU
Sid, and I honestly ask this, what the f**k are you on about?
If you can't work it out I can't help you
Quote from: sid waddell on June 21, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 21, 2021, 11:15:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 21, 2021, 11:05:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 21, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 11, 2021, 02:25:20 AM
Quote from: Ash Smoker on May 10, 2021, 10:01:32 PM
Surely the bookies favourite....
But we have to accept this or else we're transphobes.
https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/athletes-told-to-be-quiet-about-transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-olympics-tilt-c-2795167
hopefully this guy wins at 43 then people might come around to reality a bit .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-57549653)
This is f**king stupid. Someone needs to shout stop before this gets out of hand. What next? David Clifford donning a wig and lining out for Kerry Ladies?
Oh yeah, that'll definitely happen, just like millions of people move to Ireland every year and "swamp" us because we're part of the EU
Sid, and I honestly ask this, what the f**k are you on about?
If you can't work it out I can't help you
OK, lay of the glue for a while.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/issue-of-transgender-athletes-sees-rights-on-safety-and-inclusion-collide-1.4602740
Issue of transgender athletes sees rights on safety and inclusion collide
How can safety of cisgender women be ensured when it comes to contact sports?
about 5 hours ago Updated: about an hour ago
Johnny Watterson
New Zealand's Laurel Hubbard will become the first transgender athlete to compete against cisgender women at the Olympic Games. Photograph: Adrian Dennis/AFP via Getty Images
New Zealand's Laurel Hubbard will become the first transgender athlete to compete against cisgender women at the Olympic Games. Photograph: Adrian Dennis/AFP via Getty Images
We've been trying to educate ourselves this week by listening to sports scientist Ross Tucker. Tucker has worked with World Rugby and other organisations as a science and research consultant.
His views are always reasoned, aired on the podcast The Science of Sport and are based on current research, some of which he has conducted himself.
The clarity Tucker brings to explain complex subject matter such as the issue of transgender athletes is never less than convincing and always science based.
The difficulty is in defining male and female in the competitive sports construct. The social construct is entirely different
Recently, he picked up on the transgender subject again as it has been brought into sharp focus by 43-year-old Laurel Hubbard, who was recently included in New Zealand's female weight-lifting team and drew international attention and divided opinion.
Hubbard was born a male and used to compete in men's weight-lifting competitions before transitioning in 2012. She will become the first transgender athlete to compete against cisgender (gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth) women at the Olympic Games.
The decision has thrown up a number of colliding rights around fairness, safety and inclusion. In weight-lifting it is largely about fairness and inclusion. When other sports come into play such as rugby and boxing it seems likely there will also be an important consideration of duty of care.
The difficulty is in defining male and female in the competitive sports construct. The social construct is entirely different. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) currently requires Hubbard to reduce testosterone levels to below a level of 10 nmol/L for 12 months in order to be eligible for women's competition. The level of testosterone in male athletes fluctuates but is often many times 10.
What has been constantly pointed out is that sport has to be segregated into male and female, otherwise women would never appear at events like the Olympic Games
It is worth noting the nature and magnitude of male advantage in sport. On the track and in the swimming pool, men are about 10 per cent faster. Measure power output and men come in at 30 per cent higher. For upper body strength, male advantage comes in at between 30 and 60 per cent.
A study by researchers at the University of Utah in 2020 found that despite approximately similar levels of fitness, the average power of a male during the motion of punching was 162 per cent greater than females. This held good even for the least-powerful man in the study, who proved to be stronger than the most powerful woman.
The male and female bodies are built differently to carry out different functions. Neither is better or worse than the other. Better or worse don't belong in the conversation.
What has been constantly pointed out is that sport has to be segregated into male and female, otherwise women would never appear at events like the Olympic Games or world championships. With no division, women in competitive sport would vanish.
Tucker speaks of Elaine Thompson, the Jamaican track and field sprinter, who rose to prominence at the 2016 Rio Olympics, completing a sprint double to win gold in the 100 metres (10.71 s) and the 200 metres (21.78 s). But that year she was outperformed by 1,826 men and boys including 14-year-old sprinters.
So, the theory goes reduce Hubbard's testosterone levels in order to make her compliant with IOC regulations and that will solve the problem. But it is not so straightforward.
Research, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine just over six months ago, found that before soldiers in the US Air Force started their hormone treatment trans women performed 31 per cent more push-ups and 15 per cent more sit-ups in one minute on average than cisgender women younger than 30. They were also able to run 1.5 miles 21 per cent faster.
After suppressing their testosterone for two years, which is a year longer than the IOC requires, they were still 12 per cent faster on average than biological females. Given races are won and lost by percentile fractions that is a telling gap.
The idea that reducing testosterone for 12 months will level the playing field appears not to be based on any current research. What studies have actually been showing is the changes that happen when males go through puberty are not entirely reversible.
What is the IOC going to say to cisgender women in contact sports such as judo and taekwondo?
Those larger lungs and heart don't dramatically shrink, the stronger tendons and greater muscle mass don't weaken, the denser bones and the lower body fat don't reduce to cisgender levels.
In weight-lifting, Hubbard might not win the gold medal but nor would the man in the street beat Thompson over 100m. The point is the man on the street and Hubbard start the weight-lifting competition and the foot race with an advantage given only to males who have gone through puberty.
But when this wagon trundles further down the road and more transgender athletes come into sport, who is going to protect cisgender women involved in boxing from opponents whose punching power could be twice theirs?
What is the IOC going to say to cisgender women in contact sports such as judo and taekwondo? In Sevens rugby what will they tell cisgender women about what to expect in collisions, what will they say about their safety and the disparity in strength and speed they may have to face?
Whose rights are being curtailed, those on the pitch whose right is to feel safe playing rugby or boxing, or those of a vulnerable transgender athlete who also has rights to not face discrimination?
The IOC has suggested federations sort it out. Given how athletics disrespectfully handled Caster Semenya (not a transgender issue), confidence is far from soaring.
The "Johnny Watterson is a terf transphobe" comments will be along shortly.
Fallon Fox is trans self identifying as a woman in MMA.
There were loads of TERFs in the audience.
https://youtu.be/Eg9zeQhsFmU
Manna from heaven for Linehan and the lads.
BBC News - Rapist guilty of attacking women before gender change
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64388669
Quote from: bennydorano on January 24, 2023, 11:24:14 PM
Manna from heaven for Linehan and the lads.
BBC News - Rapist guilty of attacking women before gender change
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64388669
Why?
He's had some time of it since getting back on Twitter - averaging over a 100 tweets a day since he got back on there.
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2023, 01:50:03 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 24, 2023, 11:24:14 PM
Manna from heaven for Linehan and the lads.
BBC News - Rapist guilty of attacking women before gender change
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64388669
Why?
A lot of his Spiel is that a lot of trans activity is nefarious, a cover for men to harm women, damaging womens safe places, womens rights- among a helluva lot of other things. The linked article is exactly the type of thing he says is widespread. (I recently stopped following him again as his incessant posting was pissing me off, must have a look at his reaction to this).
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
A trans claiming to be a woman was recently executed for the rape and murder of a woman in the US .
In prisons trans have the higher proportion of violent sex offenders. They are skewing the stats for women.
3% of "women" in prison now are rapists but women don't have the equipment.
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Not in the stats. Trans is about changing gender. It's easy to do so it makes sense in prison where you get less overcrowding plus access to the henhouse.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
Quote from: seafoid on January 25, 2023, 09:07:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Not in the stats. Trans is about changing gender. It's easy to do so it makes sense in prison where you get less overcrowding plus access to the henhouse.
You're a bad bad man, this made me laugh out loud at work.
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
Sex and Gender are 2 different things
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21#:~:text=The%20World%20Health%20Organisation%20regional,expression%2C%20and%20how%20they%20behave.
Sex and gender are terms that are often used interchangeably but they are in fact two different concepts, even though for many people their sex and gender are the same. This article will clarify the differences between sex and gender and why these differences are important to understand, especially in research and data collection. How and why sex and gender is important for SDGs and the principle of "leave no one behind" will be considered. It includes the UK government position on these concepts. ONS has done a lot of research and participated in discussions to understand these terms.
2.Definitions and differences
The UK government defines sex as:
referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions
generally male or female
something that is assigned at birth
The UK government defines gender as:
a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth
where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman
The World Health Organisation regional office for Europe describes sex as characteristics that are biologically defined, whereas gender is based on socially constructed features. They recognise that there are variations in how people experience gender based upon self-perception and expression, and how they behave.
Essentially, nearly all people are born with physical characteristics that are labelled male or female. In 1964, Robert Stoller1 coined the term gender identity, which refers to an individual's personal concept about their gender and how they feel inside. It is a deeply held internal sense of self and is typically self-identified. Gender identity differs from sexual identity and is not related to an individual's sexual orientation (for more information, see the Terminology page of the Gender Identity Research and Education Society). As such, the gender category with which a person identifies may not match the sex they were assigned at birth.
Gender is increasingly understood as not binary but on a spectrum. Growing numbers of people are identifying as somewhere along a continuum between man and woman, or as non-gendered (neither man nor woman) (see Gender Spectrum). Therefore, they often have their own words to describe themselves rather than using pre-defined categories of male and female (for more information, see Gender Identity Workshop, Summary of Discussions). While more people are identifying as non-binary, this is not a new concept and has existed for many years across different cultures around the world.
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
Sex and Gender are 2 different things
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21#:~:text=The%20World%20Health%20Organisation%20regional,expression%2C%20and%20how%20they%20behave.
Sex and gender are terms that are often used interchangeably but they are in fact two different concepts, even though for many people their sex and gender are the same. This article will clarify the differences between sex and gender and why these differences are important to understand, especially in research and data collection. How and why sex and gender is important for SDGs and the principle of "leave no one behind" will be considered. It includes the UK government position on these concepts. ONS has done a lot of research and participated in discussions to understand these terms.
2.Definitions and differences
The UK government defines sex as:
referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions
generally male or female
something that is assigned at birth
The UK government defines gender as:
a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth
where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman
The World Health Organisation regional office for Europe describes sex as characteristics that are biologically defined, whereas gender is based on socially constructed features. They recognise that there are variations in how people experience gender based upon self-perception and expression, and how they behave.
Essentially, nearly all people are born with physical characteristics that are labelled male or female. In 1964, Robert Stoller1 coined the term gender identity, which refers to an individual's personal concept about their gender and how they feel inside. It is a deeply held internal sense of self and is typically self-identified. Gender identity differs from sexual identity and is not related to an individual's sexual orientation (for more information, see the Terminology page of the Gender Identity Research and Education Society). As such, the gender category with which a person identifies may not match the sex they were assigned at birth.
Gender is increasingly understood as not binary but on a spectrum. Growing numbers of people are identifying as somewhere along a continuum between man and woman, or as non-gendered (neither man nor woman) (see Gender Spectrum). Therefore, they often have their own words to describe themselves rather than using pre-defined categories of male and female (for more information, see Gender Identity Workshop, Summary of Discussions). While more people are identifying as non-binary, this is not a new concept and has existed for many years across different cultures around the world.
Ok then your sex is your sex. If you are a man then you a man. Calling yourself a woman is denying science. Arguing over my use of the terms doesn't negate science.
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
science is always questioned or else we would still believe the earth is the centre of the universe and the sun and other stars rotate around it
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
science is always questioned or else we would still believe the earth is the centre of the universe and the sun and other stars rotate around it
Ack ffs
Cool. There is no such thing as sex.
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
science is always questioned or else we would still believe the earth is the centre of the universe and the sun and other stars rotate around it
Ack ffs
Cool. There is no such thing as sex.
Not what I said is it?
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:34:34 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
science is always questioned or else we would still believe the earth is the centre of the universe and the sun and other stars rotate around it
Ack ffs
Cool. There is no such thing as sex.
Not what I said is it?
You are saying we can question the science around male and female sexes. Is that right?
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 10:41:13 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:34:34 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
science is always questioned or else we would still believe the earth is the centre of the universe and the sun and other stars rotate around it
Ack ffs
Cool. There is no such thing as sex.
Not what I said is it?
You are saying we can question the science around male and female sexes. Is that right?
I am saying you can question science. That's how scientific discoveries are made. That is all. This debate is not one I want to get in to. I am supportive of trans people but recognise people aren't which is fair enough and their choice but I hate to see people being bigoted and transphobic about it
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
Trans is a culture war. There is no scientific basis upon which a man can become a woman.
The idea is to polarise debate and prevent political change. Guns are exactly the same in the US.
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:45:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 10:41:13 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:34:34 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 25, 2023, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 25, 2023, 09:36:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2023, 09:06:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2023, 08:59:12 AM
Unsurprisingly he's all over it. A similar situation in Ohio highlighted as well
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/
Surely if you are a rapists then you are a rapists regardless of gender? Rapists and the like have used the cover of many guises to be in a better position to carry these things out? That's fairly common
Surely if you have a penis your gender is male? And if you have a vagina it is female?
The denial of science is very worrying. Where does the madness end?
I think if you deny the science you are a bigot or something
That is the problem with this debate. Anyone who questions basic science is a hateful bigot.
I don't have a problem with how people dress or the like but their gender is their gender. It is science. Are we questioning science? Is everything we know to be scientifically true up for debate because "feelings"?
science is always questioned or else we would still believe the earth is the centre of the universe and the sun and other stars rotate around it
Ack ffs
Cool. There is no such thing as sex.
Not what I said is it?
You are saying we can question the science around male and female sexes. Is that right?
I am saying you can question science. That's how scientific discoveries are made. That is all. This debate is not one I want to get in to. I am supportive of trans people but recognise people aren't which is fair enough and their choice but I hate to see people being bigoted and transphobic about it
If we threw away or lost all these facts around Sex they would all come back the same in 1000 years. The same scientific tests would be true.
This question everything attitude leads people to Covid isn't real, Finland doesn't exist and a giant paedophile ring runs the world. Some science is true and people need to accept that.
A culture war. Wise up ffs
Many biological traits exist on a spectrum or don't fit into neat pigeon holes. How can those who are so upset by transsexuality be so certain that sex and gender identity don't?
It's a fact that some people are born with ambiguous physical sexual characteristics. Traditionally they've just been assigned one or the other at birth. No sane person denies anymore that some people are born with sexual preferences that depart from the traditional male-attracted-to-female and vice versa "norm". Why is it so beyond the realms of possibility and acceptability that gender identity and physical sexual characteristics are not tied together quite as tightly as we traditionally thought?
Many homosexual people still have to stay in the closet due to prejudice from their families, communities and, even to this day in many places, legal discrimination and repression. Do any of you feel that that is the way things should be? And if not, what if you're wrong about transsexuality? Should your discomfort and prejudice mean that the lives of those people should be limited and repressed to make you feel better? What is it to you if the person down the street gets gender altering surgery or just changes their gender identity without the surgery?
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/isla-bryson-and-the-madness-of-scotlands-gender-bill/
Adam Graham was four years old when, according to his own account of his life, he first began to suspect he might be transgender. 'I was always hanging about with the girls and always doing make up', he said. It was not until he was 29, however, that Graham began to openly identify as a woman, taking hormones and changing his appearance.
By that time he had been arrested and charged with two counts of rape.
It is incredible that the sensitivities of convicted rapists are now the subject of so much official sympathy in Scotland
Appearing in court this week, Graham's new – and putatively 'real' – identity took centre stage. Thus it was Isla Bryson, not Adam Graham, who was convicted of raping one woman in Clydebank in 2016 and another in Drumchapel in 2019.
It should be noted, I think, that in some quarters it is considered 'transphobic' to even note that Isla Bryson was once Adam Graham. Bryson insists that her journey towards her new self is not yet complete: 'I obviously want all the surgery the NHS can provide' she told the court.
Bryson does not appear to have a Gender Recognition Certificate of the sort which has proved so controversial in Scotland. In the future, however, there would have been nothing stopping her from acquiring one prior to her conviction. Scotland's Gender Recognition Reforms will permit such things. Self-identification and an undefined 'commitment' to living in a person's new identity for life is all that will be required. You are who you say you are and it is deeply transphobic to question such assertions.
An amendment to the bill passed last month which would have prevented people charged with rape and other serious sexual offences from changing their gender before trial was rejected by a coalition of SNP, Green and Liberal Democrat MSPs. Had it been accepted, defence counsel would have been unable to mount the kind of case presented during Bryson's trial.
For Bryson's advocate argued that, 'There is no way Isla Bryson could be described as a predatory male' for 'If you accept that evidence, that she is transitioning, that she is aiming to continue on that path to becoming female gender, that goes a long way to acquitting her of these charges'. Bryson's lawyer cannot be blamed for attempting to render a purse out of this sow's ear but this seems a preposterous defence.
Bryson has reportedly been remanded in custody, pending sentencing, at Cornton Vale. Thus, extraordinarily, a convicted male rapist is now housed at a woman's prison (albeit in a 'specialist' unit there). It may be that a risk assessment concludes Bryson could not safely be incarcerated on the male estate but it seems no assessment has been made of the risk Bryson poses to female inmates if housed at Cornton Vale. As a matter of priorities, this seems telling.
There are not many trans prisoners in Scotland so statistics regarding them should be treated with a measure of caution. Nevertheless, it is well-established that trans women criminals fit a male pattern of offending, not a female one. Since they are biologically male this can only surprise those already stupefied by gender woo-woo. Moreover, some 50 per cent of Scottish inmates only discovered their new gender identity after they were charged by police. Bryson now adds to this number. This seems dubiously convenient to the point of being suspicious and it cannot sensibly be thought 'transphobic' to think so. Something is happening here, even if it is considered indecorous to speculate on precisely what is occurring.
In this fashion, trans people with a gender recognition certificate (which currently requires a diagnosis of gender dysphoria) are also victims, tarnished by an association with people claiming to be trans but whose commitment to 'living' in their new sex is, at best, questionable. Self-ID broadens the legal definition of trans but also renders it shallower than ever.
Even without a GRC, the trend is evident. Henceforth there will be few, if any, means by which service providers may distinguish between those with gender dysphoria and those without. Defenders of the bill, including Nicola Sturgeon, argue the problem lies with predatory men, not trans people. This is precisely what its critics have long argued. Maleness, not trans-ness, is the issue. And where once individuals could be excluded from female-only spaces on the grounds of their maleness, now holders of a GRC are to be considered as living in their new sex 'for', as the Scottish government argued in court, 'all purposes'. That being so, it is difficult to see how such persons could be excluded from single-sex areas on the basis of their sex.
Shona Robison, the minister responsible for piloting the bill through the Scottish parliament, inadvertently gave the game away when she noted that, in certain circumstances, someone 'might be a genuine trans woman trying to enter a service that excludes them'. Accepting there are 'genuine' trans people means acknowledging there are 'non-genuine' cases of trans-appropriation too.
Hitherto a distinction could at least be drawn between those with a GRC and those without. Now that a GRC may be acquired by anyone who wishes one, such delineations will be all but impossible. By the Scottish government's own implicit admission, it is entirely rational to think so-called 'bad actors' – in every sense of the term – will exploit the fresh licence the Scottish parliament's legislation grants them. This does not appear to trouble the First Minister.
It is amazing how often 'something which will not happen' does, in fact, occur. It is even more incredible, however, that the sensitivities of convicted rapists are now the subject of so much official sympathy in Scotland. This is a sufficiently hard and ugly truth that it is considered unseemly to note such things. Be that as it may, it is where we now are.
No sensible – or sensitive – person would suggest Isla Bryson is a rapist because Isla Bryson has belatedly discovered their true, trans, identity. Once again and for the benefit of slow-learners, Bryson's maleness is the pertinent issue here.
Notwithstanding that, however, this case poses a dilemma for Sturgeon and her supporters. For them, Bryson's self-identification as trans must be taken at face value – even if this means accepting that a biological male rapist is in fact no different, in essence, to those born biologically female. This is an objectively ridiculous proposition but it is the kind of unreality in which the First Minister and her allies are determined to believe. Those who live by the mantra of identity politics are consequently condemned by the logic of their own beliefs.
Time and time again, Sturgeon and her allies dismissed concerns about the Scottish government's legislation. Male predators, we were told, do not require a GRC to target women. As Bryson's case demonstrates this is plainly true. Yet it requires a touching faith in the decency of such people to assume they will not take advantage of the more liberal provisions and opportunities now open to them. The Scottish government argues its reforms are simultaneously merely an exercise in bureaucratic tidying and a magnificent, even revolutionary, leap forwards. It is not easy to see how both these claims can be true.
Current policy, as demonstrated by this case, is a disaster zone but the Scottish government's proposals will, if ever implemented, make it significantly worse. Throughout this process Sturgeon has airily dismissed any suggestion there might be a clash between 'trans rights' and 'women's rights'. The argument has simply been assumed out of existence. The First Minister shuts down discussion with the blunt declaration her critics' views are 'not valid'.
But as this case – and its portents for the future – demonstrates, those concerns could scarcely be more pertinent or more valid. Ultimately, this is a disagreement between fantasists and realists and it is deplorable to realise that the majority of Scottish parliamentarians are signed-up members of the fantasy club. Well, they cannot pretend they have not been warned of the likely consequences which flow from their delusions. This is meagre comfort but in mad times such scraps of consolation are all that is available.
Kilmacud Crokes identify as a 15 a side football team.
What happens when there are more men in the women's jails than women? Scotland has lost the run of itself.
So it's all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women's swimming medals?
What about women transitioning into men?
Are they ok?
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2023, 02:07:52 PM
Many biological traits exist on a spectrum or don't fit into neat pigeon holes. How can those who are so upset by transsexuality be so certain that sex and gender identity don't?
It's a fact that some people are born with ambiguous physical sexual characteristics. Traditionally they've just been assigned one or the other at birth. No sane person denies anymore that some people are born with sexual preferences that depart from the traditional male-attracted-to-female and vice versa "norm". Why is it so beyond the realms of possibility and acceptability that gender identity and physical sexual characteristics are not tied together quite as tightly as we traditionally thought?
Many homosexual people still have to stay in the closet due to prejudice from their families, communities and, even to this day in many places, legal discrimination and repression. Do any of you feel that that is the way things should be? And if not, what if you're wrong about transsexuality? Should your discomfort and prejudice mean that the lives of those people should be limited and repressed to make you feel better? What is it to you if the person down the street gets gender altering surgery or just changes their gender identity without the surgery?
If you look at the constituents of the trans community, a very small minority are transsexual. And if you look at what happened at the Tavistock clinic in London, most of the girls were either lesbian or autistic.
Most of the men in prison claiming to be female are either sex offenders or opportunists.
And a lot of the men not in prison who claim to be women are AGP, who get turned on by pretending to be women in female spaces. "Autogynephilia is defined as a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female. It is the paraphilia that is theorized to underlie transvestism and some forms of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism."
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 03:33:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2023, 02:07:52 PM
Many biological traits exist on a spectrum or don't fit into neat pigeon holes. How can those who are so upset by transsexuality be so certain that sex and gender identity don't?
It's a fact that some people are born with ambiguous physical sexual characteristics. Traditionally they've just been assigned one or the other at birth. No sane person denies anymore that some people are born with sexual preferences that depart from the traditional male-attracted-to-female and vice versa "norm". Why is it so beyond the realms of possibility and acceptability that gender identity and physical sexual characteristics are not tied together quite as tightly as we traditionally thought?
Many homosexual people still have to stay in the closet due to prejudice from their families, communities and, even to this day in many places, legal discrimination and repression. Do any of you feel that that is the way things should be? And if not, what if you're wrong about transsexuality? Should your discomfort and prejudice mean that the lives of those people should be limited and repressed to make you feel better? What is it to you if the person down the street gets gender altering surgery or just changes their gender identity without the surgery?
If you look at the constituents of the trans community, a very small minority are transsexual. And if you look at what happened at the Tavistock clinic in London, most of the girls were either lesbian or autistic.
Most of the men in prison claiming to be female are either sex offenders or opportunists.
And a lot of the men not in prison who claim to be women are AGP, who get turned on by pretending to be women in female spaces. "Autogynephilia is defined as a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female. It is the paraphilia that is theorized to underlie transvestism and some forms of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism."
Where is your evidence for any of these claims?
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2023, 12:46:58 AM
So it's all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women's swimming medals?
What about women transitioning into men?
Are they ok?
In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it's a fraud
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 26, 2023, 07:47:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 03:33:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 25, 2023, 02:07:52 PM
Many biological traits exist on a spectrum or don't fit into neat pigeon holes. How can those who are so upset by transsexuality be so certain that sex and gender identity don't?
It's a fact that some people are born with ambiguous physical sexual characteristics. Traditionally they've just been assigned one or the other at birth. No sane person denies anymore that some people are born with sexual preferences that depart from the traditional male-attracted-to-female and vice versa "norm". Why is it so beyond the realms of possibility and acceptability that gender identity and physical sexual characteristics are not tied together quite as tightly as we traditionally thought?
Many homosexual people still have to stay in the closet due to prejudice from their families, communities and, even to this day in many places, legal discrimination and repression. Do any of you feel that that is the way things should be? And if not, what if you're wrong about transsexuality? Should your discomfort and prejudice mean that the lives of those people should be limited and repressed to make you feel better? What is it to you if the person down the street gets gender altering surgery or just changes their gender identity without the surgery?
If you look at the constituents of the trans community, a very small minority are transsexual. And if you look at what happened at the Tavistock clinic in London, most of the girls were either lesbian or autistic.
Most of the men in prison claiming to be female are either sex offenders or opportunists.
And a lot of the men not in prison who claim to be women are AGP, who get turned on by pretending to be women in female spaces. "Autogynephilia is defined as a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female. It is the paraphilia that is theorized to underlie transvestism and some forms of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism."
Where is your evidence for any of these claims?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/22/girls-dont-like-dolls-treated-transgender-claims-tavistock-clinic/Girls who don't like dolls are treated as transgender, claims Tavistock clinic whistleblower
Dr David Bell, the NHS trust's former governor, said under Stonewall's influence, clinicians believe it is the 'only acceptable explanation'
ByHayley Dixon, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT22 November 2021 • 5:40pm
NHS services treat girls who "don't like pink ribbons and dollies" as if they have been born in the wrong body, a Tavistock whistleblower has warned.
Dr David Bell, a former governor at the gender identity NHS trust, said that under the influence of political lobby groups such as Stonewall, clinicians believe that the "only acceptable explanation" for a range of complex issues is that a young person is transgender.
The consultant psychiatrist described his former employer, the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust, as a "gateway to puberty blockers", which put children and young people on the path of a lifetime of medical treatment.
Around 98 per cent of teenagers who were put on to puberty blockers went on to take cross sex hormones, he added.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/22/girls-dont-like-dolls-treated-transgender-claims-tavistock-clinic
Dr Bell said that rapid progression to drugs and even surgery in the NHS was "a form of conversion therapy" as with "proper" treatment, many of the children would go on to be gay or lesbian.
Ian McLean #FBSI
@embradon
·
May 10
Replying to
@tribunaltweets
"Bodies are not inherently male or female". Dear God. It's like the flat earth mob.
61 MPs seemingly unaware of profound lack of knowledge regarding U18s gender-related distress. The steep increase in referrals. Why 2/3 are teenage girls, or 35% have mild to severe autistic traits, or majority are same sex attracted. Over-rep of looked after children 3/
ripx4nutmeg
@ripx4nutmeg
·
May 30
A new UK report finds that 60% of male prisoners who say they 'identify' as women were convicted of a sexual offence. It also finds that 1.8% of recent rape defendants were classed as 'women' - even though every rape defendant has a penis
AGP
https://mobile.twitter.com/FourthWaver/status/1592877146749403138
A small minority of trans people are genuinely transexual but a lot have been pressganged because they are gay/ austistic/ traumatised and there is a large pervert component.
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 26, 2023, 07:57:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2023, 12:46:58 AM
So it's all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women's swimming medals?
What about women transitioning into men?
Are they ok?
In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it's a fraud
Its a bit extreme to have your todger ripped off to try and get a lesser sentence for rape?
There is a very large trans contingent on line and a large trans lobby. There was no such phenomenon 20 years ago or indeed at any time in the past.
There is no history anywhere of trans people barging into womens toilets or vaginoplasty for men or sex offenders screaming to be sent to the female wings of prisons.
A trans woman was executed in the US recently. This person had raped and murdered a woman.
It's all new. A lot of it seems to have been driven initially by surgical developments.
Gay marriage was different . There have always been gay people at x% of the population. There will always be lesbians.
There has never been a trans population at the current level. Because it's fake.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 09:02:03 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 26, 2023, 07:57:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2023, 12:46:58 AM
So it's all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women's swimming medals?
What about women transitioning into men?
Are they ok?
In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it's a fraud
Its a bit extreme to have your todger ripped off to try and get a lesser sentence for rape?
No Todgers getting ripped off, you just say you feel you are a woman now. That's the problem in Scotland now, it's all about self identification
A load of woke shite. People have lost the f**king run of themselves. Men in Women's prisons, Men competing in Women's sports. One Trans lunatic said he'd be happy to see Floyd Mayweather fight a woman in the ring if he "identified" as a woman. Like christ on a bike. The silent majority need to shout stop.
Transition all you want. But if you were born male then expect to be treated as a male.
I see Enoch Burke isn't the only narrow minded bigot in Ireland ::)
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 26, 2023, 07:57:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2023, 12:46:58 AM
So it's all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women's swimming medals?
What about women transitioning into men?
Are they ok?
In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it's a fraud
Well yeah, but that wasn't the question.
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 26, 2023, 09:45:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 09:02:03 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 26, 2023, 07:57:27 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2023, 12:46:58 AM
So it's all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women's swimming medals?
What about women transitioning into men?
Are they ok?
In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it's a fraud
Its a bit extreme to have your todger ripped off to try and get a lesser sentence for rape?
No Todgers getting ripped off, you just say you feel you are a woman now. That's the problem in Scotland now, it's all about self identification
So they ain't transitioning physically, just in their head they are and to get a lesser sentence? or stay in a women's prison so they can talk about babies all day, cause that all they do ;) I'd rather serve my time in a mans prison than listen to that all day!
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:36:42 AM
There is a very large trans contingent on line and a large trans lobby. There was no such phenomenon 20 years ago or indeed at any time in the past.
There is no history anywhere of trans people barging into womens toilets or vaginoplasty for men or sex offenders screaming to be sent to the female wings of prisons.
A trans woman was executed in the US recently. This person had raped and murdered a woman.
It's all new. A lot of it seems to have been driven initially by surgical developments.
Gay marriage was different . There have always been gay people at x% of the population. There will always be lesbians.
There has never been a trans population at the current level. Because it's fake.
How do you know?
Do you know anyone who is trans?
Half the board would be out with the torches and pitchforks going by their talk here. And that's 10-15 years into transsexuality becoming normalized.
What transsexual in their right mind would have had the guts to come out of the closet way back when? In most cases, plain old gay people couldn't do it (especially in Ireland where it was criminalized).
Surgery, in some form, has been around for decades. Al Pacino even tried to rob a bank in a film 50 years ago to try to pay for sex change surgery as it was then know.
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2023, 10:54:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:36:42 AM
There is a very large trans contingent on line and a large trans lobby. There was no such phenomenon 20 years ago or indeed at any time in the past.
There is no history anywhere of trans people barging into womens toilets or vaginoplasty for men or sex offenders screaming to be sent to the female wings of prisons.
A trans woman was executed in the US recently. This person had raped and murdered a woman.
It's all new. A lot of it seems to have been driven initially by surgical developments.
Gay marriage was different . There have always been gay people at x% of the population. There will always be lesbians.
There has never been a trans population at the current level. Because it's fake.
How do you know?
Do you know anyone who is trans?
Half the board would be out with the torches and pitchforks going by their talk here. And that's 10-15 years into transsexuality becoming normalized.
What transsexual in their right mind would have had the guts to come out of the closet way back when? In most cases, plain old gay people couldn't do it (especially in Ireland where it was criminalized).
Surgery, in some form, has been around for decades. Al Pacino even tried to rob a bank in a film 50 years ago to try to pay for sex change surgery as it was then know.
I know one trans person but that has nothing to do with the wider issue. The trans movement is an assault on women's rights. It's also a culture war. Same as guns. Divide and rule.
Surgery has made huge advances in recent years. At the Tavistock, teenage girls with gender dysphoria were fast tracked on to surgery with no therapy offered. Most of them would have been lesbian. This is bullshit.
In the US, trans surgery is a massive moneyspinner.
One of the most prominent trans surgeons in the US is Irish
https://extra.ie/2023/01/02/news/irish-trans-surgery-doctor-patients
Trans is very different to gay rights. Gay rights don't take away rights from other people. Trans rights do.
Julie Bindel discovered that abused female teenagers in Blackpool, one of the poorest towns in England, were a huge component of trans female to male at the Tavistock.
https://unherd.com/2023/01/blackpools-forsaken-children/
Blackpool, one of the most deprived parts of England, is rife with child abuse and home to a higher number of convicted child sex offenders than anywhere else in the country. It is thought that predatory men gravitate there to seek out vulnerable children. They don't have to look far — there are three times the national average of children in care in Blackpool.
Claire, who grew up in Blackpool, is working for a charity that supports female victims of male violence. She tells me that the links between the rise in young females being referred to gender identity clinics and the realities of growing up in places like Blackpool are obvious. She cites high levels of poverty and the normalisation of the exploitation of women and girls in the sex trade.
As a child, Claire, who was raised in Blackpool, was subject to men's violence and consequently wanted to "opt out of girlhood". She says: "The option to be removed from the harms of men would be appealing to most survivors. I am furious that we are allowing girls who need care and support to go down irreversible paths."
You raise multiple different issues there seafoid.
1. Women's rights – yes, that is a tough one. There will be women who are afraid to use a restroom where transwomen are allowed, especially with all the fear mongering about rape. I don't know what the answer is. Transwomen are widely subject to assault also. Do you make them use the men's room where they are going to be at considerable risk when they appear to be a normal woman? What about their rights to safety? Although I guess that's an easy one if you just deny their existence. The large institution where I work has gender neutral restrooms and a lot of young people who would have no issue with transsexuals. I've been working there five years. Never heard of any incidents.
2. Fast tracking surgery- I don't agree with this either, although I'm not aware of it being a big problem (if you've data, go ahead and present it).
3. Kids using trans-identification as an escape from abuse – as with anything, I'm sure this has happened. People will always look at all the options in desperate situations. Does that mean a majority or even significant minority of those who realise they are transsexual are doing so as a result of abuse? IS there any data to support this? This claim has also been widely leveled at homosexuality over the years, including by some on this very board.
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:36:42 AM
There is a very large trans contingent on line and a large trans lobby. There was no such phenomenon 20 years ago or indeed at any time in the past.
There is no history anywhere of trans people barging into womens toilets or vaginoplasty for men or sex offenders screaming to be sent to the female wings of prisons.
A trans woman was executed in the US recently. This person had raped and murdered a woman.
It's all new. A lot of it seems to have been driven initially by surgical developments.
Gay marriage was different . There have always been gay people at x% of the population. There will always be lesbians.
There has never been a trans population at the current level. Because it's fake.
The reason they weren't online 20 years ago is because. No. I'm not even gonna say it. You aren't that thick
Isla Bryson will not serve the sentence in an all female prison.
Sanity at last
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 26, 2023, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:36:42 AM
There is a very large trans contingent on line and a large trans lobby. There was no such phenomenon 20 years ago or indeed at any time in the past.
There is no history anywhere of trans people barging into womens toilets or vaginoplasty for men or sex offenders screaming to be sent to the female wings of prisons.
A trans woman was executed in the US recently. This person had raped and murdered a woman.
It's all new. A lot of it seems to have been driven initially by surgical developments.
Gay marriage was different . There have always been gay people at x% of the population. There will always be lesbians.
There has never been a trans population at the current level. Because it's fake.
The reason they weren't online 20 years ago is because. No. I'm not even gonna say it. You aren't that thick
I've an email address over 20 years ;)
Quote from: J70 on January 26, 2023, 12:26:36 PM
You raise multiple different issues there seafoid.
1. Women's rights – yes, that is a tough one. There will be women who are afraid to use a restroom where transwomen are allowed, especially with all the fear mongering about rape. I don't know what the answer is. Transwomen are widely subject to assault also. Do you make them use the men's room where they are going to be at considerable risk when they appear to be a normal woman? What about their rights to safety? Although I guess that's an easy one if you just deny their existence. The large institution where I work has gender neutral restrooms and a lot of young people who would have no issue with transsexuals. I've been working there five years. Never heard of any incidents.
2. Fast tracking surgery- I don't agree with this either, although I'm not aware of it being a big problem (if you've data, go ahead and present it).
3. Kids using trans-identification as an escape from abuse – as with anything, I'm sure this has happened. People will always look at all the options in desperate situations. Does that mean a majority or even significant minority of those who realise they are transsexual are doing so as a result of abuse? IS there any data to support this? This claim has also been widely leveled at homosexuality over the years, including by some on this very board.
It looks like gay and autistic teenagers are the biggest source of female to male trans in the UK. This is a big issue for the gay community.
Prisons are just about opportunism. Self ID means anyone can claim to be female and female prisons are nicer. There is also evidence that post release , M2F trans revert to M.
The high number of teenage girls who transition has to be studied. One problem with the UK model was affirmation. Doctors would take whatever the patient said without exploring the bigger picture. Teenagers were told that puberty blockers were reversible.
Trans is not necessarily a human rights issue for certain trans groups. Perverts and fetishists are not victims.
I used to live in India. there is a community there called the hijras who are transsexual . They are a tiny proportion of the population. The trans community in English speaking countries would be far larger as a proportion of population , thanks to a lot of padding.
I think it's a mess.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
A few here might get to play county football now.
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
Hardly see this being a good approach for ladies teams that sometimes have 14 year olds playing for them to be sharing a dressing room and getting changed with a man
Quote from: Mourne Red on February 21, 2023, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
Hardly see this being a good approach for ladies teams that sometimes have 14 year olds playing for them to be sharing a dressing room and getting changed with a man
It is f**king madness. Imagine a 14 year old girl getting a shoulder off a biological man
Imagine a 14 year old BOY getting a shoulder off a biological man.
Does that happen in organized GAA games much?
It's a sick world we live in.
Quote from: Mourne Red on February 21, 2023, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
Hardly see this being a good approach for ladies teams that sometimes have 14 year olds playing for them to be sharing a dressing room and getting changed with a man
First thing you think of is underage girls changing :-X
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 01:07:53 PM
Imagine a 14 year old BOY getting a shoulder off a biological man.
Does that happen in organized GAA games much?
In smaller clubs you will get 14 year old boys who have a bad birthday playing Minors so yes that would happen.
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
The lunatics have taken over the asylum. Madness. No one knows where this ends. Women compete against women in sport so the playing field is level and biological differences between men and women are removed. We are aiming this policy at about 0.5% of the population and to hell with the 50% who are women.
And this is why people rally against what seems only small changes in policies. It is a slippery slope. Much like the whip debate in horse riding. They're out to placate a tiny minority.
Utter madeness.
Why don't we set up camps and detain all those who are different?
That'll teach them!
It's mentioned on another thread here about all the crazy parents there are on the sideline, imagine what it would be like if a trans player injured their young daughter or kicked the winning score in a youth game?
Interestingly enough one of the most recent episodes of the new Quantum Leap series tackles this issue with a high school girls basketball team.
Quote from: clarshack on February 21, 2023, 01:52:35 PM
It's mentioned on another thread here about all the crazy parents there are on the sideline, imagine what it would be like if a trans player injured their young daughter or kicked the winning score in a youth game?
Interestingly enough one of the most recent episodes of the new Quantum Leap series tackles this issue with a high school girls basketball team.
Oh boy !
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
Good on the LGFA
Quote from: trailer on February 21, 2023, 01:35:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
The lunatics have taken over the asylum. Madness. No one knows where this ends. Women compete against women in sport so the playing field is level and biological differences between men and women are removed. We are aiming this policy at about 0.5% of the population and to hell with the 50% who are women.
And this is why people rally against what seems only small changes in policies. It is a slippery slope. Much like the whip debate in horse riding. They're out to placate a tiny minority.
Utter madeness.
The dressingrooms are an open door for perverts . Anyone can self ID
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 02:00:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 21, 2023, 01:35:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
The lunatics have taken over the asylum. Madness. No one knows where this ends. Women compete against women in sport so the playing field is level and biological differences between men and women are removed. We are aiming this policy at about 0.5% of the population and to hell with the 50% who are women.
And this is why people rally against what seems only small changes in policies. It is a slippery slope. Much like the whip debate in horse riding. They're out to placate a tiny minority.
Utter madeness.
The dressingrooms are an open door for perverts . Anyone can self ID
There was photos going about on whatsapp last year of a lad who decided he was a woman playing for some ladies team in Dublin. Looked about 40 and was balding. Madness
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 12:16:35 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/19/transgender-players-given-green-light-by-ladies-gaelic-football-association/
The Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) has introduced a new policy that allows transgender women and girls to play the sport except in circumstances where an "unacceptable risk" arises.
The new policy, which was ratified on Wednesday, states the association "is committed to the inclusion" of transgender women and that it "will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination".
The policy applies to all transgender women and girls over the age of 12 who seek to play or continue playing the sport.
Transgender players "who have transitioned or are transitioning from male to female" are required to make an application to a new Transgender Application Committee.
Good on the LGFA
Unsurprising you are in support of this
It is only a matter of time until there is either a serious injury resulting in a challenge from a man on a woman on the pitch, or a serious safeguarding issue arising from this. Expect court cases and media column inches running for miles.
I don't understand why they have to colonise ladies gaelic football.
Why don't they have their own trans league ?
I heard they are "colonising ladies football" just to annoy people on message boards
Quote from: clarshack on February 21, 2023, 01:31:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 01:07:53 PM
Imagine a 14 year old BOY getting a shoulder off a biological man.
Does that happen in organized GAA games much?
In smaller clubs you will get 14 year old boys who have a bad birthday playing Minors so yes that would happen.
But that's ok?
We're not worried about the physical disparity and risk of injury in those cases?
What about the early maturing and late maturing lads at underage in general?
I was a small 14 year old and didn't start to shoot up until I was into u-16. I came up against lads a foot taller and 3 stone heavier. Don't ever remember any pearl clutching over it.
Women's sport in the long run is finished.
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 21, 2023, 01:31:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 01:07:53 PM
Imagine a 14 year old BOY getting a shoulder off a biological man.
Does that happen in organized GAA games much?
In smaller clubs you will get 14 year old boys who have a bad birthday playing Minors so yes that would happen.
But that's ok?
We're not worried about the physical disparity and risk of injury in those cases?
What about the early maturing and late maturing lads at underage in general?
I was a small 14 year old and didn't start to shoot up until I was into u-16. I came up against lads a foot taller and 3 stone heavier. Don't ever remember any pearl clutching over it.
I shot up and stopped while every **** got a foot taller !!!
I'm not sure how this can be properly regulated if I'm being honest, I really don't see there being that many, as for dressing rooms clubs will need to install unisex changing rooms, not uncommon and fits all purpuses
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2023, 03:10:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 21, 2023, 01:31:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 01:07:53 PM
Imagine a 14 year old BOY getting a shoulder off a biological man.
Does that happen in organized GAA games much?
In smaller clubs you will get 14 year old boys who have a bad birthday playing Minors so yes that would happen.
But that's ok?
We're not worried about the physical disparity and risk of injury in those cases?
What about the early maturing and late maturing lads at underage in general?
I was a small 14 year old and didn't start to shoot up until I was into u-16. I came up against lads a foot taller and 3 stone heavier. Don't ever remember any pearl clutching over it.
I shot up and stopped while every **** got a foot taller !!!
I'm not sure how this can be properly regulated if I'm being honest, I really don't see there being that many, as for dressing rooms clubs will need to install unisex changing rooms, not uncommon and fits all purpuses
Who is going to pay to build unisex changing rooms at clubs who only have two dressing rooms?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I wonder will we get many girls who identify as boys togging out for the local team we could be doing with them the numbers are low.
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 02:41:15 PM
I don't understand why they have to colonise ladies gaelic football.
Why don't they have their own trans league ?
Colonise. Would you wise up
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
Why would you support it if you are not in favour of it?
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 21, 2023, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
Why would you support it if you are not in favour of it?
I didn't say I wasn't in favour of it. I am not in favour of any guy rocking up and saying they're female in order to play. There has to be some checks and balances applied.
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:33:35 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 21, 2023, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
Why would you support it if you are not in favour of it?
I didn't say I wasn't in favour of it. I am not in favour of any guy rocking up and saying they're female in order to play. There has to be some checks and balances applied.
It really is madness the world is gone mad ;D
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
There's more to it than just rocking up with a ponytail and saying you're a female and wanting a start on the ladies team but it's certainly a hot potato that the LGFA are trying to grasp for the right and wrong of it..
Quote from: johnnycool on February 21, 2023, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
There's more to it than just rocking up with a ponytail and saying you're a female and wanting a start on the ladies team but it's certainly a hot potato that the LGFA are trying to grasp for the right and wrong of it..
Oh I know that mate. It is a hot potato and as I've said previously, fair play to the LGFA
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:42:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 21, 2023, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
There's more to it than just rocking up with a ponytail and saying you're a female and wanting a start on the ladies team but it's certainly a hot potato that the LGFA are trying to grasp for the right and wrong of it..
Oh I know that mate. It is a hot potato and as I've said previously, fair play to the LGFA
I wouldn't say that they pushed this through without discussing it with there members or even having a vote on it.
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
For me, this is part of the issue. A lot of the discourse around the topic at the minute appears to focus on "transwomen are women and if you don't agree you're a transphobic bigot", as if it's a statement of fact. Owen Jones said JK Rowling is a transphobe so she's a transphobe etc. Shutting down any difference of opinion or insiting that not agreeing with it is deyning people their rights is also not it.
As far as I'm concerned you can disagree with that statement and still believe everyone has the right not to be discriminated against.
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
Is that really ever going to happen though?
Especially in a parochial sport like Gaelic football or camogie?
Arriving at the clubhouse to register as a trans player would surely be an endpoint in a long, difficult, emotional process for any individual, not something that some person will just decide willy-nilly, especially among friends, relatives and neighbours.
Quote from: gallsman on February 21, 2023, 03:47:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
For me, this is part of the issue. A lot of the discourse around the topic at the minute appears to focus on "transwomen are women and if you don't agree you're a transphobic bigot", as if it's a statement of fact. Owen Jones said JK Rowling is a transphobe so she's a transphobe etc. Shutting down any difference of opinion or insiting that not agreeing with it is deyning people their rights is also not it.
As far as I'm concerned you can disagree with that statement and still believe everyone has the right not to be discriminated against.
It's a relatively new and difficult issue. Unfortunately as with a lot of things the hardline zealots on either end dominate the discourse.
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
Is that really ever going to happen though?
Especially in a parochial sport like Gaelic football or camogie?
Less of an issue in rural clubs you'd imagine but you'll get some loopers trying it.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 21, 2023, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
Is that really ever going to happen though?
Especially in a parochial sport like Gaelic football or camogie?
Less of an issue in rural clubs you'd imagine but you'll get some loopers trying it.
Highly doubtful.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 21, 2023, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
There's more to it than just rocking up with a ponytail and saying you're a female and wanting a start on the ladies team but it's certainly a hot potato that the LGFA are trying to grasp for the right and wrong of it..
Women can have short hair too you know ;)
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
It's not scaremongering. There are no boundaries when men can claim to be women.
Unfortunately there are paedophiles who take advantage of situations
https://gettr.com/post/p1fuij93024
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-56861930
Just because you say you're a man doesn't make you a man. There needs to be respect for basic science and biology in all of this. "Feelings" are grand and all that, but denying basic year 8 biology is not the way forward.
A Woman can dress as a man and live as a man but she is still biologically a man and vice versa. That's the reality.
Is a very difficult situation
There are people who legitimately are transgender and then there are people who are just looking for attention
The difficulty is compounded by this being a contact sport and the potential for serious injury, but that danger already exists due to mismatches in physique and conditioning
I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 21, 2023, 04:15:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
I fully agree with this. It will be difficult and while I support it I wouldn't be in favour of any person saying they're female and wanting to play ladies football
Is that really ever going to happen though?
Especially in a parochial sport like Gaelic football or camogie?
Less of an issue in rural clubs you'd imagine but you'll get some loopers trying it.
What about the Loup ?
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2023, 04:47:13 PM
Is a very difficult situation
There are people who legitimately are transgender and then there are people who are just looking for attention
The difficulty is compounded by this being a contact sport and the potential for serious injury, but that danger already exists due to mismatches in physique and conditioning
I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer
There will be a definitive answer if enough women get injured
It's hard to see this issue hanging around indefinitely.
Fallon Fox is a trans MMA fighter who go into the headlines for this
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
It's not scaremongering. There are no boundaries when men can claim to be women.
Unfortunately there are paedophiles who take advantage of situations
https://gettr.com/post/p1fuij93024
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-56861930
Well if you're going to define everyone by the actions of a small criminal minority, I guess we should stop priests getting involved in GAA clubs and abolish swimming, gymnastics and scouts for kids too.
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
It's not scaremongering. There are no boundaries when men can claim to be women.
Unfortunately there are paedophiles who take advantage of situations
https://gettr.com/post/p1fuij93024
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-56861930
Well if you're going to define everyone by the actions of a small criminal minority, I guess we should stop priests getting involved in GAA clubs and abolish swimming, gymnastics and scouts for kids too.
Wouldn't be a bad thing stopping priest getting involved in GAA clubs.. money grabbing bastards
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 21, 2023, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2023, 03:01:15 PM
It's a difficult topic. I can see issues from both sides. The only certain thing about it, is that it's going to be a real hot potato for organisations to try and manage delicately.
Its a very difficult topic.
And I don't know the answer.
But scaremongering about perverts and denying the existence or humanity of these people is not it.
It's not scaremongering. There are no boundaries when men can claim to be women.
Unfortunately there are paedophiles who take advantage of situations
https://gettr.com/post/p1fuij93024
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-56861930
Well if you're going to define everyone by the actions of a small criminal minority, I guess we should stop priests getting involved in GAA clubs and abolish swimming, gymnastics and scouts for kids too.
It wasn't broken. Women's sports were working fine .
Introducing these changes is obviously negative.
Quote from: trailer on February 21, 2023, 04:41:58 PM
A Woman can dress as a man and live as a man but she is still biologically a man and vice versa.
Make your mind up
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 05:02:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2023, 04:47:13 PM
Is a very difficult situation
There are people who legitimately are transgender and then there are people who are just looking for attention
The difficulty is compounded by this being a contact sport and the potential for serious injury, but that danger already exists due to mismatches in physique and conditioning
I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer
There will be a definitive answer if enough women get injured
It's hard to see this issue hanging around indefinitely.
Fallon Fox is a trans MMA fighter who go into the headlines for this
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Orbital bone isn't really your skull tho is it? Also, in women mma fights the fighters suffer massive injuries. Check on nunes and Peña for example
Ladies gaa clubs have a representative that goes to county board meetings and report what each club thinks or has voted on then the county board representative votes at a national level according to majority opinion in each club throughout the county is that how this is run ? If the majority want this and someone gets broke up tough s@it
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 06:04:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 05:02:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 21, 2023, 04:47:13 PM
Is a very difficult situation
There are people who legitimately are transgender and then there are people who are just looking for attention
The difficulty is compounded by this being a contact sport and the potential for serious injury, but that danger already exists due to mismatches in physique and conditioning
I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer
There will be a definitive answer if enough women get injured
It's hard to see this issue hanging around indefinitely.
Fallon Fox is a trans MMA fighter who go into the headlines for this
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Orbital bone isn't really your skull tho is it? Also, in women mma fights the fighters suffer massive injuries. Check on nunes and Peña for example
Women are on average smaller and weaker than men
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
"I've fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can't answer whether it's because she was born a man or not because I'm not a doctor. I can only say, I've never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right. Her grip was different, I could usually move around in the clinch against other females but couldn't move at all in Fox's clinch," Brents told Whoa TV."
The LGFA could be opening itself up to court cases which will go down very well at Central Council post merger, I'm sure, especially amongst the conservative majority.
It's not the right thing to do in sports tbh.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 21, 2023, 06:58:18 PM
It's not the right thing to do in sports tbh.
If we have male sports and female sports can we not try transgender sports, would you not want to pit yourself, if you recognise as transgender, (I don't even know if that's correct wording) against other transgender athletes?
If you were born as a woman then looking to compete as a man it wouldn't be smart in an athletic sport?
Organisations are too afraid to stand up for themselves and roll over for this shit as they don't want to face the inevitable backlash. What world are we living in where the rights of a tiny majority now supersede those of the majority.
The day to day stuff is fine but sports and physical development etc don't make it right in the area for me. Physical power differences etc too great.
I think it is maybe triathlon they have a transgender section. Actually reading it they have a long term policy on testosterone level... (24 months).
The swimming sports body (FINA) have recently adopted their Trans policy
https://7news.com.au/sport/swimming/fina-bans-transgender-athletes-from-elite-womens-competition-if-they-went-through-puberty-c-7223511 (https://7news.com.au/sport/swimming/fina-bans-transgender-athletes-from-elite-womens-competition-if-they-went-through-puberty-c-7223511)
"Female-to-male transgender athletes remain eligible to compete in FINA competitions and to set world records in the men's category."
"Male-to-female athletes cannot compete in women's categories at the highest levels unless they completed their transition by the age of 12."
"The organisation will also work to establish an "open" category at competitions for swimmers whose gender identity is different to their birth sex."
There's a rake of biological research to support the claim that boys greatly benefit physiologically when passing through puberty, much more so than females.
The selected age 12 looks be a mid point, I don't about other counties but us Monaghan boys started shaving around our 10th birthday.
Has Nicola Sturgeon taken up a new role with the LGFA ? :(
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Organisations are too afraid to stand up for themselves and roll over for this shit as they don't want to face the inevitable backlash. What world are we living in where the rights of a tiny majority now supersede those of the majority.
What rights are being superseded?
Quote from: Main Street on February 21, 2023, 07:50:34 PM
The swimming sports body (FINA) have recently adopted their Trans policy
https://7news.com.au/sport/swimming/fina-bans-transgender-athletes-from-elite-womens-competition-if-they-went-through-puberty-c-7223511 (https://7news.com.au/sport/swimming/fina-bans-transgender-athletes-from-elite-womens-competition-if-they-went-through-puberty-c-7223511)
"Female-to-male transgender athletes remain eligible to compete in FINA competitions and to set world records in the men's category."
"Male-to-female athletes cannot compete in women's categories at the highest levels unless they completed their transition by the age of 12."
"The organisation will also work to establish an "open" category at competitions for swimmers whose gender identity is different to their birth sex."
There's a rake of biological research to support the claim that boys greatly benefit physiologically when passing through puberty, much more so than females.
The selected age 12 looks be a mid point, I don't about other counties but us Monaghan boys started shaving around our 10th birthday.
So bald by age 30
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Organisations are too afraid to stand up for themselves and roll over for this shit as they don't want to face the inevitable backlash. What world are we living in where the rights of a tiny majority now supersede those of the majority.
What rights are being superseded?
Are you being facetious or just stupid?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 08:24:25 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Organisations are too afraid to stand up for themselves and roll over for this shit as they don't want to face the inevitable backlash. What world are we living in where the rights of a tiny majority now supersede those of the majority.
What rights are being superseded?
Are you being facetious or just stupid?
Tonto seems to be some sort of trans activist
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 21, 2023, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 08:24:25 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Organisations are too afraid to stand up for themselves and roll over for this shit as they don't want to face the inevitable backlash. What world are we living in where the rights of a tiny majority now supersede those of the majority.
What rights are being superseded?
Are you being facetious or just stupid?
Tonto seems to be some sort of trans activist
That sort of comment is no different from calling people transphobic just because they have genuine concerns about the implementation of trans policies. Both unhelpful.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 08:24:25 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Organisations are too afraid to stand up for themselves and roll over for this shit as they don't want to face the inevitable backlash. What world are we living in where the rights of a tiny majority now supersede those of the majority.
What rights are being superseded?
Are you being facetious or just stupid?
So you don't know. Glad you cleared that up
I think trans must be the first example of human rights that involve the denial of rights to other people
https://twitter.com/IWF/status/1620493823251030028
https://twitter.com/KatelynKPearce/status/1626024671106703360
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2023, 10:41:58 PM
I think trans must be the first example of human rights that involve the denial of rights to other people
https://twitter.com/IWF/status/1620493823251030028
What rights were denied there?
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
I'm not anti-gay at all, but I think normalising what is clearly 'fringe' only leads to more and more - and more and more crazy - 'fringe' 'interests' also being normalised. Where does it stop? As for the collapse of civilisation; well it's a slow process, and many more factors are involved other than homosexuality, but the western civilisation is most certainly on the wane.
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
I'm not anti-gay at all, but I think normalising what is clearly 'fringe' only leads to more and more - and more and more crazy - 'fringe' 'interests' also being normalised. Where does it stop? As for the collapse of civilisation; well it's a slow process, and many more factors are involved other than homosexuality, but the western civilisation is most certainly on the wane.
Sexualisation of children/paedophilia will be next. Look at that Balenciaga shit
One thing is for sure and both Christians and gay people can both agree on, is that an anus is not a vagina.
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
But it's not about ordinary "men" wanting to compete in women's sport, is it?
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 02:37:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
But it's not about ordinary "men" wanting to compete in women's sport, is it?
Cut the balls off a dog it doesnt make him a bitch.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
I'm not anti-gay at all, but I think normalising what is clearly 'fringe' only leads to more and more - and more and more crazy - 'fringe' 'interests' also being normalised. Where does it stop? As for the collapse of civilisation; well it's a slow process, and many more factors are involved other than homosexuality, but the western civilisation is most certainly on the wane.
I'm hesitant to bring up what's normal and fringe after a bad faith (on their part) exchange with a moron with the moniker "no wides" a few years back, but it's warranted.
Lots of things are "fringe". The human race is full of variety. Simple left handedness is a relatively fringe trait (10% is the usual stat). Was once looked upon with serious superstitious suspicion (the word for left in some languages shares roots with the word sinister for example). My own aunt was forced, with the threat of violence, to learn to write with her right hand by west of Ireland nuns charged with her education.
There are all kinds of things, not just homosexuality, with where condemned and repressed for much of history just based on their supposed abnormality and immorality.
Things change as society becomes more enlightened and open and less irrationally prejudiced. If the prejudice and bigotry was justified, then the traditionalists and bigots wouldn't be losing the debate on these issues over and over again across decades.
And I don't see how western civilization can be said to be on the wane because it is becoming more open and diverse and tolerant.
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
I'm not anti-gay at all, but I think normalising what is clearly 'fringe' only leads to more and more - and more and more crazy - 'fringe' 'interests' also being normalised. Where does it stop? As for the collapse of civilisation; well it's a slow process, and many more factors are involved other than homosexuality, but the western civilisation is most certainly on the wane.
I'm hesitant to bring up what's normal and fringe after a bad faith (on their part) exchange with a moron with the moniker "no wides" a few years back, but it's warranted.
Lots of things are "fringe". The human race is full of variety. Simple left handedness is a relatively fringe trait (10% is the usual stat). Was once looked upon with serious superstitious suspicion (the word for left in some languages shares roots with the word sinister for example). My own aunt was forced, with the threat of violence, to learn to write with her right hand by west of Ireland nuns charged with her education.
There are all kinds of things, not just homosexuality, with where condemned and repressed for much of history just based on their supposed abnormality and immorality.
Things change as society becomes more enlightened and open and less irrationally prejudiced. If the prejudice and bigotry was justified, then the traditionalists and bigots wouldn't be losing the debate on these issues over and over again across decades.
And I don't see how western civilization can be said to be on the wane because it is becoming more open and diverse and tolerant.
I think we have to think carefully before extending tolerance to the trans project. Why do they have to walk all over female spaces?
If they really were persecuted wouldn't their own spaces do? Women find the presence of men in female changing rooms really uncomfortable.
Gay rights were achieved without any of this provocation.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 02:50:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 02:37:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
But it's not about ordinary "men" wanting to compete in women's sport, is it?
Cut the balls off a dog it doesnt make him a bitch.
Is anyone saying physical castration is the beginning and end of the matter?
Are you boys bothered by transmen BTW?
All your bile seems to be directed at transwomen, their ball sacks and whether they will do a Jonah Lomu impression on the female sports field.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 02:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
I'm not anti-gay at all, but I think normalising what is clearly 'fringe' only leads to more and more - and more and more crazy - 'fringe' 'interests' also being normalised. Where does it stop? As for the collapse of civilisation; well it's a slow process, and many more factors are involved other than homosexuality, but the western civilisation is most certainly on the wane.
I'm hesitant to bring up what's normal and fringe after a bad faith (on their part) exchange with a moron with the moniker "no wides" a few years back, but it's warranted.
Lots of things are "fringe". The human race is full of variety. Simple left handedness is a relatively fringe trait (10% is the usual stat). Was once looked upon with serious superstitious suspicion (the word for left in some languages shares roots with the word sinister for example). My own aunt was forced, with the threat of violence, to learn to write with her right hand by west of Ireland nuns charged with her education.
There are all kinds of things, not just homosexuality, with where condemned and repressed for much of history just based on their supposed abnormality and immorality.
Things change as society becomes more enlightened and open and less irrationally prejudiced. If the prejudice and bigotry was justified, then the traditionalists and bigots wouldn't be losing the debate on these issues over and over again across decades.
And I don't see how western civilization can be said to be on the wane because it is becoming more open and diverse and tolerant.
I think we have to think carefully before extending tolerance to the trans project. Why do they have to walk all over female spaces?
If they really were persecuted wouldn't their own spaces do? Women find the presence of men in female changing rooms really uncomfortable.
Gay rights were achieved without any of this provocation.
Gay rights were extremely controversial. You don't have to go back too many years on this very site to see heated protests from some on how the extension of legal marriage to gay people would supposedly destroy traditional heterosexual marriage! And that's after the decades it took to first normalize and mainstream homosexuality itself.
But I agree that this needs serious debate, preferably absent the emotion and fear mongering. I've already said a few times I don't have answers.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
I'm not anti-gay at all, but I think normalising what is clearly 'fringe' only leads to more and more - and more and more crazy - 'fringe' 'interests' also being normalised. Where does it stop? As for the collapse of civilisation; well it's a slow process, and many more factors are involved other than homosexuality, but the western civilisation is most certainly on the wane.
When someone says 'I'm not xxxxxx but' anything they say before the but can be discounted
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
They aren't men tho
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 02:59:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
I'm not anti-gay at all, but I think normalising what is clearly 'fringe' only leads to more and more - and more and more crazy - 'fringe' 'interests' also being normalised. Where does it stop? As for the collapse of civilisation; well it's a slow process, and many more factors are involved other than homosexuality, but the western civilisation is most certainly on the wane.
I'm hesitant to bring up what's normal and fringe after a bad faith (on their part) exchange with a moron with the moniker "no wides" a few years back, but it's warranted.
Lots of things are "fringe". The human race is full of variety. Simple left handedness is a relatively fringe trait (10% is the usual stat). Was once looked upon with serious superstitious suspicion (the word for left in some languages shares roots with the word sinister for example). My own aunt was forced, with the threat of violence, to learn to write with her right hand by west of Ireland nuns charged with her education.
There are all kinds of things, not just homosexuality, with where condemned and repressed for much of history just based on their supposed abnormality and immorality.
Things change as society becomes more enlightened and open and less irrationally prejudiced. If the prejudice and bigotry was justified, then the traditionalists and bigots wouldn't be losing the debate on these issues over and over again across decades.
And I don't see how western civilization can be said to be on the wane because it is becoming more open and diverse and tolerant.
I think we have to think carefully before extending tolerance to the trans project. Why do they have to walk all over female spaces?
If they really were persecuted wouldn't their own spaces do? Women find the presence of men in female changing rooms really uncomfortable.
Gay rights were achieved without any of this provocation.
The state of this. Project. Provocation. Catch yourself on
Trans is a culture war. A man can't become a woman. Catch yourself on.
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
They aren't men tho
If they've been born a man and went through puberty as male they shouldnt be in female sports. Simple.
It is f**king sick.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 22, 2023, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
And were they wrong?!!
By any decent, moral and rational standard, yes, they were.
But sure knock yourself out and defend homophobic bigotry if you want.
I'm not anti-gay at all, but I think normalising what is clearly 'fringe' only leads to more and more - and more and more crazy - 'fringe' 'interests' also being normalised. Where does it stop? As for the collapse of civilisation; well it's a slow process, and many more factors are involved other than homosexuality, but the western civilisation is most certainly on the wane.
Sexualisation of children/paedophilia will be next. Look at that Balenciaga shit
As opposed to back in the good old days of "out of sight and out of mind" ::)
Jesus Christ, as we have only begun to understand the level of abuse that has been occurring in this and previous generations; thus as more and more victims are confirmed it's hard to see how could debate or discuss of normalising paedophilia let alone it actually happen.
Give it 50-100 years.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 03:30:29 PMIt is f**king sick.
What about wishing politicians/celebrities dead?
To be absolutely clear I have no issue with people who want to transition. I have an issue with people who transition who then want to use that to their advantage in sports and in whatever other areas.
Men can dress and act like a Woman but they are biologically male and vice versa and I am happy to address them as they see if (even if I think it is a load of shite personally). But science will always win through.
When we deny science we allow a space for all sorts of nonsense like Anti Vax stuff for example.
Tbh it's a significant advantage in the sport and it makes it not a level playing field. The risk of injuries to women, born women, is much greater etc. I don't think there even needs to be depths to the argument. I have no problem with all the identification things going on but in sport it creates a very uneven playing field which isn't fair and that's it.
It's not a slight on people doing it and people don't transition just to gain advantage in sport. Those that do transition should have a place too but the question is where is that.
Serena Williams at her prime admitted she wouldn't beat any man seeded in the top 100
The World Champions US Ladies soccer team were beaten 5-2 by a boys U15 team
Women's Sport and competition will just become meaningless
Sports could have 2 categories.
Open (accept all comers. People who identify as men, women, trans, cats, ...)
Women's (born female, went through female puberty, levels of hormones etc. within a range)
Quote from: CK_Redhand on February 22, 2023, 04:15:29 PM
Sports could have 2 categories.
Open (accept all comers. People who identify as men, women, trans, cats, ...)
Women's (born female, went through female puberty, levels of hormones etc. within a range No Cocks Ever)
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 03:44:29 PM
Give it 50-100 years.
Yet as society has evolved the trend has been for paedophilia and abuse of childre to become less acceptable ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: thebigfella on February 22, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 03:44:29 PM
Give it 50-100 years.
Yet as society has evolved the trend has been for paedophilia and abuse of childre to become less acceptable ::) ::) ::)
Look at Balenciaga.
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
They aren't men tho
Just because The Big Bad Wolf identified as Red Riding Hoods granny doesn't mean it was
Quote from: Mourne Red on February 22, 2023, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
They aren't men tho
Just because The Big Bad Wolf identified as Red Riding Hoods granny doesn't mean it was
Debate over.
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Be interesting to see the reactions of those that look at these differences when they turn up on their doorstep within their own family.
The world is not falling apart because of this, people have always felt different, they just hid it better or masked it and never did become the person they actually were.
We live in a society that is a lot more open, strange that people want to harp back to days when they 'dealt' with these actions differently
There is not a person out there that chooses to be different, being different exposes you to a harder life, bullying and so on.. They ain't doing it to get attention as what some headers think
Yeah you can't seem to discuss this issue without nonsense round it.
The identity thing is fine.
It's not a level playing field in womens sport would be my point - that would just be my view on it. Take an example of Semenya in the athletics (and I feel awful sorry for that poor woman) and how she wasn't allowed to compete. (I think she possibly then became allowed to but at longer distances). There was a significant difference there power wise. That is the kind of thing that would happen.
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
Trans is much bigger than transsexuals. They would only be a small percentage of the overall group.
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on February 22, 2023, 04:15:29 PM
Sports could have 2 categories.
Open (accept all comers. People who identify as men, women, trans, cats, ...)
Women's (born female, went through female puberty, levels of hormones etc. within a range No Cocks Ever)
That would count you out
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:35:50 PM
Quote from: Mourne Red on February 22, 2023, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 02:01:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
The truth in all of this is that any man wanting to compete in a women's sport is mentally unwell. But you're not allowed to say that because mental health and feelings.
This issue isn't going away and Men who want to play in women's sports need to get ready for a scrutiny that will rightly come their way.
That's the "truth", is it?
Homosexuality was medically a mental illness until the 70s and remained criminalized in Ireland for another 15 years after that.
I'm sure there were plenty crying about woke agendas and the collapse of civilization then too.
I am making one very small specific point about Men wanting to compete in Women's sport. You have lost the run of yourself talking about Homosexuality, woke agendas and the collapse of civilisation. This is exactly the problem with this debate. My point is very specific.
They aren't men tho
Just because The Big Bad Wolf identified as Red Riding Hoods granny doesn't mean it was
Debate over.
In your little mind
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 21, 2023, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 08:24:25 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 21, 2023, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 21, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Organisations are too afraid to stand up for themselves and roll over for this shit as they don't want to face the inevitable backlash. What world are we living in where the rights of a tiny majority now supersede those of the majority.
What rights are being superseded?
Are you being facetious or just stupid?
Tonto seems to be some sort of trans activist
I wouldn't say that mate. I know a few trans people. All of whom are wonderful. One in particular was very helpful to me when I first went to AA and to be honest with you, without her I may not be nearly 8 years sober. To see people here call them a lobby, call them sick, well it sickens me to be honest.
As for sports. I disagree with MTF trans people competing in combat sports full stop. Other sports I am not sure about but some of the scare stories about them are just that. Scare stories. As I've stated already I think there need to be checks and balances in place
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2023, 04:57:21 PM
Be interesting to see the reactions of those that look at these differences when they turn up on their doorstep within their own family.
The world is not falling apart because of this, people have always felt different, they just hid it better or masked it and never did become the person they actually were.
We live in a society that is a lot more open, strange that people want to harp back to days when they 'dealt' with these actions differently
There is not a person out there that chooses to be different, being different exposes you to a harder life, bullying and so on.. They ain't doing it to get attention as what some headers think
It comes down to it hitting close to home, as always.
There are countless stories of politicians and so on being against homosexuality or abortion or whatever, often virulently so, until it happens to their own kid or relative. Then suddenly they're forced to deal with the fact that these are real people with real human issues or problems, not some faceless subhuman member of some out group they can use as a political football.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
It's cute that you think that's the same thing
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:32:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2023, 04:57:21 PM
Be interesting to see the reactions of those that look at these differences when they turn up on their doorstep within their own family.
The world is not falling apart because of this, people have always felt different, they just hid it better or masked it and never did become the person they actually were.
We live in a society that is a lot more open, strange that people want to harp back to days when they 'dealt' with these actions differently
There is not a person out there that chooses to be different, being different exposes you to a harder life, bullying and so on.. They ain't doing it to get attention as what some headers think
It comes down to it hitting close to home, as always.
There are countless stories of politicians and so on being against homosexuality or abortion or whatever, often virulently so, until it happens to their own kid or relative. Then suddenly they're forced to deal with the fact that these are real people with real human issues or problems, not some faceless subhuman member of some out group they can use as a political football.
Homosexuality can be verified scientifically.
So can autism.
Transness can't.
There is no test for non binaryness
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 08:52:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:32:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2023, 04:57:21 PM
Be interesting to see the reactions of those that look at these differences when they turn up on their doorstep within their own family.
The world is not falling apart because of this, people have always felt different, they just hid it better or masked it and never did become the person they actually were.
We live in a society that is a lot more open, strange that people want to harp back to days when they 'dealt' with these actions differently
There is not a person out there that chooses to be different, being different exposes you to a harder life, bullying and so on.. They ain't doing it to get attention as what some headers think
It comes down to it hitting close to home, as always.
There are countless stories of politicians and so on being against homosexuality or abortion or whatever, often virulently so, until it happens to their own kid or relative. Then suddenly they're forced to deal with the fact that these are real people with real human issues or problems, not some faceless subhuman member of some out group they can use as a political football.
Homosexuality can be verified scientifically.
So can autism.
Transness can't.
There is no test for non binaryness
And just how is homosexuality verified scientifically
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 08:52:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:32:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2023, 04:57:21 PM
Be interesting to see the reactions of those that look at these differences when they turn up on their doorstep within their own family.
The world is not falling apart because of this, people have always felt different, they just hid it better or masked it and never did become the person they actually were.
We live in a society that is a lot more open, strange that people want to harp back to days when they 'dealt' with these actions differently
There is not a person out there that chooses to be different, being different exposes you to a harder life, bullying and so on.. They ain't doing it to get attention as what some headers think
It comes down to it hitting close to home, as always.
There are countless stories of politicians and so on being against homosexuality or abortion or whatever, often virulently so, until it happens to their own kid or relative. Then suddenly they're forced to deal with the fact that these are real people with real human issues or problems, not some faceless subhuman member of some out group they can use as a political football.
Homosexuality can be verified scientifically.
So can autism.
Transness can't.
There is no test for non binaryness
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 09:03:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 08:52:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:32:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2023, 04:57:21 PM
Be interesting to see the reactions of those that look at these differences when they turn up on their doorstep within their own family.
The world is not falling apart because of this, people have always felt different, they just hid it better or masked it and never did become the person they actually were.
We live in a society that is a lot more open, strange that people want to harp back to days when they 'dealt' with these actions differently
There is not a person out there that chooses to be different, being different exposes you to a harder life, bullying and so on.. They ain't doing it to get attention as what some headers think
It comes down to it hitting close to home, as always.
There are countless stories of politicians and so on being against homosexuality or abortion or whatever, often virulently so, until it happens to their own kid or relative. Then suddenly they're forced to deal with the fact that these are real people with real human issues or problems, not some faceless subhuman member of some out group they can use as a political football.
Homosexuality can be verified scientifically.
So can autism.
Transness can't.
There is no test for non binaryness
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/
How many Transgenders have one of the chromosomal defects listed in the article?
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Was going to say that but couldn't spell it ;)
This kind of stuff was happening at the end of the Roman Empire , is Putin the vandals
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 10:40:39 PM
Most schools have a few transers . The distribution of hermaphrodites or trannies in the population would be a lot lower.
It's a social contagion.
Using derogatory terms now eh?
I assume you have evidence to back these claims up?
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 10:40:39 PM
Most schools have a few transers . The distribution of hermaphrodites or trannies in the population would be a lot lower.
It's a social contagion.
Using derogatory terms now eh?
I assume you have evidence to back these claims up?
When I was in school there were no trans kids and none of the lads ever demanded entry to the girls toilets.
This is all new.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 10:52:09 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 10:40:39 PM
Most schools have a few transers . The distribution of hermaphrodites or trannies in the population would be a lot lower.
It's a social contagion.
Using derogatory terms now eh?
I assume you have evidence to back these claims up?
When I was in school there were no trans kids and none of the lads ever demanded entry to the girls toilets.
This is all new.
That'll be a no then. Typical from you
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
Nearly time to shut this one down.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 10:52:09 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 10:40:39 PM
Most schools have a few transers . The distribution of hermaphrodites or trannies in the population would be a lot lower.
It's a social contagion.
Using derogatory terms now eh?
I assume you have evidence to back these claims up?
When I was in school there were no trans kids and none of the lads ever demanded entry to the girls toilets.
This is all new.
Did ye still use quills then?
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What % they make up is irrelevant. It shows that science isn't as straight forward as you would like to make it.
Crybabies hate to debate anything just shut it down SAD
I used to live in India. There were transsexuals in Mumbai . They lived in communities and had a social role blessing and cursing people.
The taxi drivers were all afraid of them.
They would bless babies for money
There were maybe 300 of them.
The trans thing is totally different because of what it means for women. It's a culture war.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 22, 2023, 11:20:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 10:52:09 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 22, 2023, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2023, 10:40:39 PM
Most schools have a few transers . The distribution of hermaphrodites or trannies in the population would be a lot lower.
It's a social contagion.
Using derogatory terms now eh?
I assume you have evidence to back these claims up?
When I was in school there were no trans kids and none of the lads ever demanded entry to the girls toilets.
This is all new.
Did ye still use quills then?
No. We won 3 all Irelands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF-Nk66P5OQ
We went up to see Clann a few times. The mi-adh.
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19509343.outcry-plan-educate-bigoted-rape-survivors-trans-rights/ Editor
THE head of one of Scotland's biggest rape crisis centres has suggested "bigoted" rape survivors should be re-educated about transgender rights as part of recovering from their trauma.
Mridul Wadhwa, a transgender woman, said people would not truly recover unless they addressed their "unacceptable beliefs" because "therapy is political".
She said: "We will work with you... but please expect to be challenged on your prejudices."
The comments imply rape survivors may be treated differently according to their political views.
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 07:44:22 AM
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19509343.outcry-plan-educate-bigoted-rape-survivors-trans-rights/ Editor
THE head of one of Scotland's biggest rape crisis centres has suggested "bigoted" rape survivors should be re-educated about transgender rights as part of recovering from their trauma.
Mridul Wadhwa, a transgender woman, said people would not truly recover unless they addressed their "unacceptable beliefs" because "therapy is political".
She said: "We will work with you... but please expect to be challenged on your prejudices."
The comments imply rape survivors may be treated differently according to their political views.
like with anything, the whole trans issue is being hijacked by f**king lunatics
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Would any of them make a good fullback or midfielder?
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Mental illness
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 23, 2023, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Mental illness
f**k me, I suppose people that are gay have a mental illness too?
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 23, 2023, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Mental illness
It would be some craic for someone in your family if they were announcing this to you.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2023, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 23, 2023, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Mental illness
It would be some craic for someone in your family if they were announcing this to you.
He'd sign them up to this malarkey, Conversion therapy
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 23, 2023, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Mental illness
You should probably get help for that
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 09:00:05 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 23, 2023, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Mental illness
f**k me, I suppose people that are gay have a mental illness too?
No. Why do you conflate those 2 things?
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 10:26:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 09:00:05 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 23, 2023, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Mental illness
f**k me, I suppose people that are gay have a mental illness too?
No. Why do you conflate those 2 things?
I'm responding to the guy that says they have a mental illness, who's also in awe of Andrew Tate and recognises as a tree previously on this thread
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2023, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
There is a word in Irish for left handed people and for gay people. Such people occur in every generation.
There is no word for a man who thinks he is a woman despite the fact that he still has his wedding tackle because this is made up. It did not exist before and it will not exist in the future.
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2023, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
What are you on about
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2023, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
There is a word in Irish for left handed people and for gay people. Such people occur in every generation.
There is no word for a man who thinks he is a woman despite the fact that he still has his wedding tackle because this is made up. It did not exist before and it will not exist in the future.
Sumerian and Akkadian texts from 4,500 years ago document priests known as gala who may have been transgender. In Ancient Greece, Phrygia, and Rome, there were galli priests that some scholars believe to have been trans women.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2023, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
There is a word in Irish for left handed people and for gay people. Such people occur in every generation.
There is no word for a man who thinks he is a woman despite the fact that he still has his wedding tackle because this is made up. It did not exist before and it will not exist in the future.
Sumerian and Akkadian texts from 4,500 years ago document priests known as gala who may have been transgender. In Ancient Greece, Phrygia, and Rome, there were galli priests that some scholars believe to have been trans women.
Hermaphrodites and real transsexuals have always existed in very small numbers. The current cult is about 30 years old and includes a much larger number of people who think they can act themselves into changing sex. There is a lot of money behind it. It would be better to put the money into Ulster hurling.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2023, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
There is a word in Irish for left handed people and for gay people. Such people occur in every generation.
There is no word for a man who thinks he is a woman despite the fact that he still has his wedding tackle because this is made up. It did not exist before and it will not exist in the future.
Sumerian and Akkadian texts from 4,500 years ago document priests known as gala who may have been transgender. In Ancient Greece, Phrygia, and Rome, there were galli priests that some scholars believe to have been trans women.
Hermaphrodites and real transsexuals have always existed in very small numbers. The current cult is about 30 years old and includes a much larger number of people who think they can act themselves into changing sex. There is a lot of money behind it. It would be better to put the money into Ulster hurling.
Cult. You really are a p***k
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
Are you saying trans people don't get any flack?
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 03:10:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
Are you saying trans people don't get any flack?
I'm referring to teenagers coming out as trans and I would say no, not anymore and not in the area I live in
You would very likely be charged with a hate crime
Thread totally lost the run of itself!
Can I just ask are we saying transgender people should be allowed to play ladies GAA or not? For me it's a definite no but I'd be interested to see what everyone else says.
It's a no from me. Too many physical advantages from the testosterone for me.
Quote from: JimStynes on February 23, 2023, 03:17:04 PM
Thread totally lost the run of itself!
Can I just ask are we saying transgender people should be allowed to play ladies GAA or not? For me it's a definite no but I'd be interested to see what everyone else says.
The thread wasn't about that though. It's a hard one to answer and I can't give a blanket yes/no
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2023, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
There is a word in Irish for left handed people and for gay people. Such people occur in every generation.
There is no word for a man who thinks he is a woman despite the fact that he still has his wedding tackle because this is made up. It did not exist before and it will not exist in the future.
What is this
duine trasinscneach
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2023, 03:20:59 PM
It's a no from me. Too many physical advantages from the testosterone for me.
The physcial advantages and the child protection and safeguarding issues are standing out a mile for me.
Lenny Bruce Men and women
https://youtu.be/xFNvqBQ3b6w
Quote from: JimStynes on February 23, 2023, 03:17:04 PM
Thread totally lost the run of itself!
Can I just ask are we saying transgender people should be allowed to play ladies GAA or not? For me it's a definite no but I'd be interested to see what everyone else says.
Can they play then the other way round?
I remember being in Churchhill in Donegal a thousand years ago, we were up as a club for the week, best of times, anyways we played the local club and they coach said, "look we've a few girls on the team, is that ok" we though aye grand, the girls bate the shit out of the lads!! some craic ..
Though Donegal women are tough ;)
Judith Butler is the intellectual driver of the trans project.
She says you can act into whatever gender you want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo7o2LYATDc
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
:https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1628451056928817154
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 03:09:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2023, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
There is a word in Irish for left handed people and for gay people. Such people occur in every generation.
There is no word for a man who thinks he is a woman despite the fact that he still has his wedding tackle because this is made up. It did not exist before and it will not exist in the future.
Sumerian and Akkadian texts from 4,500 years ago document priests known as gala who may have been transgender. In Ancient Greece, Phrygia, and Rome, there were galli priests that some scholars believe to have been trans women.
Hermaphrodites and real transsexuals have always existed in very small numbers. The current cult is about 30 years old and includes a much larger number of people who think they can act themselves into changing sex. There is a lot of money behind it. It would be better to put the money into Ulster hurling.
Cult. You really are a p***k
#projection
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 05:04:02 PM
:https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1628451056928817154
sorry - what's this?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 23, 2023, 05:38:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 05:04:02 PM
:https://mobile.twitter.com/billmaher/status/1628451056928817154
sorry - what's this?
It's a gay man talking about dating a trans man
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
There was a 16 year old trans girl murdered in England recently. She didn't have a safe space. Safe spaces are definitely a good thing. Not just for trans people but for anyone who feels they need it
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
So let me get this right, you think someone goes out of their way to be different to take flack and bullied to get attention?
Then go on about them getting protections? Why would they need protection or safe places ? Are they being bullied?
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 23, 2023, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 23, 2023, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 22, 2023, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2023, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 22, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
So transsexuals are really all would-be villains out to deceive the innocent public?
Sophisticated debating all right there lads.
I can identify as a f**king tree if i want, I'll still be as much of a tree as a man who identifies as a woman is one!
Except that humans have a varying range of developmental, physiological and other factors which contribute to their gender identity, none of which have anything to do with trees.
None of which trump the science of whats between your legs!
Where does hermaphrodites come in this science?
Yeah they make up a hugeeee percent of the population ffs
What percentage of the population do left handers make? Haemophiliacs? People with AB blood type? People who have a voice range of six octaves? IQs above 180? Or below 70? People who are above 7 feet tall? People who are allergic to water?
Are they all "against science"?
What are you on about
You're making some kind of argument on the basis of percent of the population.
Just making the bleeding obvious point that your point is utter nonsense.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
I personally know 4 teenagers who are identifying as a gender other than the one they were born with and my opinion, knowing their parents and their family dynamics, is that this is flat out attention seeking
This opinion is shared by several other parents who know these kids-and these parents are pretty much all Democrats and liberal even by Massachusetts standards
These kids who are transitioning are taking very little if any flak, because they are now a super protected class. Try and bully a transgender teen and you'll end up with civil rights charges
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
I personally know 4 teenagers who are identifying as a gender other than the one they were born with and my opinion, knowing their parents and their family dynamics, is that this is flat out attention seeking
This opinion is shared by several other parents who know these kids-and these parents are pretty much all Democrats and liberal even by Massachusetts standards
These kids who are transitioning are taking very little if any flak, because they are now a super protected class. Try and bully a transgender teen and you'll end up with civil rights charges
But that's just your opinion. And I'll be honest, I struggle to believe it. I think the fact that you know 4 transgender teenagers, and believe all 4 are doing it for attention says more about your outlook than theirs to be honest.
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
in the female prison there lies 75 women
It's among them I wish I did dwell
And the auld triangle went jingle jangle
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 08:34:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
I personally know 4 teenagers who are identifying as a gender other than the one they were born with and my opinion, knowing their parents and their family dynamics, is that this is flat out attention seeking
This opinion is shared by several other parents who know these kids-and these parents are pretty much all Democrats and liberal even by Massachusetts standards
These kids who are transitioning are taking very little if any flak, because they are now a super protected class. Try and bully a transgender teen and you'll end up with civil rights charges
But that's just your opinion. And I'll be honest, I struggle to believe it. I think the fact that you know 4 transgender teenagers, and believe all 4 are doing it for attention says more about your outlook than theirs to be honest.
It's gone completely insane here in Massachusetts
I personally know 4 as they were in my sons class-3 are boys who identify as girls and one is a girl identifying as a boy
I forgot about another one- girl who came out as bisexual-her significant other is a guy who identifies as a woman and a lesbian woman at that. So she's in a lesbian relationship with a biological guy
I know of about 6 others who are either trans or non binary-they are on the local paper every week
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PMculture war
I was worried you wouldn't get that phrase posted today - well done
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 23, 2023, 08:58:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PMculture war
I was worried you wouldn't get that phrase posted today - well done
He must get a quid for mentioning neoliberalism every time
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 08:34:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
I personally know 4 teenagers who are identifying as a gender other than the one they were born with and my opinion, knowing their parents and their family dynamics, is that this is flat out attention seeking
This opinion is shared by several other parents who know these kids-and these parents are pretty much all Democrats and liberal even by Massachusetts standards
These kids who are transitioning are taking very little if any flak, because they are now a super protected class. Try and bully a transgender teen and you'll end up with civil rights charges
But that's just your opinion. And I'll be honest, I struggle to believe it. I think the fact that you know 4 transgender teenagers, and believe all 4 are doing it for attention says more about your outlook than theirs to be honest.
It's gone completely insane here in Massachusetts
I personally know 4 as they were in my sons class-3 are boys who identify as girls and one is a girl identifying as a boy
I forgot about another one- girl who came out as bisexual-her significant other is a guy who identifies as a woman and a lesbian woman at that. So she's in a lesbian relationship with a biological guy
I know of about 6 others who are either trans or non binary-they are on the local paper every week
You're clearly trying to paint a picture that people go through the process of transitioning for attention. I call that complete bollix tbh. I think this is an opinion you've formed that's more to do with your outlook than theirs.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 23, 2023, 08:58:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PMculture war
I was worried you wouldn't get that phrase posted today - well done
If it was about genuine transsexuals I wouldn't care. But when murderers in prison claim to be women in order to get better conditions and mediocre men win female swimming titles and there is chaos in Primark unisex changing rooms it is a culture war against women. It's not about protecting a vulnerable minority.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 08:34:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
I personally know 4 teenagers who are identifying as a gender other than the one they were born with and my opinion, knowing their parents and their family dynamics, is that this is flat out attention seeking
This opinion is shared by several other parents who know these kids-and these parents are pretty much all Democrats and liberal even by Massachusetts standards
These kids who are transitioning are taking very little if any flak, because they are now a super protected class. Try and bully a transgender teen and you'll end up with civil rights charges
But that's just your opinion. And I'll be honest, I struggle to believe it. I think the fact that you know 4 transgender teenagers, and believe all 4 are doing it for attention says more about your outlook than theirs to be honest.
It's gone completely insane here in Massachusetts
I personally know 4 as they were in my sons class-3 are boys who identify as girls and one is a girl identifying as a boy
I forgot about another one- girl who came out as bisexual-her significant other is a guy who identifies as a woman and a lesbian woman at that. So she's in a lesbian relationship with a biological guy
I know of about 6 others who are either trans or non binary-they are on the local paper every week
You're clearly trying to paint a picture that people go through the process of transitioning for attention. I call that complete bollix tbh. I think this is an opinion you've formed that's more to do with your outlook than theirs.
Just to be clear, for now they are just identifying as the opposite gender-they dress as the opposite sex, changed their names and pronouns etc
No one had had surgery (yet)
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 09:27:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 08:34:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
I personally know 4 teenagers who are identifying as a gender other than the one they were born with and my opinion, knowing their parents and their family dynamics, is that this is flat out attention seeking
This opinion is shared by several other parents who know these kids-and these parents are pretty much all Democrats and liberal even by Massachusetts standards
These kids who are transitioning are taking very little if any flak, because they are now a super protected class. Try and bully a transgender teen and you'll end up with civil rights charges
But that's just your opinion. And I'll be honest, I struggle to believe it. I think the fact that you know 4 transgender teenagers, and believe all 4 are doing it for attention says more about your outlook than theirs to be honest.
It's gone completely insane here in Massachusetts
I personally know 4 as they were in my sons class-3 are boys who identify as girls and one is a girl identifying as a boy
I forgot about another one- girl who came out as bisexual-her significant other is a guy who identifies as a woman and a lesbian woman at that. So she's in a lesbian relationship with a biological guy
I know of about 6 others who are either trans or non binary-they are on the local paper every week
You're clearly trying to paint a picture that people go through the process of transitioning for attention. I call that complete bollix tbh. I think this is an opinion you've formed that's more to do with your outlook than theirs.
Just to be clear, for now they are just identifying as the opposite gender-they dress as the opposite sex, changed their names and pronouns etc
No one had had surgery (yet)
But still leaving themselves open for higher levels of abuse. Maybe they should hid it, just to save from being called an attention seeker!!
BTW 2 polarised groups on the board discussing a topic is the definition of a culture war.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 09:32:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 09:27:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 08:34:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
I personally know 4 teenagers who are identifying as a gender other than the one they were born with and my opinion, knowing their parents and their family dynamics, is that this is flat out attention seeking
This opinion is shared by several other parents who know these kids-and these parents are pretty much all Democrats and liberal even by Massachusetts standards
These kids who are transitioning are taking very little if any flak, because they are now a super protected class. Try and bully a transgender teen and you'll end up with civil rights charges
But that's just your opinion. And I'll be honest, I struggle to believe it. I think the fact that you know 4 transgender teenagers, and believe all 4 are doing it for attention says more about your outlook than theirs to be honest.
It's gone completely insane here in Massachusetts
I personally know 4 as they were in my sons class-3 are boys who identify as girls and one is a girl identifying as a boy
I forgot about another one- girl who came out as bisexual-her significant other is a guy who identifies as a woman and a lesbian woman at that. So she's in a lesbian relationship with a biological guy
I know of about 6 others who are either trans or non binary-they are on the local paper every week
You're clearly trying to paint a picture that people go through the process of transitioning for attention. I call that complete bollix tbh. I think this is an opinion you've formed that's more to do with your outlook than theirs.
Just to be clear, for now they are just identifying as the opposite gender-they dress as the opposite sex, changed their names and pronouns etc
No one had had surgery (yet)
But still leaving themselves open for higher levels of abuse. Maybe they should hid it, just to save from being called an attention seeker!!
Who's calling them attention seekers ? (to their faces)
That's just my opinion (one shared by plenty of others too)
What would I have to gain by bullying or confronting a transgender teen?
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 09:42:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 09:32:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 09:27:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 08:34:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 07:18:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 06:01:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 23, 2023, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on February 23, 2023, 02:56:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 23, 2023, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2023, 07:24:16 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2023, 11:58:35 PM
I know 4 transgender teenagers and I regret to say in all 4 cases it's flat out attention seeking
Aye, dead on!!
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)
It's alot more popular in America than people in Europe realise. And its growing rapidly.
Again I'll go back to a post I put up earlier, no one chooses to be different and then take all the flack that comes with it, yes it's easier to deal with nowadays that 20 years ago, but if you think this is a trend like the New romantics or Punk then I don't know what to say!
There are better ways to get attention with less comebacks
Take all the flack? Are you on drugs?
No one can look at you sideways if you identify as non binary or transgender?
They have an "affinity" club up at the high school with safe spaces and funding for all types of programs and participating in conferences....etc
And yet they receive multiple times more cases of abuse. Maybe that is why safe spaces are needed?
Last year, there was a scuffle outside a high school basketball game and a trans student was verbally and physically assaulted (pushed/shoved but did not sustain any injuries)
The teenagers involved were charged with hate crimes and hypothetically could have gotten 10 years in jail. Anyone who'd harass of assault a trans or non binary person is in for a world of hurt....and rightly so
Again, punishments may be required to deal with the much higher numbers of abuse these people suffer. That could be why safe spaces are required. What's the issue with a safe space anyway? Seriously?
Who said I have an issue with it?
I think it's great
Someone made a comment about trans/non binary people "getting flak"-part of my response was that they have all types of protections including safe spaces (that other bullied people don't have)
My point is that those safe spaces are obviously needed due to the level of abuse. It kind of shows how it's not an easy decision to make and I doubt many do it out of attention seeking.
I personally know 4 teenagers who are identifying as a gender other than the one they were born with and my opinion, knowing their parents and their family dynamics, is that this is flat out attention seeking
This opinion is shared by several other parents who know these kids-and these parents are pretty much all Democrats and liberal even by Massachusetts standards
These kids who are transitioning are taking very little if any flak, because they are now a super protected class. Try and bully a transgender teen and you'll end up with civil rights charges
But that's just your opinion. And I'll be honest, I struggle to believe it. I think the fact that you know 4 transgender teenagers, and believe all 4 are doing it for attention says more about your outlook than theirs to be honest.
It's gone completely insane here in Massachusetts
I personally know 4 as they were in my sons class-3 are boys who identify as girls and one is a girl identifying as a boy
I forgot about another one- girl who came out as bisexual-her significant other is a guy who identifies as a woman and a lesbian woman at that. So she's in a lesbian relationship with a biological guy
I know of about 6 others who are either trans or non binary-they are on the local paper every week
You're clearly trying to paint a picture that people go through the process of transitioning for attention. I call that complete bollix tbh. I think this is an opinion you've formed that's more to do with your outlook than theirs.
Just to be clear, for now they are just identifying as the opposite gender-they dress as the opposite sex, changed their names and pronouns etc
No one had had surgery (yet)
But still leaving themselves open for higher levels of abuse. Maybe they should hid it, just to save from being called an attention seeker!!
Who's calling them attention seekers ? (to their faces)
That's just my opinion (one shared by plenty of others too)
What would I have to gain by bullying or confronting a transgender teen?
I'm talking about your opinion ffs.
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Again, how will it affect your life?
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Zero sum game..... one more for seafoid bullshit bingo
Quote from: thebigfella on February 23, 2023, 10:08:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Zero sum game..... one more for seafoid bullshit bingo
Do you even know what a zero sum game is bigfella ?
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Again, how will it affect your life?
How will it affect your life is a version of you cannot talk about football unless you play football.
I am interested in social issues and I read about stuff. The trans project is reactionary and misogynistic. The idea that any man can self ID as a woman is insane. It has something to do with our individualistic society. I feel sorry for teenagers undergoing trans surgery. Life is very long and social priorities shift.
Where did all the money behind this project come from ?
Labour are going to lose a lot of votes in the next election because of this issue. Women are really pissed off.
https://youtu.be/94HFMSm-JBo&t=5220
https://youtu.be/94HFMSm-JBo&t=5441s
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:39:58 PM
BTW 2 polarised groups on the board discussing a topic is the definition of a culture war.
Can't wait till the Tyrone Armagh match. Mighty culture war that'll be.
QuoteWhere did all the money behind this project come from ?
Bill Gates, George Soros and the WEF
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 10:50:08 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Again, how will it affect your life?
How will it affect your life is a version of you cannot talk about football unless you play football.
I am interested in social issues and I read about stuff. The trans project is reactionary and misogynistic. The idea that any man can self ID as a woman is insane. It has something to do with our individualistic society. I feel sorry for teenagers undergoing trans surgery. Life is very long and social priorities shift.
Where did all the money behind this project come from ?
Labour are going to lose a lot of votes in the next election because of this issue. Women are really pissed off.
https://youtu.be/94HFMSm-JBo&t=5220
https://youtu.be/94HFMSm-JBo&t=5441s
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers.
You've lost it
The Irish Labour Party or the uk Labour Party?
So how does that part of your post seafoid even concern you?
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Again, how will it affect your life?
What a saddening approach to such a serious issue.
Do you take the same approach with Gay Rights and Women's Rights in the Middle East? Won't affect your life so you just don't bother to think about it?
Ridiculous.
Quote from: jmcgdoire on February 24, 2023, 07:56:59 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Again, how will it affect your life?
What a saddening approach to such a serious issue.
Do you take the same approach with Gay Rights and Women's Rights in the Middle East? Won't affect your life so you just don't bother to think about it?
Ridiculous.
You clearly haven't been following along have you. Seafoid, for some reason, has a serious dislike of trans people. They may even be considered transphobic. I asked them why they invest so much time in something the clearly dislike when it won't make a difference in their lives.
I consider myself an LGBT ally. FWIW
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 10:37:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 23, 2023, 10:08:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Zero sum game..... one more for seafoid bullshit bingo
Do you even know what a zero sum game is bigfella ?
No, can you enlighten me without using "culture war" or "neoliberalism' ;D
Quote from: thebigfella on February 24, 2023, 11:31:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 10:37:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 23, 2023, 10:08:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 09:52:20 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 23, 2023, 08:29:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
Nobody has to transition to be trans. 90% don't. So any man can announce that he is a woman and have access to the henhouse
or compete in female sports.
Any woman can claim to be a man and ask gay men for a shag. There is no quality control.
Any man in prison can claim to be a woman in order to move to the female space.
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do than spout about what people, who will have absolutely no impact on your life, do with their lives?
I have a wife and I have a daughter . How many trans in your family ?
Anyway this bullshit will die with neoliberalism. It's nothing more than a culture war.
A wife and a daughter? What's your point? Unless you are saying they are trans?
The point is that trans rights such as self ID and female rights such as safe spaces have become a zero sum game.
Someone decided this.
Zero sum game..... one more for seafoid bullshit bingo
Do you even know what a zero sum game is bigfella ?
No, can you enlighten me without using "culture war" or "neoliberalism' ;D
it means that one side can only win if the other side loses.
The opposite would be a situation where both sides can win.
The whole trans situation is really getting out of hand, and its becoming dangerous. When these trans people can enter into changing rooms and bathrooms of the opposite sex then this is very worrying and potentially dangerous.
Anyone who agrees with the whole trans thing really needs their head looked at. These people are mentally unwell, i can't walk into the bank and ask for 1 million quid, because I identify as a millionaire. You are born with a set of reproductive organs and a DNA trail of a certain gender 99.9% of the time(i know there is a small chance you can be born with both sex organs). To then turn around and say you identify as something other than your biological makeup has be down to a mental disorder. These people think in their heads they are something other than they are.
These trans people are a very small percentage of the population, and the majority of the rest of the population is having their human rights violated to uphold the crazy rights these trans people are expecting.
I know this might come across s offensive to some people, and this has not been my intention. I am really curious to what others think about the whole situation??
Quote from: samuel maguire on February 27, 2023, 09:57:35 AM
The whole trans situation is really getting out of hand, and its becoming dangerous. When these trans people can enter into changing rooms and bathrooms of the opposite sex then this is very worrying and potentially dangerous.
Anyone who agrees with the whole trans thing really needs their head looked at. These people are mentally unwell, i can't walk into the bank and ask for 1 million quid, because I identify as a millionaire. You are born with a set of reproductive organs and a DNA trail of a certain gender 99.9% of the time(i know there is a small chance you can be born with both sex organs). To then turn around and say you identify as something other than your biological makeup has be down to a mental disorder. These people think in their heads they are something other than they are.
These trans people are a very small percentage of the population, and the majority of the rest of the population is having their human rights violated to uphold the crazy rights these trans people are expecting.
I know this might come across s offensive to some people, and this has not been my intention. I am really curious to what others think about the whole situation??
Read the thread
Quote from: samuel maguire on February 27, 2023, 09:57:35 AM
The whole trans situation is really getting out of hand, and its becoming dangerous. When these trans people can enter into changing rooms and bathrooms of the opposite sex then this is very worrying and potentially dangerous.
Anyone who agrees with the whole trans thing really needs their head looked at. These people are mentally unwell, i can't walk into the bank and ask for 1 million quid, because I identify as a millionaire. You are born with a set of reproductive organs and a DNA trail of a certain gender 99.9% of the time(i know there is a small chance you can be born with both sex organs). To then turn around and say you identify as something other than your biological makeup has be down to a mental disorder. These people think in their heads they are something other than they are.
These trans people are a very small percentage of the population, and the majority of the rest of the population is having their human rights violated to uphold the crazy rights these trans people are expecting.
I know this might come across s offensive to some people, and this has not been my intention. I am really curious to what others think about the whole situation??
What's your views on people that are gay? Mental disorder or attention seekers?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2023, 07:29:19 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on February 27, 2023, 09:57:35 AM
The whole trans situation is really getting out of hand, and its becoming dangerous. When these trans people can enter into changing rooms and bathrooms of the opposite sex then this is very worrying and potentially dangerous.
Anyone who agrees with the whole trans thing really needs their head looked at. These people are mentally unwell, i can't walk into the bank and ask for 1 million quid, because I identify as a millionaire. You are born with a set of reproductive organs and a DNA trail of a certain gender 99.9% of the time(i know there is a small chance you can be born with both sex organs). To then turn around and say you identify as something other than your biological makeup has be down to a mental disorder. These people think in their heads they are something other than they are.
These trans people are a very small percentage of the population, and the majority of the rest of the population is having their human rights violated to uphold the crazy rights these trans people are expecting.
I know this might come across s offensive to some people, and this has not been my intention. I am really curious to what others think about the whole situation??
What's your views on people that are gay? Mental disorder or attention seekers?
Again, why do people conflate these two things? You'll be talking about abortion next...
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 01, 2023, 07:37:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2023, 07:29:19 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on February 27, 2023, 09:57:35 AM
The whole trans situation is really getting out of hand, and its becoming dangerous. When these trans people can enter into changing rooms and bathrooms of the opposite sex then this is very worrying and potentially dangerous.
Anyone who agrees with the whole trans thing really needs their head looked at. These people are mentally unwell, i can't walk into the bank and ask for 1 million quid, because I identify as a millionaire. You are born with a set of reproductive organs and a DNA trail of a certain gender 99.9% of the time(i know there is a small chance you can be born with both sex organs). To then turn around and say you identify as something other than your biological makeup has be down to a mental disorder. These people think in their heads they are something other than they are.
These trans people are a very small percentage of the population, and the majority of the rest of the population is having their human rights violated to uphold the crazy rights these trans people are expecting.
I know this might come across s offensive to some people, and this has not been my intention. I am really curious to what others think about the whole situation??
What's your views on people that are gay? Mental disorder or attention seekers?
Again, why do people conflate these two things? You'll be talking about abortion next...
I'm just asking him, not you, he's a big lad, I'm sure he can answer for himself.
I'd be keen to hear his views on something that isn't the 'norm'
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 01, 2023, 07:37:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2023, 07:29:19 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on February 27, 2023, 09:57:35 AM
The whole trans situation is really getting out of hand, and its becoming dangerous. When these trans people can enter into changing rooms and bathrooms of the opposite sex then this is very worrying and potentially dangerous.
Anyone who agrees with the whole trans thing really needs their head looked at. These people are mentally unwell, i can't walk into the bank and ask for 1 million quid, because I identify as a millionaire. You are born with a set of reproductive organs and a DNA trail of a certain gender 99.9% of the time(i know there is a small chance you can be born with both sex organs). To then turn around and say you identify as something other than your biological makeup has be down to a mental disorder. These people think in their heads they are something other than they are.
These trans people are a very small percentage of the population, and the majority of the rest of the population is having their human rights violated to uphold the crazy rights these trans people are expecting.
I know this might come across s offensive to some people, and this has not been my intention. I am really curious to what others think about the whole situation??
What's your views on people that are gay? Mental disorder or attention seekers?
Again, why do people conflate these two things? You'll be talking about abortion next...
Leaving aside the bona fides of the poster Samuel maguire, it's a perfectly legitimate question.
The same shit was leveled at gay people for years and years. Still is by some.
If the trans phenomenon is not different to gays or lesbians a generation ago, why are so many gays and lesbians opposed to it ?
Simon Fanshawe was one of the founders of Stonewall, a gay and lesbian lobby group which was subsequently taken over by trans lobbyists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUUdhe6GdPA&t=7s
He used to be on That's Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyyf8PWFA6U
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
If he isn't an Angelo type poster I'll eat my hat!!
Talks about small percentages... What percentages does he think recognise as being gay?
What's peoples views on other trans movements. People who claim to be Transracial and Transabled just for an example.Are these people also to be taken seriously? I mean what's the difference between wanting to chop your penis off and wanting to chop your arm off so you can be disabled?
I think a lot of it is actual mental illness.
So there's a "movement " out there of people wanting to chop their arms off so they too can be disabled??
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:26:54 AM
So there's a "movement " out there of people wanting to chop their arms off so they too can be disabled??
Well there are people who identity as those things so what's your opinion on them?
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
Yeah and in Scotland you don't have to chop anything off, you just say you are a woman now by "self identifying" and away you go
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:26:54 AM
So there's a "movement " out there of people wanting to chop their arms off so they too can be disabled??
Well there are people who identity as those things so what's your opinion on them?
I would hope you need a medical confirmation to back up your request for a disabled parking pass.
Aside from that I don't have much of an opinion at all.
Homosexuality was once officially written off as mental illness. Did you agree with that?
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
So your only objection is transwomen in women's sport?
Transmen fine? Transwomen fine outside of sports (and convicted rapists in prison)?
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:26:54 AM
So there's a "movement " out there of people wanting to chop their arms off so they too can be disabled??
Well there are people who identity as those things so what's your opinion on them?
I would hope you need a medical confirmation to back up your request for a disabled parking pass.
Aside from that I don't have much of an opinion at all.
Homosexuality was once officially written off as mental illness. Did you agree with that?
Find it strange you don't have an opinion on it. Do you think these people who identify as transabled for example should taken seriously?
Do you think it's genuine or a mental illness that person may have? It's a pretty simple question.
Like above RedHand88, I'm not sure what homosexuality has to do with trans anything, but to answer your question no I don't agree with homosexuality being considered a mental illness but then as I said it's a completely different topic to transgenderism or transabledism or transracialism...etc etc etc
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:46:22 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
So your only objection is transwomen in women's sport?
Transmen fine? Transwomen fine outside of sports (and convicted rapists in prison)?
Did you read my post? See bolded there...
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 01, 2023, 10:39:18 AM
Yeah and in Scotland you don't have to chop anything off, you just say you are a woman now by "self identifying" and away you go
You'd have to wonder where it all stops. Now I'm not talking about people identifying as a tree ffs, but I mean if you identify as being disabled, and you feel you were born into the wrong body as an abled person, should you be allowed to claim disability for example? What difference is there to someone, a man for example,saying they were born into the wrong body and they feel they are female.?
It's no different is it? Or you identify as being black even though you were born into a white body.
Those that support these trans people( whatever trans you may be) do you have a point where you think a line has been crossed or should everything just be accepted? Once again I'm not talking about nutters who claim they identify as broccoli.
It's all about "my truth" and "my lived experience" as Harry Windsor would say, nothing needs to be true anymore, just that you feel it is
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
So if its fine and does zero issues why be concerned, there are lots of people that take the piss out of systems.. You have men in sports that cheat in all manner of forms, but it sounds good though
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Sharing a dressing room with someone of the same sex is very different to doing so with someone of the opposite sex.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 12:11:37 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Sharing a dressing room with someone of the same sex is very different to doing so with someone of the opposite sex.
Have you been to any unisex changing rooms? they have an open bit and cubicles all around them and its ok, no one dies
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2023, 11:22:06 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
So if its fine and does zero issues why be concerned, there are lots of people that take the piss out of systems.. You have men in sports that cheat in all manner of forms, but it sounds good though
Yes but they end up banned, not celebrated for cheating.
That is the difference.
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 10:51:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:26:54 AM
So there's a "movement " out there of people wanting to chop their arms off so they too can be disabled??
Well there are people who identity as those things so what's your opinion on them?
I would hope you need a medical confirmation to back up your request for a disabled parking pass.
Aside from that I don't have much of an opinion at all.
Homosexuality was once officially written off as mental illness. Did you agree with that?
Find it strange you don't have an opinion on it. Do you think these people who identify as transabled for example should taken seriously?
Do you think it's genuine or a mental illness that person may have? It's a pretty simple question.
Like above RedHand88, I'm not sure what homosexuality has to do with trans anything, but to answer your question no I don't agree with homosexuality being considered a mental illness but then as I said it's a completely different topic to transgenderism or transabledism or transracialism...etc etc etc
Why would you find it strange that I don't have an opinion on the "transabled".
I'm not sure I've ever heard before of someone being transabled, therefore I have no information to go on, which means any "opinion" I might have would be totally uninformed, ignorant and completely worthless.
The relevance of homosexuality being considered a mental illness is that is was considered just that, medically, until the 1970s. It was only decriminalized in Ireland 30 years ago FFS. Paisley was campaigning on "Save Ulster From Sodomy" just over 40 years ago. The AIDS epidemic was basically ignored when it first arose because it only affected themmuns i.e. gay people. Took until the 2000s for sodomy to be found legal in a Supreme Court decision in the US.
If you can't see the parallels...
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:57:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:46:22 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
So your only objection is transwomen in women's sport?
Transmen fine? Transwomen fine outside of sports (and convicted rapists in prison)?
Did you read my post? See bolded there...
That makes you a bleeding heart liberal compared to some of the others here.
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:38:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:57:49 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:46:22 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
So your only objection is transwomen in women's sport?
Transmen fine? Transwomen fine outside of sports (and convicted rapists in prison)?
Did you read my post? See bolded there...
That makes you a bleeding heart liberal compared to some of the others here.
🤣🤣🤣
Sporty young girls play sports with boys until age 12/13. Many drop out of sport altogether at that age. Female sport has to fight to keep them playing. And now the LGFA is allowing men in.
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
Protected. Category.
How do people not get this?! It's the exact same argument as the morons who turn round and say "should tall people be banned from playing basketball?"
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 01, 2023, 12:29:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2023, 11:22:06 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
So if its fine and does zero issues why be concerned, there are lots of people that take the piss out of systems.. You have men in sports that cheat in all manner of forms, but it sounds good though
Yes but they end up banned, not celebrated for cheating.
That is the difference.
If caught they get banned, but keep coming back.
Is it ok if a woman who identifies as a man plays in a male sport?
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 01, 2023, 10:39:18 AM
Yeah and in Scotland you don't have to chop anything off, you just say you are a woman now by "self identifying" and away you go
You'd have to wonder where it all stops. Now I'm not talking about people identifying as a tree ffs, but I mean if you identify as being disabled, and you feel you were born into the wrong body as an abled person, should you be allowed to claim disability for example? What difference is there to someone, a man for example,saying they were born into the wrong body and they feel they are female.?
It's no different is it? Or you identify as being black even though you were born into a white body.
Those that support these trans people( whatever trans you may be) do you have a point where you think a line has been crossed or should everything just be accepted? Once again I'm not talking about nutters who claim they identify as broccoli.
Could I get away with identifying as a dog? And instead of shaking hands with people, I'd be allowed to lick their hand/face, hump their leg and piss on their shoes? And I insist on having my own doggy toilet and car parking space. And if you don't address/recognise me properly as a dog , I could instigate cases against employers, restaurants, businesses etc for not pandering to my doggy needs
I mean , at what point does pandering stop and the men in the white coats drag me away?
I find it strange that in an age of so much talk of mental health , that so much bonkers behaviour is tolerated too
All you have to do is tilt your head and self identify as a woman.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2023, 01:14:01 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 01, 2023, 12:29:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2023, 11:22:06 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 01, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
"Imagine sharing a dressing room with them"
"Imagine sharing a communal shower with them"
"Imagine having to mark or tackle them"
"They're disgusting"
Regular comments from people 20+ years ago about gay people, regular comments today about trans people.
Completely different issues and comparing them/lumping both into the same category is making a mockery of the whole gay/lesbian rights movement. Whoever you are having sex with isn't gonna affect how fast you can run/how hard you can punch etc but if you've grown up as a man and suddenly decided you want chop bits off yourself and identify as a woman then no problem but that doesn't mean you should get access to womens changing rooms or be able to compete against them in sport.
Being gay/lesbian is fine- it does zero harm to other people. Being trans is fine- as long as it doesn't negatively affect other people especially through safety issues in sport.
Look at that rapist in Scotland who decided he was a woman after raping 2 women? Madness.
So if its fine and does zero issues why be concerned, there are lots of people that take the piss out of systems.. You have men in sports that cheat in all manner of forms, but it sounds good though
Yes but they end up banned, not celebrated for cheating.
That is the difference.
If caught they get banned, but keep coming back.
Is it ok if a woman who identifies as a man plays in a male sport?
No.
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 01, 2023, 10:39:18 AM
Yeah and in Scotland you don't have to chop anything off, you just say you are a woman now by "self identifying" and away you go
You'd have to wonder where it all stops. Now I'm not talking about people identifying as a tree ffs, but I mean if you identify as being disabled, and you feel you were born into the wrong body as an abled person, should you be allowed to claim disability for example? What difference is there to someone, a man for example,saying they were born into the wrong body and they feel they are female.?
It's no different is it? Or you identify as being black even though you were born into a white body.
Those that support these trans people( whatever trans you may be) do you have a point where you think a line has been crossed or should everything just be accepted? Once again I'm not talking about nutters who claim they identify as broccoli.
I'm ok with people living their own lives in whatever way that keeps them happy. I am very comfortable within my own skin to respect their right to live that life, however the line I won't cross is when someone thinks that it is their right for a trans man competing in woman sports because of how they identify. Its not ok, its wrong, its unfair. Create a trans category and play way. You never hear about a woman who is transitioning to a man wanting to compete in the equilivant mans sport. Wonder why?
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:30:37 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 10:51:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:26:54 AM
So there's a "movement " out there of people wanting to chop their arms off so they too can be disabled??
Well there are people who identity as those things so what's your opinion on them?
I would hope you need a medical confirmation to back up your request for a disabled parking pass.
Aside from that I don't have much of an opinion at all.
Homosexuality was once officially written off as mental illness. Did you agree with that?
Find it strange you don't have an opinion on it. Do you think these people who identify as transabled for example should taken seriously?
Do you think it's genuine or a mental illness that person may have? It's a pretty simple question.
Like above RedHand88, I'm not sure what homosexuality has to do with trans anything, but to answer your question no I don't agree with homosexuality being considered a mental illness but then as I said it's a completely different topic to transgenderism or transabledism or transracialism...etc etc etc
Why would you find it strange that I don't have an opinion on the "transabled".
I'm not sure I've ever heard before of someone being transabled, therefore I have no information to go on, which means any "opinion" I might have would be totally uninformed, ignorant and completely worthless.
The relevance of homosexuality being considered a mental illness is that is was considered just that, medically, until the 1970s. It was only decriminalized in Ireland 30 years ago FFS. Paisley was campaigning on "Save Ulster From Sodomy" just over 40 years ago. The AIDS epidemic was basically ignored when it first arose because it only affected themmuns i.e. gay people. Took until the 2000s for sodomy to be found legal in a Supreme Court decision in the US.
If you can't see the parallels...
Why do I find it strange?Just from reading this thread you seem to have an opinion on and are an advocate for all things trans so I was surprised who hadn't an opinion or even apparently never heard of other types of "trans" people
So now that you have heard of it(Transablism)and even a quick google will tell you these people exist, what is your opinion on someone identifying as such? Should we view it the same way as transgenderism and try and accommodate these people, maybe allow surgeries to amputate limbs or whatever?
I fail to see the difference between someone believing they were born into the wrong body be it an abled bodied person believing they should be disabled or a male believing they were female, why accommodate one and not the other. So if we allow people to change gender via surgery why not allow someone to become physically disabled by removing a leg or an arm?
What about transracialism should a white person for example who identifies as black be accepted as being such? They exist also another quick google search will confirm that for you.
Have you a line that can be crossed or is everything and everyone acceptable in this new trans world.
Why can't ye just accept that we're all humans and get on with ye're lives?
A few here would feel at home in Iran's morality police!
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:26:24 PM
All you have to do is tilt your head and self identify as a woman.
christ - what a tedious bore you are.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:26:24 PM
All you have to do is tilt your head and self identify as a woman.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:12:22 PM
Sporty young girls play sports with boys until age 12/13. Many drop out of sport altogether at that age. Female sport has to fight to keep them playing. And now the LGFA is allowing men in.
After a year of hormone treatment at a minimum but you knew that.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2023, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:26:24 PM
All you have to do is tilt your head and self identify as a woman.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:12:22 PM
Sporty young girls play sports with boys until age 12/13. Many drop out of sport altogether at that age. Female sport has to fight to keep them playing. And now the LGFA is allowing men in.
After a year of hormone treatment at a minimum but you knew that.
And that makes it ok? Surely your not advocating that?
Gay population has probably remained the same throughout the last 20 years but Trans population is exploding in that period if you believe some people, why would that be ?
Quote from: shawshank on March 01, 2023, 03:00:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2023, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:26:24 PM
All you have to do is tilt your head and self identify as a woman.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:12:22 PM
Sporty young girls play sports with boys until age 12/13. Many drop out of sport altogether at that age. Female sport has to fight to keep them playing. And now the LGFA is allowing men in.
After a year of hormone treatment at a minimum but you knew that.
And that makes it ok? Surely your not advocating that?
I'm sure he'd preferred they went to the funny farm to have their heads examined, due to the culture war that is going on!!
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2023, 03:04:38 PM
Gay population has probably remained the same throughout the last 20 years but Trans population is exploding in that period if you believe some people, why would that be ?
Gay population is 8% Trans less than 1% but exploded, like Mica Richards exploding onto the England team!
Quote from: shawshank on March 01, 2023, 03:00:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2023, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:26:24 PM
All you have to do is tilt your head and self identify as a woman.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:12:22 PM
Sporty young girls play sports with boys until age 12/13. Many drop out of sport altogether at that age. Female sport has to fight to keep them playing. And now the LGFA is allowing men in.
After a year of hormone treatment at a minimum but you knew that.
And that makes it ok? Surely your not advocating that?
I'm saying its not just a matter of putting your hair in pigtails and having a clean shave as Seafoid was implying..
I think this is a very grey area and the LFGA are having an attempt to address an issue, perceived or otherwise and they're basing their criteria on testosterone levels used in some other sports.
There's other scientific evidence that there's a 10% drop in strength and speed once a born male goes through testosterone reducing treatment, obviously bone structure is still there.
I'm not saying it's right but lets not simply what is a very complex issue.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2023, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:26:24 PM
All you have to do is tilt your head and self identify as a woman.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:12:22 PM
Sporty young girls play sports with boys until age 12/13. Many drop out of sport altogether at that age. Female sport has to fight to keep them playing. And now the LGFA is allowing men in.
After a year of hormone treatment at a minimum but you knew that.
Does one year of hormones negate male puberty? Of course it doesn't.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 03:21:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2023, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:26:24 PM
All you have to do is tilt your head and self identify as a woman.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 01:12:22 PM
Sporty young girls play sports with boys until age 12/13. Many drop out of sport altogether at that age. Female sport has to fight to keep them playing. And now the LGFA is allowing men in.
After a year of hormone treatment at a minimum but you knew that.
Does one year of hormones negate male puberty? Of course it doesn't.
Who's saying it does?
It's doesn't matter what the rules are. They are not women and will never be.
The LGFA apparently went on a solo run on this.
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 01:37:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:30:37 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 10:51:22 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:41:36 AM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 10:26:54 AM
So there's a "movement " out there of people wanting to chop their arms off so they too can be disabled??
Well there are people who identity as those things so what's your opinion on them?
I would hope you need a medical confirmation to back up your request for a disabled parking pass.
Aside from that I don't have much of an opinion at all.
Homosexuality was once officially written off as mental illness. Did you agree with that?
Find it strange you don't have an opinion on it. Do you think these people who identify as transabled for example should taken seriously?
Do you think it's genuine or a mental illness that person may have? It's a pretty simple question.
Like above RedHand88, I'm not sure what homosexuality has to do with trans anything, but to answer your question no I don't agree with homosexuality being considered a mental illness but then as I said it's a completely different topic to transgenderism or transabledism or transracialism...etc etc etc
Why would you find it strange that I don't have an opinion on the "transabled".
I'm not sure I've ever heard before of someone being transabled, therefore I have no information to go on, which means any "opinion" I might have would be totally uninformed, ignorant and completely worthless.
The relevance of homosexuality being considered a mental illness is that is was considered just that, medically, until the 1970s. It was only decriminalized in Ireland 30 years ago FFS. Paisley was campaigning on "Save Ulster From Sodomy" just over 40 years ago. The AIDS epidemic was basically ignored when it first arose because it only affected themmuns i.e. gay people. Took until the 2000s for sodomy to be found legal in a Supreme Court decision in the US.
If you can't see the parallels...
Why do I find it strange?Just from reading this thread you seem to have an opinion on and are an advocate for all things trans so I was surprised who hadn't an opinion or even apparently never heard of other types of "trans" people
So now that you have heard of it(Transablism)and even a quick google will tell you these people exist, what is your opinion on someone identifying as such? Should we view it the same way as transgenderism and try and accommodate these people, maybe allow surgeries to amputate limbs or whatever?
I fail to see the difference between someone believing they were born into the wrong body be it an abled bodied person believing they should be disabled or a male believing they were female, why accommodate one and not the other. So if we allow people to change gender via surgery why not allow someone to become physically disabled by removing a leg or an arm?
What about transracialism should a white person for example who identifies as black be accepted as being such? They exist also another quick google search will confirm that for you.
Have you a line that can be crossed or is everything and everyone acceptable in this new trans world.
Not so much an advocate for all things trans as a devil's advocate pointing out the problems with the anti-transsexual absolutism. I've said several times that this is a very difficult issue and there are no easy answers. My issue is with those who bring poorly supported certainty to their insistence on denying the legitimacy of these people.
If you want to discuss transable and transracial people, knock yourself out. We heard the same slippery slope arguments for years on the likes of gay marriage. "Where does it end? Next thing they'll be looking to marry their dog or their sheep. Or to legalize paedophilia!"
Just as I expected, you did everything but answer the questions I asked. No problem if you don't want to, that's fine but don't reply at all rather than ignore the questions asked, though not answering them tells me all I need to know anyway.
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 03:43:45 PM
It's doesn't matter what the rules are. They are not women and will never be.
The LGFA apparently went on a solo run on this.
policy downstream from the culture war
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Transsexuality and trans are 2 different concepts.
People are born transsexual. Trans can be self ID into being.
There was a discussion on OTB on Sunday about trans. One of the points was that a generation ago nobody paid much attention to Jan Morris. Another was that self ID is the law of the land. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNoLeOn1_kc
Laws can be changed behind closed doors. Not everything goes to a referendum.
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 04:14:06 PM
Just as I expected, you did everything but answer the questions I asked. No problem if you don't want to, that's fine but don't reply at all rather than ignore the questions asked, though not answering them tells me all I need to know anyway.
So failing to spout nonsense on something I know zilch about is telling to you, is it?
Sure go ahead and tell us why transsexuality is equivalent to those other issues. Do they all have the same biological basis, whether developmental or hormonal or some pathological brain chemical problem? Is something else at play that unites them ?
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Transsexuality and trans are 2 different concepts.
People are born transsexual. Trans can be self ID into being.
I don't know what that means.
What is a transsexual by your definition?
If you all want to get really confused check out Libs of Tik Tok on Twitter
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 01, 2023, 10:39:18 AM
Yeah and in Scotland you don't have to chop anything off, you just say you are a woman now by "self identifying" and away you go
You'd have to wonder where it all stops. Now I'm not talking about people identifying as a tree ffs, but I mean if you identify as being disabled, and you feel you were born into the wrong body as an abled person, should you be allowed to claim disability for example? What difference is there to someone, a man for example,saying they were born into the wrong body and they feel they are female.?
It's no different is it? Or you identify as being black even though you were born into a white body.
Those that support these trans people( whatever trans you may be) do you have a point where you think a line has been crossed or should everything just be accepted? Once again I'm not talking about nutters who claim they identify as broccoli.
I don't care what someone else wishes are if they don't impact me. If someone is transabled, so be it. It's their call. Should they automatically get disability, no. It should be assessed. Some transabled people go through operations as they have a disorder known as Body Integrity Identity Disorder which causes a person to feel as if they should be physically disabled in some way, like some part of their body or senses shouldn't be there. It may be a neurological disability, but it's still a disability.
I know it sounds crazy to me. I can't get my head around someone feeling like that. But just denying it exists is pointless. Will there be some abuse of this. Most definitely, but then we know there is easier ways to abuse disability welfare and we see countless examples of this everyday.
I would ask, for people who deny the various trans movements, what would they suggest to these peoples as alternative means to live their life?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 01, 2023, 03:04:38 PM
Gay population has probably remained the same throughout the last 20 years but Trans population is exploding in that period if you believe some people, why would that be ?
Gay population is 8% Trans less than 1% but exploded, like Mica Richards exploding onto the England team!
in a country of 30m a .1% would be 30k if it went up to .9% it would be 270k that would be an explosive increase to me and all correlated to the youth's obsession with tik tok and instagram and other social media . There are genuine people of course but mostly confused young people with parents who want to be their friend and not a parent and huge increase in mental illness in western countries.
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 06:25:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 01, 2023, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Transsexuality and trans are 2 different concepts.
People are born transsexual. Trans can be self ID into being.
I don't know what that means.
What is a transsexual by your definition?
Transsexual is the old definition. Someone who experiences a gender identity that is inconsistent with their assigned sex, and desire to permanently transition to the sex or gender with which they identify. Would have surgery.
Trans is anyone who self IDs . Without self ID you would just have transsexuals. With self ID the population is much bigger and includes some very challenging groups such as AGPs .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology
Blanchard's transsexualism typology is a proposed psychological typology of gender dysphoria, transsexualism, and fetishistic transvestism, created by sexologist Ray Blanchard through the 1980s and 1990s, building on the work of earlier researchers, including his colleague Kurt Freund. Blanchard categorized trans women into two groups: homosexual transsexuals who are attracted exclusively to men and are feminine in both behavior and appearance; and autogynephilic transsexuals who experience sexual arousal at the idea of having a female body (autogynephilia)(AGP)
AGPs (autogynophiles) get turned on by presenting as women in female spaces. But that can't turn anyone into a woman in the reality spectrum. It's some form of narcissism. Plus it's literally bollocks. That's one of the reasons I can't see the trans thing lasting.
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Yes, Rugby sees 11 stone players vs 22 stone players.
Basketball has seen 5'3" 9 stone players vs 25 stone 7'1" players.
Did anyone ask for the bigger players to be banned for 'safety concerns'?
People think the Ladies Football scene is going to be flooded with 6'4" 14 stone transwomen. People just looking to invent scenarios just to suit their own transphobia. Transphobes are no different to racists, homophobes and even flat-earthers - no listening to any rational by them, they've their mind made up and no counter argument is going to change their mind.
What about female to male trans players wanting to play men's sports? Are there safety concerns for them? Purely anecdotal but I've seen a lot more female to male than male to female trans people among the younger population.
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2023, 11:47:45 AM
What about female to male trans players wanting to play men's sports? Are there safety concerns for them? Purely anecdotal but I've seen a lot more female to male than male to female trans people among the younger population.
I don't think any male that wants to be a female would have most interest in playing sport probably more into makeup and love island.
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2023, 11:52:16 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2023, 11:47:45 AM
What about female to male trans players wanting to play men's sports? Are there safety concerns for them? Purely anecdotal but I've seen a lot more female to male than male to female trans people among the younger population.
I don't think any male that wants to be a female would have most interest in playing sport probably more into makeup and love island.
Not ones that identify as cis males.
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2023, 11:47:45 AM
What about female to male trans players wanting to play men's sports? Are there safety concerns for them? Purely anecdotal but I've seen a lot more female to male than male to female trans people among the younger population.
There should be categories for it.
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2023, 11:47:45 AM
What about female to male trans players wanting to play men's sports? Are there safety concerns for them? Purely anecdotal but I've seen a lot more female to male than male to female trans people among the younger population.
Something tells me it's 4 or 5 to 1 in the opposite direction amongst Gen Z, but I could be wrong.
Quote from: blanketattack on March 02, 2023, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Yes, Rugby sees 11 stone players vs 22 stone players.
Basketball has seen 5'3" 9 stone players vs 25 stone 7'1" players.
Did anyone ask for the bigger players to be banned for 'safety concerns'?
People think the Ladies Football scene is going to be flooded with 6'4" 14 stone transwomen. People just looking to invent scenarios just to suit their own transphobia. Transphobes are no different to racists, homophobes and even flat-earthers - no listening to any rational by them, they've their mind made up and no counter argument is going to change their mind.
Safeguarding rules are about tail risk, not regular stuff.
Most basketball does not have 25 stone players.
11 stone rugby players play in the backs, not the forwards.
Everyone who plays rugby know how it works.
Introducing a trans who weighs twice as much or is 4 times as powerful as the women playing a sport
is a specific risk which has to be legislated for.
The bald Italian who rolled up at a LGFA match last year was playing against 16 year olds. There are also liability funding issues.
Should general society cover this risk ?
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2023, 11:52:16 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2023, 11:47:45 AM
What about female to male trans players wanting to play men's sports? Are there safety concerns for them? Purely anecdotal but I've seen a lot more female to male than male to female trans people among the younger population.
I don't think any male that wants to be a female would have most interest in playing sport probably more into makeup and love island.
What's wrong with watching love island? Hope Shaq gets rid of Tanya ;)
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 02, 2023, 11:52:16 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2023, 11:47:45 AM
What about female to male trans players wanting to play men's sports? Are there safety concerns for them? Purely anecdotal but I've seen a lot more female to male than male to female trans people among the younger population.
I don't think any male that wants to be a female would have most interest in playing sport probably more into makeup and love island.
a real brainiac here
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577 (https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577)
Summary The 15–31% athletic advantage that transwomen displayed over their female counterparts prior to starting gender affirming hormones declined with feminising therapy. However, transwomen still had a 9% faster mean run speed after the 1 year period of testosterone suppression that is recommended by World Athletics for inclusion in women's events.
Read what Ross Tucker has to say on the science of it. Retained advantage is indisputable.
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2023, 01:14:51 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 02, 2023, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Yes, Rugby sees 11 stone players vs 22 stone players.
Basketball has seen 5'3" 9 stone players vs 25 stone 7'1" players.
Did anyone ask for the bigger players to be banned for 'safety concerns'?
People think the Ladies Football scene is going to be flooded with 6'4" 14 stone transwomen. People just looking to invent scenarios just to suit their own transphobia. Transphobes are no different to racists, homophobes and even flat-earthers - no listening to any rational by them, they've their mind made up and no counter argument is going to change their mind.
Safeguarding rules are about tail risk, not regular stuff.
Most basketball does not have 25 stone players.
11 stone rugby players play in the backs, not the forwards.
Everyone who plays rugby know how it works.
Introducing a trans who weighs twice as much or is 4 times as powerful as the women playing a sport
is a specific risk which has to be legislated for.
The bald Italian who rolled up at a LGFA match last year was playing against 16 year olds. There are also liability funding issues.
Should general society cover this risk ?
A transwoman that's 4 times as powerful? No end to the unicorn scenarios.
99.x%: of transwomen will not be these huge giants 4 times as powerful that all the transphobes like to fear monger about . No need to exclude the majority that pose no risk.
Quote from: gallsman on March 02, 2023, 01:56:20 PM
Read what Ross Tucker has to say on the science of it. Retained advantage is indisputable.
The above article and the excerpt I posted doesn't dispute that.
Quote from: blanketattack on March 02, 2023, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2023, 01:14:51 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 02, 2023, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Yes, Rugby sees 11 stone players vs 22 stone players.
Basketball has seen 5'3" 9 stone players vs 25 stone 7'1" players.
Did anyone ask for the bigger players to be banned for 'safety concerns'?
People think the Ladies Football scene is going to be flooded with 6'4" 14 stone transwomen. People just looking to invent scenarios just to suit their own transphobia. Transphobes are no different to racists, homophobes and even flat-earthers - no listening to any rational by them, they've their mind made up and no counter argument is going to change their mind.
Safeguarding rules are about tail risk, not regular stuff.
Most basketball does not have 25 stone players.
11 stone rugby players play in the backs, not the forwards.
Everyone who plays rugby know how it works.
Introducing a trans who weighs twice as much or is 4 times as powerful as the women playing a sport
is a specific risk which has to be legislated for.
The bald Italian who rolled up at a LGFA match last year was playing against 16 year olds. There are also liability funding issues.
Should general society cover this risk ?
A transwoman that's 4 times as powerful? No end to the unicorn scenarios.
99.x%: of transwomen will not be these huge giants 4 times as powerful that all the transphobes like to fear monger about . No need to exclude the majority that pose no risk.
Even if it's "only" 40-60% why should women be exposed to the risk? Especially teenagers.
Trans women are either gay men or fetishists who experience sexual arousal at the idea of having a female body
. Why should their rights be prioritised ?
By what magic do these people become women? Answers on a postcard.
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2023, 03:13:11 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 02, 2023, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2023, 01:14:51 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 02, 2023, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Yes, Rugby sees 11 stone players vs 22 stone players.
Basketball has seen 5'3" 9 stone players vs 25 stone 7'1" players.
Did anyone ask for the bigger players to be banned for 'safety concerns'?
People think the Ladies Football scene is going to be flooded with 6'4" 14 stone transwomen. People just looking to invent scenarios just to suit their own transphobia. Transphobes are no different to racists, homophobes and even flat-earthers - no listening to any rational by them, they've their mind made up and no counter argument is going to change their mind.
Safeguarding rules are about tail risk, not regular stuff.
Most basketball does not have 25 stone players.
11 stone rugby players play in the backs, not the forwards.
Everyone who plays rugby know how it works.
Introducing a trans who weighs twice as much or is 4 times as powerful as the women playing a sport
is a specific risk which has to be legislated for.
The bald Italian who rolled up at a LGFA match last year was playing against 16 year olds. There are also liability funding issues.
Should general society cover this risk ?
A transwoman that's 4 times as powerful? No end to the unicorn scenarios.
99.x%: of transwomen will not be these huge giants 4 times as powerful that all the transphobes like to fear monger about . No need to exclude the majority that pose no risk.
Even if it's "only" 40-60% why should women be exposed to the risk? Especially teenagers.
Trans women are either gay men or fetishists who experience sexual arousal at the idea of having a female body
. Why should their rights be prioritised ?
By what magic do these people become women? Answers on a postcard.
You continually prove you know nothing about trans people and are nothing more than a bigot
And you got your psychiatric qualifications where?
Feelings or facts , feelings or reality that's basically what we are talking about
Quote from: Rossfan on March 02, 2023, 03:53:05 PM
And you got your psychiatric qualifications where?
It seems to be a form of narcissism. Since when did people like that become more important than women ? And why ?
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2023, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 02, 2023, 03:53:05 PM
And you got your psychiatric qualifications where?
It seems to be a form of narcissism. Since when did people like that become more important than women ? And why ?
I'd say you have some of that narcissism
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2023, 08:35:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2023, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 02, 2023, 03:53:05 PM
And you got your psychiatric qualifications where?
It seems to be a form of narcissism. Since when did people like that become more important than women ? And why ?
I'd say you have some of that narcissism
That's such a compliment coming from you.
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2023, 03:13:11 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 02, 2023, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2023, 01:14:51 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 02, 2023, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: jcpen on March 01, 2023, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 01, 2023, 12:23:49 PM
Also, the excuse of how dangerous trans women would be in contact sports, well a peak Serena Williams would be stronger than 99% of trans women, does than mean any women (non-trans) of her strength should be banned as well out of 'safety concerns'?
I brought up last week my own (at the time) 14 year old diminutive self being horsed out of it on the GAA field by lads who were a foot taller and three stone heavier. I'm sure many here have experienced the same.
Get up and get on with it was the option available.
Such a poor argument(yours and blanketattack are equally poor)and in no way is it the same as your 14 year old daughter (if you have one, if not insert sister, niece etc) coming up against a foot taller 3 stone heavier biological male who identifies as a female.
The point is physical disparity is often huge among men and women themselves, yet outside of the likes of boxing, it's never a consideration nor even a concern. A 5'3" man is never going to be a men's tennis champion because he simply lacks the physique, but no one bats an eyelid. Even a 5'3" woman would have a tough time against the Williams sisters in their prime. Yet the odd transwoman competing spells the end of women's sports as we know it and by extension, for some, necessitates the denial of any legitimate consideration of transexuality.
Yes, Rugby sees 11 stone players vs 22 stone players.
Basketball has seen 5'3" 9 stone players vs 25 stone 7'1" players.
Did anyone ask for the bigger players to be banned for 'safety concerns'?
People think the Ladies Football scene is going to be flooded with 6'4" 14 stone transwomen. People just looking to invent scenarios just to suit their own transphobia. Transphobes are no different to racists, homophobes and even flat-earthers - no listening to any rational by them, they've their mind made up and no counter argument is going to change their mind.
Safeguarding rules are about tail risk, not regular stuff.
Most basketball does not have 25 stone players.
11 stone rugby players play in the backs, not the forwards.
Everyone who plays rugby know how it works.
Introducing a trans who weighs twice as much or is 4 times as powerful as the women playing a sport
is a specific risk which has to be legislated for.
The bald Italian who rolled up at a LGFA match last year was playing against 16 year olds. There are also liability funding issues.
Should general society cover this risk ?
A transwoman that's 4 times as powerful? No end to the unicorn scenarios.
99.x%: of transwomen will not be these huge giants 4 times as powerful that all the transphobes like to fear monger about . No need to exclude the majority that pose no risk.
Even if it's "only" 40-60% why should women be exposed to the risk? Especially teenagers.
Trans women are either gay men or fetishists who experience sexual arousal at the idea of having a female body
. Why should their rights be prioritised ?
By what magic do these people become women? Answers on a postcard.
So now that you know the argument about safety concerns to do with size is BS, your new reason for banning transwomen is because "Trans women are either gay men or fetishists". Reeks of bigotry and transphobia.
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
100%
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
And what if your child comes out as a trans? Will you treat them differently?
That is a very fair question, althought the chances of this happening are extremely slim.
Especially with the environment my kids are brought up in. I would like to think my kids have been raised with the correct morals etc to see how messed up that shit is. AKA i don't think my kids are going to grow up to become attention seeking perverts. (fingers crossed)
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 09:32:25 AM
That is a very fair question, althought the chances of this happening are extremely slim.
Especially with the environment my kids are brought up in. I would like to think my kids have been raised with the correct morals etc to see how messed up that shit is. AKA i don't think my kids are going to grow up to become attention seeking perverts. (fingers crossed)
Well you seem like you'll have plenty of support for them if it happens ::)
Good luck at predicting how your kids turn out though
What would you do if your child came to you at 13/14 years of age and said that they want to become a horse and live in a field and eat grass all day?
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 09:35:26 AM
What would you do if your child came to you at 13/14 years of age and said that they want to become a horse and live in a field and eat grass all day?
Parenting, not for everyone one
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2023, 09:02:26 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
100%
+1
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 09:32:25 AM
That is a very fair question, althought the chances of this happening are extremely slim.
Especially with the environment my kids are brought up in. I would like to think my kids have been raised with the correct morals etc to see how messed up that shit is. AKA i don't think my kids are going to grow up to become attention seeking perverts. (fingers crossed)
Sounds very like Republicans in bygone days
"My daughter isn't going to marry a black man because she was brought up right"
"My son isn't going to turn out gay because he was brought up right".
They're now saying "my kids aren't going to be transexual because they were brought up right"
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Aye because young people just "decide" these things and they decide them based on what they watch on the news 😂😂
I just hope your kids aren't harbouring any deeply suppressed feelings or urges. Might just drive you over the edge
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2023, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Aye because young people just "decide" these things and they decide them based on what they watch on the news 😂😂
I just hope your kids aren't harbouring any deeply suppressed feelings or urges. Might just drive you over the edge
Why is the rate exploding in young people? Why is it higher in English speaking countries?
Quote from: blanketattack on March 03, 2023, 09:56:13 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 09:32:25 AM
That is a very fair question, althought the chances of this happening are extremely slim.
Especially with the environment my kids are brought up in. I would like to think my kids have been raised with the correct morals etc to see how messed up that shit is. AKA i don't think my kids are going to grow up to become attention seeking perverts. (fingers crossed)
Sounds very like Republicans in bygone days
"My daughter isn't going to marry a black man because she was brought up right"
"My son isn't going to turn out gay because he was brought up right".
They're now saying "my kids aren't going to be transexual because they were brought up right"
It's absolutely nothing like that. To frame this as the next big thing Liberals need to get over the line is just silly.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2023, 11:17:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2023, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Aye because young people just "decide" these things and they decide them based on what they watch on the news 😂😂
I just hope your kids aren't harbouring any deeply suppressed feelings or urges. Might just drive you over the edge
Why is the rate exploding in young people? Why is it higher in English speaking countries?
Exploding ? Christ
Anyways why does anything like this become more noticeable? Social media. People harboured their feelings/way of life/sex orientation and whatever else for millennia for fear of persecution.
Now it's accepted as 'ok' to be different, and that's fine.
Suicide was hidden unwanted disgraced an embarrassment so was avoided and not talked about, but now we encourage people to be more open about things, talk more don't be afraid.
But if someone identifies as something different to how they were born then it's a culture war! Wise up
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2023, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2023, 11:17:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2023, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Aye because young people just "decide" these things and they decide them based on what they watch on the news 😂😂
I just hope your kids aren't harbouring any deeply suppressed feelings or urges. Might just drive you over the edge
Why is the rate exploding in young people? Why is it higher in English speaking countries?
Exploding ? Christ
Anyways why does anything like this become more noticeable? Social media. People harboured their feelings/way of life/sex orientation and whatever else for millennia for fear of persecution.
Now it's accepted as 'ok' to be different, and that's fine.
Suicide was hidden unwanted disgraced an embarrassment so was avoided and not talked about, but now we encourage people to be more open about things, talk more don't be afraid.
But if someone identifies as something different to how they were born then it's a culture war! Wise up
It's doubled in young people in the last 5 years.
Suicide rates have not fallen.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2023, 11:17:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2023, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Aye because young people just "decide" these things and they decide them based on what they watch on the news 😂😂
I just hope your kids aren't harbouring any deeply suppressed feelings or urges. Might just drive you over the edge
Why is the rate exploding in young people? Why is it higher in English speaking countries?
Pushed more - Doctors and Pharmaceutical companies can make a lot of money for ongoing healthcare/procedures
How about people are more comfortable coming out of the closet and getting to grips with their true selves as society, especially younger segments, becomes more tolerant, understanding and less bigoted?
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 03, 2023, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2023, 11:17:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2023, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Aye because young people just "decide" these things and they decide them based on what they watch on the news 😂😂
I just hope your kids aren't harbouring any deeply suppressed feelings or urges. Might just drive you over the edge
Why is the rate exploding in young people? Why is it higher in English speaking countries?
Pushed more - Doctors and Pharmaceutical companies can make a lot of money for ongoing healthcare/procedures
Some waste of money.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2023, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2023, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2023, 11:17:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2023, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Aye because young people just "decide" these things and they decide them based on what they watch on the news 😂😂
I just hope your kids aren't harbouring any deeply suppressed feelings or urges. Might just drive you over the edge
Why is the rate exploding in young people? Why is it higher in English speaking countries?
Exploding ? Christ
Anyways why does anything like this become more noticeable? Social media. People harboured their feelings/way of life/sex orientation and whatever else for millennia for fear of persecution.
Now it's accepted as 'ok' to be different, and that's fine.
Suicide was hidden unwanted disgraced an embarrassment so was avoided and not talked about, but now we encourage people to be more open about things, talk more don't be afraid.
But if someone identifies as something different to how they were born then it's a culture war! Wise up
It's doubled in young people in the last 5 years.
Suicide rates have not fallen.
It's good you are concerned about teen suicide/suicide attempts
Facts About LGBTQ Youth Suicide
LGBTQ youth are not inherently prone to suicide risk because of their sexual orientation or gender identity but rather placed at higher risk because of how they are mistreated and stigmatized in society.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2023, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2023, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2023, 11:17:14 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 03, 2023, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
Aye because young people just "decide" these things and they decide them based on what they watch on the news 😂😂
I just hope your kids aren't harbouring any deeply suppressed feelings or urges. Might just drive you over the edge
Why is the rate exploding in young people? Why is it higher in English speaking countries?
Exploding ? Christ
Anyways why does anything like this become more noticeable? Social media. People harboured their feelings/way of life/sex orientation and whatever else for millennia for fear of persecution.
Now it's accepted as 'ok' to be different, and that's fine.
Suicide was hidden unwanted disgraced an embarrassment so was avoided and not talked about, but now we encourage people to be more open about things, talk more don't be afraid.
But if someone identifies as something different to how they were born then it's a culture war! Wise up
It's doubled in young people in the last 5 years.
Suicide rates have not fallen.
Not sure where I mentioned rates of deaths but hey whatever suits your post
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/youtube-fans-unfollow-popular-creator-after-recent-video-features-ad-for-hogwarts-legacy-utterly-disappointing-192131094.html (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/youtube-fans-unfollow-popular-creator-after-recent-video-features-ad-for-hogwarts-legacy-utterly-disappointing-192131094.html)
These people are insane.
Quote from: J70 on March 03, 2023, 12:13:23 PM
How about people are more comfortable coming out of the closet and getting to grips with their true selves as society, especially younger segments, becomes more tolerant, understanding and less bigoted?
It's this. Nothing more and nothing less
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 05, 2023, 02:03:23 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/youtube-fans-unfollow-popular-creator-after-recent-video-features-ad-for-hogwarts-legacy-utterly-disappointing-192131094.html (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/youtube-fans-unfollow-popular-creator-after-recent-video-features-ad-for-hogwarts-legacy-utterly-disappointing-192131094.html)
These people are insane.
what's insane is - that being a news story. Oh no - some Youtuber has lost some followers.
If a young lad of 16/17 identifies as a woman does he get to line out for the local clubs girls minor team? what's the solution there?
Great to see some common sense prevail.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/athletics/2023/03/23/world-athletics-council-excludes-transgender-women-from-female-events/
The bald Italian trans has been given the green light to compete against women.
https://www.businesspost.ie/news/trans-woman-approved-to-play-womens-gaelic-football/
There's an Irish commenter, Aidan Comerford, on the whole trans issue who I know nothing about other than he keeps popping up on twitter.
I have absolutely no idea who he is, but he appears to be even more invested in the process, from the opposite persepctive, than Linehan. A cursory glance suggests he spends approximately all day every day chasing Linehan, Rowling etc looking for evidence of transphobia.
Quote from: clarshack on April 03, 2023, 09:53:58 AM
The bald Italian trans has been given the green light to compete against women.
https://www.businesspost.ie/news/trans-woman-approved-to-play-womens-gaelic-football/
Ridiculous.
The violent trans prisoner in the female win of Limerick prison also has an Italian birth name. The law is driving a lot of this. The law was changed behind closed doors.
More Trans nonsense. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65610429 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65610429)
The whole trans saga is pushed by feminists to get females into male spaces, male sports teams and bathrooms, etc. When it is the other way around their true colours are shown, when Male-to-female trans people try to get into female spaces like bathrooms and sports teams.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology
Blanchard categorized trans women into two groups: homosexual transsexuals who are attracted exclusively to men and are feminine in both behavior and appearance; and autogynephilic transsexuals who experience sexual arousal at the idea of having a female body (autogynephilia)
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2023, 03:29:59 PM
More Trans nonsense. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65610429 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65610429)
A few seconds in that chaps butchers shop with a cleaver could have quickly completed his transition.
Quote from: DhoireTheas on May 18, 2023, 05:12:51 PM
The whole trans saga is pushed by feminists to get females into male spaces, male sports teams and bathrooms, etc. When it is the other way around their true colours are shown, when Male-to-female trans people try to get into female spaces like bathrooms and sports teams.
That's some take on it. Feminists are villified for trying to protect women's rights (JK Rowling the most obvious)from what I can see. The whole poisionous debate is incomprehensible so another incomprehensible take on it is fitting.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2023, 09:27:34 AM
Quote from: samuel maguire on March 03, 2023, 08:49:31 AM
I am getting some laugh at all you clowns sticking up for this whole trans issue, coming out with words like transphobia etc ;D ;D
Catch yourself on you fools you are part of the problem. These people should not be given the time of day. The more media coverage etc the more our young people are exposed to this nonsense, thinking this is the norm when it really is not!
If you want to be a transexual knock yourself out, i really couldn't care.... until it starts effecting me and my childrens rights/safety
If you want to identify as a horse i couldn't care less.... until they start running around the track at cheltenham.
And what if your child comes out as a trans? Will you treat them differently?
Yes.
ITV did a report on the news about rising energy costs and how people are struggling, of course they interviewed a man dressed as a woman as a "struggling mother"
https://twitter.com/paulembery/status/1674332639921045505?s=46&t=p6a2iuyvhhHTNPUOLtbXgA
Of course anyone commenting on how ridiculous it is is being branded transphobic
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 29, 2023, 11:21:37 PM
ITV did a report on the news about rising energy costs and how people are struggling, of course they interviewed a man dressed as a woman as a "struggling mother"
https://twitter.com/paulembery/status/1674332639921045505?s=46&t=p6a2iuyvhhHTNPUOLtbXgA
Of course anyone commenting on how ridiculous it is is being branded transphobic
Saw that earlier. The world is a crazy place at the minute.
I was flicking through the channels the other night, and Stacey Dooley was doing some documentary
The gist of it was , a man and a woman married, have two children, and the father changed to a woman and the mother became a man. No wonder kids are screwed up these days
Quote from: DhoireTheas on May 18, 2023, 05:12:51 PM
The whole trans saga is pushed by feminists to get females into male spaces, male sports teams and bathrooms, etc. When it is the other way around their true colours are shown, when Male-to-female trans people try to get into female spaces like bathrooms and sports teams.
South Derry is made of better stuff than this outdated shite. BÃodh ciall agat fhad is nach sagart thú.
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 29, 2023, 11:21:37 PM
ITV did a report on the news about rising energy costs and how people are struggling, of course they interviewed a man dressed as a woman as a "struggling mother"
https://twitter.com/paulembery/status/1674332639921045505?s=46&t=p6a2iuyvhhHTNPUOLtbXgA
Of course anyone commenting on how ridiculous it is is being branded transphobic
What a fucked up world we live in.
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 30, 2023, 12:22:58 AM
I was flicking through the channels the other night, and Stacey Dooley was doing some documentary
The gist of it was , a man and a woman married, have two children, and the father changed to a woman and the mother became a man. No wonder kids are screwed up these days
Would you rather something more traditional where the da bates the wife and the ma becomes a raging alcoholic?
Quote from: general_lee on June 30, 2023, 08:18:51 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 30, 2023, 12:22:58 AM
I was flicking through the channels the other night, and Stacey Dooley was doing some documentary
The gist of it was , a man and a woman married, have two children, and the father changed to a woman and the mother became a man. No wonder kids are screwed up these days
Would you rather something more traditional where the da bates the wife and the ma becomes a raging alcoholic?
I rather people with cocks, who cannot have children, were not referred to as "Mothers"
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
Or let's say that way in the future, a trans woman can get a uterus implanted in her body to allow her to bear her own child, would she then be a mother?
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:58:17 PM
Or let's say that way in the future, a trans woman can get a uterus implanted in her body to allow her to bear her own child, would she then be a mother?
Lets saw way in the future I grow rabbit ears can I be called a rabbit now?
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:58:17 PM
Or let's say that way in the future, a trans woman can get a uterus implanted in her body to allow her to bear her own child, would she then be a mother?
Lets saw way in the future I grow rabbit ears can I be called a rabbit now?
I think calling you a c**k would suffice, unless you are acting the fannie then we'll just call you a cnut ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WID6w4_gtwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WID6w4_gtwo)
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
Some narrow minded individuals about up North!
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2023, 02:28:50 PM
Some narrow minded individuals about up North!
Can we make sweeping statements on lads in the South?
The word "Some" was used therefore an observation on a section of the populace not a "sweeping generalisation".
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2023, 02:28:50 PM
Some narrow minded individuals about up North!
You see it isn't narrow minded. That is a lazy comment. Because I believe that there are two genders and they have been pretty well defined for thousands of years.
I respect anyone's right to dress how they feel or want. But using it as an excuse to enter spaces that are reserved and protected for other genders is wrong. Whether it be sport or anything else.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2023, 02:34:01 PM
The word "Some" was used therefore an observation on a section of the populace not a "sweeping generalisation".
So why define it as a region?
The ones giving out about it on gaaboard.com are from the 6.
Someone should tell them about the native Americans.
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They are a very small subgroup of the trans massive.
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They will still fall under one of two genders.
Few simple questions and tests should do it if the issue ever arises.
For 99.9% you can work off my c**k / No c**k flow chart.
Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2023, 02:56:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They are a very small subgroup of the trans massive.
Leaving aside the non-anatomical stuff, does that mean you're willing to acknowledge the legitimacy of at least that small subgroup?
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They will still fall under one of two genders.
Few simple questions and tests should do it if the issue ever arises.
For 99.9% you can work off my c**k / No c**k flow chart.
There's "basic" science to back up your pigeon holing of them?
Are there measurements involved?
A lot of biological traits fall on a spectrum.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2023, 02:28:50 PM
Some narrow minded individuals about up North!
Wasn't Roscommon the only county to vote no to Gay marriage?
Shania Twain has a lot to answer for.
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 03:05:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2023, 02:56:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They are a very small subgroup of the trans massive.
Leaving aside the non-anatomical stuff, does that mean you're willing to acknowledge the legitimacy of at least that small subgroup?
Absolutely. We used to live in India and after our daughter was born the transexual hijras came to bless the baby. All the drivers were afraid of them.
There are maybe 200 in Mumbai, population 17m. I was impressed that Indian society had a place for them.
But AGPs are dreadful . The Trans movement in the West is totally different .
Quote from: jcpen on June 30, 2023, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2023, 02:28:50 PM
Some narrow minded individuals about up North!
Wasn't Roscommon the only county to vote no to Gay marriage?
😂 👏
Quote from: jcpen on June 30, 2023, 04:49:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2023, 02:28:50 PM
Some narrow minded individuals about up North!
Wasn't Roscommon the only county to vote no to Gay marriage?
Oh he's done you there. He's. Done. You. There.
I voted for it anyway.
And I have no problem with Trans people, fluid or non binary or anything else.
Or Rhubarbs either.
Quote from: gallsman on June 30, 2023, 04:57:34 PM
Shania Twain has a lot to answer for.
I finally got that! ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on July 01, 2023, 09:46:47 AM
I voted for it anyway.
And I have no problem with Trans people, fluid or non binary or anything else.
Or Rhubarbs either.
Yes but but would you agree then that there is lots of narrow minded people down in Roscommon?
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They will still fall under one of two genders.
Few simple questions and tests should do it if the issue ever arises.
For 99.9% you can work off my c**k / No c**k flow chart.
There's "basic" science to back up your pigeon holing of them?
Are there measurements involved?
A lot of biological traits fall on a spectrum.
Why have women sports? Why have kids sports? Why not everyone just compete together? Why have men or women changing rooms? We're all the same. That's essentially your argument isn't it?
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They will still fall under one of two genders.
Few simple questions and tests should do it if the issue ever arises.
For 99.9% you can work off my c**k / No c**k flow chart.
There's "basic" science to back up your pigeon holing of them?
Are there measurements involved?
A lot of biological traits fall on a spectrum.
The trans movement isn't based on that. Kids are identified via dysmorphia . Adults are either gay feminine or autogynephilic (men who feel sexually aroused at the idea of having a female body)
Quote from: trailer on July 01, 2023, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They will still fall under one of two genders.
Few simple questions and tests should do it if the issue ever arises.
For 99.9% you can work off my c**k / No c**k flow chart.
There's "basic" science to back up your pigeon holing of them?
Are there measurements involved?
A lot of biological traits fall on a spectrum.
Why have women sports? Why have kids sports? Why not everyone just compete together? Why have men or women changing rooms? We're all the same. That's essentially your argument isn't it?
I suppose why sexualise it when it's put like that. We are all humans some have dangley bits some don't, separating things could be the fault here. Be one with nature :-*
Quote from: trailer on July 01, 2023, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They will still fall under one of two genders.
Few simple questions and tests should do it if the issue ever arises.
For 99.9% you can work off my c**k / No c**k flow chart.
There's "basic" science to back up your pigeon holing of them?
Are there measurements involved?
A lot of biological traits fall on a spectrum.
Why have women sports? Why have kids sports? Why not everyone just compete together? Why have men or women changing rooms? We're all the same. That's essentially your argument isn't it?
I haven't made an argument remotely like that.
I'm questioning your (and others) absolute certainty and cynicism.
Personally I don't know either way, but I do know that the lines can be blurred when it comes to biologically determined traits. With intersex people that's anatomically. And if anatomy can be ambiguous, why must gender identity be cut and dried?
J70 regardless of all that do you not think it a bit strange that the only "mother" ITV could find at short notice to to talk about Thames Water was a bloke in a dress? It was like a sketch from Little Britain.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 01, 2023, 05:10:22 PM
J70 regardless of all that do you not think it a bit strange that the only "mother" ITV could find at short notice to to talk about Thames Water was a bloke in a dress? It was like a sketch from Little Britain.
Haven't seen it nor do I know anything about the program itself. You may be correct.
https://twitter.com/essexpr/status/1675588462026665985?s=46&t=zMI0pHqP8aYtYYerofczvg
I'm sorry but that's child abuse right there
Quote from: Mourne Red on July 03, 2023, 09:10:13 AM
https://twitter.com/essexpr/status/1675588462026665985?s=46&t=zMI0pHqP8aYtYYerofczvg
I'm sorry but that's child abuse right there
100%
This trans stuff is losing the run of itself and people will fight back against it. It is nothing more that men seeking sexual gratification.
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2023, 03:29:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 01, 2023, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 30, 2023, 12:55:44 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 30, 2023, 12:12:39 PM
It doesent matter how many dresses he puts on or how much makeup. It's impossible for him to be a mother
Extending that logic, is a woman who cannot have kids but adopts a child a "mother"?
It's a gender specific term.
Cocks = Fathers
Fannies = Mothers
Check your underwear to see which you have and go from there. This is really basic science in fairness.
And those whose genitalia and characteristics are more ambiguous?
Or do we just deny their actual existence because it's inconvenient when you can't fit everything into neat pigeon holes?
They will still fall under one of two genders.
Few simple questions and tests should do it if the issue ever arises.
For 99.9% you can work off my c**k / No c**k flow chart.
There's "basic" science to back up your pigeon holing of them?
Are there measurements involved?
A lot of biological traits fall on a spectrum.
Why have women sports? Why have kids sports? Why not everyone just compete together? Why have men or women changing rooms? We're all the same. That's essentially your argument isn't it?
I haven't made an argument remotely like that.
I'm questioning your (and others) absolute certainty and cynicism.
Personally I don't know either way, but I do know that the lines can be blurred when it comes to biologically determined traits. With intersex people that's anatomically. And if anatomy can be ambiguous, why must gender identity be cut and dried?
Because it is. There's differences everywhere. When people don't have complete sexual organs something has gone wrong. If someone is born without a leg we don't start saying human legs are on a spectrum, we acknowledge that something has gone wrong. Saying Humans have two legs is still correct. If I go to the Doctor and say I can't get pregnant he or she isn't going to run a load of tests on me to find out what's up, but if my wife goes they will run tests and try and find out what the issue. That's a key difference.
That's why I say you are ignoring science.
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Everyone can identify as whatever they want. As long as everyone with male genitalia are kept out of female safe spaces. As regards transgender women taking part in sports, there is nothing stopping them from organising their own transgender category and compete with other transgender athletes
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Half of trans women are AGPs who get turned on by pretending to be female. The proportion with some body difference is tiny.
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Would you agree there's two categories of people. Those who can get pregnant and those who can't?
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Would you agree there's two categories of people. Those who can get pregnant and those who can't?
There are two categories of people, those who put everyone into two categories and those that don't
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Would you agree there's two categories of people. Those who can get pregnant and those who can't?
My sister couldn't get pregnant, what category will we put her in?
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Would you agree there's two categories of people. Those who can get pregnant and those who can't?
Not all women can get pregnant.
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:24:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Half of trans women are AGPs who get turned on by pretending to be female. The proportion with some body difference is tiny.
I don't know what an AGP is.
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 08:16:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:24:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Half of trans women are AGPs who get turned on by pretending to be female. The proportion with some body difference is tiny.
I don't know what an AGP is.
https://feministwiki.org/wiki/Autogynephilia
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Would you agree there's two categories of people. Those who can get pregnant and those who can't?
Not all women can get pregnant.
No but they're of the nature that can get pregnant. If a woman can't get pregnant they'll run tests to try and find out why and hopefully rectify it. If I a man go to the doctor and say I can't get pregnant no doctor is gonna run tests. Agree?
So there's two groups. People who potentially can and those who definitely can't get pregnant.
It's binary.
Male and female.
Hopefully makes sense.
Did Arnie not get pregnant about 30 years ago?
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Would you agree there's two categories of people. Those who can get pregnant and those who can't?
Not all women can get pregnant.
No but they're of the nature that can get pregnant. If a woman can't get pregnant they'll run tests to try and find out why and hopefully rectify it. If I a man go to the doctor and say I can't get pregnant no doctor is gonna run tests. Agree?
So there's two groups. People who potentially can and those who definitely can't get pregnant.
It's binary.
Male and female.
Hopefully makes sense.
It does but as shown, not all things are normal
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 09:39:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:42:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 03, 2023, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Would you agree there's two categories of people. Those who can get pregnant and those who can't?
Not all women can get pregnant.
No but they're of the nature that can get pregnant. If a woman can't get pregnant they'll run tests to try and find out why and hopefully rectify it. If I a man go to the doctor and say I can't get pregnant no doctor is gonna run tests. Agree?
So there's two groups. People who potentially can and those who definitely can't get pregnant.
It's binary.
Male and female.
Hopefully makes sense.
QED, huh?
What does any of that have to do with what I said about gender identity?
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 08:38:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 08:16:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:24:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Half of trans women are AGPs who get turned on by pretending to be female. The proportion with some body difference is tiny.
I don't know what an AGP is.
https://feministwiki.org/wiki/Autogynephilia
Ok. Are there stats to back up "half"?
What about the rest? That's still half.
Quote from: J70 on July 05, 2023, 12:28:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 08:38:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 08:16:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:24:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 03, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Can you point me to some of this basic science Trailer?
Because from what I can see, there is a large range of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors which are in play in the formation of one's gender identity, and the jury is very much out on the relative contribution of all those factors, just like it is for many questions in neuroscience. My point in bringing up intersex individuals is that there are so many things that have go right, for lack of a better word, in the biological developmental process, that the end result is not always a neat either/or. And that is just anatomy we are talking about. The way the brain works is far less understood. If you are going to deny the humanity and dignity of trans people en masse and arrogantly dismiss them all as dangerous frauds, you should have some solid ground to stand on.
Half of trans women are AGPs who get turned on by pretending to be female. The proportion with some body difference is tiny.
I don't know what an AGP is.
https://feministwiki.org/wiki/Autogynephilia
Ok. Are there stats to back up "half"?
What about the rest? That's still half.
Same link. Blanchard. https://feministwiki.org/wiki/Autogynephilia
Dr. Blanchard's work appears to be controversial, to say the least, from a little I read about it. At the very least, it is certainly not a robust enough base on which to rationalize prejudice or discrimination against trans people.
Just seen a rewording of On the one road, the new chorus goes "North people, South People comrades all", not quite as catchy
Looks well I think
https://twitter.com/EvaVlaar/status/1677976646148554753?s=20
Quote from: Olly on July 09, 2023, 10:32:47 PM
Looks well I think
https://twitter.com/EvaVlaar/status/1677976646148554753?s=20
Winner
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0oMI4DaQAMJMEo?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Competition
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0oMI4EaMAAFddp?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Hmm..
Common sense starting to prevail. More of this please.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/cycling/2023/0714/1394580-male-puberty-to-put-the-brakes-on-trans-women-cyclists/
Can anybody work this out?
Maybe I haven't woken up properly yet. Born a female, she came out, is transgender AND non-binary. :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441)
But more importantly, should she be playing in the "women's" World Cup?
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 25, 2023, 03:34:11 PM
Can anybody work this out?
Maybe I haven't woken up properly yet. Born a female, she came out, is transgender AND non-binary. :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441)
But more importantly, should she be playing in the "women's" World Cup?
A narcissist stealing the dreams and careers of talented young women who want to play sport at the top level.
They can do what they want but stay out of womens sport.
Quote from: Last Man on July 25, 2023, 03:52:08 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 25, 2023, 03:34:11 PM
Can anybody work this out?
Maybe I haven't woken up properly yet. Born a female, she came out, is transgender AND non-binary. :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441)
But more importantly, should she be playing in the "women's" World Cup?
A narcissist stealing the dreams and careers of talented young women who want to play sport at the top level.
They can do what they want but stay out of womens sport.
She was born biologically a female. Rebecca Quinn.
How you can be transgender and non binary is beyond me. They're making this up as they go along.
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 25, 2023, 03:34:11 PM
Can anybody work this out?
Maybe I haven't woken up properly yet. Born a female, she came out, is transgender AND non-binary. :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441)
But more importantly, should she be playing in the "women's" World Cup?
That article hurt my head.
I can make head nor tail of that article. Journalists are so afraid of being offended they end up with these word salads. What exactly has/have "they" come out as?! Women's football is full of lesbians so not sure what's happening here!
Quote from: jcpen on July 25, 2023, 05:06:46 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 25, 2023, 03:34:11 PM
Can anybody work this out?
Maybe I haven't woken up properly yet. Born a female, she came out, is transgender AND non-binary. :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441)
But more importantly, should she be playing in the "women's" World Cup?
That article hurt my head.
Glad it wasn't just me then
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/roisin-murphy-and-the-limits-of-the-new-authoritarianism/
(https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/roisin-murphy-and-the-limits-of-the-new-authoritarianism/)
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 14, 2023, 04:12:40 PM
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/roisin-murphy-and-the-limits-of-the-new-authoritarianism/
(https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/roisin-murphy-and-the-limits-of-the-new-authoritarianism/)
:)
Has there been a bit of a sea change in general opinion? Seems to be a bit of common sense entering the debates - previously dismissed or shut down debates imo.
Quote from: bennydorano on April 14, 2024, 07:46:17 AMHas there been a bit of a sea change in general opinion? Seems to be a bit of common sense entering the debates - previously dismissed or shut down debates imo.
The average person has common sense with these freaks. But they get called out for it so are afraid to say much.
Sackcloth and ashes time for plenty of board members who sided with the wrong side of history in regard to this topic.
Quote from: bennydorano on April 14, 2024, 07:46:17 AMHas there been a bit of a sea change in general opinion? Seems to be a bit of common sense entering the debates - previously dismissed or shut down debates imo.
Definitely. You can see it in the sporting world with the regulating bodies and that.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 14, 2024, 09:41:01 AMQuote from: bennydorano on April 14, 2024, 07:46:17 AMHas there been a bit of a sea change in general opinion? Seems to be a bit of common sense entering the debates - previously dismissed or shut down debates imo.
The average person has common sense with these freaks. But they get called out for it so are afraid to say much.
I certainly don't view trans people as freaks. Trans rights shouldn't trump womens' rights tho (& their right to feel safe in women only areas), that seemed to be the road it was hurtling down for a long time. A section of the trans movement appear to not want to assimilate into society either. I don't care if they want to assimilate or not but I don't think society should have to put up with some of their outrageous nonsense either. They should have equality in society, they should also respect others in society.
Quote from: bennydorano on April 14, 2024, 11:24:45 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on April 14, 2024, 09:41:01 AMQuote from: bennydorano on April 14, 2024, 07:46:17 AMHas there been a bit of a sea change in general opinion? Seems to be a bit of common sense entering the debates - previously dismissed or shut down debates imo.
The average person has common sense with these freaks. But they get called out for it so are afraid to say much.
I certainly don't view trans people as freaks. Trans rights shouldn't trump womens' rights tho (& their right to feel safe in women only areas), that seemed to be the road it was hurtling down for a long time. A section of the trans movement appear to not want to assimilate into society either. I don't care if they want to assimilate or not but I don't think society should have to put up with some of their outrageous nonsense either. They should have equality in society, they should also respect others in society.
I think this is the case. Most people would have issues with the some of the proposals put forward by the trans movement. But equally most would refrain from calling them freaks. There's people from both sides on this board and all levels in between.
Quote from: theskull1 on April 14, 2024, 09:53:50 AMSackcloth and ashes time for plenty of board members who sided with the wrong side of history in regard to this topic.
What's the "wrong side"?
Views were/are spread across a wide spectrum, as might be expected with a pretty new, unfamiliar issue.
Are the "trans people are freaks/frauds" people on the wrong side?
That Sam Smith is an attention seeking freak.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 14, 2024, 12:53:21 PMQuote from: bennydorano on April 14, 2024, 11:24:45 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on April 14, 2024, 09:41:01 AMQuote from: bennydorano on April 14, 2024, 07:46:17 AMHas there been a bit of a sea change in general opinion? Seems to be a bit of common sense entering the debates - previously dismissed or shut down debates imo.
The average person has common sense with these freaks. But they get called out for it so are afraid to say much.
I certainly don't view trans people as freaks. Trans rights shouldn't trump womens' rights tho (& their right to feel safe in women only areas), that seemed to be the road it was hurtling down for a long time. A section of the trans movement appear to not want to assimilate into society either. I don't care if they want to assimilate or not but I don't think society should have to put up with some of their outrageous nonsense either. They should have equality in society, they should also respect others in society.
I think this is the case. Most people would have issues with the some of the proposals put forward by the trans movement. But equally most would refrain from calling them freaks. There's people from both sides on this board and all levels in between.
Exactly, and if it was hurtling down a road it was because certain parts of the media were pushing that agenda #bogeymen
This discussion is just as empathetic and open minded as I expected it to be...
When you see other humans described as "freaks".....
There was disproportionate emphasis put on the feelings and needs of a tiny percentage of the population due to an even smaller percentage within that cohort being headbanger activists, aided and abetted by Liberal voices, bullying dissenting voices (mostly speaking sense). That imbalance thankfully seems to be being addressed. Trans people should have their rights but they shouldn't come at the cost of others.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2024, 11:30:28 PMThere was disproportionate emphasis put on the feelings and needs of a tiny percentage of the population due to an even smaller percentage within that cohort being headbanger activists, aided and abetted by Liberal voices, bullying dissenting voices (mostly speaking sense). That imbalance thankfully seems to be being addressed. Trans people should have their rights but they shouldn't come at the cost of others.
What rights do they not have that the rest of us do?
Whatever about the whys and wherefores JK Rowling is fairly doubling down on it.
Anyone calling anyone "freaks" needs to take a look at themselves tbh.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 15, 2024, 08:55:26 AMAnyone calling anyone "freaks" needs to take a look at themselves tbh.
Really ITG? ::)
;D Everyone is different skull. To classify an entire grouping of people is a bit much IMO. Not everyone with transgender things look or behave the same - same as anything.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2024, 11:30:28 PMThere was disproportionate emphasis put on the feelings and needs of a tiny percentage of the population due to an even smaller percentage within that cohort being headbanger activists, aided and abetted by Liberal voices, bullying dissenting voices (mostly speaking sense). That imbalance thankfully seems to be being addressed. Trans people should have their rights but they shouldn't come at the cost of others.
Both imbalances need to be addressed. Those happy to label other groups freaks etc should also be shouted down. Hopefully that will continue to be challenged by most people.
Do you want to edit your post to "anyone calling an entire group of people 'freaks' needs to take a look at themselves" so it doesn't look like you're moving the goalposts? ;)
Quote from: theskull1 on April 15, 2024, 09:46:33 AMDo you want to edit your post to "anyone calling an entire group of people 'freaks' needs to take a look at themselves" so it doesn't look like you're moving the goalposts? ;)
Was it not fairly obvious he was replying to Armagh18. Who was calling an entire group freaks.
If there's more than one of a thing .... the English language allows the use of the word these.
freak show in Belgium;
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kQNhnGY1Od8/XezbMoMnCQI/AAAAAAAATGA/u94oMzTzUNoUEMzV_-9ncBkBH8WsY88LQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/human_zoo_pictures%2B%25282%2529.jpg)
Enough said!
bmj.com/content/385/bmj.q837...
Studies in gender medicine fall woefully short in terms of methodological rigour; the methodological bar for gender medicine studies was set too low, generating research findings that are therefore hard to interpret.
"Trans children have been lied to by adults – the Cass report may now see the legal dam break
The alarm bells have been ringing for some time, but now the entire narrative around adolescent gender dysphoria is breaking apart
SUZANNE MOORE9 April 2024 • 6:00am
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I remember as a teenager reading about a strange disorder called anorexia. I had never heard of it – and then I noticed one of my best friends cleaning her teeth several times a day and exercising manically. And it wasn't just her that was acting weirdly. Several girls I knew were clearly suffering. Then came bulimia, which turned the school loos into sad places in which certain girls spent worrying amounts of time.
Then, as a mother of daughters, I remember reading about an epidemic of cutting among teenagers. Surely this highly unusual behaviour was not rampant? Well, the internet told me it was and an NHS psychiatrist informed me about self-harm circles in certain schools.
These thoughts occur because I am trying to understand how we started talking of "trans children" and thought this was somehow some kind of "progress". This, after all, is a new phenomenon. In 2010, for instance, with the Equality Act, which made gender reassignment a protected characteristic, the intention was surely to avoid discrimination against adult transsexuals. This is a laudable aim but no one was talking about children then. The phrase "gender dysphoria" was not bandied about. It was rare to come across a child who had such severe gender issues they needed specialist services. Indeed in that year, only 75 children were referred to Gids (the NHS's Gender Identity Development Service, based at the Tavistock centre in north-west London). By 2021 it was 5,000.
Now we are in a situation where celebrities wear T-shirts saying Protect Trans Kids and where schools, even primary schools, are colluding with the idea that children are whatever they say they are, that their bodies are somehow wrong and that they can change their names without parental consent.
The alarm bells have been ringing for some time about Gids. What was most alarming was this sudden spike in girls presenting with gender dysphoria and the increasing evidence of the harms of puberty blockers.
When Dr Hilary Cass was commissioned to report on standards of care within the NHS, it was as if finally an adult had stepped into the room. She and her team have looked at the evidence and practices that had recently evolved the affirmative model (designed to support and affirm an individual's gender identity) and found much wanting. She also signalled the high levels of comorbidities with gender dysphoria. A high proportion of these girls who did not want to be girls were autistic. Many had troubled childhoods or had been in care. Many were gay. All of this resulted in the unravelling of Gids and a ban on puberty blockers.
In the full report, which is due to be published this week, Cass is not only concerned with medical intervention (puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, surgery) but is also expected to come out against "social transition". Though this is not something that happens within the health service it is, she says, an "active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition... it is not a neutral act and better information is needed about outcomes."
Some believe that socially transitioning kids will lock them into a gender identity and medical pathway that is detrimental. Cass emphasises that gender expression is indeed fluid and changeable for adolescents and that many may take till their mid-20s to settle. In other words, leave these kids alone.
Indeed, faced with this huge increase in kids saying they are trans, many schools have acquiesced. Yet teachers are not clinicians, nor are they there to diagnose children. Do they understand what they are doing? The entire narrative around trans children has been imported from America but it is breaking apart.
Those who want to see themselves as compassionate and modern have embraced some seriously dodgy ideas. The evidence against puberty blockers, which were sold as "a pause" and reversible, mounts up. The Mayo Clinic has suggested that these drugs can lead to cancer. There is a court case coming up in Italy, and many predict that once the dam breaks, many who have been prescribed these drugs will sue their doctors.
This has all been allowed to happen because children have been lied to. They are told they can change sex; they are told that puberty will be awful; they are told they will feel suicidal. Anyone who challenges this has been deemed a pariah. So, we end up with newly qualified English teachers now deciding that they are doing the right thing by keeping a child's fantasy identity secret from their parents.
Many are terrified of this issue and go along with what they must know to be dubious. We have yet to see where the Labour Party will go on this, because it too quakes in front of its own activists. Yet any serious person must address the issues around safeguarding. The gender dysphoric child must be protected of course but so must the other kids in the class who have a right to single-sex changing rooms.
Now is the time to step back and ask ourselves how we got here. The trans child is a manifestation of a recent story that the culture has told itself. This is a story of social contagion combined with the genuine distress of mostly young girls.
Children cannot be blamed for acting out but the adults who have encouraged this, while patting themselves on the back for their progressive views, still need to be challenged. Cass is but the start. "
Has anyone here had any personal experiences with trans people and has anyone, or someone they know, been personally affected by any of these issues being raised here?
Years ago a guy in work left as Joe on a Friday and came back few weeks later as Joanne, mail went round in the intervening period to explain what was happening, to be respectful etc. words like inclusion, diversity, equality etc were rightly within the mail. It was all rather surreal as Joe he was 6'4 in his 40's married with kids (marriage ended with the change), after some time took 6 months leave and then came back to a different office. As liberal minded as anyone could be to see someone - especially so tall - whom you worked with for years walk in to the office in heels, a dress, some sort of false boobs, a wig, makeup and a handbag turned heads!
Work with teenagers and there have been a few males identify as female [or vv], and ask to be referred to as she etc and dress across the gender.
After the initial WTAF (soto voce of course) it just becomes another one of those things. Having said that there weren't any issues with toileting etc which could have raised the temperature I spose.
The other teens don't seem to raise an eyebrow about it tbh. I suspect, with zero empirical evidence of course, that quite a lot of it is attention seeking behaviour.
Quote from: Tones on April 16, 2024, 10:22:00 AMYears ago a guy in work left as Joe on a Friday and came back few weeks later as Joanne, mail went round in the intervening period to explain what was happening, to be respectful etc. words like inclusion, diversity, equality etc were rightly within the mail. It was all rather surreal as Joe he was 6'4 in his 40's married with kids (marriage ended with the change), after some time took 6 months leave and then came back to a different office. As liberal minded as anyone could be to see someone - especially so tall - whom you worked with for years walk in to the office in heels, a dress, some sort of false boobs, a wig, makeup and a handbag turned heads!
Do you think he took the easy option or just wanted to piss people off? (This is not directed at you btw Tones)
Remember years ago watching an interview about a fella that struggled with his sexuality, he was gay but hid it for so long as the alternative would be far worse due to the way society viewed difference.
Verbal and physical abuse was standard, so can you imagine what it must be like to make that change?
I can understand why so many people try and have a 'normal' life as that is the easier option on the outside but christ it must be a mental struggle keeping up appearances
Trans is a thing, are people sometimes abusing it for themselves? Yeah absolutely. But I wouldn't wish whats going on in their heads to my worst of enemies
Sean Bean gave a stellar performance as a Trans-person in Accused, must give it a re-watch
"are people sometimes abusing it for themselves? Yeah absolutely"
And this is where the issues have been .... surely there's no disagreement by the majority that these should never have been allowed?
Pro 'you're trans so lets get you on the pathway straight away' practitioners within pediatric gender care Services in the NHS
Biological males allowed in female prisons
Biological males allowed in female only spaces
Biological males allowed to compete in female sports
What about biological females in male prisons?
Biological females in male sports?
Biological females in male-only spaces?
Are those an issue?
If not, then one presumes that the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing-intent-on-creeping-or-rape is the real objection?
In which case, this issue has been around in terms of high prominence for coming up on a decade now. What are the stats?
Are men dressed as women a significant proportion of the rapist population out there?
I've been at my current employer for six years. They've allowed gender ID-based bathroom use that entire time. Despite tens of thousands of people around daily, I've never heard of a single report.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on April 15, 2024, 11:25:33 PMHas anyone here had any personal experiences with trans people and has anyone, or someone they know, been personally affected by any of these issues being raised here?
There's a few in our office and I've worked with one almost every day for the last couple of years.
Never had an issue with them.
I'm a big fan of Billy Bragg's music but he seems to have gone down the rabbit hole opposite Linehan.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 14, 2024, 01:21:17 PMThat Sam Smith is an attention seeking freak.
It's to deflect from the mind numbing blandness of his music. 100% t*at
You know fine rightly they are/they have been issues J70 and in no way am I tarring the 'whole group' when I say that ::)
Every area of life ends up getting gamed/corrupted by opportunists (e.g. health systems, religion, relationships, benefits, tax , sick leave) so there's nothing particular surprising that it happens in this space as well. The gaslighting of common sense is a common theme.
Did you get bored with your COVID nonsense and this is your new thing?
Quote from: HokeyPokey on April 15, 2024, 11:25:33 PMHas anyone here had any personal experiences with trans people and has anyone, or someone they know, been personally affected by any of these issues being raised here?
when I entered AA there was a lovely lady who happened to be trans. I possibly would not have got sober without her help
Quote from: theskull1 on April 16, 2024, 03:09:41 PMYou know fine rightly they are/they have been issues J70 and in no way am I tarring the 'whole group' when I say that ::)
Every area of life ends up getting gamed/corrupted by opportunists (e.g. health systems, religion, relationships, benefits, tax , sick leave) so there's nothing particular surprising that it happens in this space as well. The gaslighting of common sense is a common theme.
I guess I don't pay as much attention to this issue as you do.
Any examples?
Google or X is your friend
It was heartening to read some actual experiences and empathy.
I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak. There certainly are issues that need to be worked through, but so many of the so called issues are concocted / over egged.
There's all this stuff about biological males in women spaces being a danger etc. Most trans people use non-gendered/disabled toilets afaik due to being self conscious and the same crowd oppose that too with bad faith arguments about cost when it just means adding a sign to a disabled toilet.
There's also literally nothing stopping men from entering women's toilets. Someone who wants to sexually assault women or worse doesn't need to become trans to do that. The danger women most face are from men in general and especially those they know.
There's reasonable ways to sort out most of these issues sensitively, but the witch hunt against trans people isn't the way to deal with them. The IRFU banned all trans females from playing women's rugby, which affected all of two people as far as I know. That sends a terrible message to trans people. Size difference is an issue and that should be applied across all grades. Having a set of guidelines, for trans women and for children etc. (as is done in NZ) would have been the sensible thing to do, rather than bowing to a mob.
I'm not trans and it's not something I can relate to, but I am perturbed by how such a large group of people seem obsessed with the issue, which is whipping up terrible hate against a tiny minority of society who are some of the most vulnerable people. And seriously, our country and world has much more pressing issues and inequalities which affects everyone and not just a percentage of a percent .
Sexuality, gender and so much else about humans varies wildly. Just look across the world, now and historically.
All of this.
Great post.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on April 16, 2024, 11:42:26 PMI do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.
Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on April 16, 2024, 11:42:26 PMIt was heartening to read some actual experiences and empathy.
I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak. There certainly are issues that need to be worked through, but so many of the so called issues are concocted / over egged.
There's all this stuff about biological males in women spaces being a danger etc. Most trans people use non-gendered/disabled toilets afaik due to being self conscious and the same crowd oppose that too with bad faith arguments about cost when it just means adding a sign to a disabled toilet.
There's also literally nothing stopping men from entering women's toilets. Someone who wants to sexually assault women or worse doesn't need to become trans to do that. The danger women most face are from men in general and especially those they know.
There's reasonable ways to sort out most of these issues sensitively, but the witch hunt against trans people isn't the way to deal with them. The IRFU banned all trans females from playing women's rugby, which affected all of two people as far as I know. That sends a terrible message to trans people. Size difference is an issue and that should be applied across all grades. Having a set of guidelines, for trans women and for children etc. (as is done in NZ) would have been the sensible thing to do, rather than bowing to a mob.
I'm not trans and it's not something I can relate to, but I am perturbed by how such a large group of people seem obsessed with the issue, which is whipping up terrible hate against a tiny minority of society who are some of the most vulnerable people. And seriously, our country and world has much more pressing issues and inequalities which affects everyone and not just a percentage of a percent .
Sexuality, gender and so much else about humans varies wildly. Just look across the world, now and historically.
great post
If you follow Linehan and the likes, the debate is much wider than transgender rights and womens' rights being trampled on tho, its also about young people (some highly vulnerable) transitioning at immature ages, unnecessary surgeries, puberty blockers. Some dangerous stuff becoming orthodoxy.
Wanting to discuss it in a reasonable manner is not anti anything either. That has been a huge part of the problem, debate being shut down, people being black balled & vilified for daring to question anything.
Quote from: bennydorano on April 17, 2024, 09:38:22 AMIf you follow Linehan and the likes, the debate is much wider than transgender rights and womens' rights being trampled on tho, its also about young people (some highly vulnerable) transitioning at immature ages, unnecessary surgeries, puberty blockers. Some dangerous stuff becoming orthodoxy.
Wanting to discuss it in a reasonable manner is not anti anything either. That has been a huge part of the problem, debate being shut down, people being black balled & vilified for daring to question anything.
I think most people start of in a reasonable manner but it escalates quickly by both sides. The trying to use extreme scenarios to justify not extending some rights to trans people as mentioned above is bad faith arguments.This just as much as the vilification of people is the issue. It's one of those topics that has fallen into the left/ right identification scale. And as we've seen on here those arguments always end up messy.
I would see myself slightly left of middle. But with mixed viewpoints on the trans issue. It's not an easy subject to navigate.
yeah exactly this.
Quote from: bennydorano on April 17, 2024, 09:38:22 AMIf you follow Linehan and the likes, the debate is much wider than transgender rights and womens' rights being trampled on tho, its also about young people (some highly vulnerable) transitioning at immature ages, unnecessary surgeries, puberty blockers. Some dangerous stuff becoming orthodoxy.
Wanting to discuss it in a reasonable manner is not anti anything either. That has been a huge part of the problem, debate being shut down, people being black balled & vilified for daring to question anything.
fully agree with that. There is room for proper discussion on the matter. Linehan doesnt do that though, or if he does it gets lost amongst his nonsense
For your first sentence I agree that there should be a minimum age but having listened to some trans people on the topic, they would say if you wait until youre 18 then some male puberty changes have happened and it is too late by then. Thats them speaking form their own experiences
Calling trans women perverts in dresses does not help matters whatsoever
The problem with that argument is that it assumes "trans rights" are being infringed upon in the first place and that a lot of these "rights" are based on the statement that "trans women are women" and that refusal to blindly accept that makes someone transphobic. Perhaps not insignificantly, most people shouting "trans women are women" tend to be men. Thanks for your input Daniel Radcliffe. This is even more ridiculous when you see someone like Starmer refuse to answer the question "what is a woman?"
Given we're a GAA discussion board, the main focus here is around sport. Saying trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category. Lia Thomas, for example, winning NCAA titles competing as a woman denied women who haven't gone through male puberty the chance to be a national champion. That is simple, irrefutable fact. That statement does not deprive her of her rights to live her life whatever way she so chooses.
As far as the discussion around medicating kids with puberty blockers etc, anyone who genuinely argues in favour needs their head examined, as evidenced by the conclusions of the Cass report. Language around "the trans movement" is unhelpful as it's not as if there's some monolithic entity out there speaking for everyone, even if some organisations or individuals purport to. Hello Owen f**king Jones. However, there are undeniably organisations and individuals who appear to have a specific agenda when it comes to trans issues, e.g. the pushing of medically questionable practices such as "tucking" or advocating for parents of minors not to be informed of medical procedures they are undergoing. There was an infamous Vice article a few years ago with the title "How to go down on a trans woman" that interviewed several prominent trans "sexperts". It was littered with complete nonsense that in many cases was decried as medically unsafe. Calling out crap like this is, again, neither transphobic nor a denial of rights.
Quote from: gallsman on April 17, 2024, 10:44:08 AMThe problem with that argument is that it assumes "trans rights" are being infringed upon in the first place and that a lot of these "rights" are based on the statement that "trans women are women" and that refusal to blindly accept that makes someone transphobic. Perhaps not insignificantly, most people shouting "trans women are women" tend to be men. Thanks for your input Daniel Radcliffe. This is even more ridiculous when you see someone like Starmer refuse to answer the question "what is a woman?"
Given we're a GAA discussion board, the main focus here is around sport. Saying trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category. Lia Thomas, for example, winning NCAA titles competing as a woman denied women who haven't gone through male puberty the chance to be a national champion. That is simple, irrefutable fact. That statement does not deprive her of her rights to live her life whatever way she so chooses.
As far as the discussion around medicating kids with puberty blockers etc, anyone who genuinely argues in favour needs their head examined, as evidenced by the conclusions of the Cass report. Language around "the trans movement" is unhelpful as it's not as if there's some monolithic entity out there speaking for everyone, even if some organisations or individuals purport to. Hello Owen f**king Jones. However, there are undeniably organisations and individuals who appear to have a specific agenda when it comes to trans issues, e.g. the pushing of medically questionable practices such as "tucking" or advocating for parents of minors not to be informed of medical procedures they are undergoing. There was an infamous Vice article a few years ago with the title "How to go down on a trans woman" that interviewed several prominent trans "sexperts". It was littered with complete nonsense that in many cases was decried as medically unsafe. Calling out crap like this is, again, neither transphobic nor a denial of rights.
Probably my take on it as well.
I've no issue with "trans rights" or trans people in general but there are instances when someones "rights" impinges on another persons "rights" especially in the sporting context.
At times is just doesn't look right irrespective of testerone levels etc etc.
A minor correction to my last post. The article is titled "How to Eat Out a Non-Op Trans woman".
Indeed.
Its 99.99% of the populations take JC.
Quote from: theskull1 on April 17, 2024, 12:14:00 PMIts 99.99% of the populations take JC.
Yet those who have a different take are the loudest and most militant.
Quote from: theskull1 on April 17, 2024, 12:14:00 PMIts 99.99% of the populations take JC.
Well see that public defender person in the US or Sam Smith, fair play to them, that doesn't bother me one iota but they should not be called freaks and people who use that term are very insecure in their own sexuality I find.
;)
Quote from: johnnycool on April 17, 2024, 02:00:46 PMQuote from: theskull1 on April 17, 2024, 12:14:00 PMIts 99.99% of the populations take JC.
Well see that public defender person in the US or Sam Smith, fair play to them, that doesn't bother me one iota but they should not be called freaks and people who use that term are very insecure in their own sexuality I find.
;)
You lost the argument with the stupid wink.
Quote from: Tones on April 17, 2024, 02:06:19 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 17, 2024, 02:00:46 PMQuote from: theskull1 on April 17, 2024, 12:14:00 PMIts 99.99% of the populations take JC.
Well see that public defender person in the US or Sam Smith, fair play to them, that doesn't bother me one iota but they should not be called freaks and people who use that term are very insecure in their own sexuality I find.
;)
You lost the argument with the stupid wink.
I'll not sleep tonight now!
Darn.
Gives a chill tonight maybe get a wee hot water bottle might help. Well done on the rational debate though.
Quote from: gallsman on April 17, 2024, 10:44:08 AMtrans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.
Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.
The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.
Quote from: Main Street on April 16, 2024, 11:49:21 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 16, 2024, 11:42:26 PMI do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.
Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.
Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.
It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.
Rowling is a woman and a victim of domestic abuse. Of course she has a connection when her rights and those of her fellow women are being infringed upon.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on April 17, 2024, 05:38:42 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 17, 2024, 10:44:08 AMtrans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.
Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.
The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.
Quote from: Main Street on April 16, 2024, 11:49:21 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 16, 2024, 11:42:26 PMI do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.
Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.
Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.
It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.
You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 17, 2024, 10:42:45 AMCalling trans women perverts in dresses does not help matters whatsoever
It's a blatant bigoted statement.
Quote from: gallsman on April 17, 2024, 05:45:11 PMRowling is a woman and a victim of domestic abuse. Of course she has a connection when her rights and those of her fellow women are being infringed upon.
Rowling was not abused by a trans person. What rights of Rowling's are being infringed upon?
Quote from: Main Street on April 17, 2024, 10:13:14 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 17, 2024, 05:38:42 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 17, 2024, 10:44:08 AMtrans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.
Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.
The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.
Quote from: Main Street on April 16, 2024, 11:49:21 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 16, 2024, 11:42:26 PMI do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.
Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.
Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.
It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.
You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.
I've long since tried to avoid them. They both clearly have issues and have gone very much down the deep end. A quick cursory glance at Linehan's wikipedia tells me that he has variously harrassed trans people, set up fake profiles to pose as trans people, described people who support trans rights as 'groomers', tried to smear several people with false associations. These are not the actions of someone who is acting reasonably, and especially so given how his life has imploded.
And it's not disingenuous to make those comparisons. Like those other people it's disingenuous on their part to claim they are concerned about trans people. There's also strong cross over in Ireland between all these groups.
If you take a very generous interpretation of their belief that trans people just have mental issues etc., how does constantly using such strong and loaded rhetoric help. How does dehumanising, insulting and invalidating trans people help trans people?
I haven't seen any stats which show a rising trend of violence by trans people. But I do know that trans people are much more likely to suffer violence and violence against trans people has been increasing.
It's mind boggling that there's so many very real and pressing issues facing Ireland and the world and so many have been deliberately distracted by the right wing with such a micro issue that affects almost no-one...
Quote from: HokeyPokey on April 18, 2024, 12:37:45 AMQuote from: gallsman on April 17, 2024, 05:45:11 PMRowling is a woman and a victim of domestic abuse. Of course she has a connection when her rights and those of her fellow women are being infringed upon.
Rowling was not abused by a trans person. What rights of Rowling's are being infringed upon?
I am wondering the same thing. The fact she was abused has nothing to do with trans people
She feels that the personal safety of women is being threatened in womens spaces I think is her argument.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on April 18, 2024, 01:26:48 AMQuote from: Main Street on April 17, 2024, 10:13:14 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 17, 2024, 05:38:42 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 17, 2024, 10:44:08 AMtrans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.
Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.
The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.
Quote from: Main Street on April 16, 2024, 11:49:21 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 16, 2024, 11:42:26 PMI do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.
Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.
Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.
It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.
You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.
I've long since tried to avoid them. They both clearly have issues and have gone very much down the deep end. A quick cursory glance at Linehan's wikipedia tells me that he has variously harrassed trans people, set up fake profiles to pose as trans people, described people who support trans rights as 'groomers', tried to smear several people with false associations. These are not the actions of someone who is acting reasonably, and especially so given how his life has imploded.
And it's not disingenuous to make those comparisons. Like those other people it's disingenuous on their part to claim they are concerned about trans people. There's also strong cross over in Ireland between all these groups.
If you take a very generous interpretation of their belief that trans people just have mental issues etc., how does constantly using such strong and loaded rhetoric help. How does dehumanising, insulting and invalidating trans people help trans people?
I haven't seen any stats which show a rising trend of violence by trans people. But I do know that trans people are much more likely to suffer violence and violence against trans people has been increasing.
It's mind boggling that there's so many very real and pressing issues facing Ireland and the world and so many have been deliberately distracted by the right wing with such a micro issue that affects almost no-one...
Yet you put a long post in place prior to that.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 18, 2024, 09:28:27 AMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 18, 2024, 01:26:48 AMQuote from: Main Street on April 17, 2024, 10:13:14 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 17, 2024, 05:38:42 PMQuote from: gallsman on April 17, 2024, 10:44:08 AMtrans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.
Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.
The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.
Quote from: Main Street on April 16, 2024, 11:49:21 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 16, 2024, 11:42:26 PMI do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.
Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.
Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.
It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.
You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.
I've long since tried to avoid them. They both clearly have issues and have gone very much down the deep end. A quick cursory glance at Linehan's wikipedia tells me that he has variously harrassed trans people, set up fake profiles to pose as trans people, described people who support trans rights as 'groomers', tried to smear several people with false associations. These are not the actions of someone who is acting reasonably, and especially so given how his life has imploded.
And it's not disingenuous to make those comparisons. Like those other people it's disingenuous on their part to claim they are concerned about trans people. There's also strong cross over in Ireland between all these groups.
If you take a very generous interpretation of their belief that trans people just have mental issues etc., how does constantly using such strong and loaded rhetoric help. How does dehumanising, insulting and invalidating trans people help trans people?
I haven't seen any stats which show a rising trend of violence by trans people. But I do know that trans people are much more likely to suffer violence and violence against trans people has been increasing.
It's mind boggling that there's so many very real and pressing issues facing Ireland and the world and so many have been deliberately distracted by the right wing with such a micro issue that affects almost no-one...
Yet you put a long post in place prior to that.
How does that undermine my argument?
I'm arguing this whole debate has essentially been concocted and I'm trying to illustrate that. I have empathy for this tiny, most vulnerable minority of society who are mercilessly being demonised and targeted. Yes, there are issues, like anything, and like anything, they should be worked through carefully by professionals and those affected, not by angry and unreasonable people on twitter.
Society in general should be focusing its energy on the actual pressing issues, that affect everyone, like housing, health, climate change, changing demographics, the erosion of social cohesion, and so many other issues which should take priority.
I'd be interested in why you care about this issue personally, how it affects you or yours, and why it takes priority over any of the above issues for you?